#1 Edited by _slim_ (13075 posts) - - Show Bio

- Bane (Pre-52)

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                    vs.
 
 
- Elektra 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
- Location:
- Standard Dojo.
- Start 10 feet apart.
 
- Rules:
- In character.
- Random encounter.
- Standard elimination rules apply.
- No equipment.
- Strictly h2h.
- Pre-52 version of Bane.
#2 Posted by _slim_ (13075 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#3 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane.

Moderator
#4 Posted by beatboks1 (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Bane.

This

#5 Posted by goodguys (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane would win.

#6 Posted by Nefarious (19675 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane might break her back.

#7 Posted by TDK_1997 (14683 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane.

Online
#8 Posted by KMART4455 (1290 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by Alexander505 (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane.

#10 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio

Elektra.

Moderator
#11 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3820 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Elektra.
#12 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: @Evil Incarnate: Reasoning?

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#13 Posted by Alexander505 (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Elektra.

LOL

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Vance Astro said:

Elektra.

LOL

#14 Posted by k4tzm4n (40131 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Bane.

This sums it up nicely.

Staff Online
#15 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Elektra.
#16 Edited by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll give my thoughts on the topic: Elektra had two fights against Kuroyama, a guy who is (from a stats perspective) almost identical to Bane in the sense that he's sporting a hefty physical advantage while still not superhuman in any sense, and decently skilled as well, and she lost both times. That to me suggests that Bane's physical advantage gives him the win here.

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#17 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@Vance Astro: @Evil Incarnate: Reasoning?

I was just trying to be different LOL.
Moderator
#18 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

I'll give my thoughts on the topic: Elektra had two fights against Kuroyama, a guy who is (from a stats perspective) almost identical to Bane in the sense that he's sporting a hefty physical advantage while still not superhuman in any sense, and decently skilled as well, and she lost both times. That to me suggests that Bane's physical advantage gives him the win here.

She is alot faster than Bane, also she has showed she knows how to use pressure points very well, which sort of takes away Bane's durability advantage. Does Bane have an answer for pressure points?

@korrindarz said:

Black Widow also stalemated her while injured, and Hercules beat her in a sword fight. Daredevil also beat her ass in 2 hits making her run away. She's a mediocre fighter and Bane will end up snapping her neck easily.

Completely untrue. Hercules has had thousands of years of combat experience, of course he can defeat a street leveler in a sword fight. Black Widow is an excellent fighter herself, and Elektra has better feats than that.

Bane is not nearly fast enough to break her neck, who do you think you're kidding?

#19 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3820 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@Vance Astro: @Evil Incarnate: Reasoning?

Cause I said so?

#20 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody remember when Elektra took 3 hits from a colossus-super skrull without fainting? Bane's physical advantage won't help him as much as some people are getting at.

#21 Posted by k4tzm4n (40131 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

Black Widow is an excellent fighter herself

Compared to who? I get that she's supposed to be highly skilled and dangerous, but her track record against credible combatants has been anything but stellar.

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#22 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@ChaosBlazer said:

 Hercules has had thousands of years of combat experience, of course he can defeat a street leveler in a sword fight. 

To be honest I think this showing for Herc is PIS. Experience and quality of training is two different things. Hercules has gone over 30 years with no credible skill feats, why he would all of a sudden be better than Elektra with a weapon she uses regularly is beyond me.
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#23 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

@CitizenBane said:

I'll give my thoughts on the topic: Elektra had two fights against Kuroyama, a guy who is (from a stats perspective) almost identical to Bane in the sense that he's sporting a hefty physical advantage while still not superhuman in any sense, and decently skilled as well, and she lost both times. That to me suggests that Bane's physical advantage gives him the win here.

She is alot faster than Bane, also she has showed she knows how to use pressure points very well, which sort of takes away Bane's durability advantage. Does Bane have an answer for pressure points?

Nightwing and Batman are both faster than her and Bane's never had a problem connecting with either one of them. Why would Elektra be an issue? And when has Elektra used pressure points that much without her sais?

@ChaosBlazer said:

Anybody remember when Elektra took 3 hits from a colossus-super skrull without fainting? Bane's physical advantage won't help him as much as some people are getting at.

