@reaverlation: I'm also a stealth gamer. I pop a silencer on my 50 cal. haha. Pop everyone from a good distance. I've made some crazy shots and I feel like a champ.
Most of crazy shots were with the bow :D.I completed the achievement "toxopholite" 1st try (Kill a target from 70m or more with the bow)and felt awesome.
He has insane pre-crisis feats too (pre-crisis KK is post-crisis KK), eh the Batman feat was PIS, because he literally one-shotted Batman in the Lightning Saga.Cass is definitely one of the best written characters in a long time, and most interesting Bat Girl, I'm sure she'll come to make some of those comic fans angry ;D
I thought Batman stood toe to toe with KK in the Lightning Saga (granted KK was dying or something) and then used Black Lightning to take him by surprise?
@jashro44: Its been awhile since I read the arc but I'm fairly certain something was wrong with him internally. Either way, didnt remember ever seeing KK one-shot Batman in that story.
@gambler: @pokeysteve: Karate kid was suffering amnesia so its hard to say if he is at his peak:
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I'm very familiar with the fight but this is the second thread I've seen Frozen say that KK one shotted Batman in this fight and wanted HIM to post the scan. Obviously he is wrong and it's a great fight with hits on both sides. It's pretty clear KK knows his stuff judging by their own commentary.
Here is where NW stalemates the great Cass. To be fair NW was getting a strong push since they also had him defeat Ra's, and stalemate Deathstroke himself while he dawned the Batman outfit. But Cap is just to enhanced for Cass over all.
Yeah...getting his ass kicked, and getting asked if he "had enough?"...looks like a stallemate to me...lol
Besides, the 2 hits that he landed on her, are PIS
2 hits just like her and then putting her in a hold counter at the end of the fight. Way to not understand the battle. PIS nothing. Green arrow has hit her, Batman has hit her, Shiva has hit her, Robin has hit her. Cass admitted Slade is faster then her and NW special agility has given Slade problems at times.
Here is where NW stalemates the great Cass. To be fair NW was getting a strong push since they also had him defeat Ra's, and stalemate Deathstroke himself while he dawned the Batman outfit. But Cap is just to enhanced for Cass over all.
Yeah...getting his ass kicked, and getting asked if he "had enough?"...looks like a stallemate to me...lol
Besides, the 2 hits that he landed on her, are PIS
2 hits just like her and then putting her in a hold counter at the end of the fight. Way to not understand the battle. PIS nothing. Green arrow has hit her, Batman has hit her, Shiva has hit her, Robin has hit her. Cass admitted Slade is faster then her and NW special agility has given Slade problems at times.
A far cry from PIS.
Dude, why do you keep insisting in the same thing??...I've already adressed all of this before, you keep replying to me, but you don't read my coments!...
Green arrow HAD to cheat to avoid getting owned (by putting his fingers on cassandra's mask...what a lame way to get an advantage...)...Do you really want to make a case of this? lol
Batman hit cassandra when she didn't have her body Reading! when she got it back, she owned him:
Lady Shiva is arguably the best fighter in the world! so what's the surprise of her hitting cassandra? can cap land hits on shiva? i don't know if he can...the best that Batman did, was stallemating with her...
Besides, lady shiva can also read body language, like cassandra cain, even tho, her body Reading, isn't has good as cassandra's, because shiva didn't endure the same things that cass had to endure, shiva learned it like she learns any other fighting technique, by training...while cass was basicaly, abused, tortured, shotted, beaten up, untill the point that she was able, to feel no pain...dodge bullets with ease...and mostly body read the moves of her oponents...when shiva was still a very young child, she was playing around with her old sister, but around the same age cass was being trained to be a killing a machine, even before she learn how to speak!
Robin landing hits on cass, is PIS...he can't, and shouldn't be able to land any hits one her...the figh that you posted was when Tim Drake was still just Robin...but i can post scans of cass training him, when he was already Red Robin, and he wasn't able to land any hits on her! and cass was training him, because, obviously, she's just better than him...
Slade is an established meta-human, so it's only natural that he's faster than cass, but that didn't help him much on his fights with her, since he has never hit her once! and i can post scans of thei're fights if you want:
Here is where NW stalemates the great Cass. To be fair NW was getting a strong push since they also had him defeat Ra's, and stalemate Deathstroke himself while he dawned the Batman outfit. But Cap is just to enhanced for Cass over all.
