Cassandra Cain couldnt beat her the last time they met, if someone didnt blast Ravager off of Cassie it looked like she woulda got beheaded by Rose. The big dog is giving this to Ravager. To me Cassandra Cain seems washed up or maybe she just got lucky the first time she beat Rose (which wasnt by much).
Cassandra Cain couldnt beat her the last time they met, if someone didnt blast Ravager off of Cassie it looked like she woulda got beheaded by Rose. The big dog is giving this to Ravager. To me Cassandra Cain seems washed up or maybe she just got lucky the first time she beat Rose (which wasnt by much). "
That could explain why the blade is in Cassie's hands.
Cassandra Cain couldnt beat her the last time they met, if someone didnt blast Ravager off of Cassie it looked like she woulda got beheaded by Rose. The big dog is giving this to Ravager. To me Cassandra Cain seems washed up or maybe she just got lucky the first time she beat Rose (which wasnt by much). "
That could explain why the blade is in Cassie's hands. "
Yeah, but the blade is turned toward Batgirl's neck with Ravager saying she will cut Cassie's throat if she doesnt give up. It is also showing the sword shaking and Ravager only has one hand on it, while Cassie has two. Ravager was obviously overpowering her with the sword.
Injected with the same serum that enhanced her father Deathstroke, Rose has increased reflexes, stamina, and strength,but is also prone to psychotic episodes, such as when she gouged out her own eye to be more like her father. She has received some training from Nightwing, including the virtues of being a hero. She also possesses a precognitive sense that lets her see into the immediate future. This allows her to react to oncoming attacks against her and to counter them accordingly.
She currently wields twin energy katanas that can cut through anything except flesh, and briefly merge into an energy shield. She also carries with her a small stash of adrenaline, both because Clock King had briefly managed to make her addicted to the substance, and also because while high on adrenaline her precognitive sense evolves into the ability to glimpse scenes from her immediate future. However, the more she uses adrenaline to enhance her powers, the more her metabolism is unbalanced, straining her health.
Okay, Ravager is bigger than Cassie, but also has the enhanced strength. Cassandra was on her back and mounted by Ravager, with a sword next to her throat, being wielded by someone a lot stronger than her. I'm convinced the fight was over and that is why Ravager was cheap shotted from behind...to save Batgirl's life. Rose stated if Batgirl continued her throat would be cut, she was telling the truth since she can literally see the future.
Face it guys, Cassandra Cain may be good, but she cant win all her fights. Didnt Supergirl without powers own her too? I'm not surprised...the girl has too many holes in her game right now.
"Didnt Supergirl without powers own her too? I'm not surprised... "
Actually, Batgirl was going to kill her with red sun energy swords, until crystals came out of Supergirl's body and impaled her. Supergirl was nearly killed in that battle.
Cassandra Cain couldnt beat her the last time they met, if someone didnt blast Ravager off of Cassie it looked like she woulda got beheaded by Rose. The big dog is giving this to Ravager. To me Cassandra Cain seems washed up or maybe she just got lucky the first time she beat Rose (which wasnt by much). "
That could explain why the blade is in Cassie's hands. "
Yeah, but the blade is turned toward Batgirl's neck with Ravager saying she will cut Cassie's throat if she doesnt give up. It is also showing the sword shaking and Ravager only has one hand on it, while Cassie has two. Ravager was obviously overpowering her with the sword. "
Actually the blade is at a point between both of their heads, Ravager has no hands on the sword look at the pretty picture.
"Didnt Supergirl without powers own her too? I'm not surprised... "
Actually, Batgirl was going to kill her with red sun energy swords, until crystals came out of Supergirl's body and impaled her. Supergirl was nearly killed in that battle. "
Yeah, but she still couldn't beat a depowered Supergirl and that is the bottom line. If Rose had those swords she woulda went for the jugular quickly and won, she could see the future and would be able to dodge Supergirl's crystals. Hmmm...guess Cassandra Cain was too washed up to dodge those.
Actually the blade is at a point between both of their heads, Ravager has no hands on the sword look at the pretty picture.
