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#1 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane

VS

Captain America (Ultimate)

Rules

  • Both pre and post flashpoint feats can be used for Bane
  • Bane is on his new venom formula in the new 52
  • Morals are on
  • Random encounter
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation

Round one

  • Both are unarmed and this is hand to hand combat

Round two

  • Ultimate captain america has his shield and Bane has a promethium battle axe

Location

  • Both begin visible
  • Begin 5 feet apart
  • Unpopulated
  • Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by SheenLantern (5315 posts) - - Show Bio

R.I.P Bane

#3 Posted by dondave (26547 posts) - - Show Bio

Ult Cap Easily

#4 Posted by Cgoodness (2270 posts) - - Show Bio

Give bane some prep and he has a good chance, but Cap wins all rounds

#6 Posted by nickzambuto (11423 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm. Even New 52 venom, Bane isn't really that much stronger than Cap. Coupled with the fact that Steve holds just about every other advantage, well...

I still think 616 Cap vs Bane is a better fight (though he'd lose to New 52 venom)

#7 Posted by Wolverine08 (26340 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Cap puts his shield through Bane's head, and let's him know he's from America.

#8 Posted by Jmarshmallow (2716 posts) - - Show Bio

Ult. Cap breaks Bane's back.

Jmarshmallow

#9 Edited by SheenLantern (5315 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Ult Cap Easily

@dondave said:

Ult Cap Easily

I couldn't agree more, Cap wins so easily that it simply can't be expressed in just one comment.

#10 Edited by dondave (26547 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Ult Cap Easily

@dondave said:

Ult Cap Easily

I couldn't agree more, Cap wins so easily that it simply can't be expressed in just one comment.

Crap

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22302 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone of these endings apply to this battle.

#12 Posted by laflux (11029 posts) - - Show Bio

If we choose to use Ult Cap's high end feats, then he is a 9-10 tonner, and his striking feats out-rank someone of the rating. Not to mention that he's faster, shown more durability to blunt and penetrative tramua and heals quicker. The only thing I'd say Bane may have an edge in is skill, and that is a narrow one IMO.

#13 Posted by krauser99 (633 posts) - - Show Bio

Ult Cap wins due to being just as brutal as Bane. Kind of like the morals off 616 Cap vs Bane thread.

#14 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Cap smashes him. He's tougher, meaner and doesn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

#15 Posted by homicidalmaniac (5326 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr America

#16 Posted by Thesrk (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap without a doubt

#17 Posted by Cyberzombie_Hatchetman (169 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Cap can knock the Hulk on his ass. Bane has no chance.

#18 Edited by patrat18 (6738 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

Here we go again with the Cap America wankery,all those people saying Hulk and whatnot may I remind you that this Cap got his ass beaten by Nuke and Red Skull? gotta love how Cap fans ignore his feats against his own villains and bring up Hulk.

Bane wins,their physicals might be comparable but if we're allowed to use Pre Flashpoint Bane feats than Bane is easily the superior fighter,unlike Ult Cap he didn't get his ass beat by every skilled fighter he went up against.

#20 Posted by Pokergeist (22302 posts) - - Show Bio

Here we go again with the Cap America wankery,all those people saying Hulk and whatnot may I remind you that this Cap got his ass beaten by Nuke and Red Skull? gotta love how Cap fans ignore his feats against his own villains and bring up Hulk.

Bane wins,their physicals might be comparable but if we're allowed to use Pre Flashpoint Bane feats than Bane is easily the superior fighter,unlike Ult Cap he didn't get his ass beat by every skilled fighter he went up against.

So Cap was beaten by Nuke, who had the same stats and training, advantage of surprise, and was soundly beaten by Cap later was a bad showing?

Or Cap beaten by Red Skull who is stronger, faster, and more skilled with decades of experience and training a low showing?

Sure, that just proves how inferior Ultimate Cap is. Why not.

#21 Posted by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

#22 Posted by Pokergeist (22302 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

Yet... Cap beat....