Yeah...getting his ass kicked, and getting asked if he "had enough?"...looks like a stallemate to me...lol
Besides, the 2 hits that he landed on her, are PIS
2 hits just like her and then putting her in a hold counter at the end of the fight. Way to not understand the battle. PIS nothing. Green arrow has hit her, Batman has hit her, Shiva has hit her, Robin has hit her. Cass admitted Slade is faster then her and NW special agility has given Slade problems at times.
A far cry from PIS.
Dude, why do you keep insisting in the same thing??...I've already adressed all of this before, you keep replying to me, but you don't read my coments!...
Green arrow HAD to cheat to avoid getting owned (by putting his fingers on cassandra's mask...what a lame way to get an advantage...)...Do you really want to make a case of this? lol
GA wreked her mask and the kick dropped her and made her look like an amateur.
You do realize that Green Arrow and her had another fight with him hitting her and dodging her strike?? The one you talk is not the only one and he was hold back to the point that he was able to catch her strikes and hold her in place.Seriously everyone has hit Cass. Don't act like it is PIS to avoid the truth of it.
Batman hit cassandra when she didn't have her body Reading! when she got it back, she owned him:
I'm starting to think everything you say is just to make Cass look great but you ignore everything else. Here is Batman hitting Cass in a actual fight. Nightwing himself had to save BG from getting hit more from Batman. While you just gloat over her training dodging.
Lady Shiva is arguably the best fighter in the world! so what's the surprise of her hitting cassandra? can cap land hits on shiva? i don't know if he can...the best that Batman did, was stallemating with her...
Besides, lady shiva can also read body language, like cassandra cain, even tho, her body Reading, isn't has good as cassandra's, because shiva didn't endure the same things that cass had to endure, shiva learned it like she learns any other fighting technique, by training...while cass was basicaly, abused, tortured, shotted, beaten up, untill the point that she was able, to feel no pain...dodge bullets with ease...and mostly body read the moves of her oponents...when shiva was still a very young child, she was playing around with her old sister, but around the same age cass was being trained to be a killing a machine, even before she learn how to speak!
Lady Shiva is very good but Cass is a hair better. But Cap is a super soldier guy is enhanced and his stats if you know anything are much...much better then either Cass or Shiva. Dude has been quoted at the next step in human evolution.
Robin landing hits on cass, is PIS...he can't, and shouldn't be able to land any hits one her...the figh that you posted was when Tim Drake was still just Robin...but i can post scans of cass training him, when he was already Red Robin, and he wasn't able to land any hits on her! and cass was training him, because, obviously, she's just better than him...
Again training fights is not as accurate as a real fight.
Slade is an established meta-human, so it's only natural that he's faster than cass, but that didn't help him much on his fights with her, since he has never hit her once! and i can post scans of thei're fights if you want:
slade can't beat cassandra, H2H or with weapons! in fact, slade himself has admited it to cass:
Big deal. Batman has defeated Slade once unlike Cass and Cap has defeated the enhanced the much more superior characters over Slade. (But they lack Slades skill.)
Here is where NW stalemates the great Cass. To be fair NW was getting a strong push since they also had him defeat Ra's, and stalemate Deathstroke himself while he dawned the Batman outfit. But Cap is just to enhanced for Cass over all.
Yeah...getting his ass kicked, and getting asked if he "had enough?"...looks like a stallemate to me...lol
Besides, the 2 hits that he landed on her, are PIS
2 hits just like her and then putting her in a hold counter at the end of the fight. Way to not understand the battle. PIS nothing. Green arrow has hit her, Batman has hit her, Shiva has hit her, Robin has hit her. Cass admitted Slade is faster then her and NW special agility has given Slade problems at times.
A far cry from PIS.
Dude, why do you keep insisting in the same thing??...I've already adressed all of this before, you keep replying to me, but you don't read my coments!...
Green arrow HAD to cheat to avoid getting owned (by putting his fingers on cassandra's mask...what a lame way to get an advantage...)...Do you really want to make a case of this? lol
GA wreaked her mask and the kick dropped her and made her look like an amateur.