Not true, her left hand is pressing against the side of the blade, her right hand is overpowering Cassie's hands. Look, I know there are a lot of Cassandra Cain fanboys but it is pretty obvious Cassie being on her back with Ravager on top of her and a sword shaking near Batgirl's throat is bad news for Batgirl.
Actually the blade is at a point between both of their heads, Ravager has no hands on the sword look at the pretty picture.
Not true, her left hand is pressing against the side of the blade, her right hand is overpowering Cassie's hands. Look, I know there are a lot of Cassandra Cain fanboys but it is pretty obvious Cassie being on her back with Ravager on top of her and a sword shaking near Batgirl's throat is bad news for Batgirl. "
Yes it's even worse news when the sword is in cassies hands.
Actually the blade is at a point between both of their heads, Ravager has no hands on the sword look at the pretty picture.
Not true, her left hand is pressing against the side of the blade, her right hand is overpowering Cassie's hands. Look, I know there are a lot of Cassandra Cain fanboys but it is pretty obvious Cassie being on her back with Ravager on top of her and a sword shaking near Batgirl's throat is bad news for Batgirl. "
Yes it's even worse news when the sword is in cassies hands. "
Batgirl admits she is amped up but thinking clearly.
Rose still dazed and getting jumped by Batgirl.
Batgirl cheapshotting Rose Only legit hit Batgirl lands in this fight...
Rose making Batgirl look amateur. Robin yells to Ravager to stop because he sees Batgirl is going down... Rose ready to finish Batgirl off before being hit from behind.
It's still pretty bad how Cassie jumps a weakened/exhausted Ravager and still ends up on her back with Ravager on top of her. No case can be made for Cassandra winning that scuffle, thats for sure. Ravager wasnt ready and didnt even want to fight yet came out on top obviously.
Robin yelling for Rose not to kill Batgirl also means Rose was winning. Use some logic, pup.
" Yeah, but she still couldn't beat a depowered Supergirl and that is the bottom line.
She was about to deal the killing blow. The crystals were an unexpected factor. If not for them, Supergirl would have died. The crystals, however, were just a plot device anyway.
@Klandicar: I'm clearly the big dog and you're the pup, why claim it's a cheapshot pup because you don't like it pup you can't debate like the big dogs and stop trying to get in the big dogs house, pup.
" Yeah, but she still couldn't beat a depowered Supergirl and that is the bottom line.
She was about to deal the killing blow. The crystals were an unexpected factor. If not for them, Supergirl would have died. The crystals, however, were just a plot device anyway. "
So? Supergirl was crawling on the ground helpless and Cassandra Cain thought it was a good idea do lay down with her and talk smack. Rose woulda just kept slashing until Supergirl wasnt moving anymore. Heh, she doesnt mess around from what I've seen of her.
Hmm, I think DS's daughter has Batgirl here. Especially based on their fights...
"
Yep, Batgirl generally has been outclassed by Rose. She only gets the upperhand from interference or cheapshots. I definitely can see the difference in skill between them though. Ravager is definitely one of the best h2h in DC.
Yeah, I also think it depends or might on the version of Batgirl but since it's Cassie yeah ^ lol. I think Barbara might have done better vs. Rose IMO but who knows right?
Hmm, I think DS's daughter has Batgirl here. Especially based on their fights...
"
Yep, Batgirl generally has been outclassed by Rose. She only gets the upperhand from interference or cheapshots. I definitely can see the difference in skill between them though. Ravager is definitely one of the best h2h in DC. "
I dont even know where to start. Since when has Batgirl been "Generally" outclassed by Rose? They've fought twice. Batgirl won the first bout (without any cheap shots) and simply outmaneuvered Rose to the point of humiliation. When Rose looked to her father cause she was completely lost as to what to do, Batgirl slit her throat. Second fight Rose won and Batgirl was drugged. Not to mention this is the same series that had Nightwing "one shot" Batgirl even though her characters established durability makes this feat ridiculous. So how exactly does Rose outclass Batgirl? What has Rose ever done that outclasses Batgirl? Who has Rose ever defeated that makes her one of the best H2H fighters in the DCU? Her Encyclopedia entry says she's a "Skilled Martial Artist." Batgirl's (Cassandra Cain) says, "One of the Greatest Martial Artists In the World; A Deadly Master of nearly ALL forms of unarmed combat."
