Bane VS Ultimate Captain America

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Pokergeist

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@slimj87d said:

@entropy_aegis: @cadencev2: ANyways, I have to go to Alabama for work in a few hours. I'll be busy this whole week I'm just going to retire from this debate.

There is nothing left to debate. No one really made a case for Bane beside slightly better skill with feats from Pre 52 canon.

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entropy_aegis

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#102  Edited By entropy_aegis

@cadencev2: So if Batman manages to gain the upperhand on Superman it means Supes is being sold short by the writers/PIS/joke. You know what? I actually agree and that's the difference between you and me,I can acknowledge PIS even when it benefits my favorite character you on the otherhand dismissed the feat I posted as PIS and like a true hypocrite provided scans where Cap is going up against Thor and Hulk.Seriously what the f*ck is that supposed to be?

It's also clear that you've run out of arguments now that you resorted to attacking DC's continuity,newsflash IT DOESN'T MATTER the OP allowed Pre Flashpoint Bane feats.

You've also dodged the skill question.Bombarding the thread with scans most of which are PIS isn't gonna change anything.Consistency doesn't mean squat either,Jeph Loeb is consistent,doesn't make his work any better,Wolverine is consistently depicted as an unskilled brute doesn't change the fact that he's one of Marvel's elite fighters.

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entropy_aegis

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@slimj87d said:

@entropy_aegis: @cadencev2: ANyways, I have to go to Alabama for work in a few hours. I'll be busy this whole week I'm just going to retire from this debate.

Take your time,we can always continue this.

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#105  Edited By Pokergeist

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: So if Batman manages to gain the upperhand on Superman it means Supes is being sold short by the writers/PIS/joke. You know what? I actually agree and that's the difference between you and me,I can acknowledge PIS even when it benefits my favorite character you on the otherhand dismissed the feat I posted as PIS and like a true hypocrite provided scans where Cap is going up against Thor and Hulk.Seriously what the f*ck is that supposed to be?

It's also clear that you've run out of arguments now that you resorted to attacking DC's continuity,newsflash IT DOESN'T MATTER the OP allowed Pre Flashpoint Bane feats.

You've also dodged the skill question.Bombarding the thread with scans most of which are PIS isn't gonna change anything.Consistency doesn't mean squat either,Jeph Loeb is consistent,doesn't make his work any better,Wolverine is consistently depicted as an unskilled brute doesn't change the fact that he's one of Marvel's elite fighters.

1) So you start saying your better than me cause you acknowledge Peak Human Batman cannot in anyway compare to planet killing Super Man, yet Im the hypocritical one cause Super Human Captain America who legitimately stated in bio and comics has Super Human level stats is PIS when he tanks Consistently 50-100 toner attacks!? Sure....

2) Now your being silly. I am not attacking the legitimacy, I asked a question that NO ONE can give a straight answer to. I even said this.

@cadencev2 said:

I never did understand this (K4TZ tried to explain it to me in Ultimate Cap vs Deathstroke) how New 52 has same feats as pre.

Example.

  • Superman is way different in skill and age!
  • Captain Cold is way different in origin and powers.
  • Batman is nowhere near what he was in knowledge and skill or feats vs Super Humans.

I mean really, there is no indication at all half the time of characters remaining the same. I just do not get where it is obviously not treated like the reboot it is? What am I missing?

Either way this plays no role in this fight, were specifically using feats from both eras, but why do people try to justify the reboot with feats from Pre 52 when clearly there is so many changes, it is inconsistent as all get out with Pre 52?

Look how I underline the important part. Or maybe you have trouble reading?! I was merely asking a personnel question, nothing with the debate.

3) I actually dodged nothing. I said skill wise he would more than likely win with both feats being used. That is all Bane might have on Cap.

@cadencev2 said:

I for one think the H2H fight might go either way. Just how strong is new 52 Bane Venom? Cap has shown consistent 5-9 ton feats.

Also I can see Cap easily pulling the Venom Tubes out for a win.

The Round 2 I will go with Cap all day. Spartan Shield > Battle Axe anyday. More so when Bane has few showings with the Axe and Cap has tons of showings with his Shield.

@cadencev2 said:

I highly doubt that. There is like nothing posted for Bane here and 90% of the posters agree Cap win.

If you think Bane wins that is fine. Just try not to act there was any debate on this thread as to why Bane wins when clearly there was none. Just Cap feats being posted and "Cap Wins" posts.

Unless you mean skill only. Then yeah, I agree he might be more skilled.

Look at that.... Guess I am not so Bias afterall. Unlike you.

So to recap, your acting the fool, and trying to discredit me, and failing, to make your own argument better by what you posted.

