Barry Allen vs Sentry

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Chibio

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#51  Edited By Chibio
@CitizenBane said:

No. Just.....no. Thor uses his lightning and teleportation. He has done so enough times for it to be in character. Sentry has used TP about 3 times in the last 6 years, and never in a combat scenario. Thus it's simply not in character for him, plain and simply. You can claim my logic is weak because it's inconvenient to your argument, it doesn't really change a thing. Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor, who I think is a tad higher than the Void.
I don't understand the way you look at fights. It's kinda messy and you really look at what you want to actually happen, but what we want is not always what we get. I want Deadpool to be skilled badass mercenary he used to be, but it looks like that will not happen anytime soon . 
But okay, here is my explanation why I don't like your logic: Sentry uses energy projection and also teleportation. Sentry has also telepathy, just the way Thor can absorb energy with Mjolnir and do some other crazy stuff, yet he is nearly never doing it. According to your logic Sentry does not have any other abilities and Thors mighty hammer Mjolnir is only reduced to letting him fly around, shotting lightning bolts and yeah, that's it. Sentry used his telepathy to mind rape Super Adaptoid and Thor used Mjolnir to depower Juggernaut for a short moment. How often do you actually see comic book characters using the full extent of their powers? Never. Never, never, ever, because that's the way how comic book fights are written. Why is no one using superspeed in a fight against the Hulk? Why is no one using telepathy to end fights instantly? Why is no one using teleportation to teleport away with their opponents and leave them hover in the space? Because the enemies would be chanceless and it would be boring. Thor brawls since the 60ties with the Hulk and never uses the full extent of his powers to finish him off, yet I'm fairly sure that you would be one of the guys who would say that Thor is the clear winner of every match between him and Hulk, simply because he has the variety of powers. 
And yeah, it's nice that Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor. Additionally to that awesome battle Spider-Man fought Firelord, Red Hulk punched Uatu, Superman defeated Darkseid, Odin headnutted Galactus, Killer Croc fought Osiris, Black Adam hurt the Spectre and so on, and so on.
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Saren

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#52  Edited By Saren

@Chibio said:

@CitizenBane said:

No. Just.....no. Thor uses his lightning and teleportation. He has done so enough times for it to be in character. Sentry has used TP about 3 times in the last 6 years, and never in a combat scenario. Thus it's simply not in character for him, plain and simply. You can claim my logic is weak because it's inconvenient to your argument, it doesn't really change a thing. Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor, who I think is a tad higher than the Void.
I don't understand the way you look at fights. It's kinda messy and you really look at what you want to actually happen, but what we want is not always what we get. I want Deadpool to be skilled badass mercenary he used to be, but it looks like that will not happen anytime soon . But okay, here is my explanation why I don't like your logic: Sentry uses energy projection and also teleportation. Sentry has also telepathy, just the way Thor can absorb energy with Mjolnir and do some other crazy stuff, yet he is nearly never doing it. According to your logic Sentry does not have any other abilities and Thors mighty hammer Mjolnir is only reduced to letting him fly around, shotting lightning bolts and yeah, that's it. Sentry used his telepathy to mind rape Super Adaptoid and Thor used Mjolnir to depower Juggernaut for a short moment. How often do you actually see comic book characters using the full extent of their powers? Never. Never, never, ever, because that's the way how comic book fights are written. Why is no one using superspeed in a fight against the Hulk? Why is no one using telepathy to end fights instantly? Why is no one using teleportation to teleport away with their opponents and leave them hover in the space? Because the enemies would be chanceless and it would be boring. Thor brawls since the 60ties with the Hulk and never uses the full extent of his powers to finish him off, yet I'm fairly sure that you would be one of the guys who would say that Thor is the clear winner of every match between him and Hulk, simply because he has the variety of powers. And yeah, it's nice that Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor. Additionally to that awesome battle Spider-Man fought Firelord, Red Hulk punched Uatu, Superman defeated Darkseid, Odin headnutted Galactus, Killer Croc fought Osiris, Black Adam hurt the Spectre and so on, and so on.