I like Ravager, she's a badass character. I've read several issues and bios pertaining to her so I'm curious what exactly she's done that puts her so far above Batgirl? @Klandicar said:
" @Sha said:
"
"
Exactly. Just like Deathstroke humiliates Batman it is destiny that Rose beats Cassandra. "
You do know that this is just a cover? And in this issue Batgirl slits Rose's throat ;)
Cassandra is practically the best martial artist in the DC Universe and has beat Ravager's a$$ before and like Gambler said above the second time they fought Cassandra was drugged....I mean c'mon this is the girl who beat Lady Shiva twice
Hmm, I think DS's daughter has Batgirl here. Especially based on their fights...
"
Yep, Batgirl generally has been outclassed by Rose. She only gets the upperhand from interference or cheapshots. I definitely can see the difference in skill between them though. Ravager is definitely one of the best h2h in DC. "
I dont even know where to start. Since when has Batgirl been "Generally" outclassed by Rose? They've fought twice. Batgirl won the first bout (without any cheap shots) and simply outmaneuvered Rose to the point of humiliation. When Rose looked to her father cause she was completely lost as to what to do, Batgirl slit her throat. Second fight Rose won and Batgirl was drugged. Not to mention this is the same series that had Nightwing "one shot" Batgirl even though her characters established durability makes this feat ridiculous. So how exactly does Rose outclass Batgirl? What has Rose ever done that outclasses Batgirl? Who has Rose ever defeated that makes her one of the best H2H fighters in the DCU? Her Encyclopedia entry says she's a "Skilled Martial Artist." Batgirl's (Cassandra Cain) says, "One of the Greatest Martial Artists In the World; A Deadly Master of nearly ALL forms of unarmed combat."
I like Ravager, she's a badass character. I've read several issues and bios pertaining to her so I'm curious what exactly she's done that puts her so far above Batgirl? @Klandicar said:
" @Sha said:
"
"
Exactly. Just like Deathstroke humiliates Batman it is destiny that Rose beats Cassandra. "
You do know that this is just a cover? And in this issue Batgirl slits Rose's throat ;) "
Look, Batgirl was having major trouble in that fight because Rose's power is to see the future. Rose was NEW to the whole fighting/assassin game and barely lost due to a distraction. If her father wasnt there it wouldnt have happened. We saw what happened the second fight when there were no distractions for Batgirl to exploit, Cassandra Cain lost.
You see guys, Rose has improved her game a lot since this first fight. She's had on panel lightning dodging feats since then while Cassandra has been in a slump it seems like.
Not to mention this is the same series that had Nightwing "one shot" Batgirl even though her characters established durability makes this feat ridiculous.
She got kicked in the head, that certainly can KO a human like Cassie. What kind of durability do you expect her to have man? If Rose booted her in the head with a good shot she'd go down all the same.
Who cares if Batgirl beat her the first time before she skilled up. That's like beating Tiger Woods when he was 4 years old and claiming you are the best at golf. No one cares. Your scans even say "She'll get better to finish the job". Even Batgirl knows Ravager is her better. Why cant you guys?
what you don't understand is that Cassandra beat Lady Shiva, the best martial artist in the DC Universe, Ravager would last maybe a minute in a fight with Shiva, But Cassandra beat Shiva twice
" what you don't understand is that Cassandra beat Lady Shiva, the best martial artist in the DC Universe, Ravager would last maybe a minute in a fight with Shiva, But Cassandra beat Shiva twice "
Ravager could be better, she has precognition and enhanced speed, strength, and regeneration. It looked like she was above Cassie in their second fight to me. Cassie was getting kicked around like a lightweight. Perhaps Ravager's new powers close the gap between them if there is a martial arts difference.
