Bastila Shan vs Ahsoka Tano

Bastila vs Ahsoka

Apologies if this is a stomp for either character.

Bastilla should stomp unless im missing something

@serrure: Reasons? Don't get me wrong I'm not disagreeing.

bump

@killerwasp@penderor@jkbart@jedixman@thevivas@shootingnova@i_like_swords@highaccuser@burnface@jacthripper@silentbat

Probably Bastilla. Though I don't know much about her

Bastila doesn't have any skill feats at all minus killing featless Sith and getting stomped by Malak. She's obviously more developed with the Force, but Ahsoka is clearly the better fighter.

Bastila.

@shootingnova: Is the skill gap big enough for Ahsoka to overcome Bastila's superior force powers? I think this would be a decent fight. I think it's pretty clear that Ahsoka is faster and more agile, not sure who is superior in strength.

@zaluk: I doubt strength would make a difference.

And yes, skill is generally more important than power and Bastila seems to be primarily a duelist in a fight, with her only using the Force when she has to. I'd probably give Ahsoka 6-7/10.

@shootingnova: Originally I thought Bastila would win the majority, however it's quite clear that Ahsoka would, not easily though. I prefer Bastila a lot more as a character though.

@shootingnova: She was never actually stomped. Only time when he "stomped her" was when he putted her in stasis and I bet he could do the same to Ahsoka. She was holding against him in lightsaber combat and later held even against Revan. She dueled in deadly fights more often than Ahsoka.

I feel that 14-16 years old Togruta is too overrated. Dont you want to make Ahsoka with 1 year of prep vs Starkiller?

Ashoka wins in a long fight she is a better fighter while Bastila is pretty featless.

@penderor: Yes, she was. She challenged Malak and was immediately forced onto the defensive, and presumably lost soon after the scene cuts away.

She never held evenly against Revan. On the Star Forge, she kept drawing on the nexus to replenish herself after repeatedly losing to a disinterested Revan in a fight.

She also lost to Revan on Rakata Prime, with Jolee and Juhani. She used the Force to blast them away, which is an impressive feat, and then she ran away.

@shootingnova: She was beating Revan during his training as Padawan. Considering the fact that he started to connect himself to the force and already possesed the military training and experience from Telos, its good feat.

About her Force abilities, you forgot to mention that she putted into stasis the two Revan companions before she started to fight him.

@penderor: What on earth are you talking about?

I wasn't listing her Force abilities, and I was talking about a separate instance, so no, I didn't "forget" about it.

ahsoka

By expectation Bastila, by feats Ahsoak

@shootingnova: Do you speak english? The first part shows her dueling feats.

Ashoka wins.

Much better fighter in lightsaber combat and hand to hand. She also has powerful use of Force TK in a fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4YpxzoHv7s

Are we giving Shan a Battle Meditation advantage? If so I would say Shan takes a majority. If not it could go Ahsoka's way 6/10, heck even 7/10. She's a better fighter than Shan (from what I can tell).

Shan was more of Jedi Sentinal than a Guardian. I always saw Shan as a support-class. Someone who could boost a team but not be very good alone.

I can agree with that assessment @killerwasp. I'm not one to just take feats and leave it as it is. Logically based on Shan's position within the Jedi Order, she would seem to have the advantage.

The question would be this . . . do we think Tano could have done better against Malak? Are we considering that Shan would probably have more lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat experience than Tano. Ahsoka participated in a war that involved mostly blaster-wielding foes, while Bastila was usually engaging with lightsaber-wielding opponents.

IMO Tano would do well if not better than Shan did vs Malak.

All this points to End of Series Ahsoka being way more skilled of a fighter than we seen of Shan.

@silentbat: heh good to see something from you antoine

@zaluk: Hey thanks for the tag! I've been busy so I haven't been around. Finally updated the Force Users post and I started stalking around again lol.

Wait . . . how do you know me by first name!?

@penderor: No, it doesn't. Show me when she defeated Revan, and even if she did, Revan as a padawan has no showings.

Bastila is obviously more knowledgeable in the force, and also far more experienced than Ahsoka. I mean come on, just the way Bastila talked shows her wisdom and character. Ahsoka may win in the lightsaber only fight, but all-out there is no way Bastila is losing to a padawan.

