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Posted by k4tzm4n (35208 posts) 7 months, 16 days ago

Batman Battle of the Month: Batman vs. Cyclops (720 votes)

Cyclops 44%
Batman 51%
Too close to call 6%

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 30 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc..
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • This is PRE-PHOENIX FORCE Cyclops. This way he actually has control of his power.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in this poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#101 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

In a city environment I say Batman due to the large amount of cover and stealth opportunities. Plus his standard equipment includes flash bangs and smoke, which would effectively disorient cyclops rendering him unable to aim.

#102 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@knightfall225: he only dodged the omega beam in a cartoon. He has never done it in canon.

I'm fairly sure he has done it in comics at a time, but it was incredibly stupid.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Cyclops optic blasts have hit Wolverine (who has superhuman speed and reflexes), and have enough range to level mountains. I agree that Batman should win, but that's due to an in character Cyclops not releasing the full power of his optic blasts at first, allowing Bruce to utilize stealth and get in close to dominate Slim in hand to hand combat, but if this becomes a contest as to if Batman can dodge Cyclops full powered optic blasts, Batman will be obliterated.

While that is true, Batman has dodged more deadly projectiles pure and simple. Whether Wolverine, who statistically would have better reaction speeds and such, does not have as much feats to back it up. I'd go as far to say that Batman has been more impressive in that area, since he is merely a human and writers emphasize on that to make his reaction speed feats very effective. Wolverine, on the other hand, writers act like his reaction speeds and other powers are a given, so they just let him soak up bullets and other attacks to emphasize on his durability. I guarantee that if a writer wanted to show the agility side of Logan, he would easily dodge all of Cyclop's optic blasts like Batman would. Pure and simple is the fact that writers show Batman's evasive side, while writers show Wolverine's durable/feral side.

#103 Posted by darkbeam (1781 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops in a epic stomp

#104 Posted by kid Apollo (697 posts) - - Show Bio

cyke takes off the visor and its all over for bats. the juggernaut can barely stand up to the ful force of the optic blast, so theres no way bats could take it off the chin

#105 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

Location sure does give Bats an edge and even if it's not populated Cyclops is not likely to use his full blast against a human.

As long as Bats stick to stealth and gadgets I can see him taking this one, but if he tries to get in close and fight h2h a nice laser in the face is waiting for him.

#106 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: Give me some scans like that but with current Cyclops.

#107 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii: Cyclops can wide his blasts to destroy whole buildings, he doesn't have to target just Batman.
Your argument is invalid from the moment you brought AvX to the table since this is Pre phoenix Force Cyclops.
He doesn't have to ricochet anything this whole battle is poorly set since the area is unpopulated and Cyclops doesn't have to worry about innocent lives.

#108 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: Give me some scans like that but with current Cyclops.

This fight isn't current Cyclops and current Cyclops can't even control his powers.

#109 Edited by THEOCITYLEGEND (1098 posts) - - Show Bio

If Batman takes this I will lose any respect i have for Bat-fans.

I will probably post why Cyclops will win a bit later....

You are basically saying "anyone who has a different opinion than me is a moron."

#110 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

cyke takes off the visor and its all over for bats. the juggernaut can barely stand up to the ful force of the optic blast, so theres no way bats could take it off the chin

In character I don't see Cyclops taking off his visor against a human opponent.

#111 Posted by Wolverine08 (26546 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Logan does have the reaction feats to back it up, but that's for another day and another argument. I do agree with you that Batman takes this for the aforementioned reasons I stated above.

#112 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: Give me some scans like that but with current Cyclops.

But this fight is not with current Cyclops this is a battle with Cyclops Pre AvX. And if you mean more recent there are mixed in with the others.
READ THE DESCRIPTION OF THE BATTLE (The capital letters is for others to see also.)

#113 Edited by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Wolverine is known to just take a hit he can easily dodge, it's part of his psyche - he's a glutton for punishment, literally. So, you'll have to show me Scott hit someone with agility who doesn't want to get hit.

#114 Posted by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

A shopped-up scan proves nothing but how desperate you are to "prove" Batman wins. I could do the same thing with a Scan of Batman getting nailed by someone else.

I said it's a different guy. I was using it as an example of how Batman could get ahead of Cyclops. Do stop embarrassing yourself, it doesn't become you very well and shows you up.