Anyone remember the time she was dominated three times by Bullseye? The time she was dominated twice by Kuroyama? The time she was dominated twice by Gorgon? None of whom have the striking power of Colossus? If we're bringing up PIS in place of an argument then Bane tangled with Cheetah without fainting, therefore Elektra cannot hurt him.

Moderator
#24 Posted by BarelyAverage (942 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane wins. Bane can tag Batman and other people that are possibly faster than batman due to a smaller stature such as Nightwing. He would have no problem tagging her even though she is faster. As to pressure points? She has to get in close, precise range to connect. Would she want to risk getting grabbed by Bane? It would be over or she would exhaust tire herself trying to escape. It would only be a matter of time before Bane won.

#25 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@ChaosBlazer said:

@CitizenBane said:

I'll give my thoughts on the topic: Elektra had two fights against Kuroyama, a guy who is (from a stats perspective) almost identical to Bane in the sense that he's sporting a hefty physical advantage while still not superhuman in any sense, and decently skilled as well, and she lost both times. That to me suggests that Bane's physical advantage gives him the win here.

She is alot faster than Bane, also she has showed she knows how to use pressure points very well, which sort of takes away Bane's durability advantage. Does Bane have an answer for pressure points?

Nightwing and Batman are both faster than her and Bane's never had a problem connecting with either one of them. Why would Elektra be an issue? And when has Elektra used pressure points that much without her sais?

@ChaosBlazer said:

Anybody remember when Elektra took 3 hits from a colossus-super skrull without fainting? Bane's physical advantage won't help him as much as some people are getting at.

Anyone remember the time she was dominated three times by Bullseye? The time she was dominated twice by Kuroyama? The time she was dominated twice by Gorgon? None of whom have the striking power of Colossus? If we're bringing up PIS in place of an argument then Bane tangled with Cheetah without fainting, therefore Elektra cannot hurt him.

Have to disagree about the first point. Elektra is just as fast as either of them. They all have good gunfire-dodging feats.

here is 2 scans of her using pressure points without sais, the second one might not really be a pressure point but Im sure the first one is.

PIS argument was PIS, sorry :/

But she is definitely durable enough to tank several of Bane's hits.

@BarelyAverage said:

Bane wins. Bane can tag Batman and other people that are possibly faster than batman due to a smaller stature such as Nightwing. He would have no problem tagging her even though she is faster. As to pressure points? She has to get in close, precise range to connect. Would she want to risk getting grabbed by Bane? It would be over or she would exhaust tire herself trying to escape. It would only be a matter of time before Bane won.

You make it sound like Bane will just grab Elektra, put her over his head and break her. And Bane getting in close to her is just as dangerous as Elektra getting in close to him. Both of these guys are smart strategists, they aren't going to go rushing into this fight like that.

And I doubt Elektra would tire herself trying to escape. Elektra is a better fighter than Bane, all he has is physical superiority, and where has that gotten him against more skilled opponents like Batman? Elektra sure isnt Bats but I dont think she would go down as easily as you make it out to be.

#26 Posted by TifaLockhart (14044 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman's fights with Bane (up to a point at least, I haven't followed Bane in awhile) have been inconclusive.

Bane absolutely demolished Nightwing in H2H though. He's not just some big dumb strong guy.

#27 Posted by mathematicscore (167 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane's physical prowess and size combined with his only slightly (arguably) lower skill give him the edge here. Bane is beastly; Elektra has proven to often be all to human.

#28 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

Bane might break her back.
#29 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

@CitizenBane said:

@ChaosBlazer said:

@CitizenBane said:

I'll give my thoughts on the topic: Elektra had two fights against Kuroyama, a guy who is (from a stats perspective) almost identical to Bane in the sense that he's sporting a hefty physical advantage while still not superhuman in any sense, and decently skilled as well, and she lost both times. That to me suggests that Bane's physical advantage gives him the win here.

She is alot faster than Bane, also she has showed she knows how to use pressure points very well, which sort of takes away Bane's durability advantage. Does Bane have an answer for pressure points?

Nightwing and Batman are both faster than her and Bane's never had a problem connecting with either one of them. Why would Elektra be an issue? And when has Elektra used pressure points that much without her sais?

@ChaosBlazer said:

Anybody remember when Elektra took 3 hits from a colossus-super skrull without fainting? Bane's physical advantage won't help him as much as some people are getting at.

