#1 Edited by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

The Rebels: Damian Wayne, Jason Todd, Cassandra Cain, Huntress, Talia al Ghul, Azrael (Michael Lane)

VS

The Righteous: Tim Drake, Nightwing, Stephanie Brown, Batwoman, Catwoman, Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis)

All characters have all of their standard gear and equipment. Jason Todd has limited ammo.

No prep time

Battle takes place in present-day Gotham City

Characters do not hesitate to inflict damage

#2 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassandra Cain with Jason almost makes this a stomp,

#3 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@ImTheDamnBatman said:
Cassandra Cain with Jason almost makes this a stomp,
Jason isn't that good. Dick has proven he can beat him. Don't get me wrong, I like Jason, but you're overestimating him. 
 
That being said, Cass definitely tilts the odds - not to mention Azrael.
 
It might be better to replace Terry with Bruce.
#4 Posted by Saren (25112 posts) - - Show Bio

Azrael solos.

Moderator
#5 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

The Rebels win.

#6 Edited by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Cassandra Cain with Jason almost makes this a stomp,

I agree that Cassandra Cain would be a hard-hitter in this fight, but Jason isn't really that powerful. I think what really gives him his edge is his ruthlessness, but in this match, every character is going all out.

Plus, Jason Todd has been beaten by Nightwing, during the Battle for the Cowl storyarc. He was also almost killed by the Flamingo, if it hadn't been for Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne's intervention.

#7 Posted by nickzambuto (14956 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Cassandra Cain with Jason almost makes this a stomp,

Hardly. Dick>Jason.

#8 Posted by Saren (25112 posts) - - Show Bio

None of these people can even put a dent in Lane, even if they attack him all at the same time, so what is this debate about?

Moderator
#9 Edited by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

None of these people can even put a dent in Lane, even if they attack him all at the same time, so what is this debate about?

I think that Terry's batsuit can take on the Suit of Sorrows. It would be difficult to compare a high-tech suit and a suit that gains its powers from mystical forces, but I still think that Batman Beyond can take on Azrael. Plus, Azrael depends mostly on close combat. Terry could probably evade a lot of his attacks.

I'll rescind Terry's handicaps so that the fight will be more fair. I may have underestimated Michael Lane. Terry now has all of his equipment, including his cloaking device and rocket boots.

#10 Posted by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

The Rebels win.

How so?

@RainEffect said:

@ImTheDamnBatman said:
Cassandra Cain with Jason almost makes this a stomp,
Jason isn't that good. Dick has proven he can beat him. Don't get me wrong, I like Jason, but you're overestimating him. That being said, Cass definitely tilts the odds - not to mention Azrael. It might be better to replace Terry with Bruce.

I think that Terry is an appropriate combatant. I'm trying to keep Bruce out of it. If he were put on one side, the victory would be pretty decisive.

#11 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatCow: Well,the Rebels have Azrael and Cass.Cass is one of the best martial artists and I can't seen anyone defeating her in this fight from the other team and the same is for Michael Lane.

#12 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5296 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebels win, Cassandra Cain being a big reason why.

#13 Edited by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

@BatCow: Well,the Rebels have Azrael and Cass.Cass is one of the best martial artists and I can't seen anyone defeating her in this fight from the other team and the same is for Michael Lane.

@HBKTimHBK said:

Rebels win, Cassandra Cain being a big reason why.

Even though Cassandra is, beyond any doubt, the strongest fighter, she could be beaten by ingenuity, instead of pure hand-to-hand combat. Tim Drake could probably find a way to stun or lessen her senses, while Nightwing could deliver a few blows.

#14 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatCow said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@BatCow: Well,the Rebels have Azrael and Cass.Cass is one of the best martial artists and I can't seen anyone defeating her in this fight from the other team and the same is for Michael Lane.

Even though Cass is, beyond any doubt, the strongest fighter, she could be beaten by ingenuity, instead of pure hand-to-hand combat. Tim Drake could probably find a way to stun or lessen her senses, while Nightwing could deliver a few blows.

Cass even stunned can stop Nightwing and with the help of the others from her team,they will win this fight not that hardly.

#15 Posted by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@TDK_1997 said:

@BatCow said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@BatCow: Well,the Rebels have Azrael and Cass.Cass is one of the best martial artists and I can't seen anyone defeating her in this fight from the other team and the same is for Michael Lane.

Even though Cass is, beyond any doubt, the strongest fighter, she could be beaten by ingenuity, instead of pure hand-to-hand combat. Tim Drake could probably find a way to stun or lessen her senses, while Nightwing could deliver a few blows.

Cass even stunned can stop Nightwing and with the help of the others from her team,they will win this fight not that hardly.

The problem with the Rebel team is that they are all too individualistic. Most aren't good at working with teams, for example Damian Wayne and Huntress aren't good at following orders and prefer to do things their own way. They are also all too impulsive and hot-headed. Talia al Ghul and Jason Todd would definitely be willing to sacrifice a teammate, so I doubt Cassandra would be getting much help.