I am not looking at what I want to happen. I am looking at what actually does happen. These are the Battle Forum Rules. Sentry uses his energy projection fairly often. It's in character for him. Thor has absorbed and manipulated energy several times to the point where it is in character for him to do so. If it is in character, it can be argued on these forums. Telepathy for Sentry is not one of those things that are in character. He has done it too few times for it to be so. You can argue over plot restrictions in comic books all you want, this doesn't work that way. Over here, you're free to use any feat or power as long as it in character, unless the OP says otherwise. Thus over here, Thor will always beat Hulk because he has abilities that help him win, and more importantly abilities that he has used often enough over the years, in combat situations, to the point where they are in character.

As for your list of defeats at the end, you seem to think Barry fighting the AM was PIS. It's not, have you read COIE? He saved the universe by running fast enough to catch the AM's tachyon beam, but the AM's energy caused him to rapidly disintegrate. They wouldn't have beaten the AM without him.

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Chibio

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#53  Edited By Chibio
@CitizenBane said:

@Chibio said:

@CitizenBane said:

No. Just.....no. Thor uses his lightning and teleportation. He has done so enough times for it to be in character. Sentry has used TP about 3 times in the last 6 years, and never in a combat scenario. Thus it's simply not in character for him, plain and simply. You can claim my logic is weak because it's inconvenient to your argument, it doesn't really change a thing. Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor, who I think is a tad higher than the Void.
I don't understand the way you look at fights. It's kinda messy and you really look at what you want to actually happen, but what we want is not always what we get. I want Deadpool to be skilled badass mercenary he used to be, but it looks like that will not happen anytime soon . But okay, here is my explanation why I don't like your logic: Sentry uses energy projection and also teleportation. Sentry has also telepathy, just the way Thor can absorb energy with Mjolnir and do some other crazy stuff, yet he is nearly never doing it. According to your logic Sentry does not have any other abilities and Thors mighty hammer Mjolnir is only reduced to letting him fly around, shotting lightning bolts and yeah, that's it. Sentry used his telepathy to mind rape Super Adaptoid and Thor used Mjolnir to depower Juggernaut for a short moment. How often do you actually see comic book characters using the full extent of their powers? Never. Never, never, ever, because that's the way how comic book fights are written. Why is no one using superspeed in a fight against the Hulk? Why is no one using telepathy to end fights instantly? Why is no one using teleportation to teleport away with their opponents and leave them hover in the space? Because the enemies would be chanceless and it would be boring. Thor brawls since the 60ties with the Hulk and never uses the full extent of his powers to finish him off, yet I'm fairly sure that you would be one of the guys who would say that Thor is the clear winner of every match between him and Hulk, simply because he has the variety of powers. And yeah, it's nice that Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor. Additionally to that awesome battle Spider-Man fought Firelord, Red Hulk punched Uatu, Superman defeated Darkseid, Odin headnutted Galactus, Killer Croc fought Osiris, Black Adam hurt the Spectre and so on, and so on.

I am not looking at what I want to happen.

Unfortunately it's how it looks like. I will add one last thing and then call it a break, since I see no point in this: Sentry used telepathy more often then Barry used speed steal, so speed steal is out of the option, especially if we're playing the game by your rules, where a character has to use an ability once per month to be allowed to call it one of his powers. Thank you for the debate man!
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#54  Edited By Saren

@Chibio said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Chibio said:

@CitizenBane said:

