"Listen, Vash's reflexes were so much better then these guys, it's not even funny. He fought an opponent who swing his sword so fast and hard, that he creates sonic blast. There is no technique involved other then just the power of his swing. He's extremely skilled and very powerful with his sword. And Vash blocked the sword with his gun. Can you imagine? A swing so powerful that it creates sonic blasts? And vash blocks it? All of his swings. His name is Rai-Dei. I've seen what he can do in the manga and he is very much more powerful then Draken and Batgirl. Not only does he have power, but he has speed and precision, discipline and training so harsh, the manga described it as nothing but pure horror.I've already stated how I think this fight will go down and none of this refutes any of my points. There is no proof that Rai-Dei is any faster than Batgirl or Daken and I've already addressed the strength issue.Vash takes out these guys"
Batgirl vs. Daken vs. Vash
"oldmagic said:I can prove it with scans....This guy has dodged bullets all his life. Especially in a world where guns are everything, life is cheap and death rate is high enough to easily trump Marvel's world filled with villeins."Listen, Vash's reflexes were so much better then these guys, it's not even funny. He fought an opponent who swing his sword so fast and hard, that he creates sonic blast. There is no technique involved other then just the power of his swing. He's extremely skilled and very powerful with his sword. And Vash blocked the sword with his gun. Can you imagine? A swing so powerful that it creates sonic blasts? And vash blocks it? All of his swings. His name is Rai-Dei. I've seen what he can do in the manga and he is very much more powerful then Draken and Batgirl. Not only does he have power, but he has speed and precision, discipline and training so harsh, the manga described it as nothing but pure horror.I've already stated how I think this fight will go down and none of this refutes any of my points. There is no proof that Rai-Dei is any faster than Batgirl or Daken and I've already addressed the strength issue."Vash takes out these guys"
I still don't see where you're getting that this guy is any faster than Cassy or Daken. Dodging bullets? That's a common occurrence in comics, Cassy can even dodge them after they've been fired. less than a micro-second? I must have missed that caption, where does it mention micro-seconds? In fact, I'd say this does more to hurt Vash's case than help it. Rai-Dei is human no? Well both Batgirl and Daken are peak human so they can't possibly be any slower than Rai-Dei, a guy was just dodging Vash's gunfire and ran him out of bullets. Besides all of this, it doesn't even matter if Vash is faster than his opponent, I've already factored that aspect of the fight into my analysis.
Look at the first two scans. Look at the distance and how fast he closed in on Vash. How long does 1 second take? Because even a second takes a while to reach. Vash is about six times as fast as a highly trained human. And he completely missed his opponent, who came up to his left in an instant. This is saying something. I'll make a debate about this later. I'm reading a manga.
So you just assumed it was a micro-second? There is nothing stating what amount of time it took for Rai-Dei to close the distance, it might have taken him five seconds. And who's to say that Batgirl and Daken are also not six times faster than a highly trained gunman? There is nothing to prove that Vash is any faster than Batgirl or Daken but that isn't the point. I have actually accepted the fact that Vash is faster than his opponents, I have factored that into my assessment and I still don't think Vash will win more times than not.
So while the Comics spoon feed the readers of every exact details, you assume that Vash's opponent is slow? five seconds?! Are you really serious?! Look again at that first scan and tell me how close he is to Vash. And Vash is six times as fast as a highly trained gunman because he said so himself in the chapters of the first volume. Manga is based on common sense and logic seeing as not much can be explained and much details were left out while DC/Marvel are nothing but information it's ridiculous. You don't think or say how a persons power is being effected to such precise details while someone is in a battle. It is very unrealistic. And this happens quite allot in american comics while manga's, it doesn't because it focuses on the story rather then their powers. And i calculated not by assumption but by an educated guess. It's not that hard to do wheres the american comics....again, as i said before, spoon feed the readers to the minute details.
"So while the Comics spoon feed the readers of every exact details, you assume that Vash's opponent is slow? five seconds?! Are you really serious?! Look again at that first scan and tell me how close he is to Vash. And Vash is six times as fast as a highly trained gunman because he said so himself in the chapters of the first volume. Manga is based on common sense and logic seeing as not much can be explained and much details were left out while DC/Marvel are nothing but information it's ridiculous. You don't think or say how a persons power is being effected to such precise details while someone is in a battle. It is very unrealistic. And this happens quite allot in american comics while manga's, it doesn't because it focuses on the story rather then their powers. And i calculated not by assumption but by an educated guess. It's not that hard to do wheres the american comics....again, as i said before, spoon feed the readers to the minute details.You can't prove that it took less than five seconds just as I can't prove that it took longer than a millisecond, that's the point. That scan doesn't prove anything.And if you believe that Vash isn't that fast, what makes you think he is even at Draken or Batgirl's level? Batgirl is also peak human, remember. And Vash's opponent was wearing roller blades, which he is quite well versed on how to use it along with his sword. Common sense dictates manga."