@chibio said:

I am not sure if I misunderstood you, or if you don't know Cyclops very well, but taking his visor off doesn't negate his optic blast. The visor is only there, because he otherwise he can't keep the optic blast back. Without glasses he would be heat visioning through the area 24/7, so taking the visor off would be the worst thing Batman could do. I think that Cyclops would win. He has the strength, agility and durability to hold his own and his damage output without the visor is insane. He would level everything in his sight, but that would be out of character for him, so I wouldn't expect him to use such an extreme approach. I'm still sure that Cyclops can 'watch faster' than Batman can move with all of his kevlar and gagdets, which should slow him down and give Cyclops the speed advantage. Cyclops optic blast is also not only heat, but concussive force as well, which would catapult Batman back, even if he hides behind something.

Strength, speed and agility to take on the peak human Batman? I hardly think so. Without the visor, Cyclops would keep his eyes closed and that allows Batman to KO him quickly and easily. Cyclops isn't catapulting Batman if he can only hit the places Batman takes cover from.

@squalleon Don't show yourself up, you're losing my respect fast for silly comments like that. The fact is that unless Cyclops takes Batman out straight away, he'll get into cover and from there he can do a plethora of things. Sneak up on Cyclops, throw a smoke grenade down and KO him throw multiple batarangs and concussion grenades etc, the possibilities go on. Batman has way more of a chance of using the environment to his edge than Cyclops does.

#115 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon said:

If Batman takes this I will lose any respect i have for Bat-fans.

I will probably post why Cyclops will win a bit later....

You are basically saying "anyone who has a different opinion than me is a moron."

Yes. Sounds harsh but this battle is set completely in Cyclops favor since it is an unpopulated city. Cyclops could just remove his visor and be done with it.
Or the moment Batman gets near(or in the same building as) him, kill him with a Wide Blast to make sure he won't miss. Cyclops has shown the ability to stay in the air by hitting the ground with his force blasts so he can make sure that he can get out of the building.

#116 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek said:

@squalleon: Give me some scans like that but with current Cyclops.

But this fight is not with current Cyclops this is a battle with Cyclops Pre AvX. And if you mean more recent there are mixed in with the others.

READ THE DESCRIPTION OF THE BATTLE

(The capital letters is for others to see also.)

That's not what I meant. I am aware of those rules but I need more current feats. Some of those feats are pretty outdated and are questionable. From what I have read recently Cyclops isn't that impressive.

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek:

Logan does have the reaction feats to back it up, but that's for another day and another argument. I do agree with you that Batman takes this for the aforementioned reasons I stated above.

I do know that Logan has reaction feats, but that is with different writers who DID decide to show Logan's agility side. At least we agree that Batman should win this encounter :)

#117 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon said:

If Batman takes this I will lose any respect i have for Bat-fans.

I will probably post why Cyclops will win a bit later....

You are basically saying "anyone who has a different opinion than me is a moron."

Yes. Sounds harsh but this battle is set completely in Cyclops favor since it is an unpopulated city. Cyclops could just remove his visor and be done with it.
Or the moment Batman gets near(or in the same building as) him, kill him with a Wide Blast to make sure he won't miss. Cyclops has shown the ability to stay in the air by hitting the ground with his force blasts so he can make sure that he can get out of the building.

#118 Posted by tikhunt (676 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, here's the deal. Cyclops I have very little info on but I will do my best to give a winning argument. As I understand it Cyclops' optic beam is not laser, it doesn't burn, it just feels like a strong punch. Batman has been seen being beaten with hammers without his suit on and still survive. In the beginning of AvX Cyclops attacked Captain America, we can see him unleashing his powers to almost it's fullest, Cap protects himself with a shield. Because he can use this shield for shielding. Batman doesn't have that, he wears a strong suit but wouldn't protect him. Though I have seen that Batman's acrobatic abilities exceeds those of Cap's, which makes me believe Batman would surely be able to dodge the blast. Batman is very cunning, after a while of dodging and attempts to overcome Cyclops' ability he can figure out the visor is what keeps the blast in place. If Batman acts quick he can use a batarang and knock the visor off and Cyclops' fighting skills would be useless.

In my opinion Batman wins this. But I might have written this without looking at all the facts.

1. The optic blasts are strong enough to put holes in mountains which is a great deal stronger than a hammer.

2. The blasts are very fast, much faster than gun fire and considering that if he can see you he can hit you it would be fairly difficult to not be hit by it and the blast also covers his entire field of vision.