Anyone remember the time she was dominated three times by Bullseye? The time she was dominated twice by Kuroyama? The time she was dominated twice by Gorgon? None of whom have the striking power of Colossus? If we're bringing up PIS in place of an argument then Bane tangled with Cheetah without fainting, therefore Elektra cannot hurt him.

Have to disagree about the first point. Elektra is just as fast as either of them. They all have good gunfire-dodging feats.

here is 2 scans of her using pressure points without sais, the second one might not really be a pressure point but Im sure the first one is.

PIS argument was PIS, sorry :/

But she is definitely durable enough to tank several of Bane's hits.

@BarelyAverage said:

Bane wins. Bane can tag Batman and other people that are possibly faster than batman due to a smaller stature such as Nightwing. He would have no problem tagging her even though she is faster. As to pressure points? She has to get in close, precise range to connect. Would she want to risk getting grabbed by Bane? It would be over or she would exhaust tire herself trying to escape. It would only be a matter of time before Bane won.

You make it sound like Bane will just grab Elektra, put her over his head and break her. And Bane getting in close to her is just as dangerous as Elektra getting in close to him. Both of these guys are smart strategists, they aren't going to go rushing into this fight like that.

And I doubt Elektra would tire herself trying to escape. Elektra is a better fighter than Bane, all he has is physical superiority, and where has that gotten him against more skilled opponents like Batman? Elektra sure isnt Bats but I dont think she would go down as easily as you make it out to be.

Any street leveler has gunfire-dodging feats. Bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics. Freaking Damian Wayne has gunfire-dodging feats. Nightwing's speed and agility in combat are simply more impressive than Elektra's demonstrations of the same. Bane has never had a problem tagging him.

Using pressure points against fodder is not really impressive. What skilled opponents has she used them against? She fought Bullseye four times and didn't pressure-point him there. She's fought Daredevil and Silver Samurai and other skilled fighters without pulling out any pressure point tricks. The only instance I can remember would be against Wolverine in EOTS, and that was with sais and an already immobile Logan. You say she's durable enough to tank several of his hits but the only proof you've provided for that is one PIS instance.

Elektra is not a better fighter than Bane. She has not done anything to support that notion. From a technical perspective both Batman and Nightwing are more skilled than Bane, and yet Bane has easily defeated Nightwing twice, in less than a page both times, and has fought Batman twice; losing once in Legacy after a long fight, and one no-result fight in No Man's Land. Both times his performance against Batman was better than Elektra's would be in the same situation.

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#30 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Bane.

#31 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Any street leveler has gunfire-dodging feats. Bullets are the biggest jobbers in comics. Freaking Damian Wayne has gunfire-dodging feats. Nightwing's speed and agility in combat are simply more impressive than Elektra's demonstrations of the same. Bane has never had a problem tagging him.

Using pressure points against fodder is not really impressive. What skilled opponents has she used them against? She fought Bullseye four times and didn't pressure-point him there. She's fought Daredevil and Silver Samurai and other skilled fighters without pulling out any pressure point tricks. The only instance I can remember would be against Wolverine in EOTS, and that was with sais and an already immobile Logan. You say she's durable enough to tank several of his hits but the only proof you've provided for that is one PIS instance.

Elektra is not a better fighter than Bane. She has not done anything to support that notion. From a technical perspective both Batman and Nightwing are more skilled than Bane, and yet Bane has easily defeated Nightwing twice, in less than a page both times, and has fought Batman twice; losing once in Legacy after a long fight, and one no-result fight in No Man's Land. Both times his performance against Batman was better than Elektra's would be in the same situation.

I guess the first part is correct, most street levelers with superhuman agility have dodged bullets in the past. Of course some people have better feats than others, like dodging a bullet from a skilled marksman or after the bullet has been shot, looking for any scans for Elektra on that point.

Why does it matter if they are skilled or not? They still have pressure points, even if they are superhumanly durable. Of course it will be harder for Elektra to get close to Bane like that, but eventually she will be able to, she will use a pressure point, and Bane will fall. Skills beat strength any day. Batman should be able to defeat Bane pretty easily (pre 52), Nightwing maybe not, but I'd say Elektra can take Nightwing, more skilled, better fighting feats. (Beating Wolverine and Daredevil skrulls with optic blasts and Mr Fantastic's powers, defeating Daredevil on her own a few times, kicking the Avenger's asses when she was working for the Hand.)

