#51 Edited by TDK_1997 (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm glad that this battle received the appropriate ending.

#52 Posted by TheBlackHood (375 posts) - - Show Bio

@hart7668 said:

@cadencev2: But Batman has fought Shiva, Deathatroke and recently Talons, so his peak human repertoire is fairly varied as well.

Thats a good argument, much better than Batman wins becuase he face Clay Face and Superman like some people say.

@jayc1324 said:

@cadencev2: I don't think you understand why the argument of batman facing bigger threats than SE matters.

And by the way batman has fought many ninjas at once before and beat them. Same with soldiers

Sorry, I live in the real world were beating something entirely different than another thing does not equal a win :/

So you live in a world where similar style fighters have no bearing on experience. Basically you are saying that despite any logic you want Snake Eyes to win because you want him to win and unless Batman has fought a ninja names Snake Eyes no amount of experience makes any difference. So if someone has raced a thousand different types of cars and is put into a model that is similar to others they've raced you would say it is a completely new experience. Your Logic does not equal our Earth logic.

#53 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

Thats a good argument, much better than Batman wins becuase he face Clay Face and Superman like some people say.

Sorry, I live in the real world were beating something entirely different than another thing does not equal a win :/

So you live in a world where similar style fighters have no bearing on experience. Basically you are saying that despite any logic you want Snake Eyes to win because you want him to win and unless Batman has fought a ninja names Snake Eyes no amount of experience makes any difference. So if someone has raced a thousand different types of cars and is put into a model that is similar to others they've raced you would say it is a completely new experience. Your Logic does not equal our Earth logic.

And I get another User who completely jumps in without reading what I wrote.

Thats the point. Would you fight a Shark the same way a Human? I did not think so >_> I killed a aligator once, can i kill a human now with same training as me?

Try reading the arguments before jumping in. Your example is something similar where mine is not.

It seems people get all defensive when you say this match is a close one. I voted too close to call myself, but people get into a uproar over Bat bias. *shrugs shoulders*

#54 Posted by nickzambuto (14187 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: YOU DID NOT kill a goddamn alligator once.

#55 Posted by MonsterStomp (19515 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake-Eyes was clearly the winner of this fight, but another solid wank for Batman.

Fan wank? Snake was clearly inferior.

#56 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: YOU DID NOT kill a goddamn alligator once.

Sure I did. It was only 3 feet and I had a gun, but it counts.

#57 Edited by nickzambuto (14187 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark_cloud_ said:

Snake-Eyes was clearly the winner of this fight, but another solid wank for Batman.

Fan wank? Snake was clearly inferior.

Nah.

#58 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp said:

@dark_cloud_ said:

Snake-Eyes was clearly the winner of this fight, but another solid wank for Batman.

Fan wank? Snake was clearly inferior.

Nah.

Co signed.

#59 Edited by MonsterStomp (19515 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@monsterstomp said:

@dark_cloud_ said:

Snake-Eyes was clearly the winner of this fight, but another solid wank for Batman.

Fan wank? Snake was clearly inferior.

Nah.

Yeah. Co signed.

#60 Posted by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: SE is not just a regular ninja my God, I can accept the fact Bats won, but It's amazing how people still see him in the same category as a regular old Hand Ninja

#61 Edited by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah: I didn't say he was. But he is still a ninja and batman has beaten many ninjas at once before. Beating numerous ninjas should equal beating one snake eyes right?

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#62 Posted by nickzambuto (14187 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@monsterstomp said:

@dark_cloud_ said:

Snake-Eyes was clearly the winner of this fight, but another solid wank for Batman.

Fan wank? Snake was clearly inferior.

Nah.

Yeah. Co signed.

You agree with me disagreeing with you?

#63 Posted by nickzambuto (14187 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324 said:

@micah: I didn't say he was. But he is still a ninja and batman has beaten many ninjas at once before. Beating numerous ninjas should equal beating one snake eyes right?

...No.

#64 Posted by MonsterStomp (19515 posts) - - Show Bio
#65 Posted by VMole (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Beating numerous nameless, faceless, and featless ninjas is all in a day's work for any street-leveler worth their cred, it's not a supreme accomplishment by any means.

Gorgon is technically a ninja, Batman has beaten plenty of ninjas, he can most certainly beat Gorgon in a straight fight, yes?

#66 Edited by CF12793 (2993 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not really itching for a debate or anything here, feel free to respond if I missed something. I just wanted to point something out that I thought people were not bringing up.