  • Black Panther easy, he had great feats and statements of being good.
  • Nuke, who had already showed great skill and stated to be train as a replacement for Cap in Vietnam, he is far from featless as such when Cap beaten him.
  • Abdul who showed very impressive skill in their fight, and Abdul fought a heavily drugged and battered Cap.
  • The Alien Nazi Commander who was stated and shown to have great skill and over 6 decades of experiance and then some. Not to mention the raw stats Cap had to overcome.
  • Cap by himself beaten the entire Avengers Roster with tactics and skill. The entire roster, in the end he had to give them a way to win. This includes Hawkeye who was very well establish, Black Widow 2 who is also well establish as skillful, and beaten out the stats of Warmachine, Nerd Hulk, and others.
  • Cap easily takes down with Thor most of Hela's Asgardian warriors. Just the 2 of them and Thor was not even using powers or nothing. A whole army of Asgardian warriors who lived and breath war for longer years we as humans live.
  • Cap easily kept up with Sabertooth who has establish skill thanks to X-Men comics and Sabertooth Sneak Attack him from the get go!
  • Cap beaten out the superior stats of Silver Heralds twice!
  • Cap easily defeated the Russian train Captain Russian who lived and breath battles with a prison full of failed Super Soldiers.
  • Cap with his skill beat out the large stat difference of Giant Man.
  • Cap with skill put Hulk on his butt long enough to have a conversation with Nick Fury!
  • Then we have the common theme of Cap time and again beating down entire armies of Troops that would given America's own Real Life Airborne Rangers a hard time, by himself and with ease!

Why is Bane so superior in H2H? Is it because Ultimate Marvel has not been around longer than Pre 52 Comics? If we go by New 52, Bane is dang near featless thanks to the reboot!

I think your trying to find fault here.

#23 Posted by Shawnbaby (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

Yet... Cap beat....

  • Black Panther easy, he had great feats and statements of being good.
  • Nuke, who had already showed great skill and stated to be train as a replacement for Cap in Vietnam, he is far from featless as such when Cap beaten him.
  • Abdul who showed very impressive skill in their fight, and Abdul fought a heavily drugged and battered Cap.
  • The Alien Nazi Commander who was stated and shown to have great skill and over 6 decades of experiance and then some. Not to mention the raw stats Cap had to overcome.
  • Cap by himself beaten the entire Avengers Roster with tactics and skill. The entire roster, in the end he had to give them a way to win. This includes Hawkeye who was very well establish, Black Widow 2 who is also well establish as skillful, and beaten out the stats of Warmachine, Nerd Hulk, and others.
  • Cap easily takes down with Thor most of Hela's Asgardian warriors. Just the 2 of them and Thor was not even using powers or nothing. A whole army of Asgardian warriors who lived and breath war for longer years we as humans live.
  • Cap easily kept up with Sabertooth who has establish skill thanks to X-Men comics and Sabertooth Sneak Attack him from the get go!
  • Cap beaten out the superior stats of Silver Heralds twice!
  • Cap easily defeated the Russian train Captain Russian who lived and breath battles with a prison full of failed Super Soldiers.
  • Cap with his skill beat out the large stat difference of Giant Man.
  • Cap with skill put Hulk on his butt long enough to have a conversation with Nick Fury!
  • Then we have the common theme of Cap time and again beating down entire armies of Troops that would given America's own Real Life Airborne Rangers a hard time, by himself and with ease!

Why is Bane so superior in H2H? Is it because Ultimate Marvel has not been around longer than Pre 52 Comics? If we go by New 52, Bane is dang near featless thanks to the reboot!

I think your trying to find fault here.

It's even worse than that...based on the feats New 52 Bane has he's just a brawler that relies on his Venom to pull him through fights. Ultimate Cap has better Feats for both Skill and Strength.

#24 Posted by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

Yet... Cap beat....

