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Posted by k4tzm4n (34907 posts) 1 year, 3 months ago

Poll: Batman Battle of the Month: Batman vs. Cyclops (724 votes)

Cyclops 44%
Batman 50%
Too close to call 6%

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 30 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc..
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • This is PRE-PHOENIX FORCE Cyclops. This way he actually has control of his power.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in this poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#201 Posted by MisterWhisper (2187 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@misterwhisper: For the umpteenth time, Cyclops is not going to straight up vaporise Batman nor is he going to use a wide blast from the onset of the fight.

I never said anything about either of those, I said he could destroy what he is running to hide in or behind. I even said he does not have to hit hard enough to kill. Please try reading what I post before replying.

#202 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii: If Cyclops can't see Batman, he will know somethings wrong since he's in a battle. He could just blow everything away(20 meters around him). Then he could it Batman easily since he can hit Wolverine.

By the time he does that Batman will be in a different area.

@jashro44 said:

Not to mention the radius of his blasts. Look at the scan I posted above. Has batman dodged a projectile that big? Sure cyclops wont fire a shot that wide in every scenario but he can do it in a few/couple.

I think if Batman saw a blast the radius of that he would jump over it and quickly throw some batarangs or gas/freeze pellets to distract Scott and evade to a safer location.

#203 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

You use a photoshopped scan of Batman taking the place of "a different guy" and you think I'm the one embarrassing myself?

1) That "different guy" is actually Storm...so you just yanked an image off of google without knowing the significance of it all. That makes you look like a real Pro.

2) Storm knows Cyclops...Batman doesn't. Batman won't know that cyclops can't control his blasts without the visor and he won't know that Cyclops won't blast away blindly.

3) During that fight Cyclops is distracted. Battle Forum rules state that the Characters are fighting "at their best but within the limits of their personality"...he won't be distracted here

4) One Low Showing for Cyclops doesn't cancel out years of consistently better performances. Also, that scan was from over 25 years ago....he's gotten better since then.

  1. You're being ridiculous now. I used it as a visual example of how Batman could get the drop on Cyclops for goodness sake. Will you please drop the arrogant attitude? It doesn't do you any favours and makes you look like a jerk. You're showing yourself up when I've debunked your false reason why I posted it. Makes you like a real pro
  2. It doesn't take a genius to see Cyclops' blasts come from his visor so a tactician like Bruce will see that the visor is key to his powers.
  3. But Batman can distract him with smoke grenades, concussion grenades, batarangs and more. See the scans earlier on from Doctor Light and the New 52 too.
  4. So has Batman.

And by your logic he will always have to wait for Batman to attack him first. Your logic actually applies to Batman too! Maybe your logic is as faulty as mine. His Wide beams aren't always lethal, why would you warn someone who attacked you that you will throw him unconcious?

I'm not saying he won't fire warning shots but by the time he decides to throw in a wide beam, Batman will have made his move. Cyclops doesn't have superhuman senses you know and Batman will have had time to plan an attack to take him down. So no, my logic isn't faulty at all.

#204 Edited by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Again, if there's no cover 20 meters around Cyclops, how can Batman take down Cyclops? The moment Batman goes to attack Cyke, Scott would blow him away. Wolverine has better reflexe than Batman and Cyke has hit Logan in the past.

#205 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Dude are you taking Cyclops for the dumbest character in comics? Cyke see a light going off he would just blow everything in this direction. Like i already said, what's stopping Cyclops from blasting everything away around him? If he can't see Batman, he will know something's wrong.

Are you kidding me right now? If anything, Batman is going to know where Cyclops is because of his optic blasts, and move out of the blast radius of Cyclops. Batman sees Cyclops blast something near him, he moves entirely out of the area, perhaps on the rooftops and try and take Scott down from there. If he can't see Batman, he won't know what to do. He may go beserk and blast a bunch of things, but that is contradicting his "calm leadership" trait. Cyclops will try and locate Batman and get a precise hit. If Scott does resort to wide beams, there is plenty of cover, and that is even if Batman is in the radius.

#206 Posted by dondave (38889 posts) - - Show Bio
#207 Edited by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

the more I keep thinking about this, the less I think Bruce really stands a chance. I'd feel generous giving him two wins. It's like how I feel about Batman vs Wolverine, but a little more lenient. I'll get a case up later, or something.

Moderator
#208 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@misterwhisper: For the umpteenth time, Cyclops is not going to straight up vaporise Batman nor is he going to use a wide blast from the onset of the fight.