Here's a durability feat for Elektra, she gets slammed into a bus by Luke Cage and is unhurt. Also her fight with Gorgon shows her durability, Gorgon is superpowered and she still tanks several of his hits before going down. Gorgon was beating down Wolverine, gives one a good idea of his strength and power he puts into his hits.

Can you show any feats for Bane that he is a better H2H fighter than Elektra? I still think Elektra is far more skilled and fast enough to get the drop on Bane, then disable him with a pressure point.

#32 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

I guess the first part is correct, most street levelers with superhuman agility have dodged bullets in the past. Of course some people have better feats than others, like dodging a bullet from a skilled marksman or after the bullet has been shot, looking for any scans for Elektra on that point.

I really do not consider bullet-dodging to be a remotely impressive feat for most street-levelers unless there's some Cassandra Cain shenanigans going on where a character dodges a bullet after it's already been fired and crossed half the distance between gun and target. In that fight with the Skrulls Elektra was tagged repeatedly by optic blasts, Nightwing has easily avoided characters with Superman's heat vision.

He's dodged bolts from Starfire and blocked hits from a speedster like Captain Boomerang:

I have a host of agility feats for Nightwing that beat anything Elektra's ever done. And Bane had no trouble landing hits on him and defeating him both times they fought.

Accordingly, I don't see any agility advantage Elektra may possess being significant enough to make a real difference.

Why does it matter if they are skilled or not? They still have pressure points, even if they are superhumanly durable. Of course it will be harder for Elektra to get close to Bane like that, but eventually she will be able to, she will use a pressure point, and Bane will fall. Skills beat strength any day.

Because characters typically do certain things against fodder that they rarely replicate against named opponents. Elektra's silent scream for example, has been used almost exclusively against fodder. When she fights anyone worth a damn like Taskmaster or Silver Samurai or Bullseye, she never thinks to use the scream. Bane has torn off limbs and heads from fodder opponents several times, he's still not likely to do so against Elektra since he never thought to use such a tactic against people like Batman, Nightwing, Azrael, etc.

Batman should be able to defeat Bane pretty easily (pre 52)

Where is this coming from? Batman has fought Bane twice apart from the unfair Knightfall fight. What did you see in the two fights that suggests Batman would make short work of Bane?

but I'd say Elektra can take Nightwing, more skilled, better fighting feats.

She's not more skilled and her feats aren't better.

Beating Wolverine and Daredevil skrulls with optic blasts and Mr Fantastic's powers,

Give me a break. Setting aside the fact that she struggled to defeat those Skrulls and the fight ended with another Skrull beating her to a bloody heap on the ground, it was pretty obvious that neither of those Skrulls had powers that matched those of the original holders. The Wolverine/Reed Skrull died when she stabbed him in the face, for god's sake. Neither Logan nor Reed would even flinch at the prospect of getting a sai in the face from Elektra. The Daredevil Skrull teleported right next to her and just stood still for some reason while she gathered herself and then stabbed him in the gut. That's CIS more than anything else considering he was easily wrecking her prior to that.

defeating Daredevil on her own a few times

Issues?

kicking the Avenger's asses when she was working for the Hand.

That was not Elektra. That was Siri.

Here's a durability feat for Elektra, she gets slammed into a bus by Luke Cage and is unhurt.

Who says Luke was even trying to hurt her? In the issue right before that scan, Bullseye was about to kill Elektra again before Daredevil showed up. Lester can hurt her but Luke Cage can't?

Also her fight with Gorgon shows her durability, Gorgon is superpowered and she still tanks several of his hits before going down.

It really doesn't. In the first fight Gorgon was toying with her. She couldn't land even a single hit on him and after he was done with his monologue about how wonderful HYDRA is, he beat her to death with his bare hands. In their second fight, Elektra had the advantages of surprise, prep, S.H.I.E.L.D tech and Wolverine backing her up, and yet Gorgon still one-shotted her by picking up a wooden rod and smashing her head with it.

Gorgon was beating down Wolverine, gives one a good idea of his strength and power he puts into his hits.