  • Black Panther easy, he had great feats and statements of being good.
  • Nuke, who had already showed great skill and stated to be train as a replacement for Cap in Vietnam, he is far from featless as such when Cap beaten him.
  • Abdul who showed very impressive skill in their fight, and Abdul fought a heavily drugged and battered Cap.
  • The Alien Nazi Commander who was stated and shown to have great skill and over 6 decades of experiance and then some. Not to mention the raw stats Cap had to overcome.
  • Cap by himself beaten the entire Avengers Roster with tactics and skill. The entire roster, in the end he had to give them a way to win. This includes Hawkeye who was very well establish, Black Widow 2 who is also well establish as skillful, and beaten out the stats of Warmachine, Nerd Hulk, and others.
  • Cap easily takes down with Thor most of Hela's Asgardian warriors. Just the 2 of them and Thor was not even using powers or nothing. A whole army of Asgardian warriors who lived and breath war for longer years we as humans live.
  • Cap easily kept up with Sabertooth who has establish skill thanks to X-Men comics and Sabertooth Sneak Attack him from the get go!
  • Cap beaten out the superior stats of Silver Heralds twice!
  • Cap easily defeated the Russian train Captain Russian who lived and breath battles with a prison full of failed Super Soldiers.
  • Cap with his skill beat out the large stat difference of Giant Man.
  • Cap with skill put Hulk on his butt long enough to have a conversation with Nick Fury!
  • Then we have the common theme of Cap time and again beating down entire armies of Troops that would given America's own Real Life Airborne Rangers a hard time, by himself and with ease!

Why is Bane so superior in H2H? Is it because Ultimate Marvel has not been around longer than Pre 52 Comics? If we go by New 52, Bane is dang near featless thanks to the reboot!

I think your trying to find fault here.

The OP allowed Pre-Flashpoint Bane feats for the purpose of this thread.

Most of those characters didn't have good feats of their own,them doing well against Cap is GOOD FOR THEM not Cap.

The rest are typical hero feats(Asgardians,Thor,Hulk),make Bane a JLA member and he'll be doing the same.

#25 Posted by Shawnbaby (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

And Pre-52 Bane lost to street level characters with less skill and lower stats than Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap wins.

#26 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1407 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I haven't seen anyone mention Hulk in this thread apart from you.

#27 Posted by Pokergeist (22302 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

And Pre-52 Bane lost to street level characters with less skill and lower stats than Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap wins.

That too. I also did not realize Bane was a total brick in all sense of the word in New 52. Shame.

@entropy_aegis:

Anyway it is clear your going with Bane and dislike Cap for the fan wanking. At least one person in this thread thinks Bane wins.

#28 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01 said:

@entropy_aegis: I haven't seen anyone mention Hulk in this thread apart from you.

Then you need to get your eyes checked,there are 2 people who brought up Hulk here.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

And Pre-52 Bane lost to street level characters with less skill and lower stats than Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap wins.

Yeah lets just ignore the fact that Pre-52 Bane spent the majority of his existence without venom and was a peak human,and which character less skilled than Ult Cap beat Bane may I ask? Batman comes to mind pretty sure he's more skilled,Azrael is another also more skilled(with stats on the same level as Ult Cap when he faced Bane who BTW was not on venom).

Pre-52 Bane was peak human/slightly superhuman him losing to characters with inferior physical stats to Ult Cap means nothing here in this thread where he DOES have superhuman stats,not to mention this isn't true in the slightest,unless you think Ult Cap>Cheetah? or Azbats the same guy who took on the Batfamily and the Outsiders?

#29 Posted by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

And Pre-52 Bane lost to street level characters with less skill and lower stats than Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap wins.

That too. I also did not realize Bane was a total brick in all sense of the word in New 52. Shame.

@entropy_aegis:

Anyway it is clear your going with Bane and dislike Cap for the fan wanking. At least one person in this thread thinks Bane wins.

I'm going with the fact that Bane is more skilled based on Cap's lackluster performance against his own villains whose greatest claim to fame was beating on Cap.I'm also going with the fact that there in no proof either Nuke or Red Skull hold a physical advantage over Bane.

#30 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis said:

I'm going with the fact that Bane is more skilled based on Cap's lackluster performance against his own villains whose greatest claim to fame was beating on Cap.

Don't judge fights like that.

You say Captain America failed, because he lost to someone, who barely had feats, but at the same time Captain America defeated more powerful opponents, who had more feats than the guys he lost to.
Captain America losing to Red Skull is not a low showing for him, but a high showing for Red Skull.
And it's not like Captain America didn't come back in few of the instances you're talking about.

I know that it's tempting to support your favorite character and "walk over corpses" to get your will through, but try to make actual points for Bane, rather than downgrading his opponents, since with such an approach you will piss off the fans of that said character and that's what you're getting here in this thread.

You're basically making life harder for yourself.