3. Cyclops would be able to easily shoot down a batarang and hit the guy who threw it with relative ease.

#119 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: The scans of batman dodging bullets from deadshot are questionable given deadshots character. Deadshot tends to pull his shots around batman because he actually doesn't want Bruce dead. He has shot him before but thats usually with either hollow points, when he is using a coin instead of a bullet, or when he knows batman has protective gear on.

As for dodging the omega beams, are you referring to the encounter where batman shot darkseid before the omega beams touched him? IIRC it was apart Darkseids plan to get shot (not 100% sure about that admittedly) and he was severely weakened.

@lvenger

He's been beaten by much lesser foes than Batman level characters. A depowered Storm outfought him remember and took off his visor so he couldn't unleash a blast. And Batman's dodged bullets and other energy projections with ease too so I still se it as unlikely for him to be tagged by Cyclops in a city like environment with cover.

The problem with the argument that cyclops has lost to less then batman is the reverse is also true. Cyclops has also handled tougher then batman and batman also has been tagged by less then cyclops. As far as bullet dodging goes keep in mind cyclops optic blasts are beams of light (so they are faster then bullets) and he is also a decent marksmen as well.

I honestly think this is too close to call in this setup I just feel Scott is being a bit underestimated. @god_spawn I think you need to get over here...

#120 Posted by Wolverine08 (26546 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii:

He's tag Captain America before with the optic blasts.

#121 Edited by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: I'm referring to his actions and decisions prior to gaining the Phoenix Force - which ultimately led to that. He was bull-headed, simple-minded and arrogant - not great qualities for a leader.

#122 Edited by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon said:

@theocitylegend said:

@squalleon said:

If Batman takes this I will lose any respect i have for Bat-fans.

I will probably post why Cyclops will win a bit later....

You are basically saying "anyone who has a different opinion than me is a moron."

Yes. Sounds harsh but this battle is set completely in Cyclops favor since it is an unpopulated city. Cyclops could just remove his visor and be done with it.

He's in character. Batman isn't a robot or anything like that. Cyclops will keep his visor on.

Only stressing this because people keep bringing it up like it's a valid argument.

#123 Posted by Mezmero (858 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Batman takes this. Scott has become an exceptional tactician over the years but one on one fights have never been his forte without massive amounts of collateral damage. Also the actual lethality of optic blasts has been so inconsistent for decades. Most of the time it hits someone it just appears to push them back. Batman's handled injuries a lot more severe than being pushed into a solid surface by a ranged attack and has still come out on top. I feel that Scott loses most of his effectiveness without the support of a team which is why X-Men has been a team since forever. While he may provide a solid challenge against brute force combatants I personally think he's at a disadvantage when it comes to opponents with top notch agility feats.

Admit it Cyclops. Batman's got moves.

#124 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Batman is winning in a battle in an unpopulated city!
Batman doesn't have any advantage here, Cyclops can blast him straight away with a wide blast and end this battle without the fear of hurting innocents.
Look i know i came out wrong but this is what i believe, Batman has the same chances of beating Cyclops here and the same chances of beating Cyclops in the desert.

#125 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: But my argument hold true with Cap as well - has he ever tagged Cap without the Shield?

#126 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Batman is winning in a battle in an unpopulated city!

Batman doesn't have any advantage here, Cyclops can blast him straight away with a wide blast and end this battle without the fear of hurting innocents.

Look i know i came out wrong but this is what i believe, Batman has the same chances of beating Cyclops here and the same chances of beating Cyclops in the desert.

#127 Edited by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I was using it as an example of Cyclops being taken down by someone who's not as skilled as Batman. There's a case of Deadpool being a member of the X-Men or trying to join the X-Men and Cyclops got a tad pi$$ed with Deadpool but was taken down by another martial artist who was with Deadpool. Can someone confirm this because I can't find the scan of Cyclops getting taken out with a pressure point attack for the life of me.

Oh and Batman has dodged light projection attacks before. See earlier pages for the proof of that. They're New 52 feats btw.

#128 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

Can anyone tell me what the score is in the poll before I vote?

#129 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio
#131 Posted by MisterWhisper (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

Even though this should be a close fight, with a slight edge going to Scott. I still predict Batman will win by at least 20%.

Popularity will win over logic every day of the week.