Gorgon beating down Wolverine has absolutely nothing to do with his strength. Shishido is a two-tonner. He is not capable of beating down Wolverine with his bare hands. He beat down Wolverine because he has a magic god-killing sword that renders Logan's durability and healing useless.

Can you show any feats for Bane that he is a better H2H fighter than Elektra? I still think Elektra is far more skilled and fast enough to get the drop on Bane, then disable him with a pressure point.

I haven't seen any feats from Elektra that show she's a better H2H fighter than even Nightwing. She's not more skilled, she's not fast enough for it to really matter, and the pressure point is about as likely to happen as him tearing off her arm with one stroke.

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#33 Edited by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@ChaosBlazer said:

I guess the first part is correct, most street levelers with superhuman agility have dodged bullets in the past. Of course some people have better feats than others, like dodging a bullet from a skilled marksman or after the bullet has been shot, looking for any scans for Elektra on that point.

I really do not consider bullet-dodging to be a remotely impressive feat for most street-levelers unless there's some Cassandra Cain shenanigans going on where a character dodges a bullet after it's already been fired and crossed half the distance between gun and target. In that fight with the Skrulls Elektra was tagged repeatedly by optic blasts, Nightwing has easily avoided characters with Superman's heat vision.

He's dodged bolts from Starfire and blocked hits from a speedster like Captain Boomerang:

I have a host of agility feats for Nightwing that beat anything Elektra's ever done. And Bane had no trouble landing hits on him and defeating him both times they fought.

Accordingly, I don't see any agility advantage Elektra may possess being significant enough to make a real difference.

Why does it matter if they are skilled or not? They still have pressure points, even if they are superhumanly durable. Of course it will be harder for Elektra to get close to Bane like that, but eventually she will be able to, she will use a pressure point, and Bane will fall. Skills beat strength any day.

Because characters typically do certain things against fodder that they rarely replicate against named opponents. Elektra's silent scream for example, has been used almost exclusively against fodder. When she fights anyone worth a damn like Taskmaster or Silver Samurai or Bullseye, she never thinks to use the scream. Bane has torn off limbs and heads from fodder opponents several times, he's still not likely to do so against Elektra since he never thought to use such a tactic against people like Batman, Nightwing, Azrael, etc.

Batman should be able to defeat Bane pretty easily (pre 52)

Where is this coming from? Batman has fought Bane twice apart from the unfair Knightfall fight. What did you see in the two fights that suggests Batman would make short work of Bane?

but I'd say Elektra can t ake Nightwing, more skilled, better fighting feats.

She's not more skilled and her feats aren't better.

Beating Wolverine and Daredevil skrulls with optic blasts and Mr Fantastic's powers,

Give me a break. Setting aside the fact that she struggled to defeat those Skrulls and the fight ended with another Skrull beating her to a bloody heap on the ground, it was pretty obvious that neither of those Skrulls had powers that matched those of the original holders. The Wolverine/Reed Skrull died when she stabbed him in the face, for god's sake. Neither Logan nor Reed would even flinch at the prospect of getting a sai in the face from Elektra. The Daredevil Skrull teleported right next to her and just stood still for some reason while she gathered herself and then stabbed him in the gut. That's CIS more than anything else considering he was easily wrecking her prior to that.

defeating Daredevil on her own a few times

Issues?

kicking the Avenger's asses when she was working for the Hand.

That was not Elektra. That was Siri.

Here's a durability feat for Elektra, she gets slammed into a bus by Luke Cage and is unhurt.

Who says Luke was even trying to hurt her? In the issue right before that scan, Bullseye was about to kill Elektra again before Daredevil showed up. Lester can hurt her but Luke Cage can't?

Also her fight with Gorgon shows her durability, Gorgon is superpowered and she still tanks several of his hits before going down.

It really doesn't. In the first fight Gorgon was toying with her. She couldn't land even a single hit on him and after he was done with his monologue about how wonderful HYDRA is, he beat her to death with his bare hands. In their second fight, Elektra had the advantages of surprise, prep, S.H.I.E.L.D tech and Wolverine backing her up, and yet Gorgon still one-shotted her by picking up a wooden rod and smashing her head with it.

Gorgon was beating down Wolverine, gives one a good idea of his strength and power he puts into his hits.