You do realize that Green Arrow and her had another fight with him hitting her and dodging her strike?? The one you talk is not the only one and he was hold back to the point that he was able to catch her strikes and hold her in place.Seriously everyone has hit Cass. Don't act like it is PIS to avoid the truth of it.
Batman hit cassandra when she didn't have her body Reading! when she got it back, she owned him:
I'm starting to think everything you say is just to make Cass look great but you ignore everything else. Here is Batman hitting Cass in a actual fight. Nightwing himself had to save BG from getting hit more from Batman. While you just gloat over her training dodging.
Lady Shiva is arguably the best fighter in the world! so what's the surprise of her hitting cassandra? can cap land hits on shiva? i don't know if he can...the best that Batman did, was stallemating with her...
Besides, lady shiva can also read body language, like cassandra cain, even tho, her body Reading, isn't has good as cassandra's, because shiva didn't endure the same things that cass had to endure, shiva learned it like she learns any other fighting technique, by training...while cass was basicaly, abused, tortured, shotted, beaten up, untill the point that she was able, to feel no pain...dodge bullets with ease...and mostly body read the moves of her oponents...when shiva was still a very young child, she was playing around with her old sister, but around the same age cass was being trained to be a killing a machine, even before she learn how to speak!
Lady Shiva is very good but Cass is a hair better. But Cap is a super soldier guy is enhanced and his stats if you know anything are much...much better then either Cass or Shiva. Dude has been quoted at the next step in human evolution.
Robin landing hits on cass, is PIS...he can't, and shouldn't be able to land any hits one her...the figh that you posted was when Tim Drake was still just Robin...but i can post scans of cass training him, when he was already Red Robin, and he wasn't able to land any hits on her! and cass was training him, because, obviously, she's just better than him...
Again training fights is not as accurate as a real fight.
Slade is an established meta-human, so it's only natural that he's faster than cass, but that didn't help him much on his fights with her, since he has never hit her once! and i can post scans of thei're fights if you want:
slade can't beat cassandra, H2H or with weapons! in fact, slade himself has admited it to cass:
Big deal. Batman has defeated Slade once. unlike Cass and Cap has defeated the enhanced the much more superior characters over Slade. (But they lack Slades skill.)Actually Slade just admitted he can beat her by getting in her head. Didn't you know that most fighters will say a fight is 90 percent mental. All boxers and MMA fighters agree with this.
" GA wreaked her mask and the kick dropped her and made her look like an amateur. "
LOL!...so getting your ass kicked, and have to put your fingers in your oponents mask, to avoid getting further owned, is making him look like na amauter?...lol, that's a new one!...you know, in WWE when a wrestler is getting is ass kicked, and is oponent puts a finger on his eyes, the guys that are commenting the matches, call that a "CHEAP SHOT"...like a said before..."cheating"...green arrow had to cheat to avoid getting owned!...now, obviously, i know that wrestling is fake, and it's a TV show for entertainement purposes, but it was just an example, to show you, that what Ollie did was not fighting, it was CHEATING! and he did it, because he was getting his ass kicked, and would eventually lose.
" You do realize that Green Arrow and her had another fight with him hitting her and dodging her strike?? The one you talk is not the only one and he was hold back to the point that he was able to catch her strikes and hold her in place. "
and do you realize that the Green Arrow you're talking bout, is Connor Hawke and not Oliver Queen, right?...Ollie, was the one that got owned and had to cheat...Connor Hawke was the one that stallemated cassandra! and Connor Hawke could probably beat Batman
"Seriously everyone has hit Cass.Don't act like it is PIS to avoid the truth of it. "
very few people did, and the ones who did, they mostly got their asses kicked
" I'm starting to think everything you say is just to make Cass look great but you ignore everything else. Here is Batman hitting Cass in a actual fight. Nightwing himself had to save BG from getting hit more from Batman. While you just gloat over her training dodging. "
the fight that you posted didn't even really happen, it was an ellusion! lol, try to find real ones next time
" Big deal. Batman has defeated Slade once "
yeah he did...he sucker punched him...i don't call that a clean victory...and while cass never defeated slade either, she owned him twice, thei're fights never ended with a clear winner, mostly because in both ocasions, slade run away
@frozen: I havent read alot of comics with him, I did read the JLA arc in which he had been brainwashed and fought Batman. He seemed far less formidable in that then the other showings I had seen (or heard about). Cass has been one of my fav characters for a long time now. Always hopeful she'll return to me :P
Me to :) rumors say that many characters will be introduced and reintroduced in the new 52 in April and May this year
This is one of the reasons why team 2 wins. Sure in a martial arts tournament team one would win, but in an actual out and out fight Bats and Cap always pull through. They are legends for a reason. They are superior tactically and have the feats and gadgets to win this one.