On topic:

I would argue that 616 Captain America would give Bane a good fight thanks to the Vibranium shield and it's impact absorbing capabilities. If Captain America fights smart and avoids direct confrontation but hits and runs, the fight would last for quite a while, but ultimately I can see Bane coming out on top.
But when facing Ultimate Captain America, who is stronger and more ruthless? I can see him defeating Bane and also then ... the fight would last for a while.

#31 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:
@entropy_aegis said:

I'm going with the fact that Bane is more skilled based on Cap's lackluster performance against his own villains whose greatest claim to fame was beating on Cap.

Don't judge fights like that.

You say Captain America failed, because he lost to someone, who barely had feats, but at the same time Captain America defeated more powerful opponents, who had more feats then the guys he lost to.

Captain America losing to Red Skull is not a low showing for him, but a high showing for Red Skull.

And it's not like Captain America didn't come back in few of the instances you're talking about.

I know that it's tempting to support your favorite character and "walk over corpses" to get your will through, but try to make actual points for Bane, rather than downgrading his opponents, since with such an approach you will piss off the fans of that said character and that's what you're getting here in this thread.

You're basically making life harder for yourself.

On topic:

I would argue that 616 Captain America would give Bane a good fight thanks to the Vibranium shield and it's impact absorbing capabilities. If Captain America fights smart and avoids direct confrontation but hits and runs, the fight would last for quite a while, but ultimately I can see Bane coming out on top.

But when facing Ultimate Captain America, who is stronger and more ruthless? I can see him defeating Bane and also then ... the fight would last for a while.

How exactly am I downgrading Cap? I'm merely providing instances where he lost against other street level characters who also happen to be a part of his own rogues gallery.It's easy to bring up showings of Cap going up against random super humans in team books,ofcourse he does,every character in that position does,Bane himself did when he was a member of the Secret Six but you dont see me saying that Bane wins cause he destroyed demons,black lanterns,dinosaurs etc.

Red Skull beating Cap is indeed a good showing for Skull,that's what I'm saying,but the Skull himself hasn't shown feats of skill or physicality that put him above Bane,so if he can beat Cap why cant Bane?

#32 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Skull beating Cap is indeed a good showing for Skull,that's what I'm saying,but the Skull himself hasn't shown feats of skill or physicality that put him above Bane,so if he can beat Cap why cant Bane?

Because you're ignoring Captain America's high showings and only focusing on a low showing, while he in fact had much better showings.
If you want to make a point, then come up with high showings for Bane and try to make points why Captain America would not be able to do the same thing. That's what a fair approach would be.

#33 Posted by Shawnbaby (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

@rudebomberboy01 said:

@entropy_aegis: I haven't seen anyone mention Hulk in this thread apart from you.

Then you need to get your eyes checked,there are 2 people who brought up Hulk here.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@cadencev2: Yes it does,it shows Cap is a mediocre fighter seeing as Skull and Nuke had no feats other than beating up Cap and they didn't just beat him they outright humiliated him,Nuke did it twice. Neither Nuke nor Skull are on the same level as the Hulk so lets stop pretending that Cap is as well.

Cap lost to a bunch of street level characters with superhuman physicals no greater than Bane and less skill,Bane wins.

And Pre-52 Bane lost to street level characters with less skill and lower stats than Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap wins.

Yeah lets just ignore the fact that Pre-52 Bane spent the majority of his existence without venom and was a peak human,and which character less skilled than Ult Cap beat Bane may I ask? Batman comes to mind pretty sure he's more skilled,Azrael is another also more skilled(with stats on the same level as Ult Cap when he faced Bane who BTW was not on venom).

Pre-52 Bane was peak human/slightly superhuman him losing to characters with inferior physical stats to Ult Cap means nothing here in this thread where he DOES have superhuman stats,not to mention this isn't true in the slightest,unless you think Ult Cap>Cheetah? or Azbats the same guy who took on the Batfamily and the Outsiders?

It's no worse than you completely ignoring every success Ultimate Cap has had. I'm just matching you lowball for lowball...

#34 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:
@entropy_aegis said:

Red Skull beating Cap is indeed a good showing for Skull,that's what I'm saying,but the Skull himself hasn't shown feats of skill or physicality that put him above Bane,so if he can beat Cap why cant Bane?

Because you're ignoring Captain America's high showings and only focusing on a low showing, while he in fact had much better showings.

If you want to make a point, then come up with high showings for Bane and try to make points why Captain America would not be able to do the same thing. That's what a fair approach would be.