No. Just.....no. Thor uses his lightning and teleportation. He has done so enough times for it to be in character. Sentry has used TP about 3 times in the last 6 years, and never in a combat scenario. Thus it's simply not in character for him, plain and simply. You can claim my logic is weak because it's inconvenient to your argument, it doesn't really change a thing. Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor, who I think is a tad higher than the Void.
I don't understand the way you look at fights. It's kinda messy and you really look at what you want to actually happen, but what we want is not always what we get. I want Deadpool to be skilled badass mercenary he used to be, but it looks like that will not happen anytime soon . But okay, here is my explanation why I don't like your logic: Sentry uses energy projection and also teleportation. Sentry has also telepathy, just the way Thor can absorb energy with Mjolnir and do some other crazy stuff, yet he is nearly never doing it. According to your logic Sentry does not have any other abilities and Thors mighty hammer Mjolnir is only reduced to letting him fly around, shotting lightning bolts and yeah, that's it. Sentry used his telepathy to mind rape Super Adaptoid and Thor used Mjolnir to depower Juggernaut for a short moment. How often do you actually see comic book characters using the full extent of their powers? Never. Never, never, ever, because that's the way how comic book fights are written. Why is no one using superspeed in a fight against the Hulk? Why is no one using telepathy to end fights instantly? Why is no one using teleportation to teleport away with their opponents and leave them hover in the space? Because the enemies would be chanceless and it would be boring. Thor brawls since the 60ties with the Hulk and never uses the full extent of his powers to finish him off, yet I'm fairly sure that you would be one of the guys who would say that Thor is the clear winner of every match between him and Hulk, simply because he has the variety of powers. And yeah, it's nice that Barry fought the COIE Anti-Monitor. Additionally to that awesome battle Spider-Man fought Firelord, Red Hulk punched Uatu, Superman defeated Darkseid, Odin headnutted Galactus, Killer Croc fought Osiris, Black Adam hurt the Spectre and so on, and so on.

I am not looking at what I want to happen.

Unfortunately it's how it looks like. I will add one last thing and then call it a break, since I see no point in this: Sentry used telepathy more often then Barry used speed steal, so speed steal is out of the option, especially if we're playing the game by your rules, where a character has to use an ability once per month to be allowed to call it one of his powers. Thank you for the debate man!

I never said a character has to use an ability at least once a month. Barry created the Speed Force, he powers it with every step he takes, every speedster from Jay Garrick to Wally West can use speed-stealing and IMP's only because of him. No such scenario exists for Sentry.

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the darknessss

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#55  Edited By the darknessss

sentry not light speed quick anyone?

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Chibio

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#56  Edited By Chibio
@the darknessss said:

sentry not light speed quick anyone?

From what I know he is. Long time ago I was reading the comic where the X-Men faced the Dark Avengers and Namor fought Sentry. After that I was confused, because of the Emma Frost and Bob scene, so I tried to goole for it and then I found the interview with the writer of that comic, who explained what happened there: He said that Professor X and Emma managed to get into the White Room Emma has built in Bobs mind and helped him to take over. In the next scene Sentry stopped fighting Namor, looked around and asked himself: 'Oh god, what have I done?'. That meants that Void was in control of the Sentry the entire time and that he was keeping away Bob. When Emma confronted him with that Bob was in control once again and decided that it would be the best if he would leave the battle. He flew up intto the orbit in one giant golden street, followed by the Void. The writer said that he was flying with light speed, even that he started off with lightspeed! Something Flash only managed to do so when he gained the speed of other Flashes. To go from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds. I guess Sentry still needed a short period of time to actually reach the lightspeed, since everything else would be insane, but I don't doubt that he can reach the speed of light when it comes to flying. But actually using speed of light in a fight is a lot harder, since you always have to stop and start moving again, so Flash still has the speed advantage in the fight I think, but without the Speed Force I don't expect that advantage to be all too high, since I remember Sentry showcasing some crazy ass speed feats!
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emperorznb

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#57  Edited By emperorznb

@Afro_Warrior: So true

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#58  Edited By Stronger

Sentry is a loser.Barry takes this.

Though Void stomps.

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Dex_Starr

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#59  Edited By Dex_Starr

@Chibio said:

@the darknessss said:

sentry not light speed quick anyone?