"oldmagic said:I tend to do that allot lol i get side tracked and then go with the comics vs manga."So while the Comics spoon feed the readers of every exact details, you assume that Vash's opponent is slow? five seconds?! Are you really serious?! Look again at that first scan and tell me how close he is to Vash. And Vash is six times as fast as a highly trained gunman because he said so himself in the chapters of the first volume. Manga is based on common sense and logic seeing as not much can be explained and much details were left out while DC/Marvel are nothing but information it's ridiculous. You don't think or say how a persons power is being effected to such precise details while someone is in a battle. It is very unrealistic. And this happens quite allot in american comics while manga's, it doesn't because it focuses on the story rather then their powers. And i calculated not by assumption but by an educated guess. It's not that hard to do wheres the american comics....again, as i said before, spoon feed the readers to the minute details.You can't prove that it took less than five seconds just as I can't prove that it took longer than a millisecond, that's the point. That scan doesn't prove anything.And if you believe that Vash isn't that fast, what makes you think he is even at Draken or Batgirl's level? Batgirl is also peak human, remember. And Vash's opponent was wearing roller blades, which he is quite well versed on how to use it along with his sword. Common sense dictates manga."I never disagreed that Vash could move six times faster than a trained gunman but even that doesn't prove anything because there's nothing to prove that Cassy or Daken aren't that fast or faster or slower.This whole speed thing is a moot point however since my original argument assumed Vash was faster than his opponents anyways (and I've told you this multiple times).I hope you don't mind if I skip the rest since it seems you are arguing comics vs. manga instead of Batgirl vs. Daken vs. Vash."
I thought we already went over this earlier in the thread, Vash would never use his angel arm on purpose unless it was to cancel out another angel arm like he did in the anime against Knives. Besides that, it takes time to charge, time he doesn't have against opponents like Cassy and Daken.
Perhaps Vash could find a way to use it without getting taken out himself but I still think he won't use it, if he's in character there is no reason to use it in this fight. At this point I appreciate any argument, you're at least better than the ones who drop a name without an argument.
"So Daken's ability to be where his opponent looking is another mutant ability of his or something? Where are you getting this? Regardless, it doesn't make much of a difference that I can see. My personal hypothesis is that if he starts off within sight of Cassy then her move reading would allow her to predict where he was going and thus never lose track of him. However, if Daken performs this ability when he's out of sight (like say, behind a crate or column) then it should work, move-reading only works if you can see your opponent. Still she has demonstrated an acute awareness of her surroundings, it's hard to call.I really got nothing. If i can, i would."But i do have to say one thing about Draken vs Batgirl. Draken's ability to be where his opponent isn't looking is a power, a type of ability. Batgirl's move reading ability is something she has been trained to utilize as a technique to be mastered. There is a difference. Otherwise people like Batman wouldn't have trouble taking out someone like Draken.Vash, he could take out both of them simply because he is the best marksmen there is. You can say that Batgirl dodged bullets at point black, so has vash. Funny thing is, Vash is also very good at move reading. There was the time where the police girl who held a gun at point blank, pointing at Vash's head less then a meter away. Vash managed to react in time to dodge the bullet just by predicting when the finger is going to push the trigger. This, i believe is the same basis as what Batgirl uses, the art of body reading.Batgirl, imo would be the first to be taken down simply because she won't be able to outlast either of the guys. Draken is a ferocious H2H specialist who even outclasses wolverine, combine with the ability to survive through almost anything gives him an edge of stamina and endurance.But where is this fight taking place? This is an important factor to take it in.
I don't know how manipulating another gunman fits into this fight and I've already addressed the best marksman thing, they don't prove or disprove anything. Keeping up with the horse thing, I think, is more a feat of traveling speed than stamina, they were only going like that for a minute or two but I suppose the fact that he wasn't even breathing hard afterwards shows something. I think he might have some superhuman stamina in which case I think he would outlast Cassy but I'm not so sure about Daken. Daken's healing factor actually eliminates the acidic build-up in his muscles so that his muscles don't tire. He just eventually runs out of energy I suppose. There's also the direct implication of his power, any injury Vash sustains he has to carry with him till the end of the fight and it will slow him down, Daken heals his injuries instantly. Also, in the first video Vash admits that he faints at the sight of blood, against someone like Daken that's going to be a real problem.
Just thought of something. What if Cassy could copy Daken's ability? I mean technically its not a super-power, it's just an ability Daken has developed after years of practice and Cassy has copied techniques before. Once again, I think it would depend on if Cassy saw Daken as he was starting the ability so she could use her move reading to keep track of him. If she succeeded in copying his ability then I think she would have a decent chance of winning.
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