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#107 god_spawn  Moderator

@entropy_aegis: It won't as of right now. Savage Wolverine is just a flashback story as far as the current arc goes. It's canon, but just not part of current continuity. I'm not sure how future arcs will play out.

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@entropy_aegis: One of your problems seems to be you're trying to draw a parallel between Ultimate Cap and Batman. That's fallacy. Ultimate Cap is a lot closer to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine than Batman. You know what Spider-Man and Wolverine can both do? Take hits from Class 100 Characters. So not only is Ultimate Cap's durability consistent to him...it's consistent with other guys in his power class.

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#109  Edited By entropy_aegis

@cadencev2: The reason no one gives you a straight answer is because they cant,even DC's executives dont know what they're doing.Also why does Bane have a slight advantage? his skill feats are leagues better. Batman on venom going up against Superman is as legit as Cap going up against Thor and Abomination,accepe both or reject both,dont pick and choose what you like.

@god_spawn said:

@entropy_aegis: It won't as of right now. Savage Wolverine is just a flashback story as far as the current arc goes. It's canon, but just not part of current continuity. I'm not sure how future arcs will play out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis: One of your problems seems to be you're trying to draw a parallel between Ultimate Cap and Batman. That's fallacy. Ultimate Cap is a lot closer to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine than Batman. You know what Spider-Man and Wolverine can both do? Take hits from Class 100 Characters. So not only is Ultimate Cap's durability consistent to him...it's consistent with other guys in his power class.

Wolverine has an admantium skeleton and one of the best healing factors in all of comics,not even close this here is the real fallacy,Spider-Man has been roughed up the likes of Venom,Rhino,Tarantula,Carnage none of them can hold Thor's jock strap or even Hulks for that matter.One good thunder clap and they'd all be jelly.

The only thing consistent with Cap here is that almost all of these showings come from TEAM books,when Bane was in a team book(Salavation run) he rocked Mammoth who is class 80 at the minimum and even withstood lightning. I can give you even more examples but these sort of things are common in team books.You can replace Cap with Daredevil and I guarantee the results will be the same.

Most people try to pass off PIS for regular Cap as well,and he isn't that much superior to Batman.

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#110  Edited By Shawnbaby

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: The reason no one gives you a straight answer is because they cant,even DC's executives dont know what they're doing.Also why does Bane have a slight advantage? his skill feats are leagues better. Batman on venom going up against Superman is as legit as Cap going up against Thor and Abomination,accpet both or reject both,dont pick and choose what you like.

@god_spawn said:

@entropy_aegis: It won't as of right now. Savage Wolverine is just a flashback story as far as the current arc goes. It's canon, but just not part of current continuity. I'm not sure how future arcs will play out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis: One of your problems seems to be you're trying to draw a parallel between Ultimate Cap and Batman. That's fallacy. Ultimate Cap is a lot closer to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine than Batman. You know what Spider-Man and Wolverine can both do? Take hits from Class 100 Characters. So not only is Ultimate Cap's durability consistent to him...it's consistent with other guys in his power class.

Wolverine has an admantium skeleton and one of the best healing factors in all of comics,not even close this here is the real fallacy,Spider-Man has been roughed up the likes of Venom,Rhino,Tarantula,Carnage none of them can hold Thor's jock strap or even Hulks for that matter.One good thunder clap and they'd all be jelly.

The only thing consistent with Cap here is that almost all of these showings come from TEAM books,when Bane was in a team book(Salavation run) he rocked Mammoth who is class 80 at the minimum and even withstood lightning. I can give you even more examples but these sort of things are common in team books.You can replace Cap with Daredevil and I guarantee the results will be the same.

Most people try to pass off PIS for regular Cap as well,and he isn't that much superior to Batman.

Spider-Man has also been roughed up by Juggernaut (Cain) and Juggernaut (Piotr), Hulk, etc. He's taken hits from the Upgraded Rhino (who's at least Class 90). And Wolverine has been roughed up by lower tier guys like Sabretooth, Cyber, Mr. X...it doesn't change tat he can consistently go up against Hulk and Juggernaut. You're acting like just because a lower tier guy like Red Skull can hurt Cap that all his showings against higher tier characters are completely meaningless. Again, That's a Fallacy.

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entropy_aegis

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@shawnbaby: And Bane tanked heat vision as well as a point blank punch to his face from Batman when he had Supermans powers.

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@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: The reason no one gives you a straight answer is because they cant,even DC's executives dont know what they're doing.Also why does Bane have a slight advantage? his skill feats are leagues better. Batman on venom going up against Superman is as legit as Cap going up against Thor and Abomination,accpet both or reject both,dont pick and choose what you like.

