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#51 Posted by laflux (11085 posts) - - Show Bio

I am seizing this opportunity for one of my edited scans where Bane snaps Talon's neck right off the bat; I'd originally made this to troll GS but it fits so well here.

I've had a hard day today. Thanks for sharing this :-D, I see light at the end of a dark tunnel.

#52 Posted by Saren (24348 posts) - - Show Bio
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#53 Posted by Saint_Michael (112 posts) - - Show Bio

This comes down to Bat-lovers again coming up with a fantasy scenario wherein he can beat an opponent who is faster, stronger, and equipped with more firepower than he is. If you pull off the Bat-colored glasses Cap and Psyce win on stats and feats.

#54 Edited by Saren (24348 posts) - - Show Bio

This comes down to Bat-lovers again coming up with a fantasy scenario wherein he can beat an opponent who is faster, stronger, and equipped with more firepower than he is. If you pull off the Bat-colored glasses Cap and Psyce win on stats and feats.

Elaborate, sir. I look forward to this.

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#55 Posted by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_michael said:

This comes down to Bat-lovers again coming up with a fantasy scenario wherein he can beat an opponent who is faster, stronger, and equipped with more firepower than he is. If you pull off the Bat-colored glasses Cap and Psyce win on stats and feats.

Elaborate, sir. I look forward to this.

He won't. Just one of those new comers that disappear like they never existed.

#56 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@stronger:

Cyclops doesn't have to have superspeed, his beams travel fast and he used them to tag people far faster than Bane or The Bat. Bats is human and shouldn't be able to fight OR dodge speedsters so any instance if it is PIS. Cyclops has bounced his beams off several surfaces like a trick shot and is very accurate, neither Bane or Bats can stand up to his blasts even at a low setting. You're a DC guy i get it, so you picked them regardless of the fact they'd get their asses beat.

By your logic,bullets travel faster than Batman and so they should catch him.You forgot the fact that the dodgers are not dodging the bullet or the blast itself but the aim.I don't know if you get me.I am not certainly a DC guy.I honestly like DC more than Marvel but I like Marvel characters too.

#57 Posted by Saint_Michael (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane:There is not much more to elaborate on. In this scenario the strongest range and overall attack power component belongs to cyclops. The second most powerful range attack goes to Cap and his shield The strongest defensive component belongs to Cap. Cap is faster, stronger and more durable than Batman. If he is not on Venom, I believe Cap has the same advantages over Baine too (I may be wrong about the strength though).

Both Captain A and Cyclops have fought stealth/invisible/teleporting individuals in their past. I don't see how Batman "going stealth" is going to be enough to overcome the differences.

So, I believe that the stronger, faster team with the bigger "gun" wins this fight the majority of the time.

#58 Posted by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane:There is not much more to elaborate on. In this scenario the strongest range and overall attack power component belongs to cyclops. The second most powerful range attack goes to Cap and his shield The strongest defensive component belongs to Cap. Cap is faster, stronger and more durable than Batman. If he is not on Venom, I believe Cap has the same advantages over Baine too (I may be wrong about the strength though).

Both Captain A and Cyclops have fought stealth/invisible/teleporting individuals in their past. I don't see how Batman "going stealth" is going to be enough to overcome the differences.

So, I believe that the stronger, faster team with the bigger "gun" wins this fight the majority of the time.

You're argument only factors in one teams strengths. It does no counter argument the other teams strength which leaves a void in your overall argument. Team DC are very good at prep and on top of that have more stealth feats than team 2.

#59 Posted by Saint_Michael (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: I don't believe there is a void in my argument as much as there is an overestimation in yours.

Both teams have the prep and both teams have their standard gear. You assume that Batman and Bane are going to be able to do vastly more with their prep than Captain and Cyclops are. I disagree with this. The leader of the Avengers and the Leader of the X-men are no slouches when it comes to preparing for a battle strategy. It's not like Batman gets 5 hours to case the mall and place traps throughout it before Cap and Scott even get there. Whatever battle plans you believe Bats and Bane come up with to win I can just as easily say the other team thinks up a strategy to beat it. It is speculation on both of our parts.

