#1 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

versus all earthly superbeings

The two of them meet in secret and decide the superheroes have gotten out of hand. They begin formulating plans, acquiring items they deem necessary,and building the things that cannot buy all with the intent of KILLING all of the superpowered beings on the earth. They scheme in secret for 10 years. After their 10 years of planning they attack! Do they succeed in killing off everyone?

#2 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"With 10 years? Hell yeah."

Elaborate, how do you see them doing it? I know it's too grand to go into detail on beating everyone, but give me some examples

#3 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

With 10 years? Hell yeah.

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#4 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Most likely they'll succeed. But there's a chance they won't. succeed.

#5 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see them achieving it

#6 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Buck, how do you seem them beating Flash? What do you see them coming up with to take out J'onnz

#7 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

are you emlinating the chance of some other extremely smart person discovering what they are doing over those ten years?

#8 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

I think a large part of their plan would be not to attack right away, but to make the heroes of Earth turn on each other. It's been done before and it's a good strategy. They won't have to fight nearly as many people once the heroes start taking each other out. Since most heroes won't kill though, there'd have to a back up, like getting powerful heroes under their control. Max Lord hypnotized Superman over a period of 10 years, I'm sure they could invent something to reprogram the best heroes and get them working for them until they weren't needed. They'd also have the benefit of extra time thanks to time travel devices (some of which can be used to bring people from other points in time and brainwash them, giving them more firepower). Even without superhero help, both men know the weaknesses (physical, mental and emotional) of the people on their Earths, and they also have their trust, which gives them another edge. I don't see them failing unless some other supergenius catches on, but they'd probably plan for that too.

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#9 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

I say yes, yes they can. There are ways of beating the Flash, devices and what not. Hell I bet Batman has a way to take out the Flash right now.

#10 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

i thought they might use some of the villains. some of the villains should have killed the heroes they faced before. if the villains had batman and black panther plannnig for them then the heroes would start falling and some of the villains too.

then they could start turning the rest of the villains against each other while working to eliminate the heroes in accidents that are tailored to their powers.

but i doubt they could pull it off.

#11 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#12 Posted by zero edge (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

After Tower of Babel and a 10 year planning... yeah I see them succeeding.

#13 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

zero edge says:

"After Tower of Babel and a 10 year planning... yeah I see them succeeding."

not just against all heroes but against all superpowered beings and you still see them succeeding? with all of the little things that could go wrong...

#14 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

i would like to say yes but i have to say no

#15 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Spiderman 2099 says:

"i would like to say yes but i have to say no"

then it's just the two of us spidey.

#16 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparition says:

"Spiderman 2099 says:
"i would like to say yes but i have to say no"
then it's just the two of us spidey."

What are some things that you two think could trip them up?

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#17 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, this is a bit of a thinker.....ok, if nobody found out (which is likely, considering how both are among the smartest from both worlds), they grab the Infinity Gauntlet, some Green Lantern rings, a nuclear bomb of Kryptonite, the Phantom Zone Projector, build something that incorporates everyone's weaknesses into it, an army of robots for distraction, and go to town. Or concoct some monster plan.

In conclusion: Heck yes they win.

#18 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

cant see it happening.... im sure there are characters like cable in his prime who every second of every day read the thoughts of everyone on the planet.... someone would know whats coming.

#19 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparition says:

"zero edge says:
"After Tower of Babel and a 10 year planning... yeah I see them succeeding."
not just against all heroes but against all superpowered beings and you still see them succeeding? with all of the little things that could go wrong..."

Oh this is against all super powered beings. I didn't know well if that's the case, than no. Dr. Strange, Wanda, Dr. Fate, and Galactus are heavy hitters. I don't think they can pull it off, and if they do, it would have to be some serious luck.

#20 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

Rotten gun says:

"cant see it happening.... im sure there are characters like cable in his prime who every second of every day read the thoughts of everyone on the planet.... someone would know whats coming."

If that were the case, so many of the things that take place in comics wouldn't happen simply because powerful telepaths would know about it long beforehand.

Eternal Chaos says:

"Oh this is against *all* super powered beings. I didn't know well if that's the case, than no. Dr. Strange, Wanda, Dr. Fate, and Galactus are heavy hitters. I don't think they can pull it off, and if they do, it would have to be some serious luck."