They are not low showings/bad showings/PIS or incidents where Cap was not written well,they happened in books where Cap was the lead star and was fighting his own villains.They seem far more reflective of Cap's actual abilities than his retarded Avengers feats.I do the same for Batman when I use him,I stick to Batman fights in his own books what I dont do is bring up Wonder Woman, Teen Titans or Superman

#35 Edited by Enzeru (2954 posts) - - Show Bio

They are not low showings/bad showings/PIS or incidents where Cap was not written well,they happened in books where Cap was the lead star and was fighting his own villains.They seem far more reflective of Cap's actual abilities than his retarded Avengers feats.I do the same for Batman when I use him,I stick to Batman fights in his own books with his own villains instead of dragging Despero or Superman in to the mix.


Your approach is not really good in my opinion.

Imagine you would have Ultimate Red Skull in a fight versus Bane. Red Skull's feats are incredibly limited and one would try to make arguments for him by saying that he defeated Captain America, who held his own against more powerful opponents. That's what happens, when you discuss a character with not that many feats and it's the only way to go about it, otherwise the amount of feats a character has wins the fight for him and that's just really unfair, since there are characters, who were around for 40 years and also some, who were around for 10 years, but if the 10 year old characters have few feats to back their power level up, why not using them?

You could be thinking that what I'm saying now doesn't have to do much with Captain America and Bane and you're right, but these two characters still had a lot of representation. Bane was around for more years, but Ultimate Captain America most likely had more exposure and they both have a lot of good feats.
But you refuse to take a look at these good feats and argue them - instead you pick two low showings of Captain America, while he has so much more to back up, no matter where it took place (because in the end of the day Captain America simply had more exposure in team books).

If you want to discuss the fight, then do pick Bane's best feats and bring them up. If someone can negate them with Captain America's showings, good for them ... but continuing to say that Bane wins, because Captain America lost to Red Skull is ... just a bad approach.
It's like I would go around and say that Firelord loses every single battle, because he got his ass whooped by Spider-Man. Okay, that can be considered as PIS, but there are many other moments in comics, where someone loses, even though he shouldn't have lost in the first place and judging by the high end feats the same applies for Red Skull, except if Red Skull is simply more powerful than Captain America, which then could mean that he would have been able to replicate Cap's feats and even more and that's something someone might say, who would argue for Red Skull.

Damn, so much text for only an opinion -___- Sorry.
I'm done here in this thread, since I don't even care about the two characters D: Let me find a Sentry thread to share my 2 cents!

#36 Posted by Shawnbaby (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:
@entropy_aegis said:

Red Skull beating Cap is indeed a good showing for Skull,that's what I'm saying,but the Skull himself hasn't shown feats of skill or physicality that put him above Bane,so if he can beat Cap why cant Bane?

Because you're ignoring Captain America's high showings and only focusing on a low showing, while he in fact had much better showings.

If you want to make a point, then come up with high showings for Bane and try to make points why Captain America would not be able to do the same thing. That's what a fair approach would be.

They are not low showings/bad showings/PIS or incidents where Cap was not written well,they happened in books where Cap was the lead star and was fighting his own villains.They seem far more reflective of Cap's actual abilities than his retarded Avengers feats.I do the same for Batman when I use him,I stick to Batman fights in his own books what I dont do is bring up Wonder Woman, Teen Titans or Superman

That argument doesn't hold water at all. Cap was appearing in the Ultimates long before he got a solo series. The guy that created the character of Ultimate Cap wrote a lot of those "retarded avengers feats" you are so dismissive of...he seemed to believe that they were pretty well reflective of Cap's actual abilities.

#37 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: Firelord and Spider-Man are in an entirely different class though,Cap is a street level character and so is Red Skull,likewise Skull is trained and has the same physicals due to being Cap's son,might be superior but only slightly,it should also be taken in to account that he was far older than Cap seeing as he didn't spend most of his life on ice,so basically Cap got beaten by a guy in his 60's(and I saw absolutely no evidence that the serum prevents you from aging,slowly yes but not outright).

#38 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: I'm low balling how exactly? I brought up both Nuke and Red Skull because the similarities between them and Bane in terms of abilities.