Bottom line is it is an opinion on how much (and even weather or not) the terrain and prep factor would be an advantage to Batman and Bane. It is a fact that Cap and Psyche have them outclassed in firepower in this setup and that Cap has them outclassed physically. I'll go with facts over opinions.

#60 Edited by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Considering I'm in agreement with you, I can gladly find humor in those pictures.

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#61 Posted by Petite_Oiseau (226 posts) - - Show Bio
#62 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by Petite_Oiseau (226 posts) - - Show Bio
#64 Edited by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio
@saint_michael said:

@slimj87d: I don't believe there is a void in my argument as much as there is an overestimation in yours.

Both teams have the prep and both teams have their standard gear. You assume that Batman and Bane are going to be able to do vastly more with their prep than Captain and Cyclops are. I disagree with this. The leader of the Avengers and the Leader of the X-men are no slouches when it comes to preparing for a battle strategy. It's not like Batman gets 5 hours to case the mall and place traps throughout it before Cap and Scott even get there. Whatever battle plans you believe Bats and Bane come up with to win I can just as easily say the other team thinks up a strategy to beat it. It is speculation on both of our parts.

Bottom line is it is an opinion on how much (and even weather or not) the terrain and prep factor would be an advantage to Batman and Bane. It is a fact that Cap and Psyche have them outclassed in firepower in this setup and that Cap has them outclassed physically. I'll go with facts over opinions.

Batman is as skilled or slightly skilled than Captain America. True he is no on par physically with him, but his genius level intellect is far above Steve's. Even though he just has standard gear they're in a mall. And he could stealthily move around and create dozens of traps with the various dangerous things in the mall.

As Citizenbane said earlier, there is a lot of knowledge on Cap and Cyclops, even their identities are publicly known. Nothing is known about Batman or Bane and because of that they have the element of surprise.

Cap and Cyclops knowledge on the DC team are that they are mysterious figures with great fighting ability. The chances of them coming up with a game plan for people they have absolutely no knowledge of will hurt them the most. The knowledge that the OP gave Batman and Bane is everything they need to know. They know exactly what Cyclops powers are and they know that Cap is a super soldier that runs out in public regularly throwing his indestructible shield around.

So who is going to prep better for the fight? Obviously the team with more knowledge and the one that has a genius level intellect that has weapons everywhere around the mall.

The only thing that Cap and Cyclops have over the other team is like you said. Firepower thanks to Cyclops.

I didn't even touch on current Bane, this guy can jump up 3 or more stories high, punches and dents metal, lifts boulders with one hand like they were 45 lb weights.

Given a random encounter with a few feet away and no knowledge I would have probably argued for Cyclops and Cap. But the battle arrangements suit Batman and Bane more than they do Cyclops and Cap.

#65 Posted by Saint_Michael (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d : You bring up good possibilities. But notice you have to use the word "could" and "chances" to defend your position. I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane. But I won't bother to do that. You and I would just be giving opinions. You even create an off-balance beginning scenario that in 5 hours time team DC would know all about team Marvel and team Marvel knows nothing about the DC team. That is silly.

I disagree that Batman's intellect is superior to Steve's when it comes strictly to fighting and battle tactics. You can't say he has a clear edge there. I'd put Steve's battlefield experience as leader of the Avenger's up against Bruce's any day. Again, it's just your opinion vs mine.

If this fight was put in a computer scenario like "Deadliest Warrior" and the facts put in, then Cap's/Cyclop's superior firepower and physical abilities would trump Batman's/Bane's superior hiding abilities.

BTW, your "He won't. Just one of those new comers that disappear like they never existed." wasn't called for.

#66 Edited by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_michael said:

@slimj87d : You bring up good possibilities. But notice you have to use the word "could" and "chances" to defend your position. I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane. But I won't bother to do that. You and I would just be giving opinions. You even create an off-balance beginning scenario that in 5 hours time team DC would know all about team Marvel and team Marvel knows nothing about the DC team. That is silly.

I disagree that Batman's intellect is superior to Steve's when it comes strictly to fighting and battle tactics. You can't say he has a clear edge there. I'd put Steve's battlefield experience as leader of the Avenger's up against Bruce's any day. Again, it's just your opinion vs mine.