@god_spawn said:

@entropy_aegis: It won't as of right now. Savage Wolverine is just a flashback story as far as the current arc goes. It's canon, but just not part of current continuity. I'm not sure how future arcs will play out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis: One of your problems seems to be you're trying to draw a parallel between Ultimate Cap and Batman. That's fallacy. Ultimate Cap is a lot closer to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine than Batman. You know what Spider-Man and Wolverine can both do? Take hits from Class 100 Characters. So not only is Ultimate Cap's durability consistent to him...it's consistent with other guys in his power class.

Wolverine has an admantium skeleton and one of the best healing factors in all of comics,not even close this here is the real fallacy,Spider-Man has been roughed up the likes of Venom,Rhino,Tarantula,Carnage none of them can hold Thor's jock strap or even Hulks for that matter.One good thunder clap and they'd all be jelly.

The only thing consistent with Cap here is that almost all of these showings come from TEAM books,when Bane was in a team book(Salavation run) he rocked Mammoth who is class 80 at the minimum and even withstood lightning. I can give you even more examples but these sort of things are common in team books.You can replace Cap with Daredevil and I guarantee the results will be the same.

Most people try to pass off PIS for regular Cap as well,and he isn't that much superior to Batman.

Spider-Man has also been roughed up by Juggernaut (Cain) and Juggernaut (Piotr), Hulk, etc. He's taken hits from the Upgraded Rhino (who's at least Class 90). And Wolverine has been roughed up by lower tier guys like Sabretooth, Cyber, Mr. X...it doesn't change tat he can consistently go up against Hulk and Juggernaut. You're acting like just because a lower tier guy like Red Skull can hurt Cap that all his showings against higher tier characters are completely meaningless. Again, That's a Fallacy.

Cyber isn't low tier,Mr X has a specific power set that works to his advantage,Sabretooth has been getting his ass handed to him for years.

The Red Skull story was Cap centric,so was the mini series where he faced Nuke,are you implying that Cap's Avengers feats hold more weight than his solo feats?

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@shawnbaby: And Bane tanked heat vision as well as a point blank punch to his face from Batman when he had Supermans powers.

There's lots of people that have taken punches from Superman that don't have Superman stats.

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#114  Edited By Shawnbaby

@entropy_aegis said:

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: The reason no one gives you a straight answer is because they cant,even DC's executives dont know what they're doing.Also why does Bane have a slight advantage? his skill feats are leagues better. Batman on venom going up against Superman is as legit as Cap going up against Thor and Abomination,accpet both or reject both,dont pick and choose what you like.

@god_spawn said:

@entropy_aegis: It won't as of right now. Savage Wolverine is just a flashback story as far as the current arc goes. It's canon, but just not part of current continuity. I'm not sure how future arcs will play out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis: One of your problems seems to be you're trying to draw a parallel between Ultimate Cap and Batman. That's fallacy. Ultimate Cap is a lot closer to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine than Batman. You know what Spider-Man and Wolverine can both do? Take hits from Class 100 Characters. So not only is Ultimate Cap's durability consistent to him...it's consistent with other guys in his power class.

Wolverine has an admantium skeleton and one of the best healing factors in all of comics,not even close this here is the real fallacy,Spider-Man has been roughed up the likes of Venom,Rhino,Tarantula,Carnage none of them can hold Thor's jock strap or even Hulks for that matter.One good thunder clap and they'd all be jelly.

The only thing consistent with Cap here is that almost all of these showings come from TEAM books,when Bane was in a team book(Salavation run) he rocked Mammoth who is class 80 at the minimum and even withstood lightning. I can give you even more examples but these sort of things are common in team books.You can replace Cap with Daredevil and I guarantee the results will be the same.

Most people try to pass off PIS for regular Cap as well,and he isn't that much superior to Batman.

Spider-Man has also been roughed up by Juggernaut (Cain) and Juggernaut (Piotr), Hulk, etc. He's taken hits from the Upgraded Rhino (who's at least Class 90). And Wolverine has been roughed up by lower tier guys like Sabretooth, Cyber, Mr. X...it doesn't change tat he can consistently go up against Hulk and Juggernaut. You're acting like just because a lower tier guy like Red Skull can hurt Cap that all his showings against higher tier characters are completely meaningless. Again, That's a Fallacy.

Cyber isn't low tier,Mr X has a specific power set that works to his advantage,Sabretooth has been getting his ass handed to him for years.

The Red Skull story was Cap centric,so was the mini series where he faced Nuke,are you implying that Cap's Avengers feats hold more weight than his solo feats?

Cyber, as you put it, "Can't hold Thor's Jockstrap." And while it's true Sabretooth has been reduced to a jobber in more recent years, in the old days he was always a strong match-up against Logan....most of the time giving at least as good as he got.

That's not what I'm implying at all. I'm saying that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. You're the one that's suggesting that they can't. You're trying to make a case that all the great feats that established the character, long before he even had a solo series, should just be ignored.