#132 Posted by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: What? This is an in character fight. You should take your own advice and read the OP before making silly comments like this. Batman's not a robot and Cyclops doesn't go for the kill instantly. That will be all Bruce needs to take an edge in taking out Cyclops. The city's cover plays into his advantage. Cyclops is NOT using a wide blast straight away. It's not in character for him to do that and you'd be foolish to think otherwise

@jashro44: 56% to Batman and 39% to Cyclops.

#133 Edited by kingmark14 (761 posts) - - Show Bio

Quite honestly, I can't see cyclops winning this, unless he's got luck that defies logic. For one cyclops has black belts in only two martial arts. Bats is an expert on pretty much every style on the planet. That's just combat wise. Cyclops might have very powerful blasts, but that won't mean diddley squat if he can't get batman, who has ninja like speed. All in all, batman bat-stomps. That's just my two cents.

#134 Posted by flazam (2439 posts) - - Show Bio
#135 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio
#136 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19489 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: The scans of batman dodging bullets from deadshot are questionable given deadshots character. Deadshot tends to pull his shots around batman because he actually doesn't want Bruce dead. He has shot him before but thats usually with either hollow points, when he is using a coin instead of a bullet, or when he knows batman has protective gear on.

Like I said, Batman knows that Deadshot pulls his shots. Still, I'd argue to say that Deadshot still aims for non-lethal shots, but Batman is agile and swift enough to dodge even those. I am fully aware of Deadshot's attitude against Bruce though.


As for dodging the omega beams, are you referring to the encounter where batman shot darkseid before the omega beams touched him? IIRC it was apart Darkseids plan to get shot (not 100% sure about that admittedly) and he was severely weakened.

I believe I was referring to that encounter, but I can't help but feel I've seen another time where Batman has dodged the Omega Beams before. All PIS/WIS of course. Nonetheless all this babble about Batman dodging the Omega Beams is irrelevant and should be discarded as bad writing.

#137 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@squalleon: He could've done that one the Blue Area of The Moon when we was facing the Shi'ar Imperial Guard ("Jean, get behind me".). He could've done that against the Avengers. ("X-Men, get behind me."). It's not in his character to do that when it matters, he wouldn't do it if he doesn't think he needs to as he doesn't know what Batman is capable of yet. And by the time he figures it out, it'll be too late.

#138 Posted by munkieKONG (89 posts) - - Show Bio

Here are the facts, and or most likely scenarios, as I see them:

Batman clearly wins a hand to hand fight. This is assuming he avoids point blank optic blasts which is likely.

Cyclops clearly wins a medium to long distance fight. I'd say Batman has "medium" range with his batarangs and etc, but Scott's ability to shoot down small projectiles has been part of his training since day one of the X-men. The likelihood of Batman landing a worthwhile batarang hit is about on par with the likelihood of Cyclops landing a pointblank optic blast.

Batman will be caught off guard by the first optic blast. The "rules" say nothing about pre-existing knowledge so I assume there is none. Bruce will have no logical reason to assume that because Cyclops has weird glasses on that his eyes can produce optic energy blasts. That's just ridiculous.

Batman will likely have an opportunity to get the jump on Cyclops, but will not take advantage of it. Cyclops isn't going to be robbing a bank, or mugging somebody. Cyclops doesn't do that. Unless he's in the middle of committing a crime, Batman will not take Scott down with a stealth attack before making his presence known and assessing that a fight is to follow. The fight is going to start with both characters aware of the other's presence and hostile intentions, therefore, any stealth advantage Batman wants to use will have to be regained after giving up his position. This is certainly possible, so all I'm really saying here is that there is no possibility of Scott being taken out immediately from the shadows with no fight.

Neither Cyclops or Batman will consistently (in a best of 10 scenario) be able to out maneuver the other tactically. Batman is clearly seen as an excellent tactician and quick problem solver, but Scott is one of the greatest tactical minds in the Marvel Universe. That's pretty much all he does. He sits back and watches the chess pieces that are his various field teams, keeps them in communication, sends in new members, retrieves those that no longer need be in battle, and analyzes the best way to take down whatever ridiculous threat the X-men are facing at that moment in time. Having said that, a big blow to Cyclops' tactical prowess will be that he is all alone in this fight, but he still knows battle movements, enemy analysis, likely weak points, and zones of attack. After all of this, I'm going to call the tactical debate a complete draw.

