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Posted by k4tzm4n (40826 posts) 11 months, 27 days ago

Poll: Batman Battle of the Month: Batman vs. Cyclops (721 votes)

Cyclops 44%
Batman 50%
Too close to call 6%

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character.
  • This is a random encounter.
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 30 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc..
  • All characters have standard gear.
  • This is PRE-PHOENIX FORCE Cyclops. This way he actually has control of his power.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • My extended thoughts on the match.
  • A Viner Argument in favor of the poll's winner (can't include scans and must be in this poll thread).
  • Extra thoughts from other Comic Vine staffers.
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.

Feel free to make future match suggestions in the comments below or via Gregg's Twitter page.

#501 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Guys, this has been by FAR the best Battle of the Week. Thanks to everyone who took the time to present their reasoning or read through this novel of a thread.

And some people thought Batman Battles articles couldn't work.

#502 Posted by robertloucksjr (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@106me: How is it out of character for Batman to realise "Hmm this guy's shooting lasers out of his eyes. Maybe it has something to do with that visor he's wearing and I should do something about it?" He wouldn't be one of comic book's best strategists if he didn't think that the guy shooting lasers from his eyes had a connection with his visor. I mean it's fairly certain that an in character Batman would realise that Scott's visor is connected to his optic blasts. Only a fool would think otherwise and strategies have been given on here for how Batman can take advantage of that knowledge. Your conjecture is also speculation I might add.

Removing Cyclop's Visor or forcing him to remove his visor is a bad idea.

#503 Edited by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me said:

@lvenger: But that's all speculation though. We can't say for certain if batman would pick it up or not. That's why I specifically stated "in-character", meaning Batman's not going to spam something like crazy or do something else out of character.

"Master Detective: He is widely considered as the World's Greatest Detective, capable of observation, forensic investigation, and inductive and deductive reasoning of the highest caliber. Human intuition is an unlearnable trait and one of Batman's most effective tools. Given any mystery, he can arrive at the correct conclusions with a fraction of the data"

#504 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n The only thing I would change is to drop the poll aspect. Polls turn these things into popularity contests. Look at the Marvel vs DC Battles: Wolverine beat Lobo, Storm beat Wonder Woman, and Spider-Man beat Superboy...all because that's who the votes favoured.

At the very least I would suggest not creating the poll until after the debate period is over...but even then you'll get people that vote for their favourite character instead of looking at the battle objectively. If more people were truly objective about the battle I honestly believe the "too close to call" numbers would be a lot higher.

#505 Edited by fivestarga (239 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you.

It's sad that these are nothing more than popularity contests.

Batman, being the most popular "super" hero, will win 99% of these so-called "battles" when based on fan voting, if for no other reason than "Does Batman Always Win????"

Fanboys say...? Yes!!!

There is not a single batfan who would vote against Batman, if he is awarded prep time. "He's a genius detective!" "He prepares for all contingencies!" "He's super rich and has unlimited resources!" "Batman is better than everyone and I love him!!!1!!11!"

Honestly, what a joke.

One punch from Supes : dead (no BS, one _real_ punch ~ as in, an Earth-shattering punch)

Not to mention MM, WW, GL, Flash, etc. (blah blah contingency plans and all that, wtf? Does 'random encounter' mean anything to you?)

One encounter with Bane, a low-level villain compared to those of many other superpowered characters : broken back (lucky to have survived)

One (Earth-shattering) punch from Hulk : dead

ANYthing from Prof X or another telepath : done

One Wolvie claw : dead

One Optic Blast : dead

In closing, Batman will win the vote. Some over-zealous fan will (attempt to) explain away the fact that, while Bats lacks superpowers, he will still be able to buy his way out of defeat. Batman wins the popular vote again! Congratulations; you have proven the idiocy of the masses.

#506 Posted by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel people are voting for Cyclops out of Bat-hate or X-Love - because you really have to stretch Scott's abilities (plural) to account for the lopsided discrepancy between him and Batman. So it goes both ways.

