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Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) 2 months, 29 days ago

Poll: Batman Battle of the Month VOTING: Batwoman vs. Moon Knight (230 votes)

Batwoman 30%
Moon Knight 64%
Too close to call 5%

Moon Knight Month is nearing its end and it's time for Marvel's anti-hero to duke it out with his final opponent! He's bested Green Arrow and Ra's al Ghul, but Black Canary was able to keep him down for the count. Now we want you to think about how he'll perform against Kate Kane!

Both characters are covered in impressive armor, armed with cool gear, and most definitely know how to beat up their enemies, but what happens when these two come face-to-face? Which badass hero will emerge as the winner and which one will be left on the floor and in a world of hurt? Well, you can help determine that verdict!

You have until Friday morning (ET) to research, leap into the debate and cast your vote. This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Give it some proper thought and then go vote for a winner! Or, maybe you think this one has the potential go either way and should be declared as too close to call? Think it through and then let us know your thoughts on this match, Viners!

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep for either side).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 20 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover in the location (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, the sewer, etc.
  • Both characters have their current gear. No vehicles, obviously.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • Viner Arguments for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Want to continue celebrating Moon Knight? We've posted his Best Covers, Best Battles, and his Must Read Stories. Last but most definitely not least, don't forget to vote for our next Character of the Month!!!

#1 Posted by BeaconofStrength (5480 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight.

I'll probably put up why I choose him, later.

Online
#2 Posted by laflux (15984 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33466 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, curveball. I think this is a good excuse to reread Batwoman: Elegy

#4 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21872 posts) - - Show Bio

She ties him to a tree, like she did with Bane, FTW.

#5 Posted by Catsnlynne (1032 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight.

#6 Posted by Dernman (15105 posts) - - Show Bio

One the Moon Knight finally wins.

#7 Edited by AmazingSpiderman15 (1146 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by dondave (37486 posts) - - Show Bio

@allstarsuperman

She ties him to a tree, like she did with Bane, FTW.

Arguement of the Week right here

#9 Edited by Saren (25681 posts) - - Show Bio

Gear-wise Moon Knight is probably completely screwed; he's packing darts and a flechette gun, she's packing python-wire that Bane couldn't break and tranq darts designed to knock out elephants. Moon Knight's physique matches up to neither Bane nor elephants, so there's always the possibility that getting tagged even once by one of her weapons finishes him then and there. Her lower jaw is the only part of her that's really vulnerable to his projectiles, because her suit is completely bullet-proof:

That is, unless his current weapons are carbonadium, and I don't recall them being so but maybe someone knows better.

At close combat, I'd say Moon Knight is good enough to take a 7/10, maybe even 8/10 majority, but if he doesn't make it close combat soon enough Kate is packing something like a dozen different one hit KO devices on her. She's got that tiny dart built from alien tech that can pretty much do whatever it wants, it could probably solo Spector by itself if he lets it go that far.

Victory probably depends on what kind of fight it becomes.

Moderator
#10 Edited by Knightsofdarkness2 (2333 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight wins since he's really good at H2H combat since Spector is a former heavyweight boxing champion who underwent intense training as a commando, intelligence operative and mercenary. He is skilled in armed and unarmed combat with training in Boxing, Judo, Savate and Kung Fu; his knowledge is extensive enough that it has been shown that he can use pressure points against his opponents, striking nerve clusters to stun or even instantly incapacitate. On more than one occasion without powers. He has fought the Punisher to a stand still and he's an incredible marksman and has been trained at almost every weapon imaginable.

#11 Posted by SupBatz (1735 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Kate takes the match. She doesn't get nearly enough credit for just how capable she is as a fighter. She's often just written off for:
a.) Being an extension of the Bat-Family, and therefore decried as a weaker version of Batman
b.) Being a relatively new character, which some translate as lacking in meaningful development or combative ability

Starting with the basics, she has the drive. Kidnapped by terrorists who killed her mother and (presumably) her sister, Kate grew up with a major need to help people and fight injustice - one comparable to the crime that drove Batman's training. She trained throughout most of her adolescence at West Point Military Academy, giving her combative, weapons, and discipline training. And her father, Black Ops operative and Colonel Jacob Kane, most likely had a huge impact on her upbringing. Then we have Kate's rigorous training upon being discharged from West Point. Two years (if I remember correctly) of brutal Black Ops missions around the world, facing some of the most disgusting and despicable criminals in the world.

As Batwoman, Kate has access to state-of-the-art weaponry - both from her own family fortune and from technologies provided by the DEO during her stint with them. That combined with her already impressive combative abilities makes her a powerful force to be reckoned with.