Thats not true, Anakin as a Padawan was as impressive as obi Wan as a Jedi Knight. Jedi Knight, not Master btw. Grievous and Jango Fett could take down well accomplish Jedi, and they were not even Padawans much less force users. Being a Padawan does not mean Ahsoka auto lose.

Anyway, Ahsoka Force TK is much more powerful than anything Bastila ever done, and her Force Sense was top notch too. Better Blaster Deflector, and Lightsaber duelist too.

Bastila knows more Force abilities, but thats it. Being out class in saber combat by a Jedi with more powerful Force TK and reaction ability is why Ahsoka wins.

Untrue. Bastila has Force pulled a guard into her cage with enough force to break it open, while hindered I might add. She has also displayed saber throw, Force Wave, and knows Force Slam, Force Grip, and Force Whirlwind. Bastila has also put two of Revan's party members into a stasis simultaneously. She also knows Force Deflection, Force Slow (which would likely make up for Ahsoka's agility / speed advantage), Force Valor (which augments her attributes), and is advanced in Battle Meditation. She has also used Force heal to keep a dying Revan alive for a long enough period of time for him to be saved.

Let me know when Ahsoka does any of this, then come back and tell me that Ahsoka is "much more powerful than Bastila".

She has never displayed any "top notch" Force Sense feats, although some of them were decent. Bastila also has good Force Sense though, and its not like it would be relevant to this fight anyway.

Irrelevant.

Probably, but the skill disparity isn't hardly very big. Ahsoka has never defeated any skillful opponents in a lightsaber duel, though she has held her own against people like Barriss (who I might add is pretty much featless as a duelist). Bastila on the other hand has defeated a Dark Jedi, and contended with Malak (who is quite a powerful lightsaber duelist) long enough for an injured Revan and Carth to escape.

1. Correct, Bastila knows far more Force abilities.

2. Bastila is hardly 'out-classed' in lightsaber combat compared to Ahsoka, for the above reasons.

3. Ahsoka barely has more straight up raw TK power, if any at all. Bastila is much more advanced and versatile in its use however.

4. Ahsoka with better reaction ability? It's possible, but there really isn't any huge speed disparity in this fight so this shouldn't matter anyway.

Bastila beats Ahsoka.

Bastila.

@sxe619:

Untrue. Bastila has Force pulled a guard into her cage with enough force to break it open, while hindered I might add. She has also displayed saber throw, Force Wave, and knows Force Slam, Force Grip, and Force Whirlwind. Bastila has also put two of Revan's party members into a stasis simultaneously. She also knows Force Deflection, Force Slow (which would likely make up for Ahsoka's agility / speed advantage), Force Valor (which augments her attributes), and is advanced in Battle Meditation. She has also used Force heal to keep a dying Revan alive for a long enough period of time for him to be saved.

Let me know when Ahsoka does any of this, then come back and tell me that Ahsoka is "much more powerful than Bastila".

• Ahsoka use of Force Sensing, Farsight, and Jedi Mind tricks better than Bastila. So what? Ahsoka is also skilled in the force in ways Bastila is not.
• In this case Force TK. Ahsoka has shown the ability to use her Force in chain with attack with her lightsaber. Show me Bastila doing the same, I know all you can show is Bastila holding still in game battles.
• Ahsoka strength of force in TK tons of droids down in one go, slam down a large wall of wreckage on droids, blown through the force defenses of Ventriss in a battle, and Blown back Grievous himself even though he braced against it. She even manage to help Anakain survive a large chunks of structure by combining with Anakin. All these feats blow away anything you mention with the force for Bastila.
• Force Valor, and Battle Meditation have no feats outside game mechanics. Every time we see a canon cut scene of Battle Mediation used, its Bastila standing still and meditating. Not fighting. Unless you can prove how effective Valor and Battle Meditation is in a fight, its pointless to bring it up.

She has never displayed any "top notch" Force Sense feats, although some of them were decent. Bastila also has good Force Sense though, and its not like it would be relevant to this fight anyway.

I never seen her use Force sense on the level or way Ahsoka has applied it.

Irrelevant.

Relevant since it shows better reaction and speed to Bastila.

