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#1 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

A good fight, but when it all boils down, I think X-23 has it. Healing, adamantium, and an essential longevity.

#3 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

only her claws are adamantium you know.

#4 Posted by Copy (8336 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"only her claws are adamantium you know. "

??? i thought her entire body was

#5 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"only her claws are adamantium you know. "

Yeah, but adamantium claws (and foot claw things) help. So does berserker rage.

#6 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"Copy says:
"acewasp23 says:
"only her claws are adamantium you know. "
??? i thought her entire body was"
lol did you guys read the pages i posted. jk Her claws were extracted so they could bond Adamantium to them. she escaped before they could fuse the rest of her bones with Adamantium. "

Aaaand they couldn't anyway. It would have stunted her natural growth.

#7 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Copy says:

"acewasp23 says:
"only her claws are adamantium you know. "
??? i thought her entire body was"

lol did you guys read the pages i posted. jk

Her claws were extracted so they could bond Adamantium to them.

she escaped before they could fuse the rest of her bones with Adamantium.

#8 Posted by Octagon Enigma (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"Octagon Enigma says:
"Aaaand they couldn't anyway. It would have stunted her natural growth."
yeah i was answering copy. lol The claws could make a difference but X-23 has to hit Cain. LoL i don't know who would win i think they're equally matched in skill and they were both trained since birth. "

Therefore X would simply outlive Cain.

#9 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Octagon Enigma says:

"Aaaand they couldn't anyway. It would have stunted her natural growth."

yeah i was answering copy. lol

The claws could make a difference but X-23 has to hit Cain.

LoL i don't know who would win i think they're equally matched in skill and they were both trained since birth.

#10 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Octagon Enigma says:

"Therefore X would simply outlive Cain."

Ok that aside, who would win the battle? (you don't have to die to loose)

#11 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio
First of all ................... R.I.P.............. Acewasp23, Octagon Enigma, and Copy.


Anyways X-23 wins.
#12 Posted by The Man of Yesteryear (5502 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl.

#13 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

X-23 would win. Especially if she has her X-Force gear.

#14 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio

Gonna go with Batgirl on this one.

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#15 Posted by geraldthesloth (33313 posts) - - Show Bio

x-23 even though i hate both of these characters with a freakin passion

#16 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl. X-23 can have a healing factor, adamantium claws (but not an adamantium skeleton), and a berserker rage, but I don't think it would do much good against someone that fights much better than her, can read her every move before she does it, and can probably move faster than her, too.

#17 Edited by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Batgirl. X-23 can have a healing factor, adamantium claws (but not an adamantium skeleton), and a berserker rage, but I don't think it would do much good against someone that fights much better than her, can read her every move before she does it, and can probably move faster than her, too."
What proof is there that she does any of those things better than X? X-23 does not have a berserker rage.
#18 Posted by The Man of Yesteryear (5502 posts) - - Show Bio

Dodging a bullet after it has been fired:

#19 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

So she's a speedster?

#20 Posted by The Man of Yesteryear (5502 posts) - - Show Bio

She would of had to be moving at super-sonic speeds in order to dodge that bullet. And she can read X-23's every move.

#21 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"What proof is there that she does any of those things better than X? X-23 does not have a berserker rage."
Someone said that she did. Even if she had it, it wouldn't make a difference. Anyway, there have been several instances of Batgirl anticipating her opponent's moves by reading body language, which is a part of her fighting style. This abillity helped her fight against people like Deathstroke (who was unable to hit her in both encounters), her mom, Lady Shiva (whom she's already defeated), and a bunch of others. When she was 8, she easily beat down a bunch of grown men. She's dodged bullets from snipers and bullets at point blank range. She even took out a bunch of thugs so fast that they didn't even know who was attacking them. She's been trained by the best (her parents, especially her dad, David Cain, Bronze Tiger, and Batman), and has been trained to fight and kill since she was a baby.
#23 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
She can also duplicate moves (like Taskmaster) Gets slashed by Bronze Tiger, then turns around and delivers a slash of her own.
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#24 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"So she's a speedster?"

She's considered to have peak-human speed without being considered meta-human.
#25 Posted by King Saturn (223834 posts) - - Show Bio
Cassie is Hot Shiznit  !  And I think she would edge out X-23 in an Epic Battle... Hagler vs Hearns style  !

lol
#26 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Slinger said:
"So she's a speedster?"

She's considered to have peak-human speed without being considered meta-human."
So that ridiculous bullet scan can be thrown out?