Okay, I believe that this fight would be extremely long and evenhanded. I mean, they're both in top physical form, they're both martial arts masters, and they both have strengths/weaknesses that the other doesn't have. If you think one can beat the other with ease, you're nuts. But I've noticed that a lot of people were saying that Batman was more skilled than Snake Eyes because he had more skill showings, but I believe that's just because Batman has had more appearances. Batman has had a 70 career span, he's been at the center of THOUSANDS of adventures. Snake Eyes has never recieved an ongoing series on his own, and he's only been around for about 30 years (give or take). He's always been part of a Team aswell, so he's never really had any great Solo adventures (That I know of). Yet in most of his appearances, he's been established as a master of Martial arts/H2H combat and utilizes his skill. Call me crazy, but I think they're equals when it comes to martial arts. Batman has just had more appearances.

#67 Edited by nickzambuto (14187 posts) - - Show Bio

@cf12793 said:

I'm not really itching for a debate or anything here, feel free to respond if I missed something. I just wanted to point something out that I thought people were not bringing up.

Okay, I believe that this fight would be extremely long and evenhanded. I mean, they're both in top physical form, they're both martial arts masters, and they both have strengths/weaknesses that the other doesn't have. If you think one can beat the other with ease, you're nuts. But I've noticed that a lot of people were saying that Batman was more skilled than Snake Eyes because he had more showings, but I believe that's just because Batman has had more appearances. Batman has had a 70 career span, he's been at the center of THOUSANDS of adventures. Snake Eyes has never recieved an ongoing series on his own, and he's only been around for about 30 years (give or take). Yet in most of his appearances, he's been established as a master of Martial arts/H2H combat and utilizes his skill. Call me crazy, but I think they're equals when it comes to martial arts. Batman has just had more appearances.

Chuck Dixon even said that he believes they're equal in skill.

#68 Edited by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: I wasn't referring to you, if you read through all of the old arguments some people still see him as amazingly inferior to Batman. i'm not gonna complain because i'm a good sport but I don't think Batman will beat him that easily. whether he catches him with his sword in the abdomen or breaks his arm or a rib etc. ect. ect. Point being, He's not going to just brush in their and manhandle him, he's going to have to fight hard

Beating numerous ninjas shouldn't equal snake eyes. Those guys are amazingly unskilled and cannon fodder sometimes in the Marvel/DC Universe lol

I'll excuse the second scan, because their fighting Elektra, but Daredevil (Not trying to undercut him) but these guys are supposed to be members of a centuries old organization and they can't deal with a street-leveler. Disgusting

#69 Edited by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: Firstly, batman has actually beaten ninjas with names before, like ubu. Secondly, league of assassins ninjas are trained to be able to fight 200 men at once. The fact that a large group of them cannot beat one batman means a lot.

Lastly, gorgon is a mutant unlike snake eyes and actually has powers. So that argument was irrelevant and unfair

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#71 Posted by iaconpoint (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

@onkelkarlie: Hey good point. I'll be sure and run all my opinions by your dumb ass from now on. I feel smarterer already!

#72 Posted by nickzambuto (14187 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah: I just need to point out Daredevil>Elektra.

#73 Edited by VMole (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: You made a general statement that basically reasoned because Batman has beaten multiple ninjas, that somehow Snake Eyes was not going to be an issue simply because he was just one ninja. I brought up Gorgon to illustrate the point that not every ninja is of equal stature and your statement was very broad and poorly reasoned.

#74 Posted by iaconpoint (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

@onkelkarlie: By the way, thanks for registering just to respond to little old me. I'm honored.

#75 Posted by TimeLordScience (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

@timelordscience said:

@cadencev2: a comparable fight is the fight with Nobody. That type of experience is what will allow Batman to win.

True, but what feats does Nobody have to say he is on the same level as Snake Eye's. Lets put the other shoe on the other foot now. Snake Eyes has fought and beaten way more than nobody did, thus he must be better.

Thats the extent of arguments for Batman here.

Im just calling it how I see it. He have more feats in a well establish universe means he wins. Thats the arguments these days boil down to lol.

Well did you see how many knives Nobody put in Batman's back and Bats still kept fighting? Granted, Snake Eyes certainly has more feats, but Nobody isn't supposed to be a slouch by any means. Anyone who was involved in the training of Batman is supposed to have legitimacy, whether Tomasi was willing to put in the effort to establish feats or not is another matter.

#76 Posted by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: Yes, snake eyes is not going to be a problem for that reason. Everything that snake eyes has is something batman has dealt with before. That argument is not poorly reasoned.

And like I said the gorgon argument doesn't make sense since he actually has powers

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#77 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@timelordscience said:

@cadencev2: a comparable fight is the fight with Nobody. That type of experience is what will allow Batman to win.

True, but what feats does Nobody have to say he is on the same level as Snake Eye's. Lets put the other shoe on the other foot now. Snake Eyes has fought and beaten way more than nobody did, thus he must be better.

Thats the extent of arguments for Batman here.

Im just calling it how I see it. He have more feats in a well establish universe means he wins. Thats the arguments these days boil down to lol.