#16 Posted by yodagod (2263 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't the stomp everyone wants to make it out to be. Dick and Tim are very good. They're smarter and more experienced than almost everyone else. Terry can hang with Lane. The righteous have superior teamwork. I think Damien and probably Huntress will go down fairly quickly leaving double team opportunities. Not that it gives the righteous a victory, but it makes it too close to call for me.

#17 Posted by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod said:

This isn't the stomp everyone wants to make it out to be. Dick and Tim are very good. They're smarter and more experienced than almost everyone else. Terry can hang with Lane. The righteous have superior teamwork. I think Damien and probably Huntress will go down fairly quickly leaving double team opportunities. Not that it gives the righteous a victory, but it makes it too close to call for me.

All great points. This match seems very close to me as well. One group has more might and power, while the other group seems to have more tactical prowess and better teamwork. And I agree, Dick and Tim are a force to be reckoned with. With both of their skills put together, they have a chance at taking down a powerful force such as Cassandra Cain.

#18 Edited by Cochise (682 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Righteous got this, both teams have some great and more modest fighters but Terry in his suit is a cut above the rest. And the Righteous will have superior numbers as the Rebels start to go down. Damian Wayne vs. Tim Drake = Tim wins; Jason Todd vs. Nightwing = Nightwing wins; Cassandra Cain vs. Stephanie Brown = Cain wins; Huntress vs. Batwoman = Batwoman wins; Talia al Ghul vs. Catwoman = Probably Talia win; Azrael (Michael Lane) Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis) = Terry wins; So after a few minutes, it's be Cassandra and Talia against Tim, Nightwing, Batwoman and Terry.

#19 Posted by charlieboy (7096 posts) - - Show Bio

catwoman is on the righteous team?

#20 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatCow said:

The Rebels: Damian Wayne, Jason Todd, Cassandra Cain, Huntress, Talia al Ghul, Azrael (Michael Lane)

VS

The Righteous: Tim Drake, Nightwing, Stephanie Brown, Batwoman, Catwoman, Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis)

Then:

  • Bat/Catwoman take down Talia
  • Tim, Dick, Batwoman, Catwoman vs Cass: Team takes it
  • Team + Terry > Azrael

Team Righteous should take this, imo.

#21 Posted by TDK_1997 (15085 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatCow said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@BatCow said:

@TDK_1997 said:

@BatCow: Well,the Rebels have Azrael and Cass.Cass is one of the best martial artists and I can't seen anyone defeating her in this fight from the other team and the same is for Michael Lane.

Even though Cass is, beyond any doubt, the strongest fighter, she could be beaten by ingenuity, instead of pure hand-to-hand combat. Tim Drake could probably find a way to stun or lessen her senses, while Nightwing could deliver a few blows.

Cass even stunned can stop Nightwing and with the help of the others from her team,they will win this fight not that hardly.

The problem with the Rebel team is that they are all too individualistic. Most aren't good at working with teams, for example Damian Wayne and Huntress aren't good at following orders and prefer to do things their own way. They are also all too impulsive and hot-headed. Talia al Ghul and Jason Todd would definitely be willing to sacrifice a teammate, so I doubt Cassandra would be getting much help.

This is one of the problems of the team but Cass doesn't need help and if some guys play one against all they can win.The fight would be bloody and the Rebels would again eventually win.Nobody can put a finger on Lane.

#22 Posted by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cochise said:

Team Righteous got this, both teams have some great and more modest fighters but Terry in his suit is a cut above the rest. And the Righteous will have superior numbers as the Rebels start to go down. Damian Wayne vs. Tim Drake = Tim wins; Jason Todd vs. Nightwing = Nightwing wins; Cassandra Cain vs. Stephanie Brown = Cain wins; Huntress vs. Batwoman = Batwoman wins; Talia al Ghul vs. Catwoman = Probably Talia win; Azrael (Michael Lane) Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis) = Terry wins; So after a few minutes, it's be Cassandra and Talia against Tim, Nightwing, Batwoman and Terry.

I'm unsure about some of the winners of these matches. I think Damian, Huntress, and Azrael have the capabilities to defeat the people you matched them up with in battle. Then again perhaps the match ups could be differently. I think Cassandra Cain would go for a stronger adversary than Stephanie Brown. I also think that Tim Drake would try to fight someone other than Damian.

Even if the match goes as you predicted, I think Nightwing, Batwoman, Tim, and Terry would be worn out from their matches since they've been paired up with difficult people to beat. Also, Nightwing and Tim would be exhausted mentally, and Terry's suit would probably have taken a lot of damage from Azrael. This leaves them open to Cassandra Cain's attacks, who is still in a good condition since her match was fairly easy.

@charlieboy said:

catwoman is on the righteous team?