Ravager had all that stuff the first time they fought...you have to understand that the second fight was PIS...Ravager was with the Teen Titans then and Batgirl was a villain of course Ravager is going to win the second fight....Cassandra has gone up against Lady Shiva and the League of Assasins and won
" Ravager had all that stuff the first time they fought...you have to understand that the second fight was PIS...Ravager was with the Teen Titans then and Batgirl was a villain of course Ravager is going to win the second fight....Cassandra has gone up against Lady Shiva and the League of Assasins and won "
Sounds like a double standard. Ravager as a villain the first time and the comic was called Batgirl. Of course Batgirl was going to win. She was new to being the Ravager when she fought Batgirl, that was like her initiation test by Deathstroke.
""Look, Batgirl was having major trouble in that fight because Rose's power is to see the future. Rose was NEW to the whole fighting/assassin game and barely lost due to a distraction. If her father wasnt there it wouldnt have happened. We saw what happened the second fight when there were no distractions for Batgirl to exploit, Cassandra Cain lost."
Major trouble? Rose doesn't land a shot, how is that having major trouble? Rose's ability to see the future comes and goes, its never been 100% accurate. She only sees glimpses/flashes. Batgirl can read people to such a precise degree that she knows what they are going to do before they do it. The first fight Batgirl had just gotten done fighting with Deathstroke and still had enough ability and acrobatic prowess to make Ravager look silly. Not only did Batgirl exploit Ravager's character flaw, she exploits the fact that she has no vision out of her left eye. Yeah, we saw what happened in the second fight, Ravager beat a drugged up Batgirl lol. You say Ravager wouldnt have lost the first fight if her father wouldnt have been there, and I say Batgirl wouldn't have lost the second fight had she not been drugged. Either way, two fights and two different victories doesn't sound like anyone outclassing to me.
@Klandicar said:
" You see guys, Rose has improved her game a lot since this first fight. She's had on panel lightning dodging feats since then while Cassandra has been in a slump it seems like.
Not to mention this is the same series that had Nightwing "one shot" Batgirl even though her characters established durability makes this feat ridiculous.
She got kicked in the head, that certainly can KO a human like Cassie. What kind of durability do you expect her to have man? If Rose booted her in the head with a good shot she'd go down all the same. Who cares if Batgirl beat her the first time before she skilled up. That's like beating Tiger Woods when he was 4 years old and claiming you are the best at golf. No one cares. Your scans even say "She'll get better to finish the job". Even Batgirl knows Ravager is her better. Why cant you guys? "
Dodging lightning is impressive, as far as reaction time and speed goes. It doesnt prove anything about her improving her skill game though. Slumped? She had a brief scuffle with Deathstroke in which she got the better of him, after he easily dispatched Ravager. Doesnt sound like slumping to me.
Nightwing actually punched her in the head. The fact that you think it would be enough to KO Cass only tells me you have very little knowledge of the character. She's already taken multiple shots from Nightwing on purpose during the "Bruce Wayne Fugitive" arc and it didn't knock her out, She's been hit by Malla h and it didn't knock her out, She's been hit by Batman and it didnt knock her out, she took several shots from Lady Shiva (without having her abilities even) and it didnt knock her out, and finally, Deathstroke clocked her with a weight and all she did was turn right around and slam his head into the wall. So no, one punch from Nightwing should not knock out Cassandra Cain. Batgirl knows Ravager is better? Where did you pull that gem from lol. I'm open to change my mind, really I am. Just provide some examples that would but Ravager above Batgirl. You mentioned the lightning dodging which I think is a badass feat. But who has Ravager beaten? What other impressive feats does she have? Batgirl has several well documented feats including strength, agility, acrobatics, and speed, and ma skills. What does Ravager have in that area?