@Gambler: If she gets slashed by X she's not getting up.

Anyway I'm not really as up for the argument as I thought so I concede.
#27 Edited by The Man of Yesteryear (5502 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
So that ridiculous bullet scan can be thrown out?
She has dodged bullets after they have been fired more than once.
#28 Edited by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"So that ridiculous bullet scan can be thrown out?
No. Because a lot of other street level characters do the same thing. Like Shang Chi. He's a bullet timer also. And, Captain America as well, because he can see faster than bullets move. It's all in the reflexes department. It doesn't have much to do with speed.

Slinger said:
"@Gambler: If she gets slashed by X she's not getting up.
If Deathstroke can't hit her, then neither can X-23. LOL.
#29 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

Seeing and moving are different things. Anyway, I've seen worse than Deathstroke hit her.

#30 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"Seeing and moving are different things."
Just like reflexes and speed are two different thing.

Slinger said:
Anyway, I've seen worse than Deathstroke hit her."
I've seen Deathstroke stalemated by Green Arrow in a swordfight. Doesn't mean much, you know?
#31 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
So that ridiculous bullet scan can be thrown out?

@Gambler: If she gets slashed by X she's not getting up.


1. Maybe if that was the only time she had ever done something like that. But she routinely dodges bullets (after they've been fired).

2. I agree. Although the slash wasn't the point I was making. The ability to mimic her opponents moves was what I was trying to express.

Both sides have a strong case. Its just my opinion that Batgirl is better.
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#32 Edited by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"Just like reflexes and speed are two different thing."
Yeah, kinda my point. Your reflexes could recognize that a shot is fired or someone is going to kick you in the teeth, but you aren't fast enough to move out of the way. Not really saying she can't do it, but I am saying she shouldn't be able to.
#33 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Both sides have a strong case. Its just a fact that Batgirl is better."

LOL.
#34 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"Yeah, kinda my point. Your reflexes could recognize that a shot is fired or someone is going to kick you in the teeth, but you aren't fast enough to move out of the way. Not really saying she can't do it, but I am saying she shouldn't be able to."

Reflexes is how you respond/react to an attack, mainly dodging/evading/blocking. Having the reflexes to dodge a bullet would also mean being fast enough to move out of the way before getting hit by it. Speed (how fast a person moves on foot) is different from that.
#35 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"Yeah, kinda my point. Your reflexes could recognize that a shot is fired or someone is going to kick you in the teeth, but you aren't fast enough to move out of the way. Not really saying she can't do it, but I am saying she shouldn't be able to."
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#36 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said, I'm sure she can do these things, she just shouldn't be able to because she is supposedly not metahuman. If she does something she can do it though I guess, doesn't mean I have to like it though.

#37 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"doesn't mean I have to like it though."
Hahahaha I'm using that
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#38 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

#39 Posted by No_Name_ (17403 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"Seeing and moving are different things. Anyway, I've seen worse than Deathstroke hit her."
And even if worse than Deathstroke has hit her, she bites back- hard. Her training is completely centered around anticipating her opponent's next move which is why she had to rely on her other senses. She was never taught self defense (I don't think,) 
#40 Edited by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
BatgirlBabs said:
" She was never taught self defense (I don't think,) "
Yeah, Batman taught her defense. After her first fight with Shiva she lost her body reading ability. So Batman taught her self defense. (she later got her body reading ability back)
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#41 Posted by Alexander Anderson (4030 posts) - - Show Bio
Slinger said:
"Like I said, I'm sure she can do these things, she just shouldn't be able to because she is supposedly not metahuman. If she does something she can do it though I guess, doesn't mean I have to like it though."
I feel the same way.  If DC wants her to be a bullet-timer, fine, but don't pretend she's just a highly trained human.  No normal human, regardless of training, can dodge a bullet the way she does.  Dodge aim maybe, like Nightwing does routinely, but not outright dodge the bullet.  But hey, it is what it is. 

As to the battle at hand, I acknowledge that Batgirl is faster and probably more skilled* than X-23.  I just don't think the margin is great enough to give her the win the majority of the time.  At most I see it as a 50/50 split.  X-23's advantage in durability and weaponry would be somewhat offset by the speed, skill and agility of Cassandra, but it's not like Batgirl is impossible to tag.  Robin managed to land multiple solid blows, and he's not a bullet-timer as far as I know.

