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Posted by k4tzm4n (34954 posts) - - Show Bio

No matter who's left standing in the end, it's safe to say we can all agree this would be a stellar fight. Nightwing's more graceful, yet Moon Knight's more vicious. If these two clashed, there's no disputing it would be a battle worthy of taking up an entire comic. The fight was announced Monday and the community has had all week to speculate, cast their vote and debate with their fellow Viners about this street level brawl. The poll was incredibly close, but in the end, the first Robin, Dick Grayson, took a very narrow lead over the fist of Khonshu.

Nightwing took 48% of the votes while Moon Knight earned 46% (told ya it was a very narrow lead!). 6% understandably thought this melee has the potential to go either way and declared it as simply too close to call. After thinking it through for quite some time, I've gotta side with "too close to call" as well. The two are comparable in quite a few categories and, while each do have their own advantages, they don't totally blow their opponent out of the water in those elements, either.

Moon Knight has staggeringly impressive pain tolerance, but as proven with his fight against a Talon, Grayson's spirit and drive can keep him in a fight even when he's suffering major damage. The Marvel hero has the ability to withstand a great amount of injuries, but DC's character won't throw in the towel if he suffers a stab or two. Meanwhile, Grayson undeniably has the agility edge, but Spector's hardly a slouch in that category. The guy has dodged Punisher's gunfire, regularly danced around numerous gunmen at the last second and has the reflexes required to catch crossbows. He may not be as swift as the former Robin, but he's certainly not a snail compared to him, either.

While it's fair to give Nightwing the edge in technique, it's important not to sell Marc short on this one. A lot of people think he's just a dude who likes to take a punch and then sloppily throw one back, but that couldn't be further from the truth. In VENGEANCE OF MOON KNIGHT, he proved he has no problem deploying pressure point attacks, and he's had no issue going strike for strike with Frank Castle in the past. Sure, he may be brutal quite often (one must be when fighting Werewolf by Night, yes?), but that certainly doesn't mean he's sloppy. Just like Nightwing, he's held his own against a variety of superhuman foes, too (Hobgoblin, for example). Like previously said, it's fair to say Grayson has the edge here, but Moon Knight's not eating his dust and his pain tolerance means he can indeed afford to take some extra hits as well.

As for the gear: Nightwing has more variety yet Moon Knight's is simple and effective. It's unlikely for Grayson to use sonics in a situation like this, but eventually using electric attacks are absolutely a possibility. However, Moon Knight's attacks dish out big blunt force trauma (proven he can also effective use truncheons for ricochet attacks), stabbing/slashing with his spiked knuckles and he has plenty of crescent daggers. Despite his very impressive accuracy with the daggers, this is countered by Grayson's remarkable agility. This, however, doesn't render the weapons useless because Marc has no gripe using them as melee weapons, too (Bushman certainly remembers this).

Both are very skilled, very tough and very agile. While each hold edges in different categories, none of the edges are by a significant amount and and, at least in my eyes, don't warrant a clear victory for a large majority. A great case can be made for either side taking a slight edge -- depending on which categories you value -- but for me, I think it's fair to say either one truly has the ability to take this after a bloody and quite awesome fight. Here's to hoping this will one day happen in a crossover.

Oh, and one more thing: the debate had quite a few people talking about Moon Knight's powers, but his stats haven't been impacted by the moon for quite some time now.

Viner Argument of the Week for Nightwing is by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek

"I'll cover skill first. While Moon Knight has the advantages of his immense pain tolerance, excessive brutal force, and strength. However, Nightwing has faced opponents who have been looking for the kill plenty of times in his career. Not only is Grayson agile enough to dodge Spector's hits, but he also has the superior hand-to-hand combat prowess here thanks to his rigorous training under the one and only Batman. He's beaten more notable opponents who have also used brutal force, such as Red Hood, and came on top as the victor. In close quarters, I see Moon Knight holding his own with his pain tolerance and own formidable skill, but ultimately, that isn't enough against an opponent who is simply better than you in the field, nor is it practical against pressure point attacks. Add onto the fact that Grayson will be tagging Spector a lot more often due to his agility, and Moon Knight is definitely going down, albeit with time, in a martial arts showdown. There's a reason Daredevil trumps Punisher when they get in close. Nightwing edges it in terms of raw skill.