" Ravager had all that stuff the first time they fought...you have to understand that the second fight was PIS...Ravager was with the Teen Titans then and Batgirl was a villain of course Ravager is going to win the second fight....Cassandra has gone up against Lady Shiva and the League of Assasins and won "
Sounds like a double standard. Ravager as a villain the first time and the comic was called Batgirl. Of course Batgirl was going to win. She was new to being the Ravager when she fought Batgirl, that was like her initiation test by Deathstroke. "
So why use either example then? Use other feats and fights that will help gauge where exactly Ravager fits. Like who has she fought and beaten that would lead someone to believe she is more skilled then Batgirl? Its already been mentioned that Batgirl beat Shiva. A character most people easily rank in the top three fighters in the DCU.
@danhimself: I'm gathering some for him. I don't want to seem bias, I really do like Ravager. But you are right, I dont think she has the same level of showings Batgirl does.
@Gambler: I like Ravager to but now that I've read most of Cassandra's appearances I can say that I believe without a doubt that Ravager doesn't stand a chance against Cassandra
" @Gambler: I like Ravager to but now that I've read most of Cassandra's appearances I can say that I believe without a doubt that Ravager doesn't stand a chance against Cassandra "
I was actually going to try and make a case for Ravager originally just to switch it up. Then I saw a couple posts that just didnt seem accurate and downplayed my girl lol.
" @Gambler: I like Ravager to but now that I've read most of Cassandra's appearances I can say that I believe without a doubt that Ravager doesn't stand a chance against Cassandra "
I was actually going to try and make a case for Ravager originally just to switch it up. Then I saw a couple posts that just didnt seem accurate and downplayed my girl lol. "
Why do you guys say the drugs made Cassandra Cain fight worse though? I'm pretty sure the drug amps the fighter up to be honest.
@Klandicar: yes she's able to dodge lightning blasts from opponents but since they're fired from people the same could be said about Batgirl who would be able to read their body movements and dodge the blasts
" @Klandicar: yes she's able to dodge lightning blasts from opponents but since they're fired from people the same could be said about Batgirl who would be able to read their body movements and dodge the blasts "
Precog is a more powerful ability than just reading movements. Sometimes Cassandra doesnt dodge when Ravager would have. I know Supergirl was the name of the comic but this proves you just can't read everything going by the body movements.
Did I mention Ravager beat the Clock King who sees 4 seconds into the future? So her precog must be on a similar level.
@Klandicar: yeah but clock king has almost no fighting abilities at all and again Batgirl was drugged during that fight and Supergirl was already beaten she was getting ready to finish her when those spikes came out of no where and since Supergirl has no mental control over the spikes then she wouldn't have made any movements to indicate that was going to happen so Batgirl would have been caught completely off guard....it took Batgirl all of a minute to adjust to Ravager's precod abilities and beat her
" @Klandicar: yeah but clock king has almost no fighting abilities at all and again Batgirl was drugged during that fight and Supergirl was already beaten she was getting ready to finish her when those spikes came out of no where and since Supergirl has no mental control over the spikes then she wouldn't have made any movements to indicate that was going to happen so Batgirl would have been caught completely off guard....it took Batgirl all of a minute to adjust to Ravager's precod abilities and beat her "
She beat a blinded and weakened Supergirl, so the beating Supergirl part isnt worth mentioning. The important part is that she is limited to reading movements, while Ravager can actually see into the future and plan a counter before the attack actually occurs, not while it is occurring. Even if Supergirl made no body movements to indicate spikes were coming out Ravager would have seen something dangerous coming and moved.
Okay, so Batgirl has one win on Ravager early in Ravager's career, a Ravager who was doing fine until she got distracted by her father's presence. Big deal. I say Cassie was amped by the drug and still lost to Ravager the second time. Ravager just improved a lot since her first fight with Cassie and I believe she can beat her based on recent showings, especially their last fight...
Clock King got beefed up a bit recently.
The new Clock King has the always-active ability to see what is about to happen four seconds or so into the future, allowing him to anticipate an opponent's every move. He is also a technological genius, creating devices such as teleporters, communications jamming equipment, and even an anti-gravity platform, all of them modelled after timepieces.
@Klandicar: dude she was not doing fine until she got distracted she was getting her a$$ handed to her before that and Ravagers precog doesn't always work while Batgirl's always does and while Clock King may be able to anticipate movements that doesn't mean he can always do something about it
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