#507 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii said:

I feel people are voting for Cyclops out of Bat-hate or X-Love - because you really have to stretch Scott's abilities (plural) to account for the lopsided discrepancy between him and Batman. So it goes both ways.

And it's posts like this that aren't helping the situation.

Moderator
#508 Edited by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@jack_vii said:

I feel people are voting for Cyclops out of Bat-hate or X-Love - because you really have to stretch Scott's abilities (plural) to account for the lopsided discrepancy between him and Batman. So it goes both ways.

And it's posts like this that aren't helping the situation.

If this were, say, Batman vs Wolverine, or Daredevil, or John 117, or Captain America, or Gambit, or Psylocke you can chalk up anyone calling those fights anything remotely close to a stomp in Batman's favor as fanboy-ism. But in this contest that's not the case. There are just in some fights, at least on paper, Batman clearly has the upper-hand. Given the environment, the skill sets and skill levels this is clearly a one-sided contest.

#509 Edited by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii said:

I feel people are voting for Cyclops out of Bat-hate or X-Love - because you really have to stretch Scott's abilities (plural) to account for the lopsided discrepancy between him and Batman. So it goes both ways.

Yeah, because Batman would never get the benefit of fanboy favouritism...

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/who-would-win-in-a-fight-1494418/#16

44% of people voted that Batman would beat Superman in a fight.

Go ahead and try to tell me the results would be the same if it were Superman vs Cyclops.

#510 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20155 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Guys, this has been by FAR the best Battle of the Week. Thanks to everyone who took the time to present their reasoning or read through this novel of a thread.

No problem k4tz!

#511 Edited by The_Absolute (892 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii said:

I feel people are voting for Cyclops out of Bat-hate or X-Love - because you really have to stretch Scott's abilities (plural) to account for the lopsided discrepancy between him and Batman. So it goes both ways.

Yeah, because Batman would never get the benefit of fanboy favouritism...

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/who-would-win-in-a-fight-1494418/#16

44% of people voted that Batman would beat Superman in a fight.

Go ahead and try to tell me the results would be the same if it were Superman vs Cyclops.

Every character gets their respective fanboy favoritism, though. Batman just happens to have a lot more fans. Very few fanboys or haters of any character have a tough time being objective. That's the only way you can honestly explain Cyclops' 43% in this fight.

#512 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii: Says you. I won't disagree with the notion that there are people saying Batman stomps or Cyclops stomps, and saying so because they are anti-Batman or just big X-fans. But to completely denote that there hasn't been any solid debating from both sides would be ludicrous. To sum it up to just X-loving or anti Batman is worse when they've given both characters their fair share of credit and have made valid cases for said characters.

Moderator
#513 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii said:

@shawnbaby said:

@jack_vii said:

I feel people are voting for Cyclops out of Bat-hate or X-Love - because you really have to stretch Scott's abilities (plural) to account for the lopsided discrepancy between him and Batman. So it goes both ways.

Yeah, because Batman would never get the benefit of fanboy favouritism...

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/who-would-win-in-a-fight-1494418/#16

44% of people voted that Batman would beat Superman in a fight.

Go ahead and try to tell me the results would be the same if it were Superman vs Cyclops.

Every character gets their respective fanboy favoritism, though. Batman just happens to have a lot more fans. Very few fanboys or haters of any character have a tough time being objective. That's the only way you can honestly explain Cyclops' 43% in this fight.

Anyone who says either of these guys stomps the other in any situation is being a fanboy. Cyclops deserves the 43% he's been given in this fight and more.

#514 Posted by laflux (15405 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Guys, this has been by FAR the best Battle of the Week. Thanks to everyone who took the time to present their reasoning or read through this novel of a thread.

No problem k4tz!

I don't know, in terms of response, this has been a fantastic thread, and there has been some great arguments on both sides. But things have got heated at times if I'm being honest, and I would say the arguments made in Heroes for Hire vs the Spiders were just a bit more conclusive.