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#2 Posted by SheenLantern (2418 posts) - 2 days, 48 minutes ago - Show

R.I.P Bane

^^What he said

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#116  Edited By slimj87d

Again, why is the red skull showing being used to relate to bane?

Red skull caught Cap completely by surprise and hit him in the back of the head with a brittle (the metal cracks instead of bends, brittle metal is harder than ductile metal) in the back of the head in addition to being stronger than Steve. It's not like they started on neutral grounds and a distance apart.

Bane hasn't been proven to be stronger than ultimate Cap, nor is Bane going to get a sneak attack like Red Skull did.

There is no legitimate correlation here nor do I see why this discredits Steve in h2h skill in anyway.

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@cadencev2: Since you were asking how strong new 52 Bane is here you go:

Here is Banes fight with batman.

And for the physical feats:

Tossing a massive boulder with ease. I think the boulder weighs about 5 tons.
Tossing a massive boulder with ease. I think the boulder weighs about 5 tons.
Leaping a lighthouse.
Leaping a lighthouse.

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@jashro44: The Boulder looks impressive.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

But why people think it is more impressive than these 2 feats alone? That tree alone would realisticly weight 5-7 ton area and smashed a Up Armored Military Oshkosh vehicle with ease before cap caught it! Momentum and everything which is more impressive than Dead Lifting a Boulder.

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#119  Edited By jashro44

@cadencev2: Well the tree feat was debated in this thread. There seem to be different interpretations. As for the other feat personally I think we need to take into account that Cap is lifting one end of it and not the entire weight off the ground. Its still impressive though. I think strength is pretty even personally.

Also Bane didn't just lift it but he also did toss it.

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@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: Well the tree feat was debated in this thread. There seem to be different interpretations. As for the other feat personally I think we need to take into account that Cap is lifting one end of it and not the entire weight off the ground. Its still impressive though. I think strength is pretty even personally.

Also Bane didn't just lift it but he also did toss it.

Fair enough. The Spider Man feats I posted still stand :)

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@cadencev2: Well ultimate Peter was exhausted. Again still impressive but I personally think ultimate Peter is stronger then ultimate cap.

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@cadencev2: hed smash cap in the ground and bend his shield, cap reallies on his shield for protection something that wont help him with tons smashing into it, his bones would break idc if hes physically enhANCED HES HUMAN, HES DEAD

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#123  Edited By Pokergeist

@cadencev2: hed smash cap in the ground and bend his shield, cap reallies on his shield for protection something that wont help him with tons smashing into it, his bones would break idc if hes physically enhANCED HES HUMAN, HES DEAD

Say what?

Cap Shield tanks 100 toners like Zarda and Thor hits. His Shield is uncuttable by Sabertooths Admantium Claws. He tank Nimrod Sentinal Blasts with no probs.

Are you being funny? I assume you are.

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#124  Edited By entropy_aegis

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@shawnbaby: And Bane tanked heat vision as well as a point blank punch to his face from Batman when he had Supermans powers.

There's lots of people that have taken punches from Superman that don't have Superman stats.

So? for some reason it's only impressive when Cap does it? and it was Batman who had Superman's power not Supes himself.Batman here was completely bloodlusted the magic that allowed the switch to happen was also corrupting him,he even ripped apart Bane's torso and Bane survived due to his healing factor,now THAT'S healing.

No Caption Provided

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: The reason no one gives you a straight answer is because they cant,even DC's executives dont know what they're doing.Also why does Bane have a slight advantage? his skill feats are leagues better. Batman on venom going up against Superman is as legit as Cap going up against Thor and Abomination,accpet both or reject both,dont pick and choose what you like.

@god_spawn said:

@entropy_aegis: It won't as of right now. Savage Wolverine is just a flashback story as far as the current arc goes. It's canon, but just not part of current continuity. I'm not sure how future arcs will play out.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis: One of your problems seems to be you're trying to draw a parallel between Ultimate Cap and Batman. That's fallacy. Ultimate Cap is a lot closer to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine than Batman. You know what Spider-Man and Wolverine can both do? Take hits from Class 100 Characters. So not only is Ultimate Cap's durability consistent to him...it's consistent with other guys in his power class.

Wolverine has an admantium skeleton and one of the best healing factors in all of comics,not even close this here is the real fallacy,Spider-Man has been roughed up the likes of Venom,Rhino,Tarantula,Carnage none of them can hold Thor's jock strap or even Hulks for that matter.One good thunder clap and they'd all be jelly.

The only thing consistent with Cap here is that almost all of these showings come from TEAM books,when Bane was in a team book(Salavation run) he rocked Mammoth who is class 80 at the minimum and even withstood lightning. I can give you even more examples but these sort of things are common in team books.You can replace Cap with Daredevil and I guarantee the results will be the same.