So the outcome will really come down to whether Batman can successfully reattain his stealth advantage and fool Cyclops long enough to close to melee distance. The sheer force behind Cyclops' blasts should honestly be enough that a single blast with a solid connection is enough to win. Even if the first blast does not incapacitate Batman (which is entirely possible given his impressive armor), he will surely be stunned long enough for a series of followups. Also possible is that Batman is buried in rubble from a near miss, holding him steady long enough for a followup blast.

Honestly, my vote was that the fight was too close to call, but with Batman almost surely being caught off guard by the first optic blast, and the above likelihood of a single connecting blast being enough to, if not flat out win itself, set up the win, I think Cyclops will actually take the edge.

#139 Posted by katayev (15 posts) - - Show Bio

@bunkitz: One gadget that Batman tends to drop immediately is smoke bomb. Can't hit what you can't see especially considering it is at night.

#140 Posted by Squalleon (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@squalleon: What? This is an in character fight. You should take your own advice and read the OP before making silly comments like this. Batman's not a robot and Cyclops doesn't go for the kill instantly. That will be all Bruce needs to take an edge in taking out Cyclops. The city's cover plays into his advantage. Cyclops is NOT using a wide blast straight away. It's not in character for him to do that and you'd be foolish to think otherwise

@jashro44: 56% to Batman and 39% to Cyclops.

Cyclops has killed before and he will kill again if he needs to survive. Straight away might not but this is an unpopulated area he can do it whenever he wants without fear of hurting innocents.
Anyway i am tired of defending Cyclops that's why i don't like battles in the first place, they make me angry.
In the end popularity will always win over logic.

#141 Posted by flazam (2439 posts) - - Show Bio
#142 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkbeam: I could say Bat-haters always de-power him.

#143 Posted by katayev (15 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not familiar with extended Cyclops mythology. Does he have to touch his glasses to shoot?

#144 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@flazam said:

@decoyelite: Why Not?

Because just look at almost every single one of Midnighter's appearances.

#145 Posted by CheeseSticks (2263 posts) - - Show Bio

This is crazy, Cyclops should take this. He only has to take out his visor and blow everything away. He has done it with morals on. Like @squalleon said, this is an unpopulated city, so Cyke has no restriction.

I'm also a Batman fanboy, but common, Cyclops take this.

#146 Posted by Michael_Moran (86 posts) - - Show Bio

I would like to see batman vs. Nightcrawler

#147 Edited by MisterWhisper (1664 posts) - - Show Bio

@katayev:

Depends on the writer and the visor he is using.

He does not have to, but he does have more fine control if he does.

#148 Posted by Lvenger (16017 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops has killed before and he will kill again if he needs to survive.

Straight away might not but this is an unpopulated area he can do it whenever he wants without fear of hurting innocents.

Anyway i am tired of defending Cyclops that's why i don't like battles in the first place, they make me angry.

In the end popularity will always win over logic.

I'm not disagreeing with this. But name me one instance of Cyclops instantly killing an enemy. Go on, think of one occasion. Cyclops won't use a full out optic blast straight away on Batman. Not even he's that killer minded. And I assure you, my reasons for thinking Batman wins are purely logical. I've given them time and time again on here.

#149 Edited by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@squalleon: What? This is an in character fight. You should take your own advice and read the OP before making silly comments like this. Batman's not a robot and Cyclops doesn't go for the kill instantly. That will be all Bruce needs to take an edge in taking out Cyclops. The city's cover plays into his advantage. Cyclops is NOT using a wide blast straight away. It's not in character for him to do that and you'd be foolish to think otherwise

@jashro44: 56% to Batman and 39% to Cyclops.

Cyclops

has killed before and he will kill again if he needs to survive.

Straight away might not but this is an unpopulated area he can do it whenever he wants without fear of hurting innocents.

Anyway i am tired of defending Cyclops that's why i don't like battles in the first place, they make me angry.

In the end popularity will always win over logic.

So your argument is that because he's killed at some point before he'll auto go for murder against a guy he's never fought before?

Despite it being completely out of character for him to go all out at the start of a fight against a person he knows nothing about.

#150 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@katayev said:

I am not familiar with extended Cyclops mythology. Does he have to touch his glasses to shoot?

IIRC, no. He has like a little thing in his hand that he can hit to active his visor. Although I may be thinking of the Ultimate version.