She's also proven herself capable of taking down massively stronger opponents (Bane, Killer Croc), the paranormal (the Weeping Woman, Bloody Mary), giant monsters and Greek deities (Medusa and her monster army), magic users (Maro, Falchion), and some pretty depraved and disturbing psychopaths (Alice and the Religion of Crime, Cutter). Additionally, Batwoman has held her own against Batman in a fight, and displayed a variety of skills that parallel Bruce's own abilities.

Moon Knight may take the win in some encounters, but I truly think that Kate can give him a run for his money.

#12 Edited by BeaconofStrength (5480 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: While I'm not positive, I'm pretty sure that Moon Knight's last mentioned material, for his darts was adamantium.

Online
#13 Posted by HushoftheWind (996 posts) - - Show Bio

I put them about even when it comes to H2H, but gear is another story. Batwoman usually CARRIES better gear with her, than what Moon Knight normally carries iirc.

#14 Posted by Joygirl (19976 posts) - - Show Bio

I am of the belief that Batwoman can take a decisive majority here. Her technology is too advanced, her suit is too durable. While Moon Knight has the pain tolerance going for him, Kate has just as much drive and isn't far outskilled either. She can hold her own for long enough in hand-to-hand (Marc's best bet) to gain an advantage with one of her DEA gadgets.

#15 Posted by Owie (3741 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: A couple of questions: how did she beat Bane? Was it through her skills, or using the gear you mentioned? I assume she had to beat him before managing to tie him to a tree. Also, it's a little hard to understand what's going on in that tracking device scan--is Croc somehow magically pulling out phantasms of her past enemies, and then she's using the device to take them all down through their different weaknesses or something?

Her suit does seem pretty tough to penetrate. I don't know what his current darts are made of. Still, he is an accurate enough marksman to hit her in the lower face if needed, and considering that the crescents have cut through things like guns before, one dart in the face could be lethal. Not that he'd necessarily go for that option, but it would be a possibility.

#16 Posted by Alak (926 posts) - - Show Bio

Batwoman due to better tech and armor.

#17 Posted by patrat18 (9772 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn Batwoman is a beast. I didn't even know about that alien dart.

#18 Edited by dondave (37486 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by jashro44 (21864 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, curveball. I think this is a good excuse to reread Batwoman: Elegy

Agreed. I was 100% sure it was gonna be bane....I was wrong. I'll have to wait and see what bat woman can do. From what I have seen her tech is pretty impressive.

#20 Posted by reikai (4239 posts) - - Show Bio

@alak: I'm not seeing that. Spector has his tech, weapons and armor specially designed. Is see no basis for either one to be more advanced than the other. The only thing I can see is differences in the way it is used.

I also know Spector carries more lethal options with him regularly. His crescent darts can cut deep, his truncheon can generate electric shocks, and he does carry a katana that can most definitely kill. His crescent guns have penetrated body armor before and a number of them can act as bola to capture and trap targets

While certainly, Spector doesn't have strength like Bane. But neither does Batgirl. And it's not as if Spector hasn't fought metahuman figures before with strength comparable to, and greater than, Bane's. He did have to tangle with Venom.

Spector also has to keep options with him for dealing with such figures.

#21 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

MK handily.

#22 Posted by Owie (3741 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks...and for others who might be looking for info on her, I also found them, and some other pretty impressive stuff, on her solid respect thread:

http://www.comicvine.com/batwoman/4005-9052/forums/new-52-batwoman-respect-1522439/

Kate seems to be a pretty no-holds-barred fighter; in the scans I looked at, she did a lot of knee-breaking, ripped a guy's metal arm hook out of his body, and so on. Moon Knight doesn't hold much of a "brutality" advantage over her.

She also has some good prep skills, as seen in her fight with Batman, although she's not going to get to use that here.

She does have great tech. In addition to what was previously mentioned, she's got a taser glove that can zap people by touch; infrared eyepieces; has flashbangs at least at some points, and also anti-flashbang gear in her cowl.

My impression so far is that Moon Knight has a strength and pain resistance advantage, and better up-close weapons, but they're both pretty agile and skilled, and she has more variety in her gear (although MK does also have explosive and gas crescents and other tech occasionally as well), and she definitely uses the gear to her advantage in combat. It's too bad the current MK series hasn't gone on longer so we could get a better sense of what he uses these days. Since they start 20' apart, I could see this going either way at the moment. I'm holding off on deciding until later.