#515 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: What I find funnier is the fact that in terms of just pure popularity, Cyclops vs Batman is just not comparable. Far more people like Batman. Unless you go on that X-Men board, majority of people are going to like Batman more. It's either that Batman got them into comics because of his exposure, or that A LOT of people don't like Cyclops. I've easily seen more people say Cyclops is a douchebag rather than actually like him as a character. And to be honest, even some Cyke haters have voted for him here after talking with users in the past. I don't think users like Jashro and Wolverine08 are biased despite feeling like Cyclops is being underestimated and Wolverine08 has expressed his dislike for Summers to me on many occasions. Just like I don't think CB and SuperSoldier are being biased here because the cases they made work. Even you acknowledged their cases or similar points made in favor of Bats are able to work, but you don't see it taking a majority let alone a stomp. You've always been very critical and blunt in your points, but never biased.

Moderator
#516 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: What I find funnier is the fact that in terms of just pure popularity, Cyclops vs Batman is just not comparable. Far more people like Batman. Unless you go on that X-Men board, majority of people are going to like Batman more. It's either that Batman got them into comics because of his exposure, or that A LOT of people don't like Cyclops. I've easily seen more people say Cyclops is a douchebag rather than actually like him as a character. And to be honest, even some Cyke haters have voted for him here after talking with users in the past. I don't think users like Jashro and Wolverine08 are biased despite feeling like Cyclops is being underestimated and Wolverine08 has expressed his dislike for Summers to me on many occasions. Just like I don't think CB and SuperSoldier are being biased here because the cases they made work. Even you acknowledged their cases or similar points made in favor of Bats are able to work, but you don't see it taking a majority let alone a stomp. You've always been very critical and blunt in your points, but never biased.

I just think a lot of these battles have so much potential to sway either way depending on a multitude of little factors that a truly 100% objective poll would see a much higher percentage fall into the "Too Close to Call" category. But it's always hard to be 100% objective. I know I struggle with it myself all the time. There's just always that part of me that wants to give "my guy" that extra 1 or 2 rounds out of 10. That's why good arguments from the other side are so important...it provides a counter to that. Supersoldier, CB, YNCBG, and a few others persuaded me from thinking Cyclops takes a solid majority to a slight one.

That's why I think the poll shouldn't be put up until after the arguments have been made...because I feel there's a lot of people like me that read some of these arguments and maybe adjusted their point of view a bit. Anyone who may have initially voted one way or the other might, after reading some of the really great arguments here, been swayed to the middle or possibly even over to the other side.

#517 Posted by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#518 Posted by Schmalzel (339 posts) - - Show Bio

I knew Batman would lead in the vote (fan favorite and personally one of my favorite characters second to Spidey) with no prep though I can see Cyclops taking 6/10 possibly 7, very good tactically, and on his feet, and his optic blasts are very powerful.

#519 Posted by k4tzm4n (40826 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: If I had the ability to add a poll at a later date to a pre-existing thread, I'd do it. But, I'd instead have to create an all-new thread and then it's just a cluster. Besides, I blatantly say in the OP that people don't need to vote and I actually recommending doing research/reading the debate before voting. I'm sure people who vote without giving a damn wouldn't really bother to read if the poll was delayed, anyway.

@fivestarga: You agree with someone who clearly didn't read the rules?

Staff
#520 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@shawnbaby: If I had the ability to add a poll at a later date to a pre-existing thread, I'd do it. But, I'd instead have to create an all-new thread and then it's just a cluster. Besides, I blatantly say in the OP that people don't need to vote and I actually recommending doing research/reading the debate before voting. I'm sure people who vote without giving a damn wouldn't really bother to read if the poll was delayed, anyway.

True that.

#521 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20155 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@shawnbaby: If I had the ability to add a poll at a later date to a pre-existing thread, I'd do it. But, I'd instead have to create an all-new thread and then it's just a cluster. Besides, I blatantly say in the OP that people don't need to vote and I actually recommending doing research/reading the debate before voting. I'm sure people who vote without giving a damn wouldn't really bother to read if the poll was delayed, anyway.

True that.

Sadly.