I never said anything about either of those, I said he could destroy what he is running to hide in or behind. I even said he does not have to hit hard enough to kill. Please try reading what I post before replying.

Please try using some sense before replying and know the combatants. Batman is easily capable of moving from cover to cover and not staying in one spot. And he can get up on buildings into stealth too. So even a concussive shot would be hard to achieve. Cyclops isn't going to go all out from the start and that's the only way he can beat Batman.

#209 Edited by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: If Cyke can't have a clear look at Batman, he will shoot a larger blast in Batman direction. Cyke isn't dumb enough to stay at a lower ground if there's buildings around him. Omg. By the way, like i said, Cyke can destroy any building. He has destroy moutains.

#210 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Again, if there's no cover 20 meters around Cyclops, how can Batman take down Cyclops? The moment Batman goes to attack Cyke, Scott would blow him away. Wolverine has better reflexe than Batman and Cyke has hit Logan in the past.

There is plenty of cover as there are in a downtown city...at night...

Batman has so many methods of taking down Cyclops its not even funny. Batman always has a plan, prepped or on the go. He's trained to take down super-powered beings with all sorts of powers. That's why he has taken down brutes, Clayface, Mad Bull, and other enemies because he adapts and uses his gadgets properly.

#211 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

the more I keep thinking about this, the less I think Bruce really stands a chance. I'd feel generous giving him two wins. It's like how I feel about Batman vs Wolverine, but a little more lenient. I'll get a case up later, or something.

He's in a city with plenty of cover, a chance to go into stealth and it's an in character fight. But I'll be interested to see your case for Cyclops even if I do disagree with it.

#212 Posted by jashro44 (25342 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

That is true, but he IS firing them at a much faster rate, so that should be taken into account.

I'm not to sure about that. Cyclops has been able to shoot approaching missiles coming at him in the past using rapid fire.

Sorry about not showing the entire set of scans. Batman does manage to close in on his opponent, using the psychological factor, as well as utilizing his gadgets.

Thing is cyclops doesn't really have any psychological weaknesses that batman knows about.

More feats to back up Batman can dodge energy blasts similar to the likes of Scott's optic blasts.Given that Cyclop's blasts are a bid wider and more accurate, I'd say Batman is familiar enough with these kind of attacks to make it home safely.

Does Dr. Light have any accuracy feats though? As I mentioned above Cyclops has tagged wolverine (who has comparable speed feats to batman and not to mention his enhanced senses allow him to detect the pressure of the blast letting him dodge in advance), nightcrawler (who is a teleporter), and beast (who is very agile and fast).

@lvenger said:

@jashro44: I seem to be battling from all sides here so I'll only deal with the last point. Unless Cyclops nails Batman straight away, which he can do but doesn't in character, this gives Batman a chance to get into cover, launch some distractions on Cyclops from there and go stealthily to strike Cyclops from surprise. Scott won't fire a wide beam straight away and therein lies his downfall for me.

Fair enough. Admittedly stealth is something that makes this iffy. All though I disagree that cyclops wont blast Bruce right away.

#213 Edited by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: So your argument is, Batman has plans so he wins? Lmao. He took down Mad Bull so he wins? Lol. Everyone you named are a lot dumber than Cyke is. Stop man, preps isn't going to help him here, since there's no prep. So you're saying, batman already planned to take down someone who can blast concussive laser and who's extremely good at H2H?

You also seem to forget that Cyclops can blast any cover around himself to force Bruce in the open.

#214 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Thank you for seeing that point in my argument. If Cyclops had more of a shoot first attitude, I'd see him winning this. But he hasn't shown a tendency to do that.

#215 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@cheesesticks said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: If Cyke can't have a clear look at Batman, he will shoot a larger blast in Batman direction. Cyke isn't dumb enough to stay at a lower ground if there's buildings around him. Omg. By the way, like i said, Cyke can destroy any building. He has destroy moutains.

If Cyclops can't have a clear look on Batman, HOW WILL HE KNOW WHERE TO SHOOT IN HIS GENERAL DIRECTION? That literally makes no sense and contradicts itself. If Cyclops doesn't know where Bruce is, he'll shoot where Bruce is? What?

Simple fact is once Cyclops loses vision of Batman (he will), Bruce will move away from the general radius and think of a plan while Cyclops is still trying to locate Batman and is blasting away randomly. Batman seldom hides INSIDE buildings, so even if Cyclops gets lucky and does shoot down the building that Batman is near, it won't kill him because he will either be only NEAR it, or atop of it.

And if that is the case Batman has survived explosions right in front of him before.