Most people try to pass off PIS for regular Cap as well,and he isn't that much superior to Batman.

Spider-Man has also been roughed up by Juggernaut (Cain) and Juggernaut (Piotr), Hulk, etc. He's taken hits from the Upgraded Rhino (who's at least Class 90). And Wolverine has been roughed up by lower tier guys like Sabretooth, Cyber, Mr. X...it doesn't change tat he can consistently go up against Hulk and Juggernaut. You're acting like just because a lower tier guy like Red Skull can hurt Cap that all his showings against higher tier characters are completely meaningless. Again, That's a Fallacy.

Cyber isn't low tier,Mr X has a specific power set that works to his advantage,Sabretooth has been getting his ass handed to him for years.

The Red Skull story was Cap centric,so was the mini series where he faced Nuke,are you implying that Cap's Avengers feats hold more weight than his solo feats?

Cyber, as you put it, "Can't hold Thor's Jockstrap." And while it's true Sabretooth has been reduced to a jobber in more recent years, in the old days he was always a strong match-up against Logan....most of the time giving at least as good as he got.

That's not what I'm implying at all. I'm saying that they don't have to be mutually exclusive. You're the one that's suggesting that they can't. You're trying to make a case that all the great feats that established the character, long before he even had a solo series, should just be ignored.

And I'm pretty sure Cyber hasn't ever tried to hold Thor's jockstrap,cause you know he cant.

I'm saying that we should use feats with in Cap's class,100 tons is far beyond Cap's weight class,it's not even funny.

Some people have also mentioned Cap going for the tubes,it's a plausible tactic but also a predictable possibility that Bane himself happens to be aware of.

First of all the contrary to popular opinion the tubes have only been pulled off once in Bane's entire history,and the delivery system back then was very much different from this one.

Secondly pulling the tubes will not accomplish anything,the venom inside his body will stay with him for hours(confirmed in Batwoman) also confirmed in TDK because Batman had to use a counter toxin to neutralize venom.

Finally if Cap does succeed it'll be because Bane wanted him to,venom isn't just some strength enhancing steroid,it comes with some serious side effects,Bane has used it to control Deathstroke.

So if Cap tries to pull out the tubes Bane force feeds him venom,then he keeps his distance.

1) So either Cap becomes Bane's lackey(the spirit of America wont be so strong here)

2) or Cap does fight it off but the toll it'll take on him will leave him completely vulnerable.This is a credible tactic that Bane has used more than once.

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#125  Edited By Pokergeist

@entropy_aegis:

Finally if Cap does succeed it'll be because Bane wanted him to,venom isn't just some strength enhancing steroid,it comes with some serious side effects,Bane has used it to control Deathstroke.

So if Cap tries to pull out the tubes Bane force feeds him venom,then he keeps his distance.

1) So either Cap becomes Bane's lackey(the spirit of America wont be so strong here)

2) or Cap does fight it off but the toll it'll take on him will leave him completely vulnerable.This is a credible tactic that Bane has used more than once.

Silly boy. Cap Healing Factor cured him of Vampirism. There is no sickness or drug that can affect him.

No Caption Provided

Magical Vampirism >>> Venom Drug.

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@entropy_aegis:

Finally if Cap does succeed it'll be because Bane wanted him to,venom isn't just some strength enhancing steroid,it comes with some serious side effects,Bane has used it to control Deathstroke.

So if Cap tries to pull out the tubes Bane force feeds him venom,then he keeps his distance.

1) So either Cap becomes Bane's lackey(the spirit of America wont be so strong here)

2) or Cap does fight it off but the toll it'll take on him will leave him completely vulnerable.This is a credible tactic that Bane has used more than once.

Silly boy. Cap Healing Factor cured him of Vampirism. There is no sickness or drug that can affect him.

No Caption Provided

Magical Vampirism >>> Venom Drug.

That took him ages, he was under control for over an hour

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entropy_aegis

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#127  Edited By entropy_aegis

@cadencev2 said:

@entropy_aegis:

Finally if Cap does succeed it'll be because Bane wanted him to,venom isn't just some strength enhancing steroid,it comes with some serious side effects,Bane has used it to control Deathstroke.

So if Cap tries to pull out the tubes Bane force feeds him venom,then he keeps his distance.

1) So either Cap becomes Bane's lackey(the spirit of America wont be so strong here)

2) or Cap does fight it off but the toll it'll take on him will leave him completely vulnerable.This is a credible tactic that Bane has used more than once.

Silly boy. Cap Healing Factor cured him of Vampirism. There is no sickness or drug that can affect him.

No Caption Provided

Magical Vampirism >>> Venom Drug.