#522 Posted by TheBlackHood (321 posts) - - Show Bio

It's sad that these are nothing more than popularity contests.

Batman, being the most popular "super" hero, will win 99% of these so-called "battles" when based on fan voting, if for no other reason than "Does Batman Always Win????"

Fanboys say...? Yes!!!

There is not a single batfan who would vote against Batman, if he is awarded prep time. "He's a genius detective!" "He prepares for all contingencies!" "He's super rich and has unlimited resources!" "Batman is better than everyone and I love him!!!1!!11!"

Honestly, what a joke.

One punch from Supes : dead (no BS, one _real_ punch ~ as in, an Earth-shattering punch)

Not to mention MM, WW, GL, Flash, etc. (blah blah contingency plans and all that, wtf? Does 'random encounter' mean anything to you?)

One encounter with Bane, a low-level villain compared to those of many other superpowered characters : broken back (lucky to have survived)

One (Earth-shattering) punch from Hulk : dead

ANYthing from Prof X or another telepath : done

One Wolvie claw : dead

One Optic Blast : dead

In closing, Batman will win the vote. Some over-zealous fan will (attempt to) explain away the fact that, while Bats lacks superpowers, he will still be able to buy his way out of defeat. Batman wins the popular vote again! Congratulations; you have proven the idiocy of the masses.

Oh yeah; and you clearly aren't a Marvel fanboy with all your examples. Your argument loses some momentum when you try to use Bane and the Knightfall story as an example of Batman being week. Anyone familiar with the story knows the context of that fight had more to do with the days on end that Batman was fighting non-stop. Batman has fought Bane numerous times since and routinely stomps him. The Bane example is just as bad as the powerless Storm example since Cyclops was distracted by other worries and underestimated his opponent. As a MAJOR fan of both characters (Uncanny X-men is one of the only Marvel titles I still read) I think the fight would be extremely close. However, due to Cyclops having only ever worked in a team environment; I went with the character who had more solo fighting experience.

#523 Posted by Wolverine08 (41141 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Haha, I really don't hate Cyke now. I recently read a couple of issues of Brian Michael Bendis's Uncanny X-Men, and I admired Cyclops dedication to mutants. He's not a major favorite of mine, but he is a pretty good character. But whether we like Cyclops or not isn't what matters here. I think based on what I've read about Cyke's skills, the threat he poses to Batman is being underrated here.

Online
#524 Edited by Andy Steven Summers (5230 posts) - - Show Bio

I missed this debate? >_>

Well for the record I believe the fight can go either way, depending on several factors. But overall Cyclops should win unless things are stacked in Batman's favor.

Online
#525 Edited by God_Spawn (37718 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: My mistake then. Things changed in a short amount of time lol. But, you did say he isn't a major favorite of yours, and my point still stands that he isn't a favorite of yours., and you came into this debating for him. You weren't biased.

Moderator
#526 Posted by .Spider-man. (3940 posts) - - Show Bio

@ I feel Cyclops has enough power and accuracy feats on his side to say he can one-two Batman himself. He just "hits" a lot harder.

That line there pretty much sums things up.

#527 Posted by royers13 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

Dang it, I already posted, but yes, depowered storm did take on cyclops and, kind of win. Then again, depowered Cyclops outmaneuvered and beat all of the x-men through strategy. Storm only beat him because he refused to uncover his eyes after she took away his visor. Rather than being a teammate, this is a random encounter that became battle. Cyclops, before avx, could hit a pool ball without visor to hit every ball in pocket in one shot. Therefore, random encounter and not knowing what kind of danger batman is, he would be willing to hit him visor or no.

#528 Posted by royers13 (46 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_vii: Captain America is a super soldier. He was only quick enough to lift his shield, made of vibranium that absorbs enough energy to make a hit from Thor's hammer seem like nothing and yet was still knocked back about 20 yards.Batman is not on the same physical or reflexive level of Cap.

#529 Posted by Lvenger (19320 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr: No because in character, Cyclops won't let himself open his eyes and blast the **** out of Batman. This is all the time Bruce needs to KO him.