First line: "all earthly superbeings" No Galactus (not that there aren't plans in place). Like I've mentioned, apart from their brilliance, both men have the trust of some of the most powerful people in both universes. Getting these people to do what they want for as long as they need to won't be hard. Heroes and villains have been tricked, controlled, bribed and blackmailed into doing things against their will many times before. Why couldn't these two do it again? Even if they couldn't work with the heroes/villains of their time, they have access to many resources that open time and space to them. Killing them won't be hard either. Batman and BP already have plans for taking care of all of their friends and enemies. Actually following through, especially with 10 years of free time, won't be difficult.

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#21 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Apparition says:
"Spiderman 2099 says:
"i would like to say yes but i have to say no"
then it's just the two of us spidey."
What are some things that you two think could trip them up?"

sorry i missed this. they are both extremely intelligent but so are so many others that are out there. lex luthor would certainly find out sometime during the ten years, which is why i asked if we're just going to assume no one figured it out during that time. he's just one of many. who's that one guy who's the third smartest guy in dc and has fair play written on his jacket? sorry i've forgotten his name but he would be all over this. as would the question and the leader and any of a bunch of other characters who are as smart or smarter than batman and black panther.

but then you have the fact that in any plan there is a chance for failure. the more intricate the plan, the more chances for failure. and if you have to plan against every single living superpowered being, then youre bound to run into failure and probably early.

#22 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah there are smart people, but are they checking up on Batman and Black Panther? How often do you see one genius planning something and then all of a sudden another comes in and says, "I know what you're planning and I'm here to stop you"? Why would they all of a sudden start keeping tabs on these two? And even if they were, you don't think it's possible that with all of the technology at their disposal they couldn't keep what they're doing quiet? And if they're really worried about people finding out, they can "take care" of those likely to stumble across their plans long before anything serious starts. Remember the island in 52 that had almost all of DC's brains on it? They could, under the name of someone else, get another one of those running and keep them all busy with something else. Or just kill them. These two are masters of planning. How often do you see one of their plans fail? Batman has a longer history so he's had some failures, but he can always complete his task and even when things mess up, he can turn them around. I can't recall a time when one of Black Panther's plans has failed other than one, and that was because someone involved didn't follow directions. That was like what happened with Spoiler, but not as bad. If the plans had been followed all would have worked out. BP still got a win though. And of course when they plan, they will have considered hundreds of worst case scenarios and have many backups. Gonna need more than, "they're bound to run into failure".

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#23 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Yeah there are smart people, but are they checking up on Batman and Black Panther? How often do you see one genius planning something and then all of a sudden another comes in and says, "I know what you're planning and I'm here to stop you"? Why would they all of a sudden start keeping tabs on these two? And even if they were, you don't think it's possible that with all of the technology at their disposal they couldn't keep what they're doing quiet? And if they're really worried about people finding out, they can "take care" of those likely to stumble across their plans long before anything serious starts. Remember the island in 52 that had almost all of DC's brains on it? They could, under the name of someone else, get another one of those running and keep them all busy with something else. Or just kill them. These two are masters of planning. How often do you see one of their plans fail? Batman has a longer history so he's had some failures, but he can always complete his task and even when things mess up, he can turn them around. I can't recall a time when one of Black Panther's plans has failed other than one, and that was because someone involved didn't follow directions. That was like what happened with Spoiler, but not as bad. If the plans had been followed all would have worked out. BP still got a win though. And of course when they plan, they will have considered hundreds of worst case scenarios and have many backups. Gonna need more than, "they're bound to run into failure". "

ok i'll try harder. you would have to think that they would have to stockpile equipment and move things into place for mos of those ten years to position things to kill every single superpowered being on the planet.

my first thought is that this would take away from some of the things that they normally do. that should be a tip off to anyone who is normally involved in their actions. tim would get suspicious of batman and bring in nightwing to try and find out what's going on. if they could not figure it out, you would think that they would bring in the question. i think he would be able to piece things together rather easily. black panther doesnt have a partner like batman does so he might be able to do things without being noticed. I guess batman and bp would realize this and let bp do most of everything, so that weakens my argument some.