Probably, but the skill disparity isn't hardly very big. Ahsoka has never defeated any skillful opponents in a lightsaber duel, though she has held her own against people like Barriss (who I might add is pretty much featless as a duelist). Bastila on the other hand has defeated a Dark Jedi, and contended with Malak (who is quite a powerful lightsaber duelist) long enough for an injured Revan and Carth to escape.

Barriss is featless? She held her own against Anakin of all people in a dragged out Lightsaber match. Featless indeed. She also end up beating Ahsoka who is a great saber duelist.

Bastila fought a fodder Dark Jedi who have no skill feats at all, and contended with a poor duelist like Malak who she lost too. Add to all this Bastila is always doing these suppose skill feats with a Revan and another. Hardly respectable as Ahsoka contending with establish warrior and duelist of the Clone Wars.

1. Correct, Bastila knows far more Force abilities.

2. Bastila is hardly 'out-classed' in lightsaber combat compared to Ahsoka, for the above reasons.

3. Ahsoka barely has more straight up raw TK power, if any at all. Bastila is much more advanced and versatile in its use however.

4. Ahsoka with better reaction ability? It's possible, but there really isn't any huge speed disparity in this fight so this shouldn't matter anyway.

Bastila beats Ahsoka

1) Which matters not since most of it use featless for comparing to a fight.

2) Yes she is out classed. Say otherwise if foolish.

3) Then prove Bastila has more raw power with legit feats. I know she has none to compare.

4) Every little advatage helps in a battle.

Bastila would be beaten faster than the MagnaGaurd were or taken down quicker than Barriss was in the first fight.

Since when was Force Sense more useful than TK in a fight LOL? Also, show me a feat where Ahsoka displays such "superior" farsight and mind tricks to Bastila, because afaik Bastila knows how to use mind tricks as well. What do you mean "so what?"? Ahsoka can use none of those powers, which gives Bastila an obvious lead in Force prowess. Tell me what's to stop Bastila from just putting Ahsoka in a stasis in the start of the fight and just killing her from there? Ahsoka has never shown any way to avoid something like that, so, from what I know, she's not getting away from being locked into a stasis.

Just because someone can use TK in a chain attack with their lightsaber doesn't mean hardly anything. Why does Bastila have to display the exact same feat to put her ahead of Ahsoka in TK? That's not how feats work my friend.

1. They're droids. That is all.

2. "Slamming down"? Psh, please refrain from using such horrendous hyperbole. She didn't slam it down. She took a second to concentrate, and pulled on it, causing it to fall over and the weightof it is what crushed the droids.

3. Where has she "blown" through the Force defenses of Ventriss? Video please. Also, she barely even pushed Grievous back a few meters, and it's not like that's a very impressive showing.

4. She combined with Anakin, who has far better TK feats than she does. Anakin would've been the main reason they held up the chunks of collapsing structure, not Ahsoka. We're talking about Ahsoka's feats here alone, since we cannot really judge how much of that collapsing structure she could've held up on her own since she combined with someone else.

The key word here is "game mechanics". It is NOT considered game mechanics if Bastila uses it canonically in the story, which indeed she does. And that "battle meditation" changed the war. You're probably right though, mid-fight BM would be useless but I was only using it as an example to show how much Bastila is ahead of Ahsoka in terms of force powers. As for Force Valor, it is a real force power which increases the user's attributes. It's a power that can be used mid-combat, just like Bastila could here (which would make up for any attribute differences between the two).

Any half-way decent Jedi is able to deflect blaster bolts. And deflecting blaster bolts =/= deflecting lightsaber strikes, and nobody here is using a blaster. Apples and oranges.

Barriss was on the defensive nearly the whole time. Pretty much the only time she got attacks on Anakin was in the first half of the fight, where Anakin wasn't hardly trying to harm her. It wasn't until the second half where Anakin really began to try, and Barriss was stomped within seconds.

Malak is not a poor duelist at all first off. You should go right ahead and search his respect thread. Malak is a far better duelist than Ahsoka. About the last two sentences, I have no idea who / what you're talking about.

1. It does matter because a far superior Force user can stomp someone if they have no defenses against the former's powers.

2. Please, refrain from calling me a fool and let's be mature about this. I know you just made a respect thread and want Ahsoka to get some hype, but she simply does not match up to Bastila overall.