*whatever that means.  Seriously, they're both at a very high level in terms of martial arts expertise, and I don't expect that either will have many surprises for the other in that regard.
#42 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
Alexander Anderson said:
I feel the same way.  If DC wants her to be a bullet-timer, fine, but don't pretend she's just a highly trained human.  No normal human, regardless of training, can dodge a bullet the way she does.  Dodge aim maybe, like Nightwing does routinely, but not outright dodge the bullet.  But hey, it is what it is. 

Her aggregate speed is meta, they explain it more in this scan:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/2532/638274-batgirl14pg048nw_super.jpg



As to the battle at hand, I acknowledge that Batgirl is faster and probably more skilled* than X-23.  I just don't think the margin is great enough to give her the win the majority of the time. 

X-23 could never land a hit on her, the only way she possibly could is if Cass didn't know about her claws. Throughout X-23's series she's never shown speed enough to match Cassandras. There's a great cover of her slicing through bullets being fired at her, It'd be cool if she was really that quick.

At most I see it as a 50/50 split.  X-23's advantage in durability and weaponry would be somewhat offset by the speed, skill and agility of Cassandra, but it's not like Batgirl is impossible to tag.  Robin managed to land multiple solid blows, and he's not a bullet-timer as far as I know.

Robin landing a hit on her is poorly written material, and the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her. That one Robin loss vs. her routine showings of dodging bullets and moving quicker then people can blink are gapped way to large to even consider that Robin fight as valid evidence.

*whatever that means.  Seriously, they're both at a very high level in terms of martial arts expertise, and I don't expect that either will have many surprises for the other in that regard.

The speed difference is way to high though, X-23 is moving in slow motion to Cassandra.

Sorry to split up your response, just easier to make a rebuttal.
#43 Posted by NightFang (9907 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl wins.

#44 Posted by Baby Vegeta (168 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm goin with X-23

#45 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"

Robin landing a hit on her is poorly written material, and the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her. That one Robin loss vs. her routine showings of dodging bullets and moving quicker then people can blink are gapped way to large to even consider that Robin fight as valid evidence.

Well, I wouldn't say all that. In a stand-up fight (which was what they had briefly), Robin wouldn't have been able to land a punch, but he did grab her cape and slam her into the ground, followed by some pummeling punches. After being slammed face-first, there was nothing she could do. It would have been different if Robin had never attempted to slam her like that.
#46 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
Static Shock said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"

Robin landing a hit on her is poorly written material, and the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her. That one Robin loss vs. her routine showings of dodging bullets and moving quicker then people can blink are gapped way to large to even consider that Robin fight as valid evidence.

Well, I wouldn't say all that. In a stand-up fight (which was what they had briefly), Robin wouldn't have been able to land a punch, but he did grab her cape and slam her into the ground, followed by some pummeling punches. After being slammed face-first, there was nothing she could do. It would have been different if Robin had never attempted to slam her like that."

Omg, okay, I have GOT to see this fight. A scenario I'm thinking of is, the two standing face to face 20 ft. apart and they're ready to do what it takes to KO the other, I don't think the dreaded plot device cape would save Tim from something like that.
#47 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"Robin landing a hit on her is poorly written material, and the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her.
Wrong.
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#48 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"Robin landing a hit on her is poorly written material, and the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her.
Wrong."
Okay, I'll bite.... Why, good sir? I also want to add, when you pick one sentence of someones rebuttal and give one word answers that contradict said sentence, it comes across as bickering. Are you bickering?
#49 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84651 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"Okay, I'll bite.... Why, good sir? I also want to add, when you pick one sentence of someones rebuttal and give one word answers that contradict said sentence, it comes across as bickering. Are you bickering?"
lol is that how it comes across? I'm simply pointing out your inaccurate statement.


"LegendaryKYJ said:
" the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her.
This is incorrect (sir :D) She's been touched by Green Arrow, knocked out by Nightwing, beat down by some scrub in her solo series, Blasted by Mr. Freeze's gun, and those are just off the top of my head.
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#50 Posted by Slinger (7640 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"Okay, I'll bite.... Why, good sir? I also want to add, when you pick one sentence of someones rebuttal and give one word answers that contradict said sentence, it comes across as bickering. Are you bickering?"
lol is that how it comes across? I'm simply pointing out your inaccurate statement.


"LegendaryKYJ said:
" the only instance of someone much much slower ever being able to touch her.
This is incorrect (sir :D) She's been touched by Green Arrow, knocked out by Nightwing, beat down by some scrub in her solo series, Blasted by Mr. Freeze's gun, and those are just off the top of my head.
"
I could have sworn I've seen Barbara get her too.