Little man Deathstroke's healing>Cap's and Flash had to run at light speeds to burn it off,it even affected Clayface.

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#128  Edited By Pokergeist

@dondave said:


That took him ages, he was under control for over an hour

It took over night, then he was immune to it, and yet Nerd Hulk never beat the Sickness with his Hulk Clone Body that Adapts to anything.

@cadencev2 said:

Little man Deathstroke's healing>Cap's and Flash had to run at light speeds to burn it off,it even affected Clayface.

Yet both Batman and Bane can and have kick that drug with their Peak Human bodies.

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@dondave said:

That took him ages, he was under control for over an hour

It took over night, then he was immune to it, and yet Nerd Hulk never beat the Sickness with his Hulk Clone Body that Adapts to anything.

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2 said:

Little man Deathstroke's healing>Cap's and Flash had to run at light speeds to burn it off,it even affected Clayface.

Yet both Batman and Bane can and have kick that drug with their Peak Human bodies.

Batman's fight with Superman burned it off,he exhausted his power on Supes. Bane? ofcourse it doesn't work on him,how can you mind control yourself?

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#130  Edited By dondave

@dondave said:

That took him ages, he was under control for over an hour

It took over night, then he was immune to it, and yet Nerd Hulk never beat the Sickness with his Hulk Clone Body that Adapts to anything.

Clone Hulk as noted by Captain America doesn't have the rage necessary that make Hulk the beast he is, the would also be tied to his healing fcator

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#131  Edited By krauser99

@jashro44: The Boulder looks impressive.

But why people think it is more impressive than these 2 feats alone? That tree alone would realisticly weight 5-7 ton area and smashed a Up Armored Military Oshkosh vehicle with ease before cap caught it! Momentum and everything which is more impressive than Dead Lifting a Boulder.

Well the reason I think so. Is because Bane did his way easier then Cap and he military pressed it easily with no strain. No help of a shield or body leg strength, just picks it up over his head with no strain. The second boulder he did is easily as well.

Seriously Bane can military press that for his work outs. While Cap uses these to maintain in top form. These are impressive for Ult Cap but the way Bane did his easily he could lift both of these with one arm for his rep work outs.

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@dondave: True but Nerd Hulk body still has a Healing Factor and Nerd Hulk can still dish out and tank 100 ton force hits with no lasting damage. He still has a calm Hulk Healing Factor. Also Nerd Hulk actually has raged twice in the Avenger Comics. He is not incapable of raging out like Ultimate Hulk.

@krauser99: So then you ignore the Tricking feats and other Strength feats of Cap because he spends whole days working out? He could been repping for 2 days straight. No time frame is given. Heck Cap could be doing that for a cool down exorcise. The Repping scans in now way take away the main Strength feats and striking feats Cap have.

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#133  Edited By krauser99

@krauser99: So then you ignore the Tricking feats and other Strength feats of Cap because he spends whole days working out? He could been repping for 2 days straight. No time frame is given. Heck Cap could be doing that for a cool down exorcise. The Repping scans in now way take away the main Strength feats and striking feats Cap have.

This seems like your speculation unless stated with scans repping 2 days. This is what we see and this is what is used for his work out. And his portrayal of strength does not seem to be Bane's level. As your two feat's don't suggest it as well. I'm not arguing striking feats. Just in raw strength Bane seems much stronger.

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#134  Edited By Shawnbaby

@krauser99 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@jashro44: The Boulder looks impressive.

But why people think it is more impressive than these 2 feats alone? That tree alone would realisticly weight 5-7 ton area and smashed a Up Armored Military Oshkosh vehicle with ease before cap caught it! Momentum and everything which is more impressive than Dead Lifting a Boulder.

Well the reason I think so. Is because Bane did his way easier then Cap and he military pressed it easily with no strain. No help of a shield or body leg strength, just picks it up over his head with no strain. The second boulder he did is easily as well.

Seriously Bane can military press that for his work outs. While Cap uses these to maintain in top form. These are impressive for Ult Cap but the way Bane did his easily he could lift both of these with one arm for his rep work outs.

Ok...First of all...we don't see Bane actually lift the rock...He's got his hand on it in one panel...and he's got it lifted over his head in the next. So there's no way to tell what kind of lifting technique he used to do so.

Second...the only reason People are saying Cap was straining was because he had a grimace on his face. Well...we can't see Bane's Face...so there's also no way to know if he lifted the Boulder easily. There's no way to know if Bane can Military press that Rock.

Third... people are really discounting the fact that Cap caught the Tree in motion... if you don't think that's a big deal...try an experiment. Pick up the heaviest thing you can lift. Pretty tough right? Now, have that same thing fall on you from above and try to catch it....That's what Cap is doing. And he's doing it away from the centre of gravity...which makes it that much harder. If you don't think that's an incredibly impressive feat...then you just aren't very good at physics.