Mentality wise, it's a lot more tricky. While Nightwing is definitely the more observant, intelligent, and cunning one the two, his apprenticeship under the Dark Knight, ironically, also hinders his abilities. Dick won't use lethal force in the slightest, and seeing as Spector can soak up tons of damage, that is a potential game-changer. However, that isn't to say that Nightwing won't be smart enough to think up of non-lethal ways to take Moon Knight out of the fight. On the other hand, Moon Knight uses extreme brutal force, and equipped with his impressive physique (even without his old moon amp he lost), can certainly drop Nightwing. Marc isn't exactly dumb either, and even someone with a gifted mind like Grayson's can fall to Moon Knight's fear factor, like Taskmaster did. Initially, I'm giving the edge to Moon Knight, but if Spector doesn't take out Grayson out quick in the battle, Grayson would have thought of multiple solutions to the fight without killing anyone.

Moving on to gadgets and equipment, Nightwing arsenal is the obvious victor in this in my opinion. From his extremely durable escrima sticks that emit high voltages to various types of pellets and batarangs, Nightwing's gadgets rival that of Batman himself. In Winick'sOutsiders run, Nightwing showed that he had access to Kryptonite, and while that isn't applicable in this fight, it shows just how resourceful he can be. That being said, Grayson doesn't exactly utilize them all the time in fights, and that has and can be his downfall a number of times in comics. Moon Knight, although does not have as many gadgets, tends to use them more often than Grayson does, usually with extremely vicious methods. For example, he has no qualms about mutilating Bushman's face, or cutting his throat with an accurately thrown crescent dart. Again, this can turn the tide of the fight quickly in Spector's favor. Regarding their personal suits, they're about the same as far as I'm concerned. Both have extensive kevlar and are resistant to various types of damages. I don't think anyone edges this. Tie.

It's a tough fight that may or may not last a lengthy time, but Nightwing should be the victor of this fight 6, and arguably even 7 out of 10 times. He has the skill, intellect, and resources needed to overcome Moon Knight's pain tolerance and brutality."

And what does the mighty Comic Vine writer, Corey "Undeadpool" Schroeder, think of this one?

"Gotham...I can't believe I'm still in Gotham...

Marc Spector stared out over the cityscape, sighing and checking his gear, most of which was still intact. Wherever he was, he still felt the whisper of Khonshu in the back of his mind. Guiding. Urging. And now screaming. He dug his fingernails into his scalp as he realized the scream wasn't from his god, but from a nearby alley. He stalked across the rooftops, peering over the edge at a couple being menaced by a group of men. He didn't even hear their words as he descended and, snarling, leaped at one of them, slamming him against one of the alley walls, picking up a trashcan and smashing it against his head. He heard threats, but the voices were far off and his hands moved of their own accord, snatching a knife from one of their hands, jamming it into his thigh. He caught still another punch and kicked backward, bending the man's knee the wrong way. The final one backed off, showing his empty hands. He was saying something, but Moon Knight couldn't hear him as he grabbed his neck and slammed his spiked fist into his face once...twice...an impact at the back of his head had him spin around and look up. There crouched a man in black armor with a red streak across it.

"Hey David Duke! I think he's had enough." he flipped forward onto the ground, twirling his escrima sticks garishly."This doesn't concern you...these men are an offering to Khonshu!""Oh...kay...not familiar with that one. Why don't we have a nice talk about him and let these people-" Nightwing reached toward him only to have his hand batted away and the strange man in the white hood retreating back and readying, "I'd really rather not do this-" but the stranger lunged forward, drawing crescent blades in his hands and slashing across Nightwing's chest. Ah hell, it's Azrael's knife fingers all over again...The boy was no mere street tough as he dodged and caught Moon Knight's every strike, eventually abandoning his failed diplomacy to strike back. He knew his pressure points well, and his sticks sent electric shocks through Spector's body. But what he didn't count on was the tenacity that came from his experience, his madness and his god. No matter what Nightwing did, the man would no stay down. And for every two hits he scored on him, he took one, and his pain tolerance was clearly not as high. The agile Grayson found himself slowing, while his bright white foe was only getting started. Eventually, the pace turned and even escape was impossible as Moon Knight was just as dangerous with his equipment from a distance as he was up close. Nightwing struggled away, but Spector closed the distance, panting and muttering to whatever god he kept invoking. He raised his hand as Grayson collapsed but found it quickly bound by a line and grapple. He whipped his head around to a woman clad in black armor with a shock of red hair flowing from the back of her cowl.

"Alright, white knight! How do you feel about round two?!" she demanded, her eyes flashing with determination and rage."

Want more Batman battles?