  • Brushing off/evading an explosion behind him.
  • Evading close-range suicidal bomb explosions by mind-controlled Batmen
  • Surviving an explosion rigged by Cobb

#216 Posted by Squalleon (4858 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: But why you think that Cyclops would be at the defensive here!
Why won't give a wide beam if he sees that batman can dodge standard beams,Why will Batman manage to escape when Cyclops can easily hunt him down, why won't he try to survive when Batman finally makes his move by hitting at a 360 radius, why won't he try to kill, when he is threatened, this is pre AvX Cyclops but he still is a different Cyclops since the one on Claremont's Xmen You drag this battle to the point for Batman to finally "sneak up" on Cyclops, that's the fault i see, that Batman will sneak up in the first place, why would Cyclops give him the opportunity since as you said he knows nothing about him so he shouldn't lose his eyes from him?

#217 Posted by DADDY_XERO (76 posts) - - Show Bio

what is scotts eyesight like when looking through the visor?

is it like riddick and he can see in the dark? even if everything he sees is red, doesn't that cancel the dark/stealth aspect of batmans strategy?

#218 Posted by MisterWhisper (2187 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Scott does not have to go all out, he could easily just cut off Bruce's means of stealth.

They start out standing in the street, what is Bruce's first move going to be? More than likely he is going to throw smoke pellets and bolt for cover.

In the time it takes him to reach into his belt and throw them Scott can tag him, and no not a blast to take his head off but one easily strong enough to knock him out.

Let's assume that for a second that he does get them off.

Bruce smoke bombs and bolts for a building. It is not hard to figure out what he is trying to do, especially for someone as experienced as Scott. He can take down the front of the building, if Bruce tries to grapple his way to the roof that just leaves him an open target. If he gets to the roof, Scott can just take the roof off dropping Bruce back onto the street.

There are 100's of ways for this fight to go and Bruce's only sure chance to win is with a stealthy sneak attack, I just do not see him getting that chance very often.

Scott still wins 6/10.

#219 Edited by jashro44 (25342 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

I think if Batman saw a blast the radius of that he would jump over it and quickly throw some batarangs or gas/freeze pellets to distract Scott and evade to a safer location.

Thing is Cyclops blasts move at light speed. Batmans only hope of dodging them is aim dodging (which I admit I think Bruce can dodge a couple). Its a lot harder to aim dodge when the blast is basically every where. Basically batman is going to have to clear 20 feet before cyclops can get off a shot if cyclops goes for a wide blast. And given cyclops reaction feats that is going to be extremely difficult. I don't think even batman can do that.

#220 Edited by vandinejd_1991 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@patrat18: he didn't dodge Darkseid's omega beams

#221 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: That's fine. I can completely respect the difference in opinion, and I understand the case why because I think it is a perfectly legitimate way for Bruce to win by using the environment. Good users are using the case like YNCG or CB thinks it is enough. I just don't see it playing out that way too often, especially for a majority.

Moderator
#222 Posted by jashro44 (25342 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@jashro44: Thank you for seeing that point in my argument. If Cyclops had more of a shoot first attitude, I'd see him winning this. But he hasn't shown a tendency to do that.

No problem (Granted I do disagree).

#223 Edited by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You're talking like Cyclops won't shoot if he doesn't see Batman. You didn't understand what i was saying. If Cyclops see movement he will shoot, even if it's not a clear look. He will shoot right there and since he can cover large distance with his blast, Batman won't be able to avoid it. Your scans are all irrelevant since an explosion has nothing to do with Cyclops blast. His optic blast are a lot quicker.

And what @daddy_xero said

#224 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (6456 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops

#225 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro This is looking to be a good debate. Care to chime in?

Moderator
#226 Edited by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@shawnbaby said:

You use a photoshopped scan of Batman taking the place of "a different guy" and you think I'm the one embarrassing myself?

1) That "different guy" is actually Storm...so you just yanked an image off of google without knowing the significance of it all. That makes you look like a real Pro.

2) Storm knows Cyclops...Batman doesn't. Batman won't know that cyclops can't control his blasts without the visor and he won't know that Cyclops won't blast away blindly.

3) During that fight Cyclops is distracted. Battle Forum rules state that the Characters are fighting "at their best but within the limits of their personality"...he won't be distracted here

4) One Low Showing for Cyclops doesn't cancel out years of consistently better performances. Also, that scan was from over 25 years ago....he's gotten better since then.