Gorgon beating down Wolverine has absolutely nothing to do with his strength. Shishido is a two-tonner. He is not capable of beating down Wolverine with his bare hands. He beat down Wolverine because he has a magic god-killing sword that renders Logan's durability and healing useless.

Can you show any feats for Bane that he is a better H2H fighter than Elektra? I still think Elektra is far more skilled and fast enough to get the drop on Bane, then disable him with a pressure point.

I haven't seen any feats from Elektra that show she's a better H2H fighter than even Nightwing. She's not more skilled, she's not fast enough for it to really matter, and the pressure point is about as likely to happen as him tearing off her arm with one stroke.

lol good debate, i give on most of these points about Elektra's durability and Nighting being faster than her.

I dont know the issue but this seems like a fair fight. Elektra subdues Matt even though he is clearly angry and trying to hurt her: (the scans got switched, the first scan is on the right)

She had another fight with Matt but i realized he didnt have his radar sense so it shouldnt count. She got the drop on him and knocked him down, but again without radar sense it doesn't really count.

Also, shouldnt tanking a few optic blasts be a good durability feat for Elektra?

And the reason her scream and pressure points wouldnt be used against non-fodder guys would be for plot reasons. She still has the ability to do those things, against fodder or actual trained heroes/villains with powers. It probably wouldnt be a good story if she defeated everyone in 5 seconds.

Honestly I can see why Nightwing would be considered more skilled than Elektra, however I dont see any reasons Nightwing should lose to Bane. The fight seems PISy to me. In Nightwing's fights with Bane he continually got his fist caught by Bane. All Bane does is catch his fist and then pummel him. If Nightwing is that fast and acrobatic he should have been able to escape Bane's grip and dodge all of his punches. Like, if Bane grabbed his fist he should have done a flip over Bane and smack his feet into his back or something like that.

And if Bane grabs Elektra's fist like that, she can easily use a pressure point on him, like she used against that fodder guy.

I give on the PIS arguments I made about the Skrulls. Everybody knows Skrulls don't really have the full powers of whoever they took them from, they kinda have watered-down versions of the powers.

And again Elektra not using her full powers on important characters seems to be PIS to me. The pressure points should work on characters with street-level durability just as well as they work on fodder. And Elektra has used pressure points extensively with her sais, and a few times without. It should be in character for her to do that.

If there's no PIS involved I think Elektra has a chance at taking a majority over Bane. Pressure points should work most of the time, as long as Elektra gets him in the right position.

#34 Posted by k4tzm4n (40131 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

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#35 Posted by TifaLockhart (14044 posts) - - Show Bio

CitizenBane at work. Nice post.

#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91196 posts) - - Show Bio
@ChaosBlazer said:

And again Elektra not using her full powers on important characters seems to be PIS to me. The pressure points should work on characters with street-level durability just as well as they work on fodder. And Elektra has used pressure points extensively with her sais, and a few times without. It should be in character for her to do that.

I don't think it's PIS so much as it is inconsistent. Elektra's "powers" are rarely shown. The only story where they were used heavily was Elektra: Assassin.
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#37 Posted by Crom-Cruach (8810 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane would crush Elektra like the 2nd rate martial artist she is.

#38 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@ChaosBlazer said:

And again Elektra not using her full powers on important characters seems to be PIS to me. The pressure points should work on characters with street-level durability just as well as they work on fodder. And Elektra has used pressure points extensively with her sais, and a few times without. It should be in character for her to do that.

I don't think it's PIS so much as it is inconsistent. Elektra's "powers" are rarely shown. The only story where they were used heavily was Elektra: Assassin.

yeah inconsistency would be a better term.

#39 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

I dont know the issue but this seems like a fair fight. Elektra subdues Matt even though he is clearly angry and trying to hurt her: (the scans got switched, the first scan is on the right)

That is from Daredevil #78 and I do not see how it proves your point. She manages to restrain him at the end but that doesn't mean he couldn't have simply broken out of the hold; he just had no reason to since there was something else that grabbed his attention (Kingpin leaking the Murdock Papers to the FBI). He also took no real damage from the fight while she had a bloody nose; and he managed to hit her more times than she hit him. Moreover, this fight was written by Bendis and if you compare the performances of both Matt and Elektra within the volume that he wrote, then Daredevil comes out looking much better. In the issue right after this one, Elektra couldn't handle Bullseye, but in the same volume Bendis wrote several fights where Daredevil defeated Bullseye, sometimes even beating him pretty badly. If I remember correctly, Taskmaster swiftly defeated Elektra in her own book by mimicking Daredevil's fighting style. There are comparisons with other opponents they have in common as well; Elektra was stalemated by Black Widow (and let's face it, Natasha is a mediocre combatant for the most part) while Daredevil has defeated Black Widow at least three times that I know of. Based on their overall wealth of feats, Elektra is really not in Daredevil's league.