Next week will be a usual and Batman-free "Comic Vine Battle of the Week." Batman battles will only take place during the first week of each month and yes, they'll sometimes incorporate the heroes and villains who are close to the Caped Crusader. Check the homepage Monday to see who's brawling in the next Comic Vine Battle of the Week, mon ami. Oh, and do try to have a good weekend!

Want to see a specific fight for this segment? Feel free to suggest more characters in the Official Discussion thread or via Twitter.

#1 Posted by HushoftheWind (1121 posts) - - Show Bio

Im glad Dick came out the victor but i know that he'll be feeling this fight for days.

#2 Posted by AllStarSuperman (23013 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool. I need to go read all the debates.

#3 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

damn... I voted for Marc

#4 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (35174 posts) - - Show Bio

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

#5 Posted by CheeseSticks (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

''Mon ami''. I'm calling it, Gambit is in the next battle.

#6 Edited by k4tzm4n (34954 posts) - - Show Bio

''Mon ami''. I'm calling it, Gambit is in the next battle.

I originally used that as a clue the week before Gambit (vs Nightcrawler) was used, but I liked it so I decided to just stick with it :D

#7 Posted by Dstick88 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing won! never doubt the bat family!

#8 Posted by SadiaVicious (136 posts) - - Show Bio

Fanservice never fail.

#9 Posted by dngn4774 (3517 posts) - - Show Bio

Fanservice never fail.

Nightwing fanbase>Moon Knight fanbase>Red Hood fanbase

I guess that means I'm stuck in the minority group.

#10 Edited by GraniteSoldier (9011 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree Nightwing should win, narrowly. But I can absolutely see why this is too close to call. There were good debates on both sides, which is what matters most.

#11 Posted by k4tzm4n (34954 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree Nightwing should win, narrowly. But I can absolutely see why this is too close to call. There were good debates on both sides, which is what matters most.

Exactly.

#12 Posted by G_leno (1162 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have gone with too close to call but a narrow edge to moon knight.

How about we have a battle with Damian next time its bat family? I miss the violent little git so much.

#13 Edited by k4tzm4n (34954 posts) - - Show Bio

@g_leno said:

I'd have gone with too close to call but a narrow edge to moon knight.

How about we have a battle with Damian next time its bat family? I miss the violent little git so much.

Damian will eventually appear.

#14 Posted by kid Apollo (721 posts) - - Show Bio

i didnt even bother voting for this one. from the start i thought dick would win and it looks like alot of viners agree with me

#15 Posted by daredevil21134 (12705 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing is overrated on this site

I thinks that since Marc is good enough t take Red Head then he's good enough t to take Nightwing

#16 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5697 posts) - - Show Bio

Too close to call. Figured NW would take it off the popular vote

#18 Posted by redhood21 (816 posts) - - Show Bio

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

this!

#19 Posted by nickxfrye (27 posts) - - Show Bio

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

AGREE

#20 Posted by AgentJ07 (128 posts) - - Show Bio

I was too late to vote. I'd have voted for Moonknight.

#22 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20446 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134 said:

Nightwing is overrated on this site

@jonny_anonymous said:

I thinks that since Marc is good enough t take Red Head then he's good enough t to take Nightwing

@redhood21 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

this!

@nickxfrye said:
@jonny_anonymous said:

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

AGREE

Nightwing was able to take on Jason Todd in Battle for the Cowl in his own domain, in a surprise attack, after being electrocuted. Although I think Todd should have won with all those odds against Dick, Nightwing was still doing extremely well. If Moon Knight was ambushed by Red Hood after being electrocuted, he would have gone down no doubt about it.

#23 Edited by OreoAssassin (6301 posts) - - Show Bio

Completely disagree with the results BUT it is a very close call and a great battle!!!

#24 Posted by God_Spawn (38398 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134 said:

Nightwing is overrated on this site

@jonny_anonymous said:

I thinks that since Marc is good enough t take Red Head then he's good enough t to take Nightwing

@redhood21 said:

@jonny_anonymous said:

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

this!

@nickxfrye said:
@jonny_anonymous said:

I thinks that since Marc is good enough to take Red Hood then he's good enough to take Nightwing

AGREE

Nightwing was able to take on Jason Todd in Battle of the Cowl in his own domain, in a surprise attack, after being electrocuted. Although I think Todd should have won with all those odds against Dick, Nightwing was still doing extremely well. If Moon Knight was ambushed by Red Hood after being electrocuted, he would have gone down no doubt about it.

