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#101 Edited by Saren (25058 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Well, we just disagree on the implied advantage the equal prep time gives both sides. I disagree with your automatic assumption of the level of advantage that gives B&B. You assume because some folk don't believe in Batman that Cap and Scott couldn't find out some basic info on them from the X-men's mansion's resources. ("I'm sure some crook Batman busted in the past has sometime said "Gee, Batman just came out of the shadows like he was invisible" in an interview). Now C&C know to look out for someone who works stealthily from the shadows! Give them some credit. You don't captain the Avengers and X-men without some brains!

I also disagree about your assertion that Bats will so easily take Scott out. Comicvine's own description here of Scott mentions his strategic abilities, especially in the reactionary mode. It also mentions he has proven capable of hanging with Wolverine in hand to hand. I think you are selling him short. You say I'm falling back on "well, Steve and Scott are good strategists too". Well, guess what...they are! You can try to diminish this all you want to by making fun of the fact, but it doesn't change it.

I don't know about special gear or suits. The OP said standard gear. I'm not an avid collector so I'm sure your knowledge is more than mine. But IMO both Cap and Scott have more powerful range weapons that they both are adept at bouncing off multiple walls/targets inside close spaces (like an abandoned mall!) If they cover each other, they likely will win.

It's not some folk. The story in Golden Perfect was that a reality warper was turning collective beliefs into reality. If enough people believed in something, it would come true. Superman became a god because the majority of people on Earth believed that's what he was, Kyle Rayner became Hal Jordan because the majority of people on Earth didn't know there was someone else behind the GL mask, and Batman became an incorporeal semi-being because the majority of people on Earth don't even believe he exists.

People in Gotham have grown accustomed to Batman's presence as a part and parcel of their existence within the city; the further you stray from Gotham, the less likely it is that you'll find people who know anything about Batman. Even supposing that Cap and Scott figure out enough to focus only on opinions of Batman from within Gotham, that's not going to give them the information they need, and if anything, it'll give them the wrong information. I can show you scans where frightened Gotham criminals claim Batman can fly and walk through walls and is indestructible and immortal and god knows what else. It's the kind of misinformation that Bruce has deliberately encouraged because a terrified criminal has already defeated himself. Interviews with criminals are more likely to lead Cap and Scott to believe Batman is a winged cyborg demon that eats your soul (I am not even joking here) and they'll wind up preparing for the wrong kind of opponent ---- which is quite possibly worse than running in blind.

For someone who likes to accuse other people of giving undue importance to opinions and supposedly unsubstantiated beliefs over facts, it's a bit funny that you want to pin Team 2's strategy on a mysterious interview that you can't actually prove exists, or even granting that it exists, contains useful information that counters the info Team 1 has at their disposal. Cap and Scott have had very public fights with various enemies. These fights have been recorded and are available for viewing on the internet. Their abilities are common knowledge to most people. I can safely claim that Batman and Bane will know most of the important details about their opponents walking into the fight because the information is out there in the open. I can justify a claim for the information being out there in the open. You cannot even prove this interview or whatever that Cap and Scott are going to listen to even exists beyond the speculation you love to decry. This imaginary interview's existence isn't going to fill them in on even half of Batman's gear either.

And I'm unclear on how the X-Mansion's resources are going to even feature in this discussion ---- Cyclops isn't welcome there anymore, and he'd need to either break in somehow or get help from a resident to enter (which shouldn't be allowed). The X-Mansion's major resources are pretty much Cerebro, which in the hands of Scott and Steve (since neither of them are telepaths) will only help them pinpoint mutants on Earth. Neither Batman nor Bane are mutants; there should be nothing they can learn from it. To get more detailed information, they'd need to hand Cerebro over to a telepath and ask them to do the digging ---- which again falls into the category of outside help, which shouldn't be allowed. If it is, everyone here is aware of the kind of outside help Batman has access to.

Batman does not even need to get near Cyclops to take him out. A few knockout darts aimed from a distance will do the trick. Rudimentary knowledge of Cap's shield would prompt him to use magnetization tech to force the shield to stick to a wall, disarming Steve. I feel like I'm wasting time if your idea of proof is to quote a wiki, but feel free to prove that Scott can keep track of an opponent in stealth mode that he not only knows nothing to very little about, but can also cloak his movements such that he doesn't make the slightest sound, and move fast enough to evade a barrage of machine gun bullets in limited space. The wiki might have neglected to mention that Scott held his own against Wolverine first in an ancient encounter featuring a far less skilled Wolverine whose nerves were rattled at the time because of Proteus, or that he later held his own against Wolverine with optic beams rather than some kind of equivalent skill. Wolverine has also made short work of Cyclops in their Origins fight, if I'm remembering it correctly. Scott isn't as skilled as Bruce or Logan, and if he had to fight either of them in pure H2H, they'd win 10/10.