  1. You're being ridiculous now. I used it as a visual example of how Batman could get the drop on Cyclops for goodness sake. Will you please drop the arrogant attitude? It doesn't do you any favours and makes you look like a jerk. You're showing yourself up when I've debunked your false reason why I posted it. Makes you like a real pro
  2. It doesn't take a genius to see Cyclops' blasts come from his visor so a tactician like Bruce will see that the visor is key to his powers.
  3. But Batman can distract him with smoke grenades, concussion grenades, batarangs and more. See the scans earlier on from Doctor Light and the New 52 too.
  4. So has Batman.
@squalleon said:

And by your logic he will always have to wait for Batman to attack him first. Your logic actually applies to Batman too! Maybe your logic is as faulty as mine. His Wide beams aren't always lethal, why would you warn someone who attacked you that you will throw him unconcious?

I'm not saying he won't fire warning shots but by the time he decides to throw in a wide beam, Batman will have made his move. Cyclops doesn't have superhuman senses you know and Batman will have had time to plan an attack to take him down. So no, my logic isn't faulty at all.

I'm not being arrogant because I believe that little scan you found of "Batman" beating Cyclops isn't proof of anything. Like I said... I could swap Cyclops in for someone that's tagged Batman with an energy blast just as easily. It wouldn't prove anything. It does however make the person using that scan look desperate. You can't use a scan like that and not expect it to be thrown back in your face...especially when you don't even know the context behind the scan.

Also, as far as "looking like a jerk"...your attitude isn't helping things along either. We're both guilty of being a little hostile.

As far as Batman knows...the Visor is just another part of Cyclops costume. He won't know that Cyclops can't control his blasts without it and he won't know that Cyclops won't just continue blasting anyway. Storm knew those things because She knows Scott.

#227 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Scott does not have to go all out, he could easily just cut off Bruce's means of stealth.

They start out standing in the street, what is Bruce's first move going to be? More than likely he is going to throw smoke pellets and bolt for cover.

In the time it takes him to reach into his belt and throw them Scott can tag him, and no not a blast to take his head off but one easily strong enough to knock him out.

Let's assume that for a second that he does get them off.

Bruce smoke bombs and bolts for a building. It is not hard to figure out what he is trying to do, especially for someone as experienced as Scott. He can take down the front of the building, if Bruce tries to grapple his way to the roof that just leaves him an open target. If he gets to the roof, Scott can just take the roof off dropping Bruce back onto the street.

There are 100's of ways for this fight to go and Bruce's only sure chance to win is with a stealthy sneak attack, I just do not see him getting that chance very often.

Scott still wins 6/10.

Batman's dodged blasts from Doctor Light, shots from Deathstroke and a holding back Deadshot and more so I think he can dodge Cyclops' blasts much more easily than you give him credit for. How is Scott going to know where Bruce has gone through all the smoke? He doesn't have X-Ray vision. Then once he's in cover, he can decide what he wants to do whilst Scott is blasting away randomly and then take Scott out with a concussion grenade or another of his gadgets. The ball is in Bruce's court once he gets to cover.

@lvenger:

But why you think that Cyclops would be at the defensive here!

Why won't give a wide beam if he sees that batman can dodge standard beams,Why will Batman manage to escape when Cyclops can easily hunt him down, why won't he try to survive when Batman finally makes his move by hitting at a 360 radius, why won't he try to kill, when he is threatened, this is pre AvX Cyclops but he still is a different Cyclops since the one on Claremont's Xmen You drag this battle to the point for Batman to finally "sneak up" on Cyclops, that's the fault i see, that Batman will sneak up in the first place, why would Cyclops give him the opportunity since as you said he knows nothing about him so he shouldn't lose his eyes from him?

Why is he going to use a wide ranging blast straight away to take out someone he's just met? He won't know where Bruce is if he's snuck off so he won't see the sneak attack coming. You can't argue against this fact and if Bruce does get into cover, Cyclops is in trouble.

#228 Posted by sandiego008 (3280 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay so I didn't read everyone's post but I figured I would say how I think the battle goes.

Fight starts and batman goes for cover and cyclops shoots an optic beam at him missing.

Batman continues to hid in cover and takes out the street lamps while noting cyclops narrow beam.

Batman realizes it would probably be wise to lure cyclops into an alley where he can get the jump on him and take him out via h2h combat. (All this time cyclops has continued to take shots at where he thinks batman is and continues to use narrow beam as is characteristic of him).

Batman lures cyclops into an alley(cyclops realizes what is going on as he is a tactician as well) and batman gets a jump on cyclops. But cyclops is fast/agile enough that he is grazed / dazed by the hit.