This is one of the reasons why team 2 wins. Sure in a martial arts tournament team one would win, but in an actual out and out fight Bats and Cap always pull through. They are legends for a reason. They are superior tactically and have the feats and gadgets to win this one.
yeah, sometimes Batman cheats to, but he doesn't like to...anyhow, just because a fight ended in away today, it doesn't mean it will always end in the same way, that's way we're debating what advantages each character has over the other(s) to see who would take the majority of wins...and to me, Batman and cap wouldn't take the majority here at all...
" GA wreaked her mask and the kick dropped her and made her look like an amateur. "
LOL!...so getting your ass kicked, and have to put your fingers in your oponents mask, to avoid getting further owned, is making him look like na amauter?...lol, that's a new one!...you know, in WWE when a wrestler is getting is ass kicked, and is oponent puts a finger on his eyes, the guys that are commenting the matches, call that a "CHEAP SHOT"...like a said before..."cheating"...green arrow had to cheat to avoid getting owned!...now, obviously, i know that wrestling is fake, and it's a TV show for entertainement purposes, but it was just an example, to show you, that what Ollie did was not fighting, it was CHEATING! and he did it, because he was getting his ass kicked, and would eventually lose.
And in that one face it she got own and tossed aside and then he had to save her from a crocodile. Rookie "indeed" :)
" You do realize that Green Arrow and her had another fight with him hitting her and dodging her strike?? The one you talk is not the only one and he was hold back to the point that he was able to catch her strikes and hold her in place. "
and do you realize that the Green Arrow you're talking bout, is Connor Hawke and not Oliver Queen, right?...Ollie, was the one that got owned and had to cheat...Connor Hawke was the one that stallemated cassandra! and Connor Hawke could probably beat Batman
Irrelevant since Connor is also Green Arrow. My point remains that same that you avoided that issue and Connor vs Bat is another subject in itself. But my point remains the same that A list fighter and even up B-listers do tag Cass and stalemate her. The point remains.
"Seriously everyone has hit Cass.Don't act like it is PIS to avoid the truth of it. "
very few people did, and the ones who did, they mostly got their asses kicked
Or stalemated or made her look like a rookie at times. Hey it happens.
" I'm starting to think everything you say is just to make Cass look great but you ignore everything else. Here is Batman hitting Cass in a actual fight. Nightwing himself had to save BG from getting hit more from Batman. While you just gloat over her training dodging. "
the fight that you posted didn't even really happen, it was an ellusion! lol, try to find real ones next time
ellusion. LOL Nope Batman tagged her left and right.
" Big deal. Batman has defeated Slade once "
yeah he did...he sucker punched him...i don't call that a clean victory...and while cass never defeated slade either, she owned him twice, thei're fights never ended with a clear winner, mostly because in both ocasions, slade run away
Wrong again. Batman KOed Slade while Slade drew his sword on him. The other time was a sneak attack.
Anyways. Cap is over all to much in the heavy stats for Cass. Her saving grace is her skills and she'll give him a match at times but Cap's faster healing, enhanced mind, enhanced durability of surviving building falls and falls without parachutes would cripple Cass.
But then again Cap is a super soldier. He can tank stuff like this.
" GA wreaked her mask and the kick dropped her and made her look like an amateur. "
LOL!...so getting your ass kicked, and have to put your fingers in your oponents mask, to avoid getting further owned, is making him look like na amauter?...lol, that's a new one!...you know, in WWE when a wrestler is getting is ass kicked, and is oponent puts a finger on his eyes, the guys that are commenting the matches, call that a "CHEAP SHOT"...like a said before..."cheating"...green arrow had to cheat to avoid getting owned!...now, obviously, i know that wrestling is fake, and it's a TV show for entertainement purposes, but it was just an example, to show you, that what Ollie did was not fighting, it was CHEATING! and he did it, because he was getting his ass kicked, and would eventually lose.