3. I just showed you some TK feats for Bastila LOL. Anyway, here we go again. Bastila has: shoved Mission to the ground without even moving a muscle, pulled a guard into her cage with enough force to smash it open (while she was hindered), used a force wave to knock back Revan, Jolee and Juhani back, and has used a lightsaber throw on Malak.

4. Doesn't matter because it won't make any difference compared to her inferiority to Bastila's powers. =)

So please, just show me how Ahsoka wouldn't get put into a stasis from the start, or Bastila could use slow on her then stomp her with other powers since Ahsoka won't be able to get out of the way or block any of them.

@sxe619: Barriss was only stomped when Anakin ragdolled her with his vastly superior TK after he was clearly pissed off. Up until that point she was holding her own against him and even managed to get a couple good hits in. I'd also argue that after he started utilize his strength advantage to rain down harder blows, her Makashi style couldn't handle it.

@silentbat: You've said in a previous post that you were Antoine Bandele from youtube, didn't believe it at first until I found that you use the name Silentbat often and your knowledge of Star Wars supports that you're him.

Ahsoka. I think her actual feats with a lightsaber give her a big advantage.

Since when was Force Sense more useful than TK in a fight LOL? Also, show me a feat where Ahsoka displays such "superior" farsight and mind tricks to Bastila, because afaik Bastila knows how to use mind tricks as well. What do you mean "so what?"? Ahsoka can use none of those powers, which gives Bastila an obvious lead in Force prowess. Tell me what's to stop Bastila from just putting Ahsoka in a stasis in the start of the fight and just killing her from there? Ahsoka has never shown any way to avoid something like that, so, from what I know, she's not getting away from being locked into a stasis.

I was never stating Force Sense, Farsight, ect were useful in a fight, I just brought up its Force Powers that Ahsoka has that Bastila never shown to be awesome in, and Bastila knowing more Force powers that do not benefit her at all.

All that matter is TK.

Force stun is going to hold Ahsoka? Why? Ahsoka mentaly is more impressive than Bastila, or any of the other game characters it has been used on. Add to that Stasis is pretty inconsistent, working only on featless Jedi like Jedi Jolee Bindo or Juhani are featless in mental abilities. same for the rest of the non Jedi party that were put in stasis.

Just because someone can use TK in a chain attack with their lightsaber doesn't mean hardly anything. Why does Bastila have to display the exact same feat to put her ahead of Ahsoka in TK? That's not how feats work my friend.

Because feats > what you believe. Ahsoka shown to do it, Bastila has not period.

1. They're droids. That is all.

2. "Slamming down"? Psh, please refrain from using such horrendous hyperbole. She didn't slam it down. She took a second to concentrate, and pulled on it, causing it to fall over and the weightof it is what crushed the droids.

3. Where has she "blown" through the Force defenses of Ventriss? Video please. Also, she barely even pushed Grievous back a few meters, and it's not like that's a very impressive showing.

4. She combined with Anakin, who has far better TK feats than she does. Anakin would've been the main reason they held up the chunks of collapsing structure, not Ahsoka. We're talking about Ahsoka's feats here alone, since we cannot really judge how much of that collapsing structure she could've held up on her own since she combined with someone else.

Most of your argument is a poor attempt to make Bastila TK look better?

:25. blows through Ventriss Force defenses while she was in active Jedi engagement.

All these feats show skill in Form 6 over anything Bastila shown.

The key word here is "game mechanics". It is NOT considered game mechanics if Bastila uses it canonically in the story, which indeed she does. And that "battle meditation" changed the war. You're probably right though, mid-fight BM would be useless but I was only using it as an example to show how much Bastila is ahead of Ahsoka in terms of force powers. As for Force Valor, it is a real force power which increases the user's attributes. It's a power that can be used mid-combat, just like Bastila could here (which would make up for any attribute differences between the two).

Then post a clear feat of just "how useful" it will be. You cannot. All you have is game mechanics to measure the ability, not outside game feats to judge how helpful either those abilities will aid her and to what degree.

Any half-way decent Jedi is able to deflect blaster bolts. And deflecting blaster bolts =/= deflecting lightsaber strikes, and nobody here is using a blaster. Apples and oranges.