I understand Nightwing had some damage dealt to him, but to be fair to Jason as well, the guy got whaled on by Tim Drake with a crowbar not long before their fight. I still think Nightwing had it worse, but a lot of people seem to forget to mention Jason wasn't at 100% either.

Moderator
#25 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20446 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

Nightwing was able to take on Jason Todd in Battle of the Cowl in his own domain, in a surprise attack, after being electrocuted. Although I think Todd should have won with all those odds against Dick, Nightwing was still doing extremely well. If Moon Knight was ambushed by Red Hood after being electrocuted, he would have gone down no doubt about it.

I understand Nightwing had some damage dealt to him, but to be fair to Jason as well, the guy got whaled on by Tim Drake with a crowbar not long before their fight. I still think Nightwing had it worse, but a lot of people seem to forget to mention Jason wasn't at 100% either.

Oh yeah I definitely agree with you. People also seem to forget Jason was a bit screwed in the head in the events of Battle for the Cowl after Batman died. Still, like you said, Grayson was against greater odds that I don't think Moon Knight would have been able to pull out of.

#26 Edited by Kerrigan (249 posts) - - Show Bio

I know we have to have a winner except in an exact tie, but I'd say 48% to 46% puts this result in "too close to call" territory. Which, as Gregg writes, is probably where it should be.

#27 Posted by Owie (3971 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh man, I don't know how I missed this. Tough battle. Regarding sonics, it is hard to say given how Moon Knight's gear has varied, but at times he has had anti-sonics dampers in his cowl.

#28 Edited by Kerrigan (249 posts) - - Show Bio

Have to say, I'm missing the "guess the next fighters" silhouettes...

#29 Posted by sasquatch888 (374 posts) - - Show Bio

@agentj07 said:

I was too late to vote. I'd have voted for Moonknight.

me too

#30 Posted by IDontLikeBirds (426 posts) - - Show Bio

I could have seen this going either way and been happy with whoever got the votes. I voted Moon Knight though.

#31 Edited by k4tzm4n (34954 posts) - - Show Bio

@kerrigan said:

Have to say, I'm missing the "guess the next fighters" silhouettes...

Thanks. I avoid using them in Batman Battle of the Month since it's technically not the same as the Battle of the Week. And I still plan on using them, but only when I'm 100% certain what the next battle will be. It's not always the case since I'm trying my best to avoid matches we've seen a thousand times before.

#32 Posted by mikep12 (4142 posts) - - Show Bio

I gave this to Nightwing and I don't think Moonknight could take Red Hood

#33 Edited by Jake Fury (19265 posts) - - Show Bio

MK is my favorite Marvel street leveler but I agree that NW would take a slight majority in this fight. It'd be incredibly close with Marc's massive pain threshold and determination going against Grayson's incredible agility and skill advantage.

#34 Posted by Danial79 (2326 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, that was certainly close. Moon Knight may have lost this round, but he always comes back :)

#35 Posted by SuperJedi17 (300 posts) - - Show Bio

I think a batman vs nightwing would be most excellent. It'd be interesting,dick and Bruce are so even,the only deciding factor is their battle tactics/mindsets,Bruce has the power/determination/experience,but Dick's got the natural agility/will/quick thinkinn,which i mean he's quite fast at thinking of escape points,opponent weaknesses,etc,on the fly,while Bruce is no slouch in this category either,he's more of a tactical thinker,dick has an edgein that category IMO,and I honestly think dick's upbeat disposition is actually a good thing,as I think,even if barely,I think it helps him going a bit more than if his was just like Bruce, sad,angry and driven by vengeance,instead of a genuine wanting to help people. I want to see that fight,it's not as one sided as everyone would think it is.

#36 Posted by Supreme_Maj (301 posts) - - Show Bio

To bad Moony lost it's normal he's under rated and beside we are talking about a Guy who has never be beaten by other street leveler fighter of his universe (a draw against daredevil, make Taskmaster pee in his pants) but let just say the best won and let's not complain about it

Hey! k4tzm4n why not a match Jenifer Blood vs Punisher those two are almost as crazy as the other it can be a good fight for the two

#37 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@danial79 said:

Wow, that was certainly close. Moon Knight may have lost this round, but he always comes back :)

xD

#38 Edited by CyberWarrior (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

...He beated Red Hood, but loosed to Dick... I just don't get it. After the new series get launched, I hope people will start making him justice.

Am I the only one not agreeing with the results?