Well did you see how many knives Nobody put in Batman's back and Bats still kept fighting? Granted, Snake Eyes certainly has more feats, but Nobody isn't supposed to be a slouch by any means. Anyone who was involved in the training of Batman is supposed to have legitimacy, whether Tomasi was willing to put in the effort to establish feats or not is another matter.

All good points. Wish more of that was in the debate itself ;)

#78 Posted by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah: OK i see what you mean

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#79 Posted by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: Just wanted to say, this is what Gorgon did to Shang-Shi "The Master of Kung Fu". He brought him down to his knees in four exchanges

Next Battle of the Month: Gorgon vs Batman

#80 Posted by TimeLordScience (1153 posts) - - Show Bio

@timelordscience said:

@cadencev2 said:

@timelordscience said:

@cadencev2: a comparable fight is the fight with Nobody. That type of experience is what will allow Batman to win.

True, but what feats does Nobody have to say he is on the same level as Snake Eye's. Lets put the other shoe on the other foot now. Snake Eyes has fought and beaten way more than nobody did, thus he must be better.

Thats the extent of arguments for Batman here.

Im just calling it how I see it. He have more feats in a well establish universe means he wins. Thats the arguments these days boil down to lol.

Well did you see how many knives Nobody put in Batman's back and Bats still kept fighting? Granted, Snake Eyes certainly has more feats, but Nobody isn't supposed to be a slouch by any means. Anyone who was involved in the training of Batman is supposed to have legitimacy, whether Tomasi was willing to put in the effort to establish feats or not is another matter.

All good points. Wish more of that was in the debate itself ;)

I was tempted but it didn't look like Batman needed any more help (:

#81 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n : And apparently thinking Snake-Eyes could beat Batman in good fight is far-fetched, too, eh? I am disappointed by the outcome, simply because there were a couple things left answered; one specific claim people made was that Batman could replicate Snake-Eyes' techniques that were based on utilizing chi, yet none of them provided evidence (scans, page #'s, etc.) - and instead, continued to claim that he could simply because he had fought "more powerful people." So, what I saw was Batwank.

#82 Posted by VMole (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Batman's experience also includes getting shot, stabbed, and being beaten to a pulp by various opponents over the years, is it valid to use those instances to prove that Snake Eyes can do the exact same thing to him? See how my reasoning works just as well as yours?

@micah said:

@vmole: Just wanted to say, this is what Gorgon did to Shang-Shi "The Master of Kung Fu". He brought him down to his knees in four exchanges

Next Battle of the Month: Gorgon vs Batman

"Next Battle of the Month: Gorgon vs Batman"

Gods no, it'll be one-sided as all hell. D:

I have the scans for that issue, and Shang Chi gave a very good account for himself at the start even if he did eventually get defeated in the end. His defeat certainly wasn't by some nobody that's for sure, the fact that he managed to hold his own for a bit against a guy that made Elektra and Wolverine into complete and utter buttmonkeys raised my respect for him a lot more.

#83 Posted by MonsterStomp (19515 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark_cloud_: I don't think people meant Batman can replicate chi. More or less he could replicate the feats Snake accomplished with chi, without chi. Snake almost killed Storm with a chi charged punch, Batman could replicate that without chi.

#84 Posted by snarkybits (379 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake Eyes can beat dozens of ninja without problem.

Even when they assume the ULTIMATE NINJA TEAMWORK FORM OF DOOOOM!!!: The Cheerleader Ninja Pyramid Scorpion

I'll post the pic later...but it is GREAT!!!

#85 Edited by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: batman also has a history of dodging bullets, a bulletproof suit, and blocking swords with his gauntlets. Like i said, everything snake eyes has to offer is something batman has conquered before.

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#86 Edited by k4tzm4n (49880 posts) - - Show Bio
@dark_cloud_ said:

@k4tzm4n : And apparently thinking Snake-Eyes could beat Batman in good fight is far-fetched, too, eh? I am disappointed by the outcome, simply because there were a couple things left answered

Being disappointed is perfectly fine. Implying that you're blaming the outcome solely on fanboys is another. As for your first sentence, I only witnessed one person make the absurd claim that Batman would walk all over Snake Eyes, and even then, that's merely one vote out of 300+ (it's worth noting that a vast majority of the voters don't take part in the debate. Whether or not they read it... well, there's sadly no way of knowing). Anyone who even did the bare basics when it comes to research should hopefully have the common sense to realize this isn't a walk in the park for either character. And seeing as I make it crystal clear in the rules that people have four days to do research before voting, I'd like to believe at least a moderate amount of them do just that.

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#87 Edited by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: Same here I have sooooo much more respect for him now as well. But you know at the end , Basically Gorgan shrugged off all of his attacks and then crippled him, I just posted this scan to demonstrate how lethal Gorgon is. As he was shown no selling all of Shi's attacks.