Ahsoka reaction with top marksmen like Cad Bane and Sing is above the reaction and skill of Shan. Ahsoka battles with Barriss, Ventress, Grievous, and 3 MagnaGuards is way above what Shan has showed. Her documented Lightsaber forms is more than what we know of simple Bastila.

Hean to hand feats are superior showing of skill alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1HZZBpZA_c

Along with great Saber skill, Ahsoka has shown superb hand to hand abilities as she fights handcuffed against Madalorians, or how easy she took down Cad Bane. We also see the use of the Force to increase strikes to damage Clone Troopers in their battle armor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVSBGW0E7qQ

We also see her hand to hand skill being more than enough to wreck fully armed Trandoshans in a fight. These aliens are strong enough to fight Wookies in hand to hand.

Add to this various sources place her Lightsaber knowledge with being skilled in Shi-Cho, Shien, Ataru, Djem So, Jar'Kai , and Niman. Her skills with the Lightsaber would be her forte, using basic applications of the force to supplement her Lightsaber skills.

All proof of skill and speed over Shan.

Barriss was on the defensive nearly the whole time. Pretty much the only time she got attacks on Anakin was in the first half of the fight, where Anakin wasn't hardly trying to harm her. It wasn't until the second half where Anakin really began to try, and Barriss was stomped within seconds.

What he said.

Malak is not a poor duelist at all first off. You should go right ahead and search his respect thread. Malak is a far better duelist than Ahsoka. About the last two sentences, I have no idea who / what you're talking about.

Point is Bastila has no real feats on her own. She is always with help. She fights crappy Malak, and gets stomped. She fights the great Revan, and gets Stomped twice.

Nothing from either battle showed she did not get stomped, she was easily defeated all three times.

1. It does matter because a far superior Force user can stomp someone if they have no defenses against the former's powers.

2. Please, refrain from calling me a fool and let's be mature about this. I know you just made a respect thread and want Ahsoka to get some hype, but she simply does not match up to Bastila overall.

3. I just showed you some TK feats for Bastila LOL. Anyway, here we go again. Bastila has: shoved Mission to the ground without even moving a muscle, pulled a guard into her cage with enough force to smash it open (while she was hindered), used a force wave to knock back Revan, Jolee and Juhani back, and has used a lightsaber throw on Malak.

4. Doesn't matter because it won't make any difference compared to her inferiority to Bastila's powers. =)

1) Thats right, Ahsoka is superior from a mor advance day and age like everything else.

2) I made a respect thread cause of people low balling Ahsoka. I never called you a name, I said to think so is foolish.

3) The Force Wave feat is a amped by Dark Side Bastila. Ahsoka amped by Darkside fought Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time, neither able to KO her in the fight. Rest of the feats are inferior. Nor shown to be chain with Lightsaber attacks. What now?

4) Magna Guards would stomp a mud hole in Bastila.

So please, just show me how Ahsoka wouldn't get put into a stasis from the start, or Bastila could use slow on her then stomp her with other powers since Ahsoka won't be able to get out of the way or block any of them.

@sirfizzwhizz: Do you have any proof that stasis only works on "featless" people? If not, then we have nothing else to discuss here because there's no reason for Bastila to not use it on Ahsoka from the start. Also show me where Ahsoka can push someone back with TK without a gesture. Also, show me some proof that Bastila was "amped" when she used a Force wave; because as of now, it seems you're just trying to lowball a character and wank your favorite, without giving any actual proof. And, neither Obi-Wan nor Anakin were trying to beat Ahsoka at all, they were simply defending against her attacks, nice try though. Get back at me once you get some common knowledge.

The issue with this battle comes down to that Bastila, as an xbox generation video game character, lacked the screen time to display enough feats to reasonably show her power level in comparison to an audience stand-in cartoon character. What we do have though is world/story context. Bastila has a great deal more experience (I am assuming this is current/last version of characters which would place Bastila as a full fledged Master to apprentice ahsoka.) She has faced combatants of greater skill.

Using world context, Bastila should be capable of nearly all of Ahsoka's feats based upon her rank/age/experience in the Jedi Order. So, I give this to Bastila.