From what I know he is. Long time ago I was reading the comic where the X-Men faced the Dark Avengers and Namor fought Sentry. After that I was confused, because of the Emma Frost and Bob scene, so I tried to goole for it and then I found the interview with the writer of that comic, who explained what happened there: He said that Professor X and Emma managed to get into the White Room Emma has built in Bobs mind and helped him to take over. In the next scene Sentry stopped fighting Namor, looked around and asked himself: 'Oh god, what have I done?'. That meants that Void was in control of the Sentry the entire time and that he was keeping away Bob. When Emma confronted him with that Bob was in control once again and decided that it would be the best if he would leave the battle. He flew up intto the orbit in one giant golden street, followed by the Void. The writer said that he was flying with light speed, even that he started off with lightspeed! Something Flash only managed to do so when he gained the speed of other Flashes. To go from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds. I guess Sentry still needed a short period of time to actually reach the lightspeed, since everything else would be insane, but I don't doubt that he can reach the speed of light when it comes to flying. But actually using speed of light in a fight is a lot harder, since you always have to stop and start moving again, so Flash still has the speed advantage in the fight I think, but without the Speed Force I don't expect that advantage to be all too high, since I remember Sentry showcasing some crazy ass speed feats!

I'm not sure what instances your speaking of, because Bart Barry or Wally are capable of going from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds and have done so several times. Could you also show a scan or cite the issue of this Sentry light speed feat you mentioned? Did it happen in Utopia or Dark X-men?

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Chibio

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#60  Edited By Chibio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@Chibio said:

@the darknessss said:

sentry not light speed quick anyone?

From what I know he is. Long time ago I was reading the comic where the X-Men faced the Dark Avengers and Namor fought Sentry. After that I was confused, because of the Emma Frost and Bob scene, so I tried to goole for it and then I found the interview with the writer of that comic, who explained what happened there: He said that Professor X and Emma managed to get into the White Room Emma has built in Bobs mind and helped him to take over. In the next scene Sentry stopped fighting Namor, looked around and asked himself: 'Oh god, what have I done?'. That meants that Void was in control of the Sentry the entire time and that he was keeping away Bob. When Emma confronted him with that Bob was in control once again and decided that it would be the best if he would leave the battle. He flew up intto the orbit in one giant golden street, followed by the Void. The writer said that he was flying with light speed, even that he started off with lightspeed! Something Flash only managed to do so when he gained the speed of other Flashes. To go from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds. I guess Sentry still needed a short period of time to actually reach the lightspeed, since everything else would be insane, but I don't doubt that he can reach the speed of light when it comes to flying. But actually using speed of light in a fight is a lot harder, since you always have to stop and start moving again, so Flash still has the speed advantage in the fight I think, but without the Speed Force I don't expect that advantage to be all too high, since I remember Sentry showcasing some crazy ass speed feats!

I'm not sure what instances your speaking of, because Bart Barry or Wally are capable of going from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds and have done so several times. Could you also show a scan or cite the issue of this Sentry light speed feat you mentioned? Did it happen in Utopia or Dark X-men?

Hey there! The comic I was talking about is 'Dark Avengers-Uncanny X-Men: Exodus' where they fought! You should check it out, it's actually really good!
And here is the scan of the Sentry flying away, but pay close attention to it, since it's actually quite interesting. At first you see the golden streak behind him, while the Void is following him and THEN in the next picture, you see Osborn looking at him flying away, which should mean that he left a visible streak of himself while flying away and that's actually something Flash would be doing if he would be at two spots at the same time if he wants to hide his identity!
No Caption Provided
 Here is also what the writer said, but it's also very debatable, I agree because in the very same explanation he calls Emma an omega level mutant which she is not. Still, I remember other impressive speed feats which put Sentry above average speed.
 