If this fight was put in a computer scenario like "Deadliest Warrior" and the facts put in, then Cap's/Cyclop's superior firepower and physical abilities would trump Batman's/Bane's superior hiding abilities.

BTW, your "He won't. Just one of those new comers that disappear like they never existed." wasn't called for.

Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?" I can reword that sentence for you if you would like.

"General Knowledge of each individual (What ordinary people know)"

Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact. Their identities and activities have been left a mystery to the public eye. Captain America and Cyclops identities and abilities are known by the public, therefore Batman and Bane know more about Captain America and Cyclops already giving them a far lead when their 5 hours of prep start.

" I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane."

Based on what?

#67 Posted by Saint_Michael (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@saint_michael said:

@slimj87d : You bring up good possibilities. But notice you have to use the word "could" and "chances" to defend your position. I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane. But I won't bother to do that. You and I would just be giving opinions. You even create an off-balance beginning scenario that in 5 hours time team DC would know all about team Marvel and team Marvel knows nothing about the DC team. That is silly.

I disagree that Batman's intellect is superior to Steve's when it comes strictly to fighting and battle tactics. You can't say he has a clear edge there. I'd put Steve's battlefield experience as leader of the Avenger's up against Bruce's any day. Again, it's just your opinion vs mine.

If this fight was put in a computer scenario like "Deadliest Warrior" and the facts put in, then Cap's/Cyclop's superior firepower and physical abilities would trump Batman's/Bane's superior hiding abilities.

BTW, your "He won't. Just one of those new comers that disappear like they never existed." wasn't called for.

Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?" I can reword that sentence for you if you would like.

"General Knowledge of each individual (What ordinary people know)"

Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact. Their identities and activities have been left a mystery to the public eye. Captain America and Cyclops identities and abilities are known by the public, therefore Batman and Bane know more about Captain America and Cyclops already giving them a far lead when their 5 hours of prep start.

" I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane."

Based on what?

"Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?""

No. I will say it again; the basis of my argument is fact...Cap/Scott team has superior physical abilities and firepower. This wins the fight. I've stated that multiple times now. Even you admitted that Cap and Cyclops have this. If you are stronger, faster, and hit harder, you have an advantage in a fight.

The basis of your argument is speculation...Batman would come up with a better plan based on his stealth ability and superior tactics. Unlike my argument about superior strength, speed, and firepower, your argument is based on supposition and opinion. It lacks facts. You have to make up advantages ("Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact") to give Batman/Bane a chance. There is no proof that Bats is a better battle tactician than Cap. I'll give you he is better at hiding. If this was a game of hide-and-go-seek, he'd have my vote.

It's really pretty simple. Fact vs opinion.

#68 Posted by Alak (869 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's how I see it going down. DC team has way more resources to utilize with their prep time than Marvel team. With Batman's help, Bane will probably get armed to the teeth with one of the former's larger exosuits. Suit + venom makes him a walking tank which essentially forces Marvel team to tag Bane as the primary threat. However, because of the armaments that Bane has, Cyclops has no problem holding back (like he always seems to do) and he wrecks Bane within seconds. Batman plays the stealth role while that's happening and takes out a distracted Scott immediately afterwards (who's the #1 threat on Marvel team). It comes down to Batman vs. Captain America. Now, this fight can go either way. Normally, I'd give it to Cap because that shield is such a fantastic weapon and it's really hard to get around. Given prep time, Batman has proven time and time again that he's capable of handling equally difficult scenarios. It just feels wrong to lean one way or another, so I'm calling this battle a tie in my book.

Without morals, however, Cyclops solos without breaking a sweat.

#69 Edited by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_michael said:

@slimj87d said:

@saint_michael said:

@slimj87d : You bring up good possibilities. But notice you have to use the word "could" and "chances" to defend your position. I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane. But I won't bother to do that. You and I would just be giving opinions. You even create an off-balance beginning scenario that in 5 hours time team DC would know all about team Marvel and team Marvel knows nothing about the DC team. That is silly.