I think I've outlined a clear and executable strategy. You've just kept repeating "Cap and Cyclops are good strategists too!". I'm not making fun of the point so much as I am pointing out that it's not even a point unless you can justify it with things they've done instead of "They've lead the Avengers/X-Men!". Leading teams is something both Batman and Bane have done. Go ahead and tell me precisely what they're going to do keeping in mind the information asymmetry at play and the rather severe standard gear advantage Team 1 has courtesy of Batman.

Eh the power of hundreds that is contained in the suit of sorrows can only be accessed by Lane since he unlocked them.I dont think Bruce can claim that just yet,but yeah Bruce does have many different armors these days so that's an advantage.

Also I sincerely doubt that the normal people have no clue who Bane is,if Knightfall is canon then the people of Gotham know fully well about him.

Fair enough.

I completely forgot about that public declaration, but does it really tell the public anything other than that Bane is a guy who once beat up Batman?

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#102 Posted by TheSuperHuman (908 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote Super Soldier and One-Eye.

#103 Edited by darktiger (4622 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger said:

@overlordarhas said:

@stronger:

How can DC team defeat a guy with nukes for eyeballs?

First of all,Batman and Bane have prep which means they automatically win the match.

Second,Cyclops isn't allowed to remove his visor in this match,so I can even see Nightwing beating him.He has lost to Storm before and she didn't use her powers.

team dc for the win

#104 Edited by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's safe to say Batman and Bane's stealth and strategic advantages will be more than enough to grant them a victory over Cyclops and Captain America. Although neither team gets on, the environment the combatants are in coupled with the conditions of the fight mean Team DC should win here.

#105 Edited by XImpossibruX (5251 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you mean Standard Gear?

Because with prep Bruce has access to his Batcave, tech and billion dollar industry, but can he only use what's in is belt?


#106 Posted by Alexander505 (2177 posts) - - Show Bio
#107 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

OP says standard gear for 5 hours prep. so only what they already have can be used during prep and any other planning and examination of the area otherwise the prep advantage doesn't help.

Team Marvel takes it, because Cyke can KO or Kill any of these guys here, for example a shot to the head would kill but to the stomach or back would hurt however i feel like a shot from Cyke should just kill you completely. Anyways Cap can handle either Bats or Bane and Bane isn't as skilled as Cap so if Cap fight Bane i call that match 50/50 whereas Bats vs Cap would be 51/49. Now if it's Cyke vs Bane then goodbye Bane. He could shoot down a light or something hanging in the mall to fall on Bane hindering his movement then GG Bane. Now Bats has his work cut out for him. Cap would have already figure out what he's dealing with and tell Cyke to stay back and give cover fire or Cyke could just do environmental damage to try an hinder Bats movement. So Team Marvel 8/10. Prep is pointless says the OP standard Gear unless outside resources are allowed. Prep is just for planning.

#108 Edited by THEOCITYLEGEND (1308 posts) - - Show Bio

I am leaning towards team 1 right now.

#109 Posted by TDK_1997 (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

OP says standard gear for 5 hours prep. so only what they already have can be used during prep and any other planning and examination of the area otherwise the prep advantage doesn't help.

Team Marvel takes it, because Cyke can KO or Kill any of these guys here, for example a shot to the head would kill but to the stomach or back would hurt however i feel like a shot from Cyke should just kill you completely. Anyways Cap can handle either Bats or Bane and Bane isn't as skilled as Cap so if Cap fight Bane i call that match 50/50 whereas Bats vs Cap would be 51/49. Now if it's Cyke vs Bane then goodbye Bane. He could shoot down a light or something hanging in the mall to fall on Bane hindering his movement then GG Bane. Now Bats has his work cut out for him. Cap would have already figure out what he's dealing with and tell Cyke to stay back and give cover fire or Cyke could just do environmental damage to try an hinder Bats movement. So Team Marvel 8/10. Prep is pointless says the OP standard Gear unless outside resources are allowed. Prep is just for planning.

With standard gear Batman can do a lot of stuff to the other team you know.For 5 hours,he and Bane will make a good enough plan and with knowledge for the other team it would be rather easy.Batman can go stealth mode and with his gadgets he can take out Cyke from distance while Bane is fighting Cap(and he won't have much trouble with him).And later if Bane isn't already finished with Steve,Batman is going to help him.

Cyke can be dangerous but with basic knowledge on him,he will be an easy target for both guys but it would be faster if Batman takes him.

#110 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: This battle is no longer a prep battle with a huge advantage to team DC, but a planning and strategy battle since given 5 hours of prep and standard gear and a Abandoned Mall. With 5 hours Cap and Cyke can do some trap setting and examination of the area. They should identify stealth spots and mark(neutralize) them. Bane seems to be the bigger threat at a glance so Team Marvel will be focusing on Bane rather than bats so that fight will be Cyke vs Bane because logically you want a solid victory so Cap and Cyke will organize themselves accordingly. So Cyclops vs Bane = Cyclops and Cap vs Bats = undefined. So while Cap and Bats are fighting Cyke can come in and take him out. But Bats will play smart and hide so Cap should keep on him and hold him down and let Cyke give the game winning shot and a Shield bash should be as effective from Cap so either way Team D doesn't win this fight until Outside Resources are allowed for prep. So Team Marvel takes this decisively. Tough fight but the prep time still allows for some counter to the stealth that Bats has because if he goes into the dark places, corners or crevices Cap and Cyke should consider that and plan to take him down or shoot and block any space because they are smart and battle techniques so like I said Team Marvel. Also i want to say something that Cap and Cyke could do while Cyke is shooting he could have Cap set up a team shot so Cyke shoot at his shield and have it ricochet off an hit Bats, Bats would think Cyke missed but really that was the plan knocking Bats down allowing Cap to deliver the shield cut/bash.