At this point I would say is where one would argue. I think cyclops would be able to survive an initial assault by batman and be pretty much 30%. Others might say batman takes him.

If cyclops survives initial assault he then surprises batman by lighting up the entire alley and taking the alley and batman out w/ a concussive force (not deadly) blast.

I feel that since this is in character cyclops would have to be at 30%'ish strength wise to want to use such a wide range and destructive blast. But if he was put on the ropes he would.

#229 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @god_spawn: Thank you both for seeing the legitimacy in this tactic. And I look forward to seeing what you come up with GS.

#230 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: So your argument is, Batman has plans so he wins? Lmao. He took down Mad Bull so he wins? Lol. Everyone you named are a lot dumber than Cyke is. Stop man, preps isn't going to help him here, since there's no prep. So you're saying, batman already planned to take down someone who can blast concussive laser and who's extremely good at H2H?

You also seem to forget that Cyclops can blast any cover around himself to force Bruce in the open.

Plans = MORE WAYS TO WIN. More efficient ways to win, because Batman is vastly more intelligent and versatile than Cyclops will ever be, period. And did I say Batman had prep? I said he always has a plan or at least a strategy/tactic whether it is prepped or on the go.

You fail to understand any of my points.

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

That is true, but he IS firing them at a much faster rate, so that should be taken into account.

I'm not to sure about that. Cyclops has been able to shoot approaching missiles coming at him in the past using rapid fire.

Sorry about not showing the entire set of scans. Batman does manage to close in on his opponent, using the psychological factor, as well as utilizing his gadgets.

Thing is cyclops doesn't really have any psychological weaknesses that batman knows about.

More feats to back up Batman can dodge energy blasts similar to the likes of Scott's optic blasts.Given that Cyclop's blasts are a bid wider and more accurate, I'd say Batman is familiar enough with these kind of attacks to make it home safely.

Does Dr. Light have any accuracy feats though? As I mentioned above Cyclops has tagged wolverine (who has comparable speed feats to batman and not to mention his enhanced senses allow him to detect the pressure of the blast letting him dodge in advance), nightcrawler (who is a teleporter), and beast (who is very agile and fast).

I'm aware about the psychological and accuracy/rapid fire of Cyclops, I just don't see him using it against a human. Scott usually only uses his abilities like that either in last resort, when the opponent isn't truly alive, or when he knows the opponent can survive the blast (such as Wolverine, who has a healing factor).

As for Dr.Light he isn't the best marksman, but he isn't a slouch. This is an example of how Batman will be smart and distract and disorientate Cyclops before moving in for the KO. Green Arrow tried misdirection on Dr.Light and yet he still accurately hit him with his light blast.

#231 Edited by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

I'm not being arrogant because I believe that little scan you found of "Batman" beating Cyclops isn't proof of anything. Like I said... I could swap Cyclops in for someone that's tagged Batman with an energy blast just as easily. It wouldn't prove anything. It does however make the person using that scan look desperate. You can't use a scan like that and not expect it to be thrown back in your face...especially when you don't even know the context behind the scan.

Also, as far as "looking like a jerk"...your attitude isn't helping things along either. We're both guilty of being a little hostile.

As far as Batman knows...the Visor is just another part of Cyclops costume. He won't know that Cyclops can't control his blasts without it and he won't know that Cyclops won't just continue blasting anyway. Storm knew those things because She knows Scott.

Fine whatever. You're misinterpreting the point of me showing a possible way Batman can grab Cyclops' visor from a stealth attack which I was showing via that photo. It wasn't a feat, it was an example. Get that into your head because you're overlooking it. This isn't meant to be hostile by the way, just a clear statement of what my intention was.

The visor is a part of Cyclops' costume but the blasts are coming from the visor so a tactician on Batman's level is going to realise that the two are connected. I mean if Bruce pulls gadgets from his belt, Cyclops isn't going to think these things are coming out of midair. Batman knows people who shoot lasers from his eyes anyway.

#232 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

I think if Batman saw a blast the radius of that he would jump over it and quickly throw some batarangs or gas/freeze pellets to distract Scott and evade to a safer location.

Thing is Cyclops blasts move at light speed. Batmans only hope of dodging them is aim dodging (which I admit I think Bruce can dodge a couple). Its a lot harder to aim dodge when the blast is basically every where. Basically batman is going to have to clear 20 feet before cyclops can get off a shot if cyclops goes for a wide blast. And given cyclops reaction feats that is going to be extremely difficult. I don't think even batman can do that.