P.S: I hope Shang-Shi survived if you recall the ending

#88 Edited by VMole (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Except Batman hasn't 'conquered' any of those things, he still remains very vulnerable to getting shot, stabbed, and beaten to a pulp. There remains a very possible outcome for him to be defeated by any of those means, it just greatly depends on the circumstances involved.

#89 Edited by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: he actually rarely gets shot and has a bullet proof suit. The last time he got shot in my memory was when cops with shotguns came out if nowhere and blasted him. And that was cheap because his suit wasn't bulletproof at this point and you can't really dodge shotgun blasts

He dodges more often than he gets shot and I don't think he's ever gotten shot by one person who had his complete attention. He dodged deadshot's bullet before so I don't think snake eyes is shooting him

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#90 Edited by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: remember Deadshot pulls his shots to about 30% or 40% give or take

He himself stated he could put one between his eyes if he wanted to

#91 Posted by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah: eh I don't know about that. Batman has dodged him numerous times where he was trying to kill him. But anyway, does snake eyes even have marksmanship skills like deadshot?

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#92 Edited by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Not gonna lie, i'm not sure, but the comics i've seen him in, everything he's targeted or everyone he's targeted he has hit or killed and this is with a wide variety of weapons and with a wide variety of foes including ones with superhuman senses

Also this isn't SE feat but when he was training in the mountain with Storm Shadow. Storm Shadow was able to nail a squirrel through a wall while it was moving and jumping around and he also could not see it. The reason I include this feat is because SE is supposed to be on the same level as Storm Shadow or better

I thought Deadshot had a disorder when it came to targeting Batman which was the reason he couldn't kill him?

#93 Edited by VMole (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Bulletproof =/= bullet immune, it just means that his suit is proofed up to a certain type of ammunition and can take fire without causing significant damage. We have armor today that does that exact same thing with the only issue, as with any armor, is taking repeat hits before failing to stand up to any more damage. Batman's armor gets damaged, a lot, it gets damaged all the time from repeated blunt force trauma, gunfire, and bladed weapons, it just gives Batman a margin of error, it's far from a guarantee.

You're also missing the point, he has a bulletproof suit in the first place because there is still a very high chance of him getting shot by people with amazing to even moderately good accuracy or even lucky shots from random stupid mooks, he can't dodge everything.

Also, how is getting shot by a shotgun considered 'cheap'? If it works, it works.

#94 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp : Super_Buck stated perfectly clear that Batman could replicate Snake-Eyes' chi-based techniques, and that's exactly what he meant to say. Batman can do the same move while not using chi? Impossible. He might be able to copy the movements, but he won't have the same result. You know, with the whole thing about a wave of chi flowing out when Snake-Eyes palm-struck Storm Shadow's forehead. If Batman can do that, without using chi, by all means... show me those scans.

#95 Edited by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: Batman rarely gets shot. The bulletproof batsuit was brought up just in case he does get shot but after dodging deadshot's shot, I don't think he can be shot by someone he is focusing on. He has been dodging bullets for years. Also, snake eyes doesn't have a shotgun unless I'm mistaken

So one of the rare times batman has been shot isn't relevant here since snake eyes doesn't have the weapon to do it. All I'm basically say is that thinking snake eyes can just shoot batman is silly. Not only does bats have consistent dodging feats, but his suit is bulletproof, he has shown that he has enough accuracy to throw a batarang into the barrel of a gun, and he dodged deadshot's bullets many times before.

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#96 Posted by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah: I've never heard of deadshot having a disorder or anything. And deadshot has similar feats or marksmanship to that and batman still has a bullet proof suit even if SE is skilled enough to hit him which he might be (though it is unlikely)

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#97 Posted by VMole (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: Deadshot pulls his shots against Batman, how many times do I have to state this? If Floyd wanted to hit Batman, and Batman isn't already behind anything that can provide any degree of cover against what he's packing, Batman is getting shot and that shot is going to hurt, badly.

#98 Posted by MonsterStomp (19515 posts) - - Show Bio

@dark_cloud_: Doesn't matter. Batman can literally knock Storm out in one well placed hit. Snake couldn't do it with a chi amped hit. Chi adds NOTHING.

#99 Edited by Jayc1324 (12937 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: No. Bullets aren't like punches. You can't pull them. That's simply makes no sense. And deadshot legitimately tries to kill batman. You are trying to debunk the feats if batman dodging his bullets but it still stands. Batman dodges bullets without cover all the time and has done this to deadshot before. And anyway, you ignored the other things I posted explaining why batman won't get shot.

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#100 Edited by micah (1587 posts) - - Show Bio

@jayc1324: One Well placed Armor Piercing round should solve that

And the disorder I was referring to was Deadshot having a mental block when it comes to killing Batman, apparently its because he reminds him of his brother