I disagree that Batman's intellect is superior to Steve's when it comes strictly to fighting and battle tactics. You can't say he has a clear edge there. I'd put Steve's battlefield experience as leader of the Avenger's up against Bruce's any day. Again, it's just your opinion vs mine.

If this fight was put in a computer scenario like "Deadliest Warrior" and the facts put in, then Cap's/Cyclop's superior firepower and physical abilities would trump Batman's/Bane's superior hiding abilities.

BTW, your "He won't. Just one of those new comers that disappear like they never existed." wasn't called for.

Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?" I can reword that sentence for you if you would like.

"General Knowledge of each individual (What ordinary people know)"

Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact. Their identities and activities have been left a mystery to the public eye. Captain America and Cyclops identities and abilities are known by the public, therefore Batman and Bane know more about Captain America and Cyclops already giving them a far lead when their 5 hours of prep start.

" I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane."

Based on what?

"Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?""

No. I will say it again; the basis of my argument is fact...Cap/Scott team has superior physical abilities and firepower. This wins the fight. I've stated that multiple times now. Even you admitted that Cap and Cyclops have this. If you are stronger, faster, and hit harder, you have an advantage in a fight.

The basis of your argument is speculation...Batman would come up with a better plan based on his stealth ability and superior tactics. Unlike my argument about superior strength, speed, and firepower, your argument is based on supposition and opinion. It lacks facts. You have to make up advantages ("Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact") to give Batman/Bane a chance. There is no proof that Bats is a better battle tactician than Cap. I'll give you he is better at hiding. If this was a game of hide-and-go-seek, he'd have my vote.

It's really pretty simple. Fact vs opinion.

So are you trying to say that it's NOT fact that Batman and Bane have the upper hand by knowing more about their opponent?

Here are Batman's abilities in prep and a lot of the showings are with standard gear. Show me what Captain America and Cyclops have done with prep.

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/standardadvanced-prep-time.html

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/special-prep-time.html

What have either of the 2 done that triumphs Batman in prep? It's a fact that Batman has far more prep showings them the both of them.

Next is standard gear, sure Captain America has the shield, but Batman has various gadgets of all kind from batarangs that can explode to smoke bombs and pellets. On top of that his cowl has a built in computer that can get him information on anything, like lets say the mall they are in (seen in those links above). With prep and the addition of the computer in his cowl that gives him even more better preparing abilities than Cyclops and Captain America.

If you want me to tackle down your "superior stat" argument I can. First, what facts of you shown or referenced that are relevant? Look at all the showings of DD vs Captain America. Cap has DD out stat, yet they fight nearly to a stalemate. DD doesn't even have gear that is anywhere on par with Batman's. So what is fact about your "superior strength and speed?" That with that superior strength and speed he has had trouble against people like DD, Taskmaster and Crossbones? You could bring up the scans were Cap knocks DD out, but DD was rusty and had not fought for awhile, he had just came back from a hiatus and encountered a Cap with low morals. Their most recent encounter was close to a stalemate.

Here's a list of people Batman has beaten that are on par or even greater in skill than DD and Taskmaster.

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/martial-arts.html

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/skills-misc.html

I want to go on the record here that Bucky is my favorite comic book character. Steve is my second favorite. Cyclops is one of God_Spawn's top 5 favorite characters as well. Yet both of us agree that they don't have what it takes in this scenario.

#70 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4051 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap and Cyclops for a majority.

#71 Posted by Saren (24348 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_michael: I wasn't going to bother since Slim's already been addressing all your points, but I figured I might as well.

You say Cap and Scott shouldn't be counted out of the prep discussion because they're both good strategists. You're neglecting to realize that they have no idea whatsoever who or what they're going up against. Limiting their knowledge to what the public knows about Batman and Bane is basically giving them zero knowledge. There are stories like Golden Perfect where it's revealed that most people don't even think Batman is real, but simply an urban legend created by the Gotham Police or something like that. What are Cap and Scott going to derive from that? And what are they going to know about Bane considering that virtually no member of the public is even aware of his existence?

You can keep calling it a made-up advantage all you want; claims like that are laughable. Captain America's identity, personality and abilities are all public knowledge, as are Cyclops'. Batman and Bane could learn everything they need to know about Cyclops' optic beams from a YouTube video. It's honestly not even debatable as to which team is going to exploit the prep advantage to the fullest. Batman and Bane have far greater knowledge of their opponents' capabilities than their opponents do of them ---- fact. Batman alone is a walking armory, and far better equipped than Cap, Scott and Bane combined ---- also fact. Current Bane on Venom is stronger and tougher than Cap --- additional fact. If I felt like getting really technical, I'd point out that current Bruce (or at least one of the current Bruces considering there are 5 different versions of him in 5 books) is equipped with Azrael's Suit of Sorrows and has the strength and speed of a hundred men, so Steve's physical advantage doesn't exist anymore. I don't think I need to, though. Regular Bruce will suffice. Nor will I need to point out that Scott can barely use his powers properly these days after the Phoenix broke them ----- I don't think Team 1 needs any additional advantages so regular Scott will suffice as well.

Your argument that you're going with "facts over opinions" is really nothing more than glossing over a major disadvantage for Team 2 because you don't have an actual counter for it beyond "well, Steve and Scott are good strategists too". Any good strategist will tell you running in blind isn't good strategy. Cap and Scott have fought stealthy opponents? By that same token, both Batman and Bane have fought and defeated faster, stronger, and tougher opponents than Cap. Scott is a glass cannon in this match-up. Batman's standard suit is equipped with tech that makes him impossible to hear and damn near impossible to see as well when he's on the prowl. When Bruce gets the drop on Scott, he can and will end the fight in one hit seeing as how he knows Scott can fire beams from his eyes. He's fully capable of it and Scott doesn't even have skill to fall back on the way Cap does. He's not bad, but his skill isn't going to hold a candle to Batman's.

Steve's physical advantage over Bruce is going to make as much of a difference in their match-up as it makes against Daredevil ---- not enough to really matter. I had other stuff I thought about saying but it eludes me now, so I'll just skip ahead and invite you to justify your claim that Steve's tactical ability is equivalent to Bruce's.

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#72 Posted by The_PAIN (719 posts) - - Show Bio
#73 Edited by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain: If it was Bucky and Steve who have team chemistry than that would come into play. I don't think Cyclops and Cap have that much team ups to overcome the knowledge Batman and Bane have on them.

#74 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio
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#75 Posted by The_PAIN (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: @slimj87d:

What I have in mind is for Cykes to handle offense by firing his optics (long range attack) and for CAP to handle defense.

#76 Edited by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain said:

@saint_michael: @slimj87d: @citizenbane:

How about team play, I think this also be a factor. Most of the arguments are solely based on individual stats.

Each person hates their partner.

Noooo noooo nooooo. Lol, Cap doesn't hate Cyclops and they have worked together when the Avengers and X-men made titles together. Just one time Marvel made AvX and forced them at odds in a big event to make lots and lots of money.

Maybe he's currently upset with Cyclops over AvX as well as Cyclops is upset with him, but if they needed to work together they probably would.

#77 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Cyclops dissed him and left Cap and the Avengers frozen in a time bubble on world wide television where they looked like racist bigots. I'm sure he is a little more than upset.

@the_pain: Cyclops won't see Bruce coming, nor will he be blasting all willy nilly all over the place because of it. Cap isn't a perfect circle around him either.

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#78 Posted by The_PAIN (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

If Cyclops is press to the corner, what if he panic shots everything in his line of vision or attempt a "Get off my lawn blast".

#79 Posted by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain said:

@god_spawn: @slimj87d:

What I have in mind is for Cykes to handle offense by firing his optics (long range attack) and for CAP to handle defense.

Well they're in an abandoned mall and Batman has pulled up schematics for buildings he has never been in before in his cowl from my memory. The problem is that cyclops won't see or know where Batman is. And Batman knows how dangerous it would be to approach Cyclop or even let Cyclops see him.

Random encounter and Batman not knowing about Cyclops and Cap's abilities, that strategy might work. I don't think Batman nor Bane would go with a stealth approach if they just randomly saw each other and started fighting.

#80 Posted by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Cyclops dissed him and left Cap and the Avengers frozen in a time bubble on world wide television where they looked like racist bigots. I'm sure he is a little more than upset.

@the_pain: Cyclops won't see Bruce coming, nor will he be blasting all willy nilly all over the place because of it. Cap isn't a perfect circle around him either.

Watch Age of Ultron changes all that lol. "It never haaaaapppaaaannneeedd" *waves hand around like a magician*

#81 Posted by New_World_Order (11201 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

#82 Edited by KMART4455 (1290 posts) - - Show Bio

Giving Batman Bane in this fight is pretty useless.. Bane is outclassed by Both Cyclops and Captain America.. Its two on one and team marvel arnt slouches...

Giving it to Marvel..

#83 Edited by tg1982 (2707 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman and Bane win.

As I've always stated from my first posts on these boards, in a random encounter I think Cap would have the advantage, with prep Bats would. And since there's prep I think Bats and Bane would have the advantage. My only question is, doesn't Cyke have some kind of special awareness power? If so then wouldn't it be kind of hard for people to sneak up or "go stealth" on him? Not that it matters, though, regardless of the answer I still think Bats and Bane would win.

#84 Posted by Hyperlight (4339 posts) - - Show Bio

bane and the bat

#85 Posted by entropy_aegis (13631 posts) - - Show Bio

@saint_michael: I wasn't going to bother since Slim's already been addressing all your points, but I figured I might as well.

You say Cap and Scott shouldn't be counted out of the prep discussion because they're both good strategists. You're neglecting to realize that they have no idea whatsoever who or what they're going up against. Limiting their knowledge to what the public knows about Batman and Bane is basically giving them zero knowledge. There are stories like Golden Perfect where it's revealed that most people don't even think Batman is real, but simply an urban legend created by the Gotham Police or something like that. What are Cap and Scott going to derive from that? And what are they going to know about Bane considering that virtually no member of the public is even aware of his existence?

You can keep calling it a made-up advantage all you want; claims like that are laughable. Captain America's identity, personality and abilities are all public knowledge, as are Cyclops'. Batman and Bane could learn everything they need to know about Cyclops' optic beams from a YouTube video. It's honestly not even debatable as to which team is going to exploit the prep advantage to the fullest. Batman and Bane have far greater knowledge of their opponents' capabilities than their opponents do of them ---- fact. Batman alone is a walking armory, and far better equipped than Cap, Scott and Bane combined ---- also fact. Current Bane on Venom is stronger and tougher than Cap --- additional fact. If I felt like getting really technical, I'd point out that current Bruce (or at least one of the current Bruces considering there are 5 different versions of him in 5 books) is equipped with Azrael's Suit of Sorrows and has the strength and speed of a hundred men, so Steve's physical advantage doesn't exist anymore. I don't think I need to, though. Regular Bruce will suffice. Nor will I need to point out that Scott can barely use his powers properly these days after the Phoenix broke them ----- I don't think Team 1 needs any additional advantages so regular Scott will suffice as well.

Your argument that you're going with "facts over opinions" is really nothing more than glossing over a major disadvantage for Team 2 because you don't have an actual counter for it beyond "well, Steve and Scott are good strategists too". Any good strategist will tell you running in blind isn't good strategy. Cap and Scott have fought stealthy opponents? By that same token, both Batman and Bane have fought and defeated faster, stronger, and tougher opponents than Cap. Scott is a glass cannon in this match-up. Batman's standard suit is equipped with tech that makes him impossible to hear and damn near impossible to see as well when he's on the prowl. When Bruce gets the drop on Scott, he can and will end the fight in one hit seeing as how he knows Scott can fire beams from his eyes. He's fully capable of it and Scott doesn't even have skill to fall back on the way Cap does. He's not bad, but his skill isn't going to hold a candle to Batman's.

Steve's physical advantage over Bruce is going to make as much of a difference in their match-up as it makes against Daredevil ---- not enough to really matter. I had other stuff I thought about saying but it eludes me now, so I'll just skip ahead and invite you to justify your claim that Steve's tactical ability is equivalent to Bruce's.

Eh the power of hundreds that is contained in the suit of sorrows can only be accessed by Lane since he unlocked them.I dont think Bruce can claim that just yet,but yeah Bruce does have many different armors these days so that's an advantage.

Also I sincerely doubt that the normal people have no clue who Bane is,if Knightfall is canon then the people of Gotham know fully well about him.

#86 Posted by Saint_Michael (112 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Well, we just disagree on the implied advantage the equal prep time gives both sides. I disagree with your automatic assumption of the level of advantage that gives B&B. You assume because some folk don't believe in Batman that Cap and Scott couldn't find out some basic info on them from the X-men's mansion's resources. ("I'm sure some crook Batman busted in the past has sometime said "Gee, Batman just came out of the shadows like he was invisible" in an interview). Now C&C know to look out for someone who works stealthily from the shadows! Give them some credit. You don't captain the Avengers and X-men without some brains!

I also disagree about your assertion that Bats will so easily take Scott out. Comicvine's own description here of Scott mentions his strategic abilities, especially in the reactionary mode. It also mentions he has proven capable of hanging with Wolverine in hand to hand. I think you are selling him short. You say I'm falling back on "well, Steve and Scott are good strategists too". Well, guess what...they are! You can try to diminish this all you want to by making fun of the fact, but it doesn't change it.

I don't know about special gear or suits. The OP said standard gear. I'm not an avid collector so I'm sure your knowledge is more than mine. But IMO both Cap and Scott have more powerful range weapons that they both are adept at bouncing off multiple walls/targets inside close spaces (like an abandoned mall!) If they cover each other, they likely will win.

#87 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

dang, i was going to go with marvel, then i saw 5 hours prep for dc.

DC wins

#88 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_pain: He won't use a get off my lawn blast. I've already covered that earlier in the thread. And Bruce is too smart and skilled to not screw up his shot at taking him down and Cyclops isn't skilled enough nor does he have enhanced senses to counter someone of Bruce's caliber. In possible future posting from you or anyone else, the scan showing Cyclops fight a bunch of thugs does not equate to countering Batman's stealth.

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#89 Posted by OverLordArgeist (5255 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

From what a heard, he has a very good Geometric Spatial Awareness.

I will look for scans to back this up.

#90 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: You won't tell me anything I don't know about Cyclops. Trust me. My point is, for majority's sake, he isn't getting the shot off necessary to take Bruce before Bruce gets him. The stealth advantage is a huge one and people seem to keep ignoring it.

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#91 Posted by OverLordArgeist (5255 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

Cool, BTW, do you have a scan where he casually nuke a bunch of enemies and said he does not want to waste time and wolverine replied that this world is messed-up because he of the magnitude of destruction Cyclops inflict. i think the enemy was the Brood, can't remember.

#92 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Posted by OverLordArgeist (5255 posts) - - Show Bio
#94 Posted by OverLordArgeist (5255 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

Was this blast on character or are there underlying context?

#95 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas: The krakoa was destroying the bio sentinel and they needed it as evidence. Cyclops couldn't waste time and nuked the thing. A blast of that magnitude is not something he has ever done on a human.

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#96 Edited by OverLordArgeist (5255 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn:

Time constraint, Fair enough.

Thank you for the info.

#97 Posted by Abocado (666 posts) - - Show Bio

Team MARVEL, too versatile.

#98 Posted by DangerousLoki (715 posts) - - Show Bio

I would love to say Cyclops and Cap win. I would. And I think they could take it but not the majority. Though I think it's funny that everyone puts Bruce against Cyclops as I think if Cyke takes down Bane. Whom I think he could put down pretty effectively. And I wouldn't say that Bruce's stealth gives him too much of an advantage I'm pretty sure Cyke has countered the stealth of invisible people, telporters, and others though I don't have scans and he's no slouch in a fight. While i think Cyke and Cap could probably put Bruce and Bane down, the arguments in favor of the DC team are convincing and I have to agree.

Though as far as prep goes, I wish if you're going to argue prep that you should at least be able to put forth some kind of argument how that prep is helpful by actually offering an idea that might grant the victory. Because the "He could think of something" with prep is a silly argument that doesn't really offer a debatable position.

#99 Posted by TDK_1997 (13718 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@saint_michael said:

@slimj87d : You bring up good possibilities. But notice you have to use the word "could" and "chances" to defend your position. I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane. But I won't bother to do that. You and I would just be giving opinions. You even create an off-balance beginning scenario that in 5 hours time team DC would know all about team Marvel and team Marvel knows nothing about the DC team. That is silly.

I disagree that Batman's intellect is superior to Steve's when it comes strictly to fighting and battle tactics. You can't say he has a clear edge there. I'd put Steve's battlefield experience as leader of the Avenger's up against Bruce's any day. Again, it's just your opinion vs mine.

If this fight was put in a computer scenario like "Deadliest Warrior" and the facts put in, then Cap's/Cyclop's superior firepower and physical abilities would trump Batman's/Bane's superior hiding abilities.

BTW, your "He won't. Just one of those new comers that disappear like they never existed." wasn't called for.

Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?" I can reword that sentence for you if you would like.

"General Knowledge of each individual (What ordinary people know)"

Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact. Their identities and activities have been left a mystery to the public eye. Captain America and Cyclops identities and abilities are known by the public, therefore Batman and Bane know more about Captain America and Cyclops already giving them a far lead when their 5 hours of prep start.

" I just as easily can say Cap/Cyc "could" come up with a better plan than Bats/Bane."

Based on what?

"Is the basis of your argument cherry picking the usage of the words "could" and "chance?""

No. I will say it again; the basis of my argument is fact...Cap/Scott team has superior physical abilities and firepower. This wins the fight. I've stated that multiple times now. Even you admitted that Cap and Cyclops have this. If you are stronger, faster, and hit harder, you have an advantage in a fight.

The basis of your argument is speculation...Batman would come up with a better plan based on his stealth ability and superior tactics. Unlike my argument about superior strength, speed, and firepower, your argument is based on supposition and opinion. It lacks facts. You have to make up advantages ("Captain America and Cyclops know nothing about Batman and Bane and that's a fact") to give Batman/Bane a chance. There is no proof that Bats is a better battle tactician than Cap. I'll give you he is better at hiding. If this was a game of hide-and-go-seek, he'd have my vote.

It's really pretty simple. Fact vs opinion.

You are basically saying that if Batman is fighting somebody who is stronger than him that means he loses.Which is false.He has fought a lot of people that have had the advantage against him but in the end because of his brain and plan he has won.And the same thing goes here.Slim already mentioned that with 5 hours of prep the DC team can do much more than the Marvel team and the fire power won't matter much.With so much prep Batman and Bane together can even things up and make it a fair fight and everything onwards will be just a tactic and a simple plan that is going to win them the battle.

#100 Edited by SlimJ87D (8925 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Well, we just disagree on the implied advantage the equal prep time gives both sides. I disagree with your automatic assumption of the level of advantage that gives B&B. You assume because some folk don't believe in Batman that Cap and Scott couldn't find out some basic info on them from the X-men's mansion's resources. ("I'm sure some crook Batman busted in the past has sometime said "Gee, Batman just came out of the shadows like he was invisible" in an interview). Now C&C know to look out for someone who works stealthily from the shadows! Give them some credit. You don't captain the Avengers and X-men without some brains!

I also disagree about your assertion that Bats will so easily take Scott out. Comicvine's own description here of Scott mentions his strategic abilities, especially in the reactionary mode. It also mentions he has proven capable of hanging with Wolverine in hand to hand. I think you are selling him short. You say I'm falling back on "well, Steve and Scott are good strategists too". Well, guess what...they are! You can try to diminish this all you want to by making fun of the fact, but it doesn't change it.

I don't know about special gear or suits. The OP said standard gear. I'm not an avid collector so I'm sure your knowledge is more than mine. But IMO both Cap and Scott have more powerful range weapons that they both are adept at bouncing off multiple walls/targets inside close spaces (like an abandoned mall!) If they cover each other, they likely will win.

You're using Comicvines wiki as a source. Do you know who is one of the top contributors for Cyclops article and scans? @god_spawn here in this thread.