#23 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12205 posts) - - Show Bio

Tech wise, Kate. Combat wise, Marc. Something tells me Marc won't make it to close to Kate and when he does, despite his damage soak and pain tolerance, he will not be in a condition to fight her if he hasn't already hit her with his own projectiles.

#24 Posted by Experio (16062 posts) - - Show Bio

Moonknight

#25 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21872 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay Moonknight is just winning on popularity now.

#26 Posted by CyberWarrior (1538 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21872 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by Teerack (6372 posts) - - Show Bio

Spector by a landslide. His resources blow hers out of the water and he has a LOT more experience then her. Don't get me wrong tho Batwoman is pretty bad ass and could beat up a lot of people, but she's just not on Mark's level yet.

#29 Posted by AmazingWebHead (2512 posts) - - Show Bio

I never really liked Batwoman (because do we really need another Bat-person?) so I'm going with Moon Knight

#30 Posted by Fallschirmjager (17557 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane was on venom, when he got restrained btw.

#31 Posted by CyberWarrior (1538 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

Spector by a landslide. His resources blow hers out of the water and he has a LOT more experience then her. Don't get me wrong tho Batwoman is pretty bad ass and could beat up a lot of people, but she's just not on Mark's level yet.

I'd recommend reading Saren's post about Kane's standard gear.

Staff
#33 Posted by Teerack (6372 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Are you kidding? I know what her gear is like and it doesn't compare to Mark Spector being a MILLIONAIRE with an armory of custom high tech weapons and magical artifacts built up over a long career of crime fighting and being crazy.

#34 Posted by XImpossibruX (5174 posts) - - Show Bio

Moon Knight

#35 Posted by godzilla44 (3241 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't voted yet and at first I was thinking MK had this but now I don't know who to vote because of the scans posted so far.

#36 Posted by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio
@teerack said:

@k4tzm4n: Are you kidding? I know what her gear is like and it doesn't compare to Mark Spector being a MILLIONAIRE with an armory of custom high tech weapons and magical artifacts built up over a long career of crime fighting and being crazy.

I recommend reading the rules before commenting. Just like every other battle, this is characters with their standard gear. Marc's standard gear is the current armor, throwing crescents, and his truncheon which has a few additional functions.

Staff
#37 Posted by Teerack (6372 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:
@teerack said:

@k4tzm4n: Are you kidding? I know what her gear is like and it doesn't compare to Mark Spector being a MILLIONAIRE with an armory of custom high tech weapons and magical artifacts built up over a long career of crime fighting and being crazy.

I recommend reading the rules before commenting. Just like every other battle, this is characters with their standard gear. Marc's standard gear is the current armor, throwing crescents, and his truncheon which has a few additional functions.

There hasn't been enough of the current moon knight to know what is considered standard for his current suit. He has used different equipment in every issue so far.

#38 Edited by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio
@teerack said:

@k4tzm4n said:
@teerack said:

@k4tzm4n: Are you kidding? I know what her gear is like and it doesn't compare to Mark Spector being a MILLIONAIRE with an armory of custom high tech weapons and magical artifacts built up over a long career of crime fighting and being crazy.

I recommend reading the rules before commenting. Just like every other battle, this is characters with their standard gear. Marc's standard gear is the current armor, throwing crescents, and his truncheon which has a few additional functions.

There hasn't been enough of the current moon knight to know what is considered standard for his current suit. He has used different equipment in every issue so far.

And, when he's in the partially carbonadium covered armor, the listed items is what he has used -- and not to mention has a lengthy history of using -- so we're obviously granting him those weapons in a random encounter fight.

Staff
#39 Posted by Teerack (6372 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:
@teerack said:

@k4tzm4n said:
@teerack said:

@k4tzm4n: Are you kidding? I know what her gear is like and it doesn't compare to Mark Spector being a MILLIONAIRE with an armory of custom high tech weapons and magical artifacts built up over a long career of crime fighting and being crazy.

I recommend reading the rules before commenting. Just like every other battle, this is characters with their standard gear. Marc's standard gear is the current armor, throwing crescents, and his truncheon which has a few additional functions.

There hasn't been enough of the current moon knight to know what is considered standard for his current suit. He has used different equipment in every issue so far.

And, when he's in the partially carbonadium covered armor, the listed items is what he has used -- and not to mention has a lengthy history of using -- so we're obviously granting him those weapons in this fight.

Well in that case Kane has the better gear in the fight. I still think Spector is the better more experienced fighter and has won lots of fights where he's been out gunned. I just don't see Kane as the same level of fighter as Spector, and I know just how strong she is. Based off her last encounter with Batgirl she could probably stomp Barbra, but I just don't think she's the better fighter here.