Anakin has displayed far greater showings than Barriss. And no, he was stomping her in the lightsaber fight as well, which you can tell by seeing how hopeless she was once he started smashing down on her blade. She never landed any actual good hits in, and was practically on the defensive the whole fight until finally she was defeated. She was trying to kill Anakin, whereas Anakin was only trying to defend himself and in turn incapacitate her. Yet, still due to this scenario, he still defeated her with ease. He only wrecked her with TK because he was presented an opportunity to easily take her out.

THANK you, finally someone with some logic around here.

He was clearly not..like I said Anakin was making full use of his aggressive Djem So style and clearly superior strength to counter her Makashi towards the end which obviously played a great deal in him gaining the upperhand. She landed two blows, one kick in the temple and one good kick down the steps. She wasn't on the defensive the whole time, and attacked plenty on her own. How does her wanting to kill Anakin put him at any disadvantage? By that logic everytime a Jedi fights a Sith they're fighting an uphill battle. Just because he wasn't bloodlusted(which neither was she) doesn't mean he wasn't fighting to his best capabilities. He was clearly pissed off at her from the beginning, and wanted to take her down for betraying Ahsoka just as much she did him(possibly moreso). He got the upperhand when he started battering her defenses with his blows that she was having trouble with because of his vastly superior strength and the relatively weak defenses of Makashi. You're deluding yourself if you believe he had absolutely no trouble subduing her(through TK of all things instead of lightsaber combat).

So I guess now people are placing Barriss at Anakin's level in terms of lightsaber dueling? Lol, what did I miss?

@sxe619: You don't have to be exactly at someone's level to hold your own in a lightsaber duel..let alone avoid getting stomped. Barriss clearly isn't as skilled as Anakin, but she's skilled enough to give him a good fight though she'd lose a strong majority if not everytime due to his superior speed and skill that's probably a tier above her's.

@juiceboks: Yeah that is true. However, I don't see why Bastila should still lose here given the fact that she is far more experienced and powerful with the Force. Afaik Ahsoka has no counters to some of Bastila's powers.

This agains is base on very faulty reasoning. the only reason Bastila made it far in ranks was due to the fact she was so effectove at Battle Meditation over every other Jedi at the time. In fact it stated the only reason she boarded the Ship with the Jedi part for Revan was due to that reason.

Ahsoka on the other hand was stated as the youngest Padawan at the time of the Clone Wars as stated by herself and Anakin in the Movie. She was at the age of 17 already passed her great trial as per what the Jedi masters said when they tried to welcome her back to the Jedi, even though she walked away then. Effectively making her the rank of Jedi Knight her her Trials passed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSZdT023uDw

So Ahsoka was a super young Padawan, and like Anakin was a super young unofficial Jedi Knight at the end of the Clone Wars. I see no reason she cannot hold her own on Bastila period.

You just completely contradicted yourself. You said earlier that Battle Meditation isn't useful in a fight, now you're saying that she boarded the ship so she could use it during... the fights; and there was also a cutscene of her killing a Dark Jedi aboard the ship.

I contradicted nothing. Battle meditation exists, and stated as useful, but is featless to the effects it will have other than in game mechanics. It is impossible to take into account in a battle thread like Master Chiefs luck in Halo. Its silly to bring up unless you can post the effects it will have on a fight with Ahsoka. The only thing we ever seen of BM is a few cut scenes with Bastila meditating, and a army starts winning for no damn good reason other than she is affecting them all.

Its pointless to use in a versus fight with no way to measure it, making it no limits fallacy argument at best. What limits it has? What effect will it play on this battle? How badly will Ahsoka fight from it? You cannot answer these questions, cause there is no answer.

@sirfizzwhizz: Gonna have to disagree that Battle Meditation is limited to in game mechanics. Battle Meditation
as stated by wookiepedia has been used in numerous books of the EU. Darth Caedus, Yoda, and even Luke Skywalker have been known to use the technique.

Battle Meditation is definitely a team based technique aside from the mental domination. Ultimately, this results in a demoralized Ahsoka fighting unless she can resist the technique.

That said, Battle Meditation is not the end all of this fight. Bastila is a Jedi Master. Naturally she should wipe the floor with a mere apprentice who hasn't even faced her trials. There are very few apprentices who would be capable of taking down a Jedi Master. Honestly, the only one that really comes to mind would be Episode II Anakin and that would have to be a weaker Master.