#111 Posted by God_Spawn (38293 posts) - - Show Bio

Ehhh. No.

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#112 Posted by Saren (25058 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman and Bane 7/10.

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#113 Posted by TDK_1997 (15059 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: This battle is no longer a prep battle with a huge advantage to team DC, but a planning and strategy battle since given 5 hours of prep and standard gear and a Abandoned Mall. With 5 hours Cap and Cyke can do some trap setting and examination of the area. They should identify stealth spots and mark(neutralize) them. Bane seems to be the bigger threat at a glance so Team Marvel will be focusing on Bane rather than bats so that fight will be Cyke vs Bane because logically you want a solid victory so Cap and Cyke will organize themselves accordingly. So Cyclops vs Bane = Cyclops and Cap vs Bats = undefined. So while Cap and Bats are fighting Cyke can come in and take him out. But Bats will play smart and hide so Cap should keep on him and hold him down and let Cyke give the game winning shot and a Shield bash should be as effective from Cap so either way Team D doesn't win this fight until Outside Resources are allowed for prep. So Team Marvel takes this decisively. Tough fight but the prep time still allows for some counter to the stealth that Bats has because if he goes into the dark places, corners or crevices Cap and Cyke should consider that and plan to take him down or shoot and block any space because they are smart and battle techniques so like I said Team Marvel. Also i want to say something that Cap and Cyke could do while Cyke is shooting he could have Cap set up a team shot so Cyke shoot at his shield and have it ricochet off an hit Bats, Bats would think Cyke missed but really that was the plan knocking Bats down allowing Cap to deliver the shield cut/bash.

With 5 hours of prep it means that Batman and Bane can also be ready and that they may set some traps also,it's not only for Cap and Cyke.And with 5 hours of prep and the brain of both Bane and Batman,they can come up with a plan that will give them the win even if they are losing or if they are in serious trouble.I really think that if Bane takes on Cyclops he won't go down easily,he has the same chance as Cyke in the battle.He can deflect some of the shots and eventually knock Cyclops out cold.While the Batman and Cap fight can go slowly or fastly,it depends if Batman uses his gadgets more than usual.He can also trick Cap if he is giving him too much trouble.

Batman and Bane will take the win 8/10.

#114 Edited by comicninjax (469 posts) - - Show Bio

cyclops and cap ftw

#115 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997 said:

@swordandshields said:

@tdk_1997: This battle is no longer a prep battle with a huge advantage to team DC, but a planning and strategy battle since given 5 hours of prep and standard gear and a Abandoned Mall. With 5 hours Cap and Cyke can do some trap setting and examination of the area. They should identify stealth spots and mark(neutralize) them. Bane seems to be the bigger threat at a glance so Team Marvel will be focusing on Bane rather than bats so that fight will be Cyke vs Bane because logically you want a solid victory so Cap and Cyke will organize themselves accordingly. So Cyclops vs Bane = Cyclops and Cap vs Bats = undefined. So while Cap and Bats are fighting Cyke can come in and take him out. But Bats will play smart and hide so Cap should keep on him and hold him down and let Cyke give the game winning shot and a Shield bash should be as effective from Cap so either way Team D doesn't win this fight until Outside Resources are allowed for prep. So Team Marvel takes this decisively. Tough fight but the prep time still allows for some counter to the stealth that Bats has because if he goes into the dark places, corners or crevices Cap and Cyke should consider that and plan to take him down or shoot and block any space because they are smart and battle techniques so like I said Team Marvel. Also i want to say something that Cap and Cyke could do while Cyke is shooting he could have Cap set up a team shot so Cyke shoot at his shield and have it ricochet off an hit Bats, Bats would think Cyke missed but really that was the plan knocking Bats down allowing Cap to deliver the shield cut/bash.

With 5 hours of prep it means that Batman and Bane can also be ready and that they may set some traps also,it's not only for Cap and Cyke.And with 5 hours of prep and the brain of both Bane and Batman,they can come up with a plan that will give them the win even if they are losing or if they are in serious trouble.I really think that if Bane takes on Cyclops he won't go down easily,he has the same chance as Cyke in the battle.He can deflect some of the shots and eventually knock Cyclops out cold.While the Batman and Cap fight can go slowly or fastly,it depends if Batman uses his gadgets more than usual.He can also trick Cap if he is giving him too much trouble.

Batman and Bane will take the win 8/10.

As for Gadgets, would Batman show Bane the BAT CAVE or his toys, I don't think so.

#116 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

team 1. cause of prep