#40 Edited by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: That's fine, just wanted to help clarify the gear situation for you.

Staff
#41 Posted by Jayc1324 (12299 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Moon Knight would win but all of the arguments I'm seeing changed my mind. As much as I dislike her, I voted for batwoman.

#42 Posted by Jayc1324 (12299 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Moon Knight would win but all of the arguments I'm seeing changed my mind. As much as I dislike her, I voted for batwoman.

#43 Posted by RedX17 (75 posts) - - Show Bio

I love both far too much to make a choice, so I choose to close to call.

#44 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a good match-up indeed. This battle can go either way depending on the way the batte goes.

Kate has a chance of winning this if she keeps some distance away from Marc since she has some gadgets up her sleeve that can help her in long range. She pretty much has tech and equipment that gives her big advantage over Spector since she has a python-wire which is impossible for Marc to break since even Bane wasn't able to pull off such a thing. And in a defensive way she has an almost invulnurable suit that can't be pierced by anything Marc is able to throw at her and the only clean and undefenced spot is her chin(which isn't much).

On the other hand if this battle quickly comes into a close distance battle and everything gets decided in a normal hand to hand battle then Marc will take the edge in such a scenario. First of all he is more skilled then she is,he can attack with a bigger force and can do more damage to her that way but in the same time if he doesn't finish her off really fast then he is yet again doomed because she has plenty of one hit KO devices.

So in conclusion, Kate should take this 7/10.

#45 Posted by Black_Arrow (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Edited by k4tzm4n (44235 posts) - - Show Bio

Batwoman's reaction to the poll:

Staff
#47 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3478 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n:

And, when he's in the partially carbonadium covered armor, the listed items is what he has used -- and not to mention has a lengthy history of using -- so we're obviously granting him those weapons in a random encounter fight.

Which makes little sense to me, so I'll ask the following questions about this piece of his gear:

  1. Isn't Carbonadium extremely poisonous? Toxic enough to wound or kill even people with healing factors?
  2. If Moon Knight no longer has his mystically sourced powers, then how is he not riddled with cancer or some other terminal ailment(s) just by wearing it?
  3. Did he somehow discover where Wolverine hid the Carbonadium Synthesizer and is keeping it's existence and the fact that it's now in his custody a closely guarded secret?
  4. If not, then isn't his own body armor an inevitable death sentence, regardless of what Batwoman does to him?
#48 Edited by jashro44 (21864 posts) - - Show Bio

Really sad this is turning into another one of those "lets vote for the more well known character and not provide reasoning" thread. You guys could at least try and provide an argument for moon knight....

EDIT: Just noticed Reikai's comment so I guess there is an argument for moon knight here at least. Still would be nice if the other 70% said something rather than just blindly vote....

#49 Posted by MonsterStomp (18062 posts) - - Show Bio

What the hell is up with Bane recently? He goes from stomping Batman to losing to Batwoman...

#50 Posted by Owie (3741 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Really sad this is turning into another one of those "lets vote for the more well known character and not provide reasoning" thread. You guys could at least try and provide an argument for moon knight....

EDIT: Just noticed Reikai's comment so I guess there is an argument for moon knight here at least. Still would be nice if the other 70% said something rather than just blindly vote....

I think a lot of it is people who just don't believe a girl could beat a guy. Granted that Canary won, but there was a lot of commenting in that thread that gave off the same "how is this girl going to beat a man" vibe. Not that everyone who thinks Spector will win is wrong; I'm leaning that way myself and will probably make an argument tomorrow. But it's a trend I see in a lot of votes against characters like Black Widow or Elektra as well.

@k4tzm4n:

And, when he's in the partially carbonadium covered armor, the listed items is what he has used -- and not to mention has a lengthy history of using -- so we're obviously granting him those weapons in a random encounter fight.

Which makes little sense to me, so I'll ask the following questions about this piece of his gear:

  1. Isn't Carbonadium extremely poisonous? Toxic enough to wound or kill even people with healing factors?
  2. If Moon Knight no longer has his mystically sourced powers, then how is he not riddled with cancer or some other terminal ailment(s) just by wearing it?
  3. Did he somehow discover where Wolverine hid the Carbonadium Synthesizer and is keeping it's existence and the fact that it's now in his custody a closely guarded secret?
  4. If not, then isn't his own body armor an inevitable death sentence, regardless of what Batwoman does to him?

The answer is "comics."