Good point. I do believe that Batman is smart enough to move out of the general radius to a safer location after seeing blasts like that though.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: You're talking like Cyclops won't shoot if he doesn't see Batman. You didn't understand what i was saying. If Cyclops see movement he will shoot, even if it's not a clear look. He will shoot right there and since he can cover large distance with his blast, Batman won't be able to avoid it. Your scans are all irrelevant since an explosion has nothing to do with Cyclops blast. His optic blast are a lot quicker.

And what @daddy_xero said

But the thing is Cyclops won't see Batman. It's dark, Bruce will eliminate light sources, and more. Batman doesn't even get spotted in clear daylight. Plus your point is only in Bruce's favor because if he does try and pinpoint small locations, he is trying to get a precise hit, not spamming wide beams. So really this is only in Batman's favor.

Again, even if Cyclops can see in the dark (I doubt it), Batman has stealthily taken down skilled fighters in daylight without the aid of the dark. Heck, he pulls the disappearing act on countless people.

#233 Posted by Owie (3950 posts) - - Show Bio

I gotta go Cyke here. Really this comes down to his accuracy vs Bat's dodging. Cyke has essentially matchless accuracy. Batman has excellent dodging, but it's not like he never gets hit. We can show scans of him dodging stuff all day. But we could also find some pics of him getting hit if we wanted to.

It's worthless to show any character dodging energy beams and arguing that they are light speed and thus show that the character has even-better-than-bullet-timing dodging abilities. In comic book physics, energy beams are no harder to dodge than bullets.

In terms of Batman's dodging, what I would like to see is him dodging some arrows from a serious Green Arrow. He may well have done this. What I am saying is, if he can do that, then I will be persuaded that he has a chance to dodge a serious Cyke.

Cyke can also go wide-beam without being at maximum intensity--see below. Almost impossible to dodge, and non lethal. Certainly his powers has increased in recent years (this is the 86 handbook), but still it's also obvious that he can control the power level and that the standard power has an inverse relationship with the beam's width.

Clearly Batman has a chance here. He could throw some gas right away for instance. But I think Cyke takes the majority.

#234 Edited by delpop7 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

I think whats missing from the discussions on these battles is always the fact of would this character rather then could they... Cyclops in most cases is not going to go full force with his beam right out the gate cause he doesn't no what his enemy about... in genral he's never killed first and asked questions later. So he'd more then likely use ah stunning or knock out powered blast and not knowing of batmans armor opens the door wide open to misdirect summers into coming in close to see what the conclusion of his blast was and batman to use ether his stealth and cunning or hand-to-hand and slightly if not greater strength advantage.... from there draw ur own ending

Bat wins

#235 Posted by jashro44 (25342 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@jashro44: @god_spawn: Thank you both for seeing the legitimacy in this tactic. And I look forward to seeing what you come up with GS.

No problem.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek

I'm aware about the psychological and accuracy/rapid fire of Cyclops, I just don't see him using it against a human. Scott usually only uses his abilities like that either in last resort, when the opponent isn't truly alive, or when he knows the opponent can survive the blast (such as Wolverine, who has a healing factor).

I don't see why the power of his blast is connected to the speeds in which he fires them? Cyclops has some really good control of his powers. He can fire many optic blasts that wont kill batman if need be.

As for Dr.Light he isn't the best marksman, but he isn't a slouch. This is an example of how Batman will be smart and distract and disorientate Cyclops before moving in for the KO. Green Arrow tried misdirection on Dr.Light and yet he still accurately hit him with his light blast.

Pretty impressive.

#236 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I'm a big Cyclops fan, but I can at least admit his faults. I did earlier in the article thread when someone said he may be the best h2h fighter in the X-Men and I had to disagree. I find Wolverine and Psylocke far better, and Storm, even Kitty are arguably better h2h fighters. 5 Cyclops would get beat by Bruce in h2h, and he is nowhere near the stealth expert he is. But I will try and watch this debate and at least pick things out for the time being. My work schedule is heavy this week, so I'm either on in the morning or maybe an hour or two in the after or before bed. Just not a whole lot of for anything extensive.

But one thing I like about this debate is it seems to have worked and caused a split in the mods lol. Idk what DM thinks, but CB is sure on his opinion. I got mine out. And I believe I even talked to Vance about this fight not too long ago, but I forgot what he said about it.

Moderator
#237 Posted by CheeseSticks (2588 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: So batman has a plan for Cyclops, even if there's no one in the Dc Universe who has Cyclops ability? Okay lol.

Cyclops can see red in the darkness, so stealth is irrelevant. The moment Cyclops see a inch of batman he could shoot a blast that cover 50 meters in front of him. Batman cannot evade that. Cyclops won't shoot small blast all the time like you said.