And in that one face it she got own and tossed aside and then he had to save her from a crocodile. Rookie "indeed" :)
" You do realize that Green Arrow and her had another fight with him hitting her and dodging her strike?? The one you talk is not the only one and he was hold back to the point that he was able to catch her strikes and hold her in place. "
and do you realize that the Green Arrow you're talking bout, is Connor Hawke and not Oliver Queen, right?...Ollie, was the one that got owned and had to cheat...Connor Hawke was the one that stallemated cassandra! and Connor Hawke could probably beat Batman
Irrelevant since Connor is also Green Arrow. My point remains that same that you avoided that issue and Connor vs Bat is another subject in itself. But my point remains the same that A list fighter and even up B-listers do tag Cass and stalemate her. The point remains.
"Seriously everyone has hit Cass.Don't act like it is PIS to avoid the truth of it. "
very few people did, and the ones who did, they mostly got their asses kicked
Or stalemated or made her look like a rookie at times. Hey it happens.
" I'm starting to think everything you say is just to make Cass look great but you ignore everything else. Here is Batman hitting Cass in a actual fight. Nightwing himself had to save BG from getting hit more from Batman. While you just gloat over her training dodging. "
the fight that you posted didn't even really happen, it was an ellusion! lol, try to find real ones next time
ellusion. LOL Nope Batman tagged her left and right.
" Big deal. Batman has defeated Slade once "
yeah he did...he sucker punched him...i don't call that a clean victory...and while cass never defeated slade either, she owned him twice, thei're fights never ended with a clear winner, mostly because in both ocasions, slade run away
Wrong again. Batman KOed Slade while Slade drew his sword on him. The other time was a sneak attack.
Anyways. Cap is over all to much in the heavy stats for Cass. Her saving grace is her skills and she'll give him a match at times but Cap's faster healing, enhanced mind, enhanced durability of surviving building falls and falls without parachutes would cripple Cass.
But then again Cap is a super soldier. He can tank stuff like this.
1) everyone knows Green Arow's H2H skills are a joke...and you're trying to defend a CHEAP SHOT which stopped cass from further owned him...cass didn't need his help, he just killed the crocs, to try look good...
2) No, it's not irrelevant! even Tim Drake, could probably beat Ollie...Nightwing, for example, would wreck him!...but Connor Hawke is a hole new level! he has stallemated Richard Dragon Twice, and give good fights to the likes of Lady Shiva, and Silver Monkey!...you give an exemple of a street leveler stallemating cass, when that street leveler could probably beat the members of the team, you're suporting...connor hawke is not a good exemple for your argument
3) that fight appeared on painel, but it was later stated, that was all an elusion, cassandra and bruce never stallemated for real! bruce beat her once, when she didn't had her body Reading, and cass owned him, when she got it back...besides, you do realize that Batman himself, has stated that cass is a better fighter than him, right?
4) slade is another bad example for your argument, because Deathstroke has humilliated Batman like 3 times before the new 52 came...and the best that he could do against cass, was not get beaten, and that's because, he runs away
5) lol, so first you try to downball cassandra, and now you want to post good showings for cap? that way cap looks much better...let's see what happens, when i do the same thing you did:
Team 2. Cap isn't just superhuman, he's a master fighter who takes on wolverine and spider-man, who are tiers above everyone else here. If cap were powerless, team 1 would certainly win, but he isn't.
Team 2. Cap isn't just superhuman, he's a master fighter who takes on wolverine and spider-man, who are tiers above everyone else here. If cap were powerless, team 1 would certainly win, but he isn't.
I was getting ready to counter everything that Batgirl poster said again. But no point now since the smart posters like yourself are not falling for his logic and the ones that do are not to bright :) I should have known considering his poster name itself as he defends Cass....LOL. Thank you for your post.
@krauser99: Hard to argue against someone that believes that anyone within her physical capabilities that's capable of hitting her can only be argued as PIS. Cass isn't any more immune to any other street-leveler that has taken a punch to the face or knee to the gut from a physically comparable opponent. She's a skilled fighter, but sure as hell far from untouchable.