#39 Edited by Alak (928 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure why Red Hood is being brought up as a means to show that Moon Knight can handle Dick. Nightwing has beaten or gotten the upper hand in each of his encounters with Red Hood (only losing ground when Damien gets in the way). Moon Knight beating Red Hood doesn't make him capable of beating the latter's superior.

#40 Edited by ravisher (695 posts) - - Show Bio

Im glad Dick came out the victor but i know that he'll be feeling this fight for days.

thats what she said

#41 Posted by Decept-O (7294 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#42 Posted by CyberWarrior (1604 posts) - - Show Bio

@alak said:

Not sure why Red Hood is being brought up as a means to show that Moon Knight can handle Dick. Nightwing has beaten or gotten the upper hand in each of his encounters with Red Hood (only losing ground when Damien gets in the way). Moon Knight beating Red Hood doesn't make him capable of beating the latter's superior.

Not sure that he's Jason's superior...

#43 Posted by MonsterStomp (20645 posts) - - Show Bio

I miss the hints.

#44 Posted by _Atomikill_ (4340 posts) - - Show Bio

Am I the only one who just lives to see the faked crossover picks of Dick standing over MK or etc?

#47 Edited by Krissyjump (105 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyberwarrior: Grayson was definitely more skilled than Jason Todd. I'd even go as far to say that, at the end of the Pre52 he could have gone up against Bruce and hold his own, or even pull a surprise win. He is, how I've always seen it, a younger and better version of Bruce. Then again I also think Grayson was a better Batman than Bruce ever was. He's gone up against most of the people Bruce has gone up against and has beaten them all and even gotten the better of many meta-humans. His abilities all around have always been very undervalued by people and I'm confident he could win against almost any street level character and even beat many powered heroes.

#48 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyberwarrior: Grayson was definitely more skilled than Jason Todd. I'd even go as far to say that, at the end of the Pre52 he could have gone up against Bruce and hold his own, or even pull a surprise win. He is, how I've always seen it, a younger and better version of Bruce. Then again I also think Grayson was a better Batman than Bruce ever was. He's gone up against most of the people Bruce has gone up against and has beaten them all and even gotten the better of many meta-humans. His abilities all around have always been very undervalued by people and I'm confident he could win against almost any street level character and even beat many powered heroes.

I'd agree that Nightwing is more skilled than Todd on feats alone, but I certainly don't think he was a better Batman than Bruce. If memory serves, most of his foes weren't even villains that Batman had ever gone up against before (Pyg, Flamingo, Owlman, the 99 Fiends, the Absence, the White Knight). The exception being Red Hood, of course.

I can't even think of an instance where he's gone up against someone that fought Bruce and did better. Batman still had the advantage in HTH over Prometheus, he still took down four White Martians on his own, shot Darkseid, and defeated Bane (a foe that embarrassed Dick twice). Nightwing's good, but he's not that good. As a fan of the character, I'd say that claiming he can win against almost any street-level character isn't a fair statement.

#49 Posted by HushoftheWind (1121 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@krissyjump said:

@cyberwarrior: Grayson was definitely more skilled than Jason Todd. I'd even go as far to say that, at the end of the Pre52 he could have gone up against Bruce and hold his own, or even pull a surprise win. He is, how I've always seen it, a younger and better version of Bruce. Then again I also think Grayson was a better Batman than Bruce ever was. He's gone up against most of the people Bruce has gone up against and has beaten them all and even gotten the better of many meta-humans. His abilities all around have always been very undervalued by people and I'm confident he could win against almost any street level character and even beat many powered heroes.

I'd agree that Nightwing is more skilled than Todd on feats alone, but I certainly don't think he was a better Batman than Bruce. If memory serves, most of his foes weren't even villains that Batman had ever gone up against before (Pyg, Flamingo, Owlman, the 99 Fiends, the Absence, the White Knight). The exception being Red Hood, of course.

I can't even think of an instance where he's gone up against someone that fought Bruce and did better. Batman still had the advantage in HTH over Prometheus, he still took down four White Martians on his own, shot Darkseid, and defeated Bane (a foe that embarrassed Dick twice). Nightwing's good, but he's not that good. As a fan of the character, I'd say that claiming he can win against almost any street-level character isn't a fair statement.

He did hold his own against a perfect Bruce Wayne (granted insane) clone and held his own against Deathstroke in that Arkham breakout, other than that i agree with you, he didnt have to work too that hard during his tenure as Batman, not as much as Bruce did that is.

#50 Posted by HushoftheWind (1121 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Btw Veshark has Moon Knight ever went up against Cap at all? I figured you would know.