#238 Posted by jashro44 (25342 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Good point. I do believe that Batman is smart enough to move out of the general radius to a safer location after seeing blasts like that though.

If batman sees it then its to late to dodge it. As I said they are light speed so thats to fast for batman to dodge in mid flight. His only hope is to dodge it before its fired but he probably wont be expecting blasts that size.

#239 Edited by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@shawnbaby said:

I'm not being arrogant because I believe that little scan you found of "Batman" beating Cyclops isn't proof of anything. Like I said... I could swap Cyclops in for someone that's tagged Batman with an energy blast just as easily. It wouldn't prove anything. It does however make the person using that scan look desperate. You can't use a scan like that and not expect it to be thrown back in your face...especially when you don't even know the context behind the scan.

Also, as far as "looking like a jerk"...your attitude isn't helping things along either. We're both guilty of being a little hostile.

As far as Batman knows...the Visor is just another part of Cyclops costume. He won't know that Cyclops can't control his blasts without it and he won't know that Cyclops won't just continue blasting anyway. Storm knew those things because She knows Scott.

Fine whatever. You're misinterpreting the point of me showing a possible way Batman can grab Cyclops' visor from a stealth attack which I was showing via that photo. It wasn't a feat, it was an example. Get that into your head because you're overlooking it.

The visor is a part of Cyclops' costume but the blasts are coming from the visor so a tactician on Batman's level is going to realise that the two are connected. I mean if Bruce pulls gadgets from his belt, Cyclops isn't going to think these things are coming out of midair. Batman knows people who shoot lasers from his eyes anyway.

I understand that he can grab the Vicor...what I'm saying is that he won't automatically know to do it. Storm did because she knows Scott.

Yes, He will realize the blasts are coming from the visor...but what does that mean exactly? He doesn't know that the Visor merely focuses the blasts...he might assume that the Visor actually causes the blast. If he takes the visor and assumes scott is powerless...he's getting a point blank blast to the face.

#240 Edited by Squalleon (4858 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: By this logic these two should just talk it out.........

Anyway my exams start tomorrow(University student) so i can't stay late too much. I will admit that when he goes into hiding Bruce has a big advantage but Cyclops' transformaton as a character these last five years make me doubt how ruthless he would be to an opponent he doesn't know anything on.

#241 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

And all this talk about taking down buildings and cars and streetlights - that doesn't create a parking lot. It creates a chaotic environment with still places to hide and that's after the smoke clears and the cars stop exploding.

#242 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: You're a uni student? Gosh you start early. Wait why have you been arguing with me when you have exams to study for? Go and study boy! (banishes from Comicvine)

I understand that he can grab the Vicor...what I'm saying is that he won't automatically know to do it. Storm did because she knows Scott.

Yes, He will realize the blasts are coming from the visor...but what does that mean exactly? He doesn't know that the Visor merely focuses the blasts...he might assume that the Visor actually causes the blast. If he takes the visor and assumes scott is powerless...he's getting a point blank blast to the face.

All too true but this is an in character fight. Will Scott risk a full on blast if Batman nicks his visor? When history has shown his unwillingness to do so, I'm hard pressed to say yes.

#243 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Yeah usually you mods have a shared mindset on these things but this time it seems you're split minded. Not to mention that this thread has 5 pages of comments already on the first day.

#244 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@squalleon: You're a uni student? Gosh you start early. Wait why have you been arguing with me when you have exams to study for? Go and study boy! (banishes from Comicvine)

@shawnbaby said:

I understand that he can grab the Vicor...what I'm saying is that he won't automatically know to do it. Storm did because she knows Scott.

Yes, He will realize the blasts are coming from the visor...but what does that mean exactly? He doesn't know that the Visor merely focuses the blasts...he might assume that the Visor actually causes the blast. If he takes the visor and assumes scott is powerless...he's getting a point blank blast to the face.

All too true but this is an in character fight. Will Scott risk a full on blast if Batman nicks his visor? When history has shown his unwillingness to do so, I'm hard pressed to say yes.

He doesn't have to do a full on blast. He may not have control over his blasts but he does have control over how wide he opens his eyes.

#245 Edited by Squalleon (4858 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@squalleon: You're a uni student? Gosh you start early. Wait why have you been arguing with me when you have exams to study for? Go and study boy! (banishes from Comicvine)

Well, it is a secondary exam for exams i missed, my courses start in one month :-)

#246 Edited by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek

I'm aware about the psychological and accuracy/rapid fire of Cyclops, I just don't see him using it against a human. Scott usually only uses his abilities like that either in last resort, when the opponent isn't truly alive, or when he knows the opponent can survive the blast (such as Wolverine, who has a healing factor).

