Batgirl & Robin vs Punisher

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MrUnsmiley

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Team takes this. They don't use guns at all, so they aren't affected in any way. They still have all of their gadgets, and I doubt they'll stick to just h2h combat against a trained expert.

The smart thing to do would be to use their batarangs/explosive disks to keep him at range. Not sure if Robin has his electric batons that Nightwing has, but the no-guns rule makes this impossible to win for Punisher.

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Keenko

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#152  Edited By Keenko

@mrunsmiley: This week Punisher took down Ghost Rider with a sword and his own chain. OP says only weapons for close combat, so they don't have all their gadgets.

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MrUnsmiley

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@keenko: Then they don't have projectile weapons. They still have sticky bombs, metal staffs, tonfas, etc. The Bats make a habit of fighting street-level opponents and master tacticians, something that Ghost Rider wouldn't have as much experience in.

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Funsiized

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Team, Just cause boobs.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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@mrunsmiley: So that's the argument? They're going to blow Frank up or hit him with sticks? Really?

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Silent_Knight

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#156  Edited By Silent_Knight

@keenko: @i_like_swords: In a fair fight lady shiva is the greatest martial artist, or so its said, but usually she appears as a mercenary so it would make sense that she would lose if her opponent had to think of a way to fight her that wasn't h2h, which is usually the case. That being said

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I left out nothing big. Drake beat her pretty fairly (not that it will happen again). Her only real goal is to train someone so that they come back later stronger and challenge her to a duel to the death.

(Btw using the "people only hype up bat-related characters" defense repeatedly is pretty much "bat-related=op" defense in reverse. That give other debaters the argument that you wont recognize their strengths simply because they're in the batman's shadow)

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Keenko

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@mrunsmiley: I don't think sticky bombs count as close quarter weapons, otherwise Punisher can bring pumpkin bombs or other powerful explosives.

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senglord

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@dogsoldier88: The op says weapons for close quarters fighting only. That should limit the weapons to melee only.

Which Punisher would win if he were morals off. As it is, it is a toss up.

The team has numbers and durability on their side. Punisher has stats, skills, and feats to beat both if he goes for the kill.

But the team has the look, gear, and combat tactics of non killing vigilantes. He would pick up on that early in the fight. They may have knives and blades and lethal tools, but they will not use them against someone that could be killed by them.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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@senglord: Please enlighten us all as to how the team could possibly have an edge in durability?

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#161  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@keenko said:

@silent_knight:

I've literally never seen any feats from Shiva, I've only seen her getting beaten by others as feats.

Most of her "losses" are either PIS...or they have a complex context behind them...(plot devices).

Lady Shiva's back story (before the New 52):

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As you can see in the scans above, Sandra Woosan (her name, at the time), toke down most of the League of Assassins, by herself!...(Bronze Tiger, was among them)...and she only lost that fight, because David Cain (one of Batmans' master's/trainner's) sucker punched her.

Later, she stomped him, while being pregnant!

And here, during a conversation with Cassandra Cain (Lady Shiva's daughter), Bronze Tiger admits that only the entire League, could've taken down Shiva, and that, also, that fight happened a long time ago, and now, she's unbeatable:

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Also, Look at what Black Canary (another great fighter and a M.A expert) thinks about her:

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Now, through all of her story, (no-matter what version of her) Lady Shiva's goal, was always, to kill for money, so she could travel all around the globe, in search for the best fighters in the world, and the grand masters, so she could challange them to a death duel.

That's how she met Richard Dragon, who has also been stated to be the best fighter in the world, and at least, to be around Lady Shiva's level of skill...Lady Shiva faced him 1-on-1 and killed him, in combat:

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That was also, how she met Batman (who i belive, doesn't need a introduction)...they fought 1-on-1 and they looked equals, as they were stallemating during most of the fight, and actually it seemed like Lady Shiva was having the upper-hand...that was, untill Robin (Jason Todd) joined in, to help Batman:

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During the fight, Batman states that he thinks that he and Shiva are equals in skill.

This was also, how she met Connor Hawke:

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Beating Shadow Dragon 1-on-1, someone, who's speed has impressed, even Superman!:

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As for overall feats, such as technical skill, stricking power, bullet dodging, etc:

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Kills her daughter (Cassandra Cain) with one punch, and revives her, with another punch.

Killing her with one punch:

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And now, reviving her, with another punch:

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Other stuff:

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Bat_Girl_CC

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#162  Edited By Bat_Girl_CC

@i_like_swords said:

@senglord: Please enlighten us all as to how the team could possibly have an edge in durability?

They can't, at all!...i think he is confusing the Batgirl (Steph) with the Batgirl (Cass).

* Edit *

On a second thought...New 52 Tim Drake does have a pretty nice, Gear...which could arguably make him more durable than Frank...anyway, @senglord was the one, who remembered to point that out, so i won't "steal" his argument xd

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Silent_Knight

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@bat_girl_cc: thank you for posting literally everything i was too lazy to do myself. You da real mvp!

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Bat_Girl_CC

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@bat_girl_cc: thank you for posting literally everything i was too lazy to do myself. You da real mvp!

Lol, thanks! xD

Lady Shiva is so good, is not even funny!...just fighting her, and live to tell the story, is already an incredible feat!

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Bat_Girl_CC

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Off Topic:

This actually gave me an idea xD

@jayc1324 take a look at the post number #161, and tell me, how could Pre-New-52 Batman ever beat that beast, 1-on-1 H2H and without any prep or gadgets? :p