H2H combat, check

Superhuman stats, check

Enhanced mind,check

Combat tactics,check

What does either of them have that Bane doesn't may I ask? The truth here is that Cap's abilities are grossly exaggerated.

I'll give you(not necessarily you shawnbaby )3 options.

1) Accept that Cap is a street level character whose showings against War Machine,Giant Man and Hulk are PIS.

2) Or acknowledge that Hulk,Giant Man etc are unimpressive and any decent street level character could have taken them down in the same circumstances.

Dont try to swing it both ways,failure to do so brings up option C

3) I'll have no problem opening up my own Batman PIS closet that completely wipes the floor with Cap's "high" showings and use them in Bane's favor via ABC logic.

#39 Posted by Pipxeroth (496 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#40 Posted by Shawnbaby (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis:

Option 4) Accept that all characters have high and low end showings and that we don't judge the fights solely off of the low end showings like you are doing right now.

Go ahead, open up your Batman PIS closet and throw in ABC logic....ABC logic gets no traction at all in the Battle Forum. All you will accomplish is to reveal exactly how biased you are.

#41 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis:

Option 4) Accept that all characters have high and low end showings and that we don't judge the fights solely off of the low end showings like you are doing right now.

Go ahead, open up your Batman PIS closet and throw in ABC logic....ABC logic gets no traction at all in the Battle Forum. All you will accomplish is to reveal exactly how biased you are.

So you want to me to acknowledge PIS? you want to pretend that Cap can fight Hulk and War Machine? that he's class 50 or something? if that's the case might as well wrap up this battle because then it's spite. High end showings and PIS are two completely different things,if Cap fighting Giant Man is a legit "high" showing then so is Batman beating Wonder Woman with a kick.

Captain America's supposed low showings have been against his own villains with street level skill.When Batman fights Bane or Lady Shiva I guess it's a low showing huh.

#42 Posted by Saren (24301 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, this thread wound up exactly like every Ultimate Cap thread does.

Moderator
#43 Posted by Alexander505 (2132 posts) - - Show Bio

Usual story. Some Marvel readers don't accept that a DC guy can defeat a Marvel guy.

#44 Posted by Wolverine08 (26340 posts) - - Show Bio

Usual story. Some Marvel readers don't accept that a DC guy can defeat a Marvel guy.

That's quite foolish of you to say. There DC readers that can't accept that a Marvel guy can defeat a DC guy.

#45 Edited by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by Wolverine08 (26340 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis:

Well, it is a battle with a DC and Marvel characters, giving people a chance to fall back on their company bias. Lol.

#47 Edited by Pokergeist (22302 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru: Firelord and Spider-Man are in an entirely different class though,Cap is a street level character and so is Red Skull,likewise Skull is trained and has the same physicals due to being Cap's son,might be superior but only slightly,it should also be taken in to account that he was far older than Cap seeing as he didn't spend most of his life on ice,so basically Cap got beaten by a guy in his 60's(and I saw absolutely no evidence that the serum prevents you from aging,slowly yes but not outright).

Sigh...

First off this was a random fight were Red Skull knew all about Cap (Performance, stats) yet Cap knew nothing of Red Skull. So already in a real world fight Red Skull has a advantage.

Red Skull was train since he was a baby to a grown adult to be Caps Superior in every way by the same government who train Cap in his short time of WW2! On top of this Caps kids was genetically superior in every stat! Then add to this Red Skull been honing his skill and experience of all things Terrorism for 60 years!

Your argument is lame. Of course Cap lost.

@entropy_aegis:

Option 4) Accept that all characters have high and low end showings and that we don't judge the fights solely off of the low end showings like you are doing right now.

Go ahead, open up your Batman PIS closet and throw in ABC logic....ABC logic gets no traction at all in the Battle Forum. All you will accomplish is to reveal exactly how biased you are.

There is nothing Low Showing about Red Skull. It was a accurate showing of a guy who beat Cap thanks to many variables. In a random fight, Red Skull would Skull**** Bane as well.

#48 Posted by entropy_aegis (13564 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@enzeru: Firelord and Spider-Man are in an entirely different class though,Cap is a street level character and so is Red Skull,likewise Skull is trained and has the same physicals due to being Cap's son,might be superior but only slightly,it should also be taken in to account that he was far older than Cap seeing as he didn't spend most of his life on ice,so basically Cap got beaten by a guy in his 60's(and I saw absolutely no evidence that the serum prevents you from aging,slowly yes but not outright).