I don't see why the power of his blast is connected to the speeds in which he fires them? Cyclops has some really good control of his powers. He can fire many optic blasts that wont kill batman if need be.

As for Dr.Light he isn't the best marksman, but he isn't a slouch. This is an example of how Batman will be smart and distract and disorientate Cyclops before moving in for the KO. Green Arrow tried misdirection on Dr.Light and yet he still accurately hit him with his light blast.

Pretty impressive.

My bad on the first part. I was under the impression that on top of the rate of fire of his optic blasts, he also had a very large focused power on the missiles to take them out, which he would never use on a human. Still, I thought the power of his blasts was more based on how wide the blast would be?

@cheesesticks said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: So batman has a plan for Cyclops, even if there's no one in the Dc Universe who has Cyclops ability? Okay lol.

Cyclops can see red in the darkness, so stealth is irrelevant. The moment Cyclops see a inch of batman he could shoot a blast that cover 50 meters in front of him. Batman cannot evade that. Cyclops won't shoot small blast all the time like you said.

No....you're missing MY point again. Batman has encountered enemies he has never seen before, but still, thanks to his genius intelligence, draws very accurate conclusions based on data he has seen in a minute at the most. Once Batman sees the first couple of optic blasts he will know it won't be safe to constantly play cat-and-mouse in a small area. Bruce will move away from that general radius after he disables nearby light-sources, while he acknowledges the specific gadgets he thinks will take down his enemy. Even if Cyclops can see red in darkness, I have already said he can evade and disappear before there eyes in daylight.

Batman has gotten the drop on Superman before. Albeit it was when he was younger and his powers plausibly weren't as honed or trained, its still more than Cyclops will ever have.

Not to mention Bruce is also younger here. His stealth skills are probably exponentially more experienced by now, if not at least his general skills.

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Good point. I do believe that Batman is smart enough to move out of the general radius to a safer location after seeing blasts like that though.

If batman sees it then its to late to dodge it. As I said they are light speed so thats to fast for batman to dodge in mid flight. His only hope is to dodge it before its fired but he probably wont be expecting blasts that size.

True. What would you weigh on the possibility of Batman moving out of the radius in general after seeing the first couple of blasts like that? Seeing how analytic The Dark Knight is, I'd say its a significant chance.

#247 Posted by arw1985 (39 posts) - - Show Bio

I got to go with Batman on this. I like Cyclops and think he can go toe-to-toe with Batman, but Batman will win this one. He has gadgets and stealth on his side.

#248 Edited by jashro44 (25342 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

My bad on the first part. I was under the impression that on top of the rate of fire of his optic blasts, he also had a very large focused power on the missiles to take them out, which he would never use on a human. Still, I thought the power of his blasts was more based on how wide the blast would be?

The wider his blasts are the less powerful they are suppose to be. All though he can control the intensity of his blasts. For example in the scan I showed you he was clearing a forest with a wide blast.

True. What would you weigh on the possibility of Batman moving out of the radius in general after seeing the first couple of blasts like that? Seeing how analytic The Dark Knight is, I'd say its a significant chance.

I agree batman will probably just avoid cyclops range after seeing the blasts the problem being though is he likely wont be conscious after the first wide blasts and he probably wont be able to dodge it.

#249 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20443 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

My bad on the first part. I was under the impression that on top of the rate of fire of his optic blasts, he also had a very large focused power on the missiles to take them out, which he would never use on a human. Still, I thought the power of his blasts was more based on how wide the blast would be?

The wider his blasts are the less powerful they are suppose to be. All though he can control the intensity of his blasts. For example in the scan I showed you he was clearing a forest with a wide blast.

True. What would you weigh on the possibility of Batman moving out of the radius in general after seeing the first couple of blasts like that? Seeing how analytic The Dark Knight is, I'd say its a significant chance.

I agree batman will probably just avoid cyclops range after seeing the blasts the problem being though is he likely wont be conscious after the first wide blasts and he probably wont be able to dodge it.

I see. From what I've seen from Scott in character, hopefully he sticks to precise optic blasts for the first volley so that Bruce has time to clear out.

#250 Edited by metalpsips (22 posts) - - Show Bio

If Batman wins this,I'll lose my faith in these Batman VS.It just cant be that Batman wins against a guy that can level a whole mountain just by lookin at its direction.