In comparison to Talia, yeah. I would've put Oracle on Team Righteous and Catwoman on Team Rebel, but Barbara isn't as good in a fight when dealing with the rest of the bat-family.

#23 Posted by charlieboy (7096 posts) - - Show Bio
@BatCow: it is true that barbara isn't as skilled as some of the others. although she is probably one of the more intelligent ones. she usually uses her brains to get her out of jams. 
#24 Posted by BatCow (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

@BatCow said:

The Rebels: Damian Wayne, Jason Todd, Cassandra Cain, Huntress, Talia al Ghul, Azrael (Michael Lane)

VS

The Righteous: Tim Drake, Nightwing, Stephanie Brown, Batwoman, Catwoman, Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis)

Then:

  • Bat/Catwoman take down Talia
  • Tim, Dick, Batwoman, Catwoman vs Cass: Team takes it
  • Team + Terry > Azrael

Team Righteous should take this, imo.

Interesting strategy, but then again, this could apply to Team Rebel as well.

For example, Damian Wayne and Jason Todd could take down Nightwing, Cassandra and Huntress take out Tim Drake, etc.

The whole team with Azrael could then proceed to take down Terry.

#25 Posted by yodagod (2263 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cochise said:

Team Righteous got this, both teams have some great and more modest fighters but Terry in his suit is a cut above the rest. And the Righteous will have superior numbers as the Rebels start to go down. Damian Wayne vs. Tim Drake = Tim wins; Jason Todd vs. Nightwing = Nightwing wins; Cassandra Cain vs. Stephanie Brown = Cain wins; Huntress vs. Batwoman = Batwoman wins; Talia al Ghul vs. Catwoman = Probably Talia win; Azrael (Michael Lane) Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis) = Terry wins; So after a few minutes, it's be Cassandra and Talia against Tim, Nightwing, Batwoman and Terry.

This would be a very bad strategy that would lead to a righteous team loss. Cassie should nearly one shot Steph, then she can start the double teams before the others can get the necessary wins. Neither Tim nor Dick would make this mistake IMO. It'd be smarter to give her Batwoman or Catwoman and tell them to avoid and distract. The righteous team need to mostly fight defensively and spend a lot of time running except Tim, Terry, and Dick. Terry and Lane will be completely occupied with each other, so some old school TT or Outsiders teamwork may be called for, like getting everyone moving and swapping opponents quickly to keep them off guard. That's a tactic that could give Terry and earlier win, and could even throw Cassie off her game a little. Once any of those three defeat their opponent, as they inevitably will as long as they avoid Cassie, they can start eliminating everyone else quickly, and ultimately overwhelm Cassie with numbers. But unless it works nearly perfectly, they'll be in trouble. It's still awfully close. Though I may have just talked myself into a slight team Righteous advantage. Dick and company should pull this out 6/10 thanks to superior teamwork and better tactical expertise.

#26 Posted by Cochise (682 posts) - - Show Bio

@yodagod said:

...

Yeah TBH I just paired them up as the OP had listed them... With group battles it gets kind of random when all of the characters are similar (all H2H fighters, etc.) BUT my point is that the Righteous have an OVERALL surplus of skill and that more times than not they will wind up with a numbers advantage, and then overwhelm the Rebels. And as you note they will most likely work together more efficiently and have better teamwork (Damian? Azrael? Jason? Yeah, they are not going to work well together.)

#27 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@BatCow said:

@Esquire said:

@BatCow said:

The Rebels: Damian Wayne, Jason Todd, Cassandra Cain, Huntress, Talia al Ghul, Azrael (Michael Lane)

VS

The Righteous: Tim Drake, Nightwing, Stephanie Brown, Batwoman, Catwoman, Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis)

Then:

  • Bat/Catwoman take down Talia
  • Tim, Dick, Batwoman, Catwoman vs Cass: Team takes it
  • Team + Terry > Azrael

Team Righteous should take this, imo.

Interesting strategy, but then again, this could apply to Team Rebel as well.

For example, Damian Wayne and Jason Todd could take down Nightwing, Cassandra and Huntress take out Tim Drake, etc.

The whole team with Azrael could then proceed to take down Terry.

Sorry for the confusion. The names in Bold in the quoted post indicate who I think would win their respective fights. Then the winners would start the double-teams.

#28 Posted by yodagod (2263 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cochise said:

@yodagod said:

...

Yeah TBH I just paired them up as the OP had listed them... With group battles it gets kind of random when all of the characters are similar (all H2H fighters, etc.) BUT my point is that the Righteous have an OVERALL surplus of skill and that more times than not they will wind up with a numbers advantage, and then overwhelm the Rebels. And as you note they will most likely work together more efficiently and have better teamwork (Damian? Azrael? Jason? Yeah, they are not going to work well together.)

I did the same thing initially, then realized the better thing would be chaos. Take advantage of the Rebels lack of teamwork. I totally agree with you here though.