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#135  Edited By Pokergeist

@krauser99 said:

@krauser99: So then you ignore the Tricking feats and other Strength feats of Cap because he spends whole days working out? He could been repping for 2 days straight. No time frame is given. Heck Cap could be doing that for a cool down exorcise. The Repping scans in now way take away the main Strength feats and striking feats Cap have.

This seems like your speculation unless stated with scans repping 2 days. This is what we see and this is what is used for his work out. And his portrayal of strength does not seem to be Bane's level. As your two feat's don't suggest it as well. I'm not arguing striking feats. Just in raw strength Bane seems much stronger.

By your logic your argument is "He lift one set of dumbbells and is sweating" cause that is all the scan tells us as it is. If anything your speculating that is all there is to it. I was deployed on a Ship a few times with Marines. They do not work out in the gym on one piece of equipment and call it a day. Common sense shows Cap was doing way more than what is simply shown.

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#136  Edited By entropy_aegis

@shawnbaby said:

@krauser99 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@jashro44: The Boulder looks impressive.

But why people think it is more impressive than these 2 feats alone? That tree alone would realisticly weight 5-7 ton area and smashed a Up Armored Military Oshkosh vehicle with ease before cap caught it! Momentum and everything which is more impressive than Dead Lifting a Boulder.

Well the reason I think so. Is because Bane did his way easier then Cap and he military pressed it easily with no strain. No help of a shield or body leg strength, just picks it up over his head with no strain. The second boulder he did is easily as well.

Seriously Bane can military press that for his work outs. While Cap uses these to maintain in top form. These are impressive for Ult Cap but the way Bane did his easily he could lift both of these with one arm for his rep work outs.

Ok...First of all...we don't see Bane actually lift the rock...He's got his hand on it in one panel...and he's got it lifted over his head in the next. So there's no way to tell what kind of lifting technique he used to do so.

Second...the only reason People are saying Cap was straining was because he had a grimace on his face. Well...we can't see Bane's Face...so there's also no way to know if he lifted the Boulder easily. There's no way to know if Bane can Military press that Rock.

Third... people are really discounting the fact that Cap caught the Tree in motion... if you don't think that's a big deal...try an experiment. Pick up the heaviest thing you can lift. Pretty tough right? Now, have that same thing fall on you from above and try to catch it....That's what Cap is doing. And he's doing it away from the centre of gravity...which makes it that much harder. If you don't think that's an incredibly impressive feat...then you just aren't very good at physics.

If Bane had any trouble lifting it I'm sure the writer would've added "uh" or "aargh",the fact that he didn't clearly shows that Bane can lift it with easy,and I've seen Bane grimace/show emotion even with the mask on,it's really easy to tell.

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@shawnbaby: @entropy_aegis: Ive seen artist who suck at any facial expressions draw comics. Not all artist are the same to say "I've seen Bane grimace even with the mask on,it's really easy to tell."

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@cadencev2: True but there's no evidence to prove that Bane struggled,that's just an assumption that has no solid ground to stand on.

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@cadencev2: True but there's no evidence to prove that Bane struggled,that's just an assumption that has no solid ground to stand on.

I agree with that.

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@krauser99 said:

@krauser99: So then you ignore the Tricking feats and other Strength feats of Cap because he spends whole days working out? He could been repping for 2 days straight. No time frame is given. Heck Cap could be doing that for a cool down exorcise. The Repping scans in now way take away the main Strength feats and striking feats Cap have.

This seems like your speculation unless stated with scans repping 2 days. This is what we see and this is what is used for his work out. And his portrayal of strength does not seem to be Bane's level. As your two feat's don't suggest it as well. I'm not arguing striking feats. Just in raw strength Bane seems much stronger.

By your logic your argument is "He lift one set of dumbbells and is sweating" cause that is all the scan tells us as it is. If anything your speculating that is all there is to it. I was deployed on a Ship a few times with Marines. They do not work out in the gym on one piece of equipment and call it a day. Common sense shows Cap was doing way more than what is simply shown.

Sigh.....fine Candence. Ult Cap was repping those a billion times. Better? LOL

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@cadencev2 said:

@krauser99 said:

@krauser99: So then you ignore the Tricking feats and other Strength feats of Cap because he spends whole days working out? He could been repping for 2 days straight. No time frame is given. Heck Cap could be doing that for a cool down exorcise. The Repping scans in now way take away the main Strength feats and striking feats Cap have.

This seems like your speculation unless stated with scans repping 2 days. This is what we see and this is what is used for his work out. And his portrayal of strength does not seem to be Bane's level. As your two feat's don't suggest it as well. I'm not arguing striking feats. Just in raw strength Bane seems much stronger.

By your logic your argument is "He lift one set of dumbbells and is sweating" cause that is all the scan tells us as it is. If anything your speculating that is all there is to it. I was deployed on a Ship a few times with Marines. They do not work out in the gym on one piece of equipment and call it a day. Common sense shows Cap was doing way more than what is simply shown.

Sigh.....fine Candence. Ult Cap was repping those a billion times. Better? LOL

No. I just think Cap was doing more than simply repping till he sweat. That makes no sense from a work out view.

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#142  Edited By krauser99

No Caption Provided

Also this one you can see Bane's face expression. No grimacing and no shield aid as he throws if far easily.

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@krauser99 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@krauser99 said:

@krauser99: So then you ignore the Tricking feats and other Strength feats of Cap because he spends whole days working out? He could been repping for 2 days straight. No time frame is given. Heck Cap could be doing that for a cool down exorcise. The Repping scans in now way take away the main Strength feats and striking feats Cap have.

This seems like your speculation unless stated with scans repping 2 days. This is what we see and this is what is used for his work out. And his portrayal of strength does not seem to be Bane's level. As your two feat's don't suggest it as well. I'm not arguing striking feats. Just in raw strength Bane seems much stronger.

By your logic your argument is "He lift one set of dumbbells and is sweating" cause that is all the scan tells us as it is. If anything your speculating that is all there is to it. I was deployed on a Ship a few times with Marines. They do not work out in the gym on one piece of equipment and call it a day. Common sense shows Cap was doing way more than what is simply shown.

Sigh.....fine Candence. Ult Cap was repping those a billion times. Better? LOL

No. I just think Cap was doing more than simply repping till he sweat. That makes no sense from a work out view.

You sweat more doing reps then maxing out. I'm sure if he was maxing out it would be much more.

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#144  Edited By Shawnbaby

@krauser99 said:

No Caption Provided

Also this one you can see Bane's face expression. No grimacing and no shield aid as he throws if far easily.

You can't see Bane's expression as he lifts the Rock...you can barely see his face at all...there's no detail work to signify any expression. I'm not saying he was straining...just that there's no way to tell whether or not he was from this page.

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@krauser99 said:

Also this one you can see Bane's face expression. No grimacing and no shield aid as he throws if far easily.

You can't see Bane's expression as he lifts the Rock...you can barely see his face at all...there's no detail work to signify any expression. I'm not saying he was straining...just that there's no way to tell whether or not he was from this page.

Really we went over this already.

@shawnbaby: @entropy_aegis: Ive seen artist who suck at any facial expressions draw comics. Not all artist are the same to say "I've seen Bane grimace even with the mask on,it's really easy to tell."

So once again...

Ive seen artist who suck at any facial expressions draw comics. Not all artist are the same to say "Also this one you can see Bane's face expression. No grimacing and no shield aid as he throws if far easily."

Not a legit argument.... again >_>

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With all that's been said and shown I think Ult. Captain America wins this in both the alternatives. I believe Cap is superior to Bane in everything, execpt maybe for strength. I know Ult. Cap. is on par with spiderman in strength but those strength features from Ult. spiderman just seemed a little too much and I actually don't see Ult. Cap doing the same. As for skill, Bane was really good before New 52 (figth with Azazel) but still I think Cap is superior. As for durability, that's where Cap has the greater advantage I guess (besides healing factor and shield). Being able to whitstand blows form 100+ is not PIS since it was shown almost on a regular basis (Hulk, Abomination, Juggernaut, Warmachine, Ironman suits and the list goes on).

1 - Cap wins 8/10

2 - Cap wins 10/10

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#147  Edited By krauser99

@alexandrinus said:

I know Ult. Cap. is on par with spiderman in strength but those strength features from Ult. spiderman just seemed a little too much and I actually don't see Ult. Cap doing the same.

Most fans don't count writer statements since there not always on print. But I remember when that scene came up with Kleiser(however you spell his name) stated that Steve seemed much slower in comparison to WW2.

In the Mark Miller forums he was asked about that and Miller stated that Ult Cap's strength and speed are getting weaker.

I never bothered saving the quote of his(at the time I was to interested in Ed Brubakers own quotes.) Which even the majority of those I lost....LOL. But that could explain why his work out scenes are not so impressive but who knows maybe future writers will ignore such remarks from Miller.(It'll be nothing more then a mid summer dream.)

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@krauser99: Future writers are gonna have to deal with Galactus first.

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@shawnbaby: @entropy_aegis: Ive seen artist who suck at any facial expressions draw comics. Not all artist are the same to say "I've seen Bane grimace even with the mask on,it's really easy to tell."

*COUGHROBLIEFELDCOUGH*