CBR: What exactly happens with the Sentry and the Void in this scene?
Matt Fraction: Scott and Emma knew they couldn't beat the Sentry, so they had to distract the Void and for a split second Emma does just that. She keeps it within herself long enough for Bob Reynolds to snap to, realize what's happening, and flee. All they needed to do was to buy that half-a-second for the Sentry to take off and he flies into space as fast as he can. He realizes the best thing he can do is get off the battlefield. He goes off at the speed of light and the Void rushes after him to reconnect so they can be whole again.
Doing that has left a sliver of the Void in Emma's psyche. She's got this weird, twisted dagger of darkness incarnate in her brain. So she has to stay trapped in diamond form, which cuts her off from her psychic powers. If she were to go flesh and blood the Void would have access to the abilities of an Omega level telepath. So she's basically the carrier for a disease. That was the price she paid.
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Chibio

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#61  Edited By Chibio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:

I'm not sure what instances your speaking of, because Bart Barry or Wally are capable of going from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds and have done so several times. 
Oh sorry and I was talking about the instance where he fought Zoom and needed the speed of other Flashes to go that fast and Zoom was still still a blur to him. I don't have an explanation for that though, since I also remember Flash pulling off some insane speed feats like saving 500.000 people in a nano second or something, but I would say that's a little bit too much. Flash is like my third favorite character, but he is so overpowered, it's not cool anymore!
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Dex_Starr

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#62  Edited By Dex_Starr

@Chibio said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

I'm not sure what instances your speaking of, because Bart Barry or Wally are capable of going from zero to lightspeed in 0 seconds and have done so several times.
Oh sorry and I was talking about the instance where he fought Zoom and needed the speed of other Flashes to go that fast and Zoom was still still a blur to him. I don't have an explanation for that though, since I also remember Flash pulling off some insane speed feats like saving 500.000 people in a nano second or something, but I would say that's a little bit too much. Flash is like my third favorite character, but he is so overpowered, it's not cool anymore!

In that instance they were fighting between ticks of the clock, between seconds. That doesn't mean he needs to accelerate to go to light speed.

I agree that Flash can be overpowered but I don't think that detracts from the character.

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jaywray

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#63  Edited By jaywray

Barry takes this, although Voided sentry could probably stalemate or beat him really.

On a side note.

Flash is a horrible character in battle forums, he should be banned.

TOAA vs Flash

"YEAH HE MIGHT HAVE CREATED EVERYTHING IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE BUT HES NEVER FACED THE SPEED FORCE BEFORE CAUSE ITS NOT IN HIS UNIVERSE!"

*Mega face palms every time flash is in a battle thread*

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eatmore_payless

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#64  Edited By eatmore_payless

@jaywray said:

Barry takes this, although Voided sentry could probably stalemate or beat him really.

On a side note.

Flash is a horrible character in battle forums, he should be banned.

TOAA vs Flash

"YEAH HE MIGHT HAVE CREATED EVERYTHING IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE BUT HES NEVER FACED THE SPEED FORCE BEFORE CAUSE ITS NOT IN HIS UNIVERSE!"

*Mega face palms every time flash is in a battle thread*

how should he be banned? I mean seriously flash can create a very good debate whenever he is on a battle thread

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jaywray

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#65  Edited By jaywray

@eatmore_payless: Exaggeration for effect my friend :)

No character should ever be banned, clearly, but flash has gotten old on forums, and maybe you're lucky or something, but never once have I seen a good flash debate where flashes side has both given AND taken points to/from the other debate side, its either "Omg stomp for flash" or "Omg why'd you put flash in with someone like that? Obviously a troll"

But hey, thats MY experience, and its not just this site anyway, this is my favourite comic site :L

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#66  Edited By super_psycho

haters gonna hate, Flash gonna stomp

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eatmore_payless

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#67  Edited By eatmore_payless

@super_psycho: yeah!

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#68  Edited By SPM1M

the void has a chance but barry would most likely imp punch sentry and end the fight in point two seconds

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#69  Edited By TrueIlluminatus
@SPM1M said:
the void has a chance but barry would most likely imp punch sentry and end the fight in point two seconds
You're giving Sentry too much credit. He would get leveled in a picosecond.
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#70  Edited By richiekhan

Barry Allen wins. Too fast for Sentry.

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#71  Edited By Floopay

Full Void and without BFR Sentry can't lose this fight.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#72  Edited By HulkSlayerT1000

Sentry stomps Void.......real hard........

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#73  Edited By Bo88gdan

Sentry would win

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@Floopay said:

Full Void and without BFR Sentry can't lose this fight.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

this