Sigh...

First off this was a random fight were Red Skull knew all about Cap (Performance, stats) yet Cap knew nothing of Red Skull. So already in a real world fight Red Skull has a advantage.

Red Skull was train since he was a baby to a grown adult to be Caps Superior in every way by the same government who train Cap in his short time of WW2! On top of this Caps kids was genetically superior in every stat! Then add to this Red Skull been honing his skill and experience of all things Terrorism for 60 years!

Your argument is lame. Of course Cap lost.

@shawnbaby said:

@entropy_aegis:

Option 4) Accept that all characters have high and low end showings and that we don't judge the fights solely off of the low end showings like you are doing right now.

Go ahead, open up your Batman PIS closet and throw in ABC logic....ABC logic gets no traction at all in the Battle Forum. All you will accomplish is to reveal exactly how biased you are.

There is nothing Low Showing about Red Skull. It was a accurate showing of a guy who beat Cap thanks to many variables. In a random fight, Red Skull would Skull**** Bane as well.

No evidence to prove it,and fighting for 60 years isn't so impressive when centuries old fighters have lost to those with a lot less experience.For Skull it's even less impressive because he's a superhuman mad man killing normal humans,call me when he beat someone in those 60 years who was worth a damn. The Skull did indeed study Cap but here's one thing,nothing in that fight indicates Skull doing anything special,he didn't use special moves or anything of that sort he outright kicked his ass.

Now show me scans of Skull being stronger and more skilled than Bane,ofcourse it's an exercise in futility seeing as he's dead but good luck anyway.

#49 Edited by SlimJ87D (8906 posts) - - Show Bio

Here we go again with the Cap America wankery,all those people saying Hulk and whatnot may I remind you that this Cap got his ass beaten by Nuke and Red Skull? gotta love how Cap fans ignore his feats against his own villains and bring up Hulk.

Bane wins,their physicals might be comparable but if we're allowed to use Pre Flashpoint Bane feats than Bane is easily the superior fighter,unlike Ult Cap he didn't get his ass beat by every skilled fighter he went up against.

First off, Nuke turned out to have a lot of cybernetics and super soldier treatment making him a super soldier android, his stats were ABOVE that of Ultimate Captain Americas in addition to being highly skilled himself. This guy has been fighting and alive since the late 1960s so he has about 40 years plus fighting experience. Ultimate Captain America was able to take multiple strikes from this guy while holding dual hammers. And Steve ended up beating him.

Second, again Ultimate Red Skull has been trained to kill since he was born, he was literally handed over to the government at birth because he had the super soldier serum. This guy was sprinting faster than people on motorcycles. He's been trained to be a government guy since the 1950s, so he had about 60 years of experience on top of his old man plus according to test he was physically superior to his old man in every way. And he managed to get the best on Steve due to the element of surprise, Steve wasn't expecting the helicopter pilot to be his physical superior. He just took out a bunch of canon fodder and probably expected the same from the pilot, plus the Red Skull had whacked him in the face with a metal pipe multiple times.

I don't see how your use of this evidence proves that Ultimate Captain America is not proficient as Bane in H2H. Ultimate Captain America has lived a normal life of probably around 30 years and maybe 12 of those years were of him fighting. You're comparing him to 2 guys that physically outclass him, are around twice his age with probably 3 times more years of fighting clocked in. And again, he beat Ultimate Nuke.

What evidence do you have to show that their Bane is his physical Superior? Is he as fast, strong and durable as Captain America? Does he possess a healing factor like Captain America? Last time I checked, Bane has a few tubes sticking out of his head that I'm sure Ultimate Captain America wouldn't have a problem disconnecting while I highly doubt Bane is going to have something that negates Ultimate Captain America's Super Soldier Serum that is organically made in his own body.

#50 Posted by Pokergeist (22302 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I do not need to show scans of Skull being stronger, we know he is naturally stronger than Cap and we all know Cap is stronger than Bane. So statement here helps Red Skull case.

I get what your trying to accomplish, its not possible when we have proof of how awesome Skull was thanks to the statements in the Comics. Thankfully many people see through your low balling as well.

Anyway like I said your whole argument is base on one loss really, which is a sad showing of what debate you really have against Cap.