but my second thought on that is that all of these manipulations, such as certain types of machinery necessary to capture the flash would be noticed. just like batman almost always notices his rogue's gallery getting the necessary equipment for some crazy plan, the justice league or the question would notice.

another thought is that the martian manhunter or some other telepath who comes into contact with them would have a great chance of figuring out their plans before it was time for this to occur. think of how often they come into contact with these telepaths. batman and black panther would try to plan to avoid this, but what do they have to avoid professor x and cerebro or the martian manhunter? what if moondragon is around or at some point during that 10 years phoenix is taken over by the phoenix force again. there isnt anything that they would have that would keep her from reading their minds. they have ten years but that's a drawback too. that's an awfully long time for nothing to happen that could expose their plans.

#24 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Rotten gun says:
"cant see it happening.... im sure there are characters like cable in his prime who every second of every day read the thoughts of everyone on the planet.... someone would know whats coming."
If that were the case, so many of the things that take place in comics wouldn't happen simply because powerful telepaths would know about it long beforehand.."

yes thats obvious...but this scenario is going to happen just as much as batman and BP are gonna destroy the universe. need to be realistic in our unrealism

#25 Posted by Buckshot (18710 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparition says:

"ok i'll try harder. you would have to think that they would have to stockpile equipment and move things into place for mos of those ten years to position things to kill every single superpowered being on the planet. my first thought is that this would take away from some of the things that they normally do. that should be a tip off to anyone who is normally involved in their actions. tim would get suspicious of batman and bring in nightwing to try and find out what's going on. if they could not figure it out, you would think that they would bring in the question. i think he would be able to piece things together rather easily. black panther doesnt have a partner like batman does so he might be able to do things without being noticed. I guess batman and bp would realize this and let bp do most of everything, so that weakens my argument some. but my second thought on that is that all of these manipulations, such as certain types of machinery necessary to capture the flash would be noticed. just like batman almost always notices his rogue's gallery getting the necessary equipment for some crazy plan, the justice league or the question would notice. another thought is that the martian manhunter or some other telepath who comes into contact with them would have a great chance of figuring out their plans before it was time for this to occur. think of how often they come into contact with these telepaths. batman and black panther would try to plan to avoid this, but what do they have to avoid professor x and cerebro or the martian manhunter? what if moondragon is around or at some point during that 10 years phoenix is taken over by the phoenix force again. there isnt anything that they would have that would keep her from reading their minds. they have ten years but that's a drawback too. that's an awfully long time for nothing to happen that could expose their plans."

You don't have to try to make them fail.

About stockpiling equipment: Like you said, BP is on his own (forget Storm, she bothers me) and he's incredibly secretive. Not only does he have all of Wakanda (above ground, underneath, in the techno jungle) to plot and store things, he's got the rest of the world too. He's hidden spaceships in bays in America and no one knew about them until he brought them out. He can hide stuff where he wants. They can also hide stuff throughout time or in seperate dimensions. No one's really going to suspect that they're doing anything out of character because they're known for being sneaky and secretive. And Batman can hide stuff right in the Batcave. Robin will know he's planning something, but he won't know what exactly it is. Batman could probably come out and say, "It's just a precaution in case the other heroes ever turn on us" and Robin would probably buy that because he knows Batman thinks about that stuff.

Black Panther lives in a world with an abundance of telepaths yet no one ever knows what he's going to do. He also has access to information like how to make psyshields (like what was used in defense against Onslaught) and that's just one form of psychic defense. Gathering tech and even magic from all over both universes should give ample protection from psychic evesdropping. One thing I feel the need to bring up are Solomon's Frogs. These things can bring a person from anywhere in time to whoever holds the frogs. For a short time after the trip, the person is very impressionable and can be easily brainwashed. Imagine if they used that to bring in all of the most powerful telepaths (versions of the very same psychics they're going up against) and had them working for them. Not only could they throw up a shield that would hide them, they could use them to attack once the rest of their plans are finished.

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#26 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

hmmmmn.... i see the realism is setting in?

#27 Posted by itsomething (2584 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope