#151 Posted by Last Arrow. (244 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"I know I just like the picture.

But okay so we have wolverine good fighter and massive regenartion also a good planner. Then we have Batgirl Super fighter and good planer but she knows nothing about Wolverine so yeah he pops his claws and she takes him down, The things is whats stopping him from getting straight back up and placiing the claws in her back. Yes he is that low. The only way Cass wins this if she knows about wolverine from the start knowing that taking out some nerve cores or something like that would drop him for enough time for her to tie him up or whatever."
Damn..you people are making me make a case for Batgirl.
1.Wolverine a good fighter? True...Cassie beat Deathstroke.....Wolverine isn't on his level or fighting skill.
2.What's stopping Wolverine from gutting Cassie..or sticking her in the back? She's faster than him...
3.I have seen almost every good fighter in Marvel use nerve attacks..you don't need prep for that.
"

1. True wolverine is not on that level but he has beat elektra and to be fair she is meant to be the best (he did cheat but hey a wins a win)
2.Yeah I agree she is alot faster then him. But if she thinks he is down and not knowing about the healing abilty that gives him a chance to move before she can react.
3.If she does know about the healing ablity then she would go for a nerve attack (thats what I meant by that ) I dont think she would use it not knowing to start with. 
#152 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Last Arrow. said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"I know I just like the picture.

But okay so we have wolverine good fighter and massive regenartion also a good planner. Then we have Batgirl Super fighter and good planer but she knows nothing about Wolverine so yeah he pops his claws and she takes him down, The things is whats stopping him from getting straight back up and placiing the claws in her back. Yes he is that low. The only way Cass wins this if she knows about wolverine from the start knowing that taking out some nerve cores or something like that would drop him for enough time for her to tie him up or whatever."
Damn..you people are making me make a case for Batgirl.
1.Wolverine a good fighter? True...Cassie beat Deathstroke.....Wolverine isn't on his level or fighting skill.
2.What's stopping Wolverine from gutting Cassie..or sticking her in the back? She's faster than him...
3.I have seen almost every good fighter in Marvel use nerve attacks..you don't need prep for that.
"

1. True wolverine is not on that level but he has beat elektra and to be fair she is meant to be the best (he did cheat but hey a wins a win)
2.Yeah I agree she is alot faster then him. But if she thinks he is down and not knowing about the healing abilty that gives him a chance to move before she can react.
3.If she does know about the healing ablity then she would go for a nerve attack (thats what I meant by that ) I dont think she would use it not knowing to start with. "
1.I can name at least three better female fighters than Elektra off the top of my head.
2.Once he's knocked out she wins....a knockout is a win.
3.Once she gets of that first hit and feels that skeleton underneath....she'll get it,
Moderator
#153 Posted by ronin alexsnder (7817 posts) - - Show Bio
Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"I seriously wanna see this Deer fight I've heard so much about it..lol"
me too and why was he fighting the deer lol."
rotfl!  maybe he was jsut walking and it jumped out of nowhere and kicked him...lol"
dang deer i know how that feels me and this coon got in a fight one time it just jumped out of the garbage and kicked my butt
#154 Posted by Last Arrow. (244 posts) - - Show Bio

On a side note alot of wolverine fans in here are totally undermining Batgirls skill. She wont just rush into battle she will size wolverine up before evening making a move. The only Way I see wolverine winning is if she does not have the knowledge of what he is and what he can do. If she does havee that info then she wins for sure. The Girl is hardcore trust me on that one she is not just Human as some of you say she is a weapon.

#155 Posted by ronin alexsnder (7817 posts) - - Show Bio

yea how would batgirl do against elektra?

#156 Posted by Obi Wan Kenobi! (27638 posts) - - Show Bio
ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"I seriously wanna see this Deer fight I've heard so much about it..lol"
me too and why was he fighting the deer lol."
rotfl!  maybe he was jsut walking and it jumped out of nowhere and kicked him...lol"
dang deer i know how that feels me and this coon got in a fight one time it just jumped out of the garbage and kicked my butt"
i once interrupted these two cats doing it..and the cat got pissed and scratched and bit me in my leg...those things are freaky, man....
#157 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
ronin alexsnder said:
"yea how would batgirl do against elektra?"
One hit..good night.
Moderator
#158 Posted by ronin alexsnder (7817 posts) - - Show Bio
Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"I seriously wanna see this Deer fight I've heard so much about it..lol"
me too and why was he fighting the deer lol."
rotfl!  maybe he was jsut walking and it jumped out of nowhere and kicked him...lol"
dang deer i know how that feels me and this coon got in a fight one time it just jumped out of the garbage and kicked my butt"
i once interrupted these two cats doing it..and the cat got pissed and scratched and bit me in my leg...those things are freaky, man...."
haha try taking on a coon man their vicious.
#159 Posted by Last Arrow. (244 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"I know I just like the picture.

But okay so we have wolverine good fighter and massive regenartion also a good planner. Then we have Batgirl Super fighter and good planer but she knows nothing about Wolverine so yeah he pops his claws and she takes him down, The things is whats stopping him from getting straight back up and placiing the claws in her back. Yes he is that low. The only way Cass wins this if she knows about wolverine from the start knowing that taking out some nerve cores or something like that would drop him for enough time for her to tie him up or whatever."
Damn..you people are making me make a case for Batgirl.
1.Wolverine a good fighter? True...Cassie beat Deathstroke.....Wolverine isn't on his level or fighting skill.
2.What's stopping Wolverine from gutting Cassie..or sticking her in the back? She's faster than him...
3.I have seen almost every good fighter in Marvel use nerve attacks..you don't need prep for that.
"

1. True wolverine is not on that level but he has beat elektra and to be fair she is meant to be the best (he did cheat but hey a wins a win)
2.Yeah I agree she is alot faster then him. But if she thinks he is down and not knowing about the healing abilty that gives him a chance to move before she can react.
3.If she does know about the healing ablity then she would go for a nerve attack (thats what I meant by that ) I dont think she would use it not knowing to start with. "
1.I can name at least three better female fighters than Elektra off the top of my head.
2.Once he's knocked out she wins....a knockout is a win.
3.Once she gets of that first hit and feels that skeleton underneath....she'll get it,
"
1.That was really just an example of him beating someone better then him, He has beat Eko as well she is top class.
2.sure he gets knocked out but for how long I hate marvel writters when it comes to this point cause it is so unclear. sometimes its like 2 sec (this is where he could pop his claws and get her) other times its days GO MARVEL for that one.
3.Its not about the skeleton im more focused on the healing attirbute. She wont know about that till she drops him or breaks his nose. This is the only aspect that is keeping wolverine in this fight is that healing ablitty
#160 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Last Arrow. said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"I know I just like the picture.

But okay so we have wolverine good fighter and massive regenartion also a good planner. Then we have Batgirl Super fighter and good planer but she knows nothing about Wolverine so yeah he pops his claws and she takes him down, The things is whats stopping him from getting straight back up and placiing the claws in her back. Yes he is that low. The only way Cass wins this if she knows about wolverine from the start knowing that taking out some nerve cores or something like that would drop him for enough time for her to tie him up or whatever."
Damn..you people are making me make a case for Batgirl.
1.Wolverine a good fighter? True...Cassie beat Deathstroke.....Wolverine isn't on his level or fighting skill.
2.What's stopping Wolverine from gutting Cassie..or sticking her in the back? She's faster than him...
3.I have seen almost every good fighter in Marvel use nerve attacks..you don't need prep for that.
"

1. True wolverine is not on that level but he has beat elektra and to be fair she is meant to be the best (he did cheat but hey a wins a win)
2.Yeah I agree she is alot faster then him. But if she thinks he is down and not knowing about the healing abilty that gives him a chance to move before she can react.
3.If she does know about the healing ablity then she would go for a nerve attack (thats what I meant by that ) I dont think she would use it not knowing to start with. "
1.I can name at least three better female fighters than Elektra off the top of my head.
2.Once he's knocked out she wins....a knockout is a win.
3.Once she gets of that first hit and feels that skeleton underneath....she'll get it,
"
1.That was really just an example of him beating someone better then him, He has beat Eko as well she is top class.
2.sure he gets knocked out but for how long I hate marvel writters when it comes to this point cause it is so unclear. sometimes its like 2 sec (this is where he could pop his claws and get her) other times its days GO MARVEL for that one.
3.Its not about the skeleton im more focused on the healing attirbute. She wont know about that till she drops him or breaks his nose. This is the only aspect that is keeping wolverine in this fight is that healing ablitty
"
1.No it isn't.Elektra isn't a better fighter than him.In the Marvel Handbook Wolverine is classified a class 7 fighter which is the highest level.Elektra is a class 5 which is the same level as Moon Knight and Blade.
2.I don't know.

3.Ok.
Moderator
#161 Posted by Obi Wan Kenobi! (27638 posts) - - Show Bio
ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"I seriously wanna see this Deer fight I've heard so much about it..lol"
me too and why was he fighting the deer lol."
rotfl!  maybe he was jsut walking and it jumped out of nowhere and kicked him...lol"
dang deer i know how that feels me and this coon got in a fight one time it just jumped out of the garbage and kicked my butt"
i once interrupted these two cats doing it..and the cat got pissed and scratched and bit me in my leg...those things are freaky, man...."
haha try taking on a coon man their vicious."
I barely even see any in LA...lol.. a lot of squirrels tho...my 4th grade teacher's Guinea Pig bit me once...lol
#162 Edited by Last Arrow. (244 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Last Arrow. said:
"I know I just like the picture.

But okay so we have wolverine good fighter and massive regenartion also a good planner. Then we have Batgirl Super fighter and good planer but she knows nothing about Wolverine so yeah he pops his claws and she takes him down, The things is whats stopping him from getting straight back up and placiing the claws in her back. Yes he is that low. The only way Cass wins this if she knows about wolverine from the start knowing that taking out some nerve cores or something like that would drop him for enough time for her to tie him up or whatever."
Damn..you people are making me make a case for Batgirl.
1.Wolverine a good fighter? True...Cassie beat Deathstroke.....Wolverine isn't on his level or fighting skill.
2.What's stopping Wolverine from gutting Cassie..or sticking her in the back? She's faster than him...
3.I have seen almost every good fighter in Marvel use nerve attacks..you don't need prep for that.
"

1. True wolverine is not on that level but he has beat elektra and to be fair she is meant to be the best (he did cheat but hey a wins a win)
2.Yeah I agree she is alot faster then him. But if she thinks he is down and not knowing about the healing abilty that gives him a chance to move before she can react.
3.If she does know about the healing ablity then she would go for a nerve attack (thats what I meant by that ) I dont think she would use it not knowing to start with. "
1.I can name at least three better female fighters than Elektra off the top of my head.
2.Once he's knocked out she wins....a knockout is a win.
3.Once she gets of that first hit and feels that skeleton underneath....she'll get it,
"
1.That was really just an example of him beating someone better then him, He has beat Eko as well she is top class.
2.sure he gets knocked out but for how long I hate marvel writters when it comes to this point cause it is so unclear. sometimes its like 2 sec (this is where he could pop his claws and get her) other times its days GO MARVEL for that one.
3.Its not about the skeleton im more focused on the healing attirbute. She wont know about that till she drops him or breaks his nose. This is the only aspect that is keeping wolverine in this fight is that healing ablitty
"
1.No it isn't.Elektra isn't a better fighter than him.In the Marvel Handbook Wolverine is classified a class 7 fighter which is the highest level.Elektra is a class 5 which is the same level as Moon Knight and Blade.
2.I don't know.

3.Ok.
"
1. Damn really never knew that.I totally would have thought Elktra was higher.
#163 Posted by ronin alexsnder (7817 posts) - - Show Bio
Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"I seriously wanna see this Deer fight I've heard so much about it..lol"
me too and why was he fighting the deer lol."
rotfl!  maybe he was jsut walking and it jumped out of nowhere and kicked him...lol"
dang deer i know how that feels me and this coon got in a fight one time it just jumped out of the garbage and kicked my butt"
i once interrupted these two cats doing it..and the cat got pissed and scratched and bit me in my leg...those things are freaky, man...."
haha try taking on a coon man their vicious."
I barely even see any in LA...lol.. a lot of squirrels tho...my 4th grade teacher's Guinea Pig bit me once...lol"
i got bit by a fish one time it sucked
#164 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
"Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"I seriously wanna see this Deer fight I've heard so much about it..lol"
me too and why was he fighting the deer lol."
rotfl!  maybe he was jsut walking and it jumped out of nowhere and kicked him...lol"
dang deer i know how that feels me and this coon got in a fight one time it just jumped out of the garbage and kicked my butt"
i once interrupted these two cats doing it..and the cat got pissed and scratched and bit me in my leg...those things are freaky, man...."
haha try taking on a coon man their vicious."
I barely even see any in LA...lol.. a lot of squirrels tho...my 4th grade teacher's Guinea Pig bit me once...lol"
i got bit by a fish one time it sucked"
...........................
Moderator
#165 Posted by Obi Wan Kenobi! (27638 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"ronin alexsnder said:
i got bit by a fish one time it sucked"
..........................."
#166 Posted by ronin alexsnder (7817 posts) - - Show Bio

lmmfao

#167 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean..where the hell were you swimming at that you got bit by a fish?

Moderator
#168 Posted by Obi Wan Kenobi! (27638 posts) - - Show Bio

The Amazon River...lol

#169 Posted by ronin alexsnder (7817 posts) - - Show Bio
Obi Wan Kenobi! said:
"The Amazon River...lol"
lol the fish tank!!!!
#170 Posted by Cobalt (1471 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl won't be albe to dodge and attack forever. Logan wins this one for me.

#171 Posted by Vance Astro (91286 posts) - - Show Bio
Cobalt said:
"Batgirl won't be albe to dodge and attack forever. Logan wins this one for me."
She doesn't have to dodge for ever...just long enough until she gets the KO.
Moderator
#172 Posted by NightFang (10117 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Cobalt said:
"Batgirl won't be albe to dodge and attack forever. Logan wins this one for me."
She doesn't have to dodge for ever...just long enough until she gets the KO."
              Agreed.
#173 Posted by SwaggaB0y (5262 posts) - - Show Bio

hmm

#174 Posted by Winduizcool (775 posts) - - Show Bio
Erik said:
She can't hit him that hard. It took the Hulk to do that.
Exactly. Plus ,both also have a fair amount of agility. But when it comes to  three claws and an adamantium body, how could batgirl win? 
#175 Posted by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio

she cant some ppl just want to be fanboyish

#176 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl is in trouble. Being able read moves, dodge, counter, and hit hard enough to KO those with superhuman durability isn't go to be enough here.

#177 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm inclined to agree with you.  A very good case can be made for Wolverine.

#178 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moderator
#179 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it that I'm posting at all that shocks more or the fact that I cast my lot with Wolverine?

#180 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Or perhaps youre emphatically agreeing...

#181 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

It's that you're posting at all. It only just now hit me that you're on Wolverine's side. 

Moderator
#182 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah. Good that my first thought was correct.  I'm scanning battles to see how things have been going while I've been away.

#183 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" Batgirl is in trouble. Being able read moves, dodge, counter, and hit hard enough to KO those with superhuman durability isn't go to be enough here. "
Move reading and peak human ability were enough for Mr. X, why not Batgirl?
Moderator
#184 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:
"Move reading and peak human ability were enough for Mr. X, why not Batgirl? "

Wasn't it more low level telepathy for Mr. X then move reading?  As I recall, Wolverine eventually counter acted X by moving with no plan, simply moving by instinct alone and blanking his mind, which would not help against Batgirl.  Though I would think she would need a distinct advantage in reaction time, which is what she generally has against anyone she faces, to be able to take advantage of her body reading.  I think he has her level of reaction time or at least fairly close to it, though he rarely displays it.
#185 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:
" Move reading and peak human ability were enough for Mr. X, why not Batgirl? "
Well, I hear Mr. X had an enhancement for that fight, and that he used nerve strikes to win. Thing is, nerve strikes have proven to be ineffective against Wolverine on several other occasions recently. There was a guy that used killer nerve strikes on Wolverine a long time ago to knock him out, but it was when his healing factor was waning at the time. Recently, Echo's nerve strikes were ineffective and Elektra tried them with her sais, but had to apply pressure to keep him down in Enemy of the State. When she was knocked off balance, Wolverine got right back up. Castleking had proved the evidence for this in other threads, so I'm under the impression that nerves strikes from Batgil wouldn't be enough.

@Forever said:
"...."

Damn, dude. Welcome back. :)
#186 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

He read his moves with his telepathy. I don't see why Batgirl would need faster reaction time if Mr. X didn't. Do you think his telepathy gave him info long before Batgirl's body reading would? Peak humans like Captain America and T'Challa have engaged Wolverine without the advanced warning that Batgirl's abilities would provide. Seems to me like peak human speed plus body reading is enough.

Moderator
#187 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Buckshot said:
" Move reading and peak human ability were enough for Mr. X, why not Batgirl? "
Well, I hear Mr. X had an enhancement for that fight, and that he used nerve strikes to win. Thing is, nerve strikes have proven to be ineffective against Wolverine on several other occasions recently. There was a guy that used killer nerve strikes on Wolverine a long time ago to knock him out, but it was when his healing factor was waning at the time. Recently, Echo's nerve strikes were ineffective and Elektra tried them with her sais, but had to apply pressure to keep him down in Enemy of the State. When she was knocked off balance, Wolverine got right back up. Castleking had proved the evidence for this in other threads, so I'm under the impression that nerves strikes from Batgil wouldn't be enough.
She doesn't need nerve strikes to win. A KO will do.
Moderator
#188 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot: I feel you on the reaction time thing, but there's more to it than that. But, she's gonna need more than that.
#189 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:
"She doesn't need nerve strikes to win. A KO will do. "

It don't think that will work. Spider-Man couldn't KO Wolverine with punches.
#190 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgod wins.

#191 Edited by Mr.Pie (546 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither could WWH. Wolverine just kept coming back even after being punched across a forest.



#192 Posted by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio




#193 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
" @Buckshot said:
"She doesn't need nerve strikes to win. A KO will do. "
It don't think that will work. Spider-Man couldn't KO Wolverine with punches. "
Look at how a knockout works, Wolverine might recover faster, but them not working at all is just bad writing. And nerve pinches work too, even if he recovers from them (and he can be nerve pinched into unconsciousness). And Batgirl probably carries at least some knockout gas on her just in case.  (And if  you want to be really lame and say that because she's not at Hulk's strength then she can't knock him out, this fight is spite.)

Mr. Pie, Hulk did knock him out.
Moderator
#194 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

There is no way to know if telepathy would give you more warning time than body reading would, however if you are putting together a string of moves, at some point the position that you are in has little to do with the positions you would end up in later.  If someone was reading your body it would be possible at that time for you to go in more then one direction, while if someone is reading your mind, they would know exactly which move was next on your agenda.  So I'm inclined to say that the telepath has a little more forewarning.

Captain America and T'Challa do well against Wolverine, yet is that because of the up and down abilities he shows?  Half the time he is displayed as being a brawler who just runs into fights and the other half he is a top flight martial artist.  He comes across well in skill when fighting Cap or BP but then the fight is for entertainment value so we'll take that as him being written at his peak.  But then the question goes back to how much of a lead do you get from body reading?  You would probably have to be able to read the body well enough to be at least one move ahead, for it to be an advantage against someone who has exactly your level of reaciton time.  This, to me, is played out well in her fights with Batman, Shiva and Deathstroke.  While I would claim Batman to fall short of Cap or Wolverine's reaction time, they are shown to be able to contend with the peak human/body reading BG.

I think she will need more than just that to be able to defeat Wolverine.

#195 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
@Static Shock said:
"Damn, dude. Welcome back. :)"

Thanks my friend.
#196 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mr.Pie said:
" Neither could WWH. Wolverine just kept coming back even after being punched across a forest. "
You need to go reread the comic. He was knocked out for sometime, before engaging Hulk again.

@Buckshot said:
"Look at how a knockout works, Wolverine might recover faster, but them not working at all is just bad writing. And nerve pinches work too, even if he recovers from them (and he can be nerve pinched into unconsciousness). And Batgirl probably carries at least some knockout gas on her just in case.  (And if  you want to be really lame and say that because she's not at Hulk's strength then she can't knock him out, this fight is spite.)
I know how it works. It's just that with evidence that I've seen, Wolverine doesn't easily get knocked by people who aren't as strong as the Hulk, Thing, or Namor. If Spider-Man couldn't do it, then Batgirl can't either. If nerve pinches have proven to be ineffective over the years, why would they work now? Even with knockout gas, I think Wolverine's healing factor protects him from that. But, then again, I'm not a Wolverine expert.

#197 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio
@Buckshot said:
" @Static Shock said:
" @Buckshot said:
"She doesn't need nerve strikes to win. A KO will do. "
It don't think that will work. Spider-Man couldn't KO Wolverine with punches. "
Look at how a knockout works, Wolverine might recover faster, but them not working at all is just bad writing. And nerve pinches work too, even if he recovers from them (and he can be nerve pinched into unconsciousness). And Batgirl probably carries at least some knockout gas on her just in case.  (And if  you want to be really lame and say that because she's not at Hulk's strength then she can't knock him out, this fight is spite.)

Mr. Pie, Hulk did knock him out.
"
logan is immune to knockout gas. second the amount of pinch's would need to be an insane number and all lethal strikes since his HF is far above what it once was in the past when he could get ko'ed by lethal multiple nerve strikes.
also logan doesnt always tank his way in a fighthis calm MA  skills are just as much part of his CIS as is his tanking. when logan fights elite MA fighters he does revert back to his own MA skills to compete against them.

knockout riot control gas specifically tailored for him.





#198 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio
Batgirl's ability extends beyond reading whatever the next move is that her opponent's body is going to make. She's shown to read intentions, thoughts, feelings, plans. She knows moves that are being set up down the line. As soon as the enemy knows they are going to make certain moves (or even before if their body just makes it on reflex) their body sets it up in ways she can detect even if it's at the end of a string of moves. Do you think Deathstroke, master tactician, doesn't set up his fights knowing what he's going to do multiple moves down the line? Despite that, Batgirl is able to take him on and not be tagged. She's done the same with Batman, another fighter known for his planning. I think her move reading is at least equal to Mr. X's. Peak humans may contend with her but if you watch her fight it's clear how little effort she puts into avoiding moves most of the time. It seems to me like she doesn't take full advantage of the advantage it gives her, but that's just my idea. It obviously gives her enough of a lead because she uses it against Deathstroke, who's low level superhuman across the board and has made a name for himself showing off his reflexes, and she can still get around him. 

Wolverine not getting knocked out as often as he should is simply plot foolishness/wolverine love. But despite that he does get knocked out and it doesn't need to be from people at Hulk's level of strength. Deadpool's done it a few times that I know of, but lemme just stay with Mr. X as my main example in this fight because Batgirl fills in for him well. Mr. X knocked him out with a few blows to the head. (His buff bodyguard also knocked him out easily.) And I don't know why you say nerve strikes won't work. You even brought up Elektra and hers did exactly what she said they would. She chose strikes that only worked while she held them so she could talk to Wolverine, doesn't mean that others wouldn't work. But in any case, Batgirl could use her batarangs to keep his pressure points impaled and Wolverine wouldn't have outside distractions to shake them loose.

Wolverine's healing factor has actually been reduced. And it wouldn't matter if he tanked his way through or fought with skill. Batgirl would know his moves either way. (And looking at your second set, how often does he start with any skill? That was round two of a fight where he'd gotten stomped the first go round. Whenever he comes out with his calm, MA master stuff it's usually after a horrible beating he got when he fought like he normally does and then stumbles across some awesome sensei to teach him things which he'll quickly forget like he has time after time.)
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#199 Edited by castleking (24119 posts) - - Show Bio

both mr.X and blok were being possessed by ogun during their first encounter which was made evident in the bloodsport tournament in mandripoor. ogun was hiding inside both men while they were unaware of his presence while logan kept seein a demon face in mister X island which is why both blok and X were able to ko logan. a hit from a master MA fighter that can kill full grown buffalo's with a casual slap due to MA and mystic training. i like to see batgirl accomplish that. especially when Mr. X could no longer harm logan physically once he went semi berserk.

even with logans reduced HF he was taking lethal nerve strikes from shengin and they only ko'ed him. the second round shengin could no longer ko logan with his physical strikes.logan's HF may have bn reduced but we dont know  to what extent, i doubt it is the lvl he had in the 80's when it took him weeks and months to heal from sword cuts.


if you want to go by CIS and say logan will tank his way through the fight with batgirl and only use MA in a second encounter. i have to tell you logans 35 or so yrs history has show more consistency with logan relying on his fighting skill and not his HF. logan only recently started tanking his way through fight in the last five years. this year alone they have pulled back logan to his initial roots and have him back using and relying on MA skills. so if you want to use CIS how about you use the constant one and not low ball logan and try to use him at his worse to give batgirl a shot at beating him?

#200 Posted by Buckshot (18919 posts) - - Show Bio

Them being possessed doesn't mean their physical abilities were enhanced and it was said nowhere that it allowed them to knock him out. And he couldn't hurt him later when he was berserk because he barely got one hit on him when he couldn't predict his moves anymore. Even if you work with the idea that nerve strikes won't work if they aren't continually applied, Batgirl could still paralyze him with batarangs impaling his pressure points like Elektra did. His healing factor doesn't need to be from the 80s for him to be knocked out. I guess you didn't read where I said it wouldn't matter if he tanked or fought with skill (it's not like Shiva, Deathstroke, Batman or any of her similarly-trained sisters had any skill right?). But...if we were looking at it, it wouldn't matter if he used his martial arts more before. If for the last 5 years they've consistently shown him as a brawler, that's what the character has turned into. And by initial roots do you mean brawling with the Hulk? And they haven't really pulled him back to skills. Of course there are instances where he fights like he knows what he's doing (usually after intense training like in Chinatown), but he still brawls skilllessly far more often than he clearly uses his skills. (You know what I just did for fun? Looked at the last 20 or so comics Wolverine was in. Guess what I didn't see much of.)

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