Everyone is bloodlusted. It would mean that caps shield can kill with one connect. And Batman will go for his sonics and high end voltage. Any direct contact on Batman should result in a knockout. At high levels he has phased building sized monsters. And very tough metahumans.
Team 2. Cap isn't just superhuman, he's a master fighter who takes on wolverine and spider-man, who are tiers above everyone else here. If cap were powerless, team 1 would certainly win, but he isn't.
so? cassandra has taken on metas-humans and did good against them...lady shiva shouldn't be much diferent...just the fact that A, B, or C is meta or not, is not enough to determine the winners, since the members of team 1 are both "just" peak humans, and they can take on metas
actually both lady shiva and cass, make supergirl look foolish, on different ocasions! can cap beat supergirl?...because, i don't think he can...
Batman doesn't stomp anyone from team 1, he never did...he fought both on diferent ocasions, and he never manage to beat them fairly! the best he did was defeating cass once when she didn't have her body Reading...which is irrelevant here, since, in this battle, she can use all of her abillites
and cap stomps?...why?...because he is meta?...right...you know that both members from team 1 are capable of taking on metas, right?
Team 2, Bats and Shiva are close to an even match without gear but Bruce with gear has the advantage, same goes for Steve and his shield. Cass can do well enough due to the fact that she is possibly the most skilled among the four as well as the fastest, but those advantages will not serve her well enough against their gear and she isn't so skilled or so fast that they will not land hits. When they do land hits they can very likely knock her clean out, if not then Bruce's gadgets will.
Cass and Shiva could beat either Batman or Cap...Lady Shiva is the more skilled fighter here, and Cass can know what they are going to do, just by looking at them.
Cass and Shiva could beat either Batman or Cap...Lady Shiva is the more skilled fighter here, and Cass can know what they are going to do, just by looking at them.
Team 1 wins 7/10 or 8/10 IMO.
I wasn't trying anything. You seem to think that H2H combat is the end all be all of fights and I don't see why. Cass and Shiva literally have 0 defense against a flash bang grenade followed by a Shield Toss for the kill, a shield Cap has thrown hard enough and fast enough to cut off the Top of a tank. They have no answer to lethal explosives that batman has in spades. Only one of them has the gear necessary to deal with Batman using a Grappling Hook to control the distance, which Batman is much better than cass at. Cass and Shiva basically min/maxed their character sheets for H2H and didn't invest in anything else, so once the fight is taken from their preferred setting they are like fish out of Water.
They are DnD Fighters going up against a DnD Duskblade that could afford way better weapons and armor. Yea if the Duskblade uses no spells the fighter will win , maybe even handidly. But what's that the fighter has no will save cause he min/maxed? Boom, combat cast sleep and now the fighter is fucked because he decided he only wanted to be good at one thing. In this case the spells are gadgets, and Sleep is knockout gas.
Shiva's best showings against Bruce end in a Stalemate and that is with him avoiding using Gadgets and not being Bloodlusted, something Shiva Normally is. So her best showing is stalemating against an opponent in an inferior state to the one he has in this battle. That spells defeat. The only thing you can say is that neither Cass or Bruce were really Bloodlusted int he Soul Drug fight so it could end similarly, a stalemate. And Steve? General consensus is that Steve beats Batman without gadgets because of his massive skill and Better physicals so even in H2H thanks to his physicals Steve is bringing Stalemate potential to the Table, not even considering the shield.
Literally the ONLY grounds Shiva and Cass have for winning is if Batman and Steve derp and forget they have options other than H2H fighting.
Cassie is the fastest here, not to mention her Body Reading Abillity, which Lady Shiva can also perform (even tho, to a lesser extent)...anyway, with gear + gadgets, yeah, they could do it, it's a fact!...but even so, i would like to point out, that you're saying that because they don't use stuff such has gear and gadgets, they would most likely go down, it's pure speculation...Cass did pretty well against Batman without any gadgets...and probably so could Shiva.
Anyway, i agree that with gear + gadgets it gets alot closer, and team 2 does have a legitimate hope here, but regardless of the out-come, 8/10 seems to much, IMO.
@thebourneposter: " Cap and Batman beat them both in h2h anyways. "
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