She had another fight with Matt but i realized he didnt have his radar sense so it shouldnt count. She got the drop on him and knocked him down, but again without radar sense it doesn't really count.

Are you talking about the fight in Daredevil #168? In that scenario, it wasn't just that Matt's senses were compromised. Before Elektra attacked him from behind, he'd been injured badly by a nitroglycerine explosion. He was in no condition to fight in the first place. She also had another fight with Matt in Daredevil #179 where she tricked him into getting his foot caught in a beartrap. That's more of a prep win than anything considering he had the upper hand before that happened. In Daredevil #175 he didn't have his radar sense, she hit him from behind when he didn't know she was there and knocked him down, and then left. It was nothing really remarkable.

Also, shouldnt tanking a few optic blasts be a good durability feat for Elektra?

Considering that the real Cyclops' optic blasts have been shown to inflict damage to people like Wolverine and Spider-Man, I doubt the ones that Elektra was getting hit with were as good as the real deal.

And the reason her scream and pressure points wouldnt be used against non-fodder guys would be for plot reasons. She still has the ability to do those things, against fodder or actual trained heroes/villains with powers. It probably wouldnt be a good story if she defeated everyone in 5 seconds.
And again Elektra not using her full powers on important characters seems to be PIS to me. The pressure points should work on characters with street-level durability just as well as they work on fodder. And Elektra has used pressure points extensively with her sais, and a few times without. It should be in character for her to do that.

I don't think it's PIS, because then you'd have to say that Black Canary not screaming everyone into a wall or Daken not using pheromones on everyone and so on is PIS too. Characters don't pull out every card from their deck in every fight; no character does, I don't see why Elektra would be different.

Honestly I can see why Nightwing would be considered more skilled than Elektra, however I dont see any reasons Nightwing should lose to Bane. The fight seems PISy to me. In Nightwing's fights with Bane he continually got his fist caught by Bane. All Bane does is catch his fist and then pummel him. If Nightwing is that fast and acrobatic he should have been able to escape Bane's grip and dodge all of his punches. Like, if Bane grabbed his fist he should have done a flip over Bane and smack his feet into his back or something like that.

In the first fight Bane catches Nightwing's fist, and then Nightwing does try to get acrobatic, he tried to swing a kick at Bane's face but Bane caught that too. At that point Dick lost the use of an arm and a leg and was dangling in the air. It's not easy to get acrobatic from a position like that, you know? I'm not sure why Nightwing's supposed to be able to escape the grip of someone as strong as Bane either. He's not as strong as Bane by a good margin, his strength isn't even 75% of Batman's level. Why should he have been able to escape the grip of someone much stronger than him?

And if Bane grabs Elektra's fist like that, she can easily use a pressure point on him, like she used against that fodder guy.

Sure, or Bane could just.....rip off the arm.

Or break it in one stroke.

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#40 Posted by entropy_aegis (15195 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL Citizenbane wins.

#41 Posted by throughmyeyez (501 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, given that Bane is trained as well, or perhaps better, than Batman is, and is physically superior than Elektra by a substantial margin, I'd imagine he would win quite decisively. Once he gets a hold of her, it's over. If he could break the bats back with his body armour on, than he could surely do the same to Elektra. Though it would be an interesting battle.

#42 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@throughmyeyez: Bane's not better trained than Batman in any sense.

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#43 Posted by Saren (25612 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@CitizenBane:

+1 for the Zapatas!

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#44 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane

#45 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: ok I concede. :/

Elektra could maybe win 2-3 battles if she used pressure points but I suppose Bane should win the majority

#46 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crom-Cruach said:

Bane would crush Elektra like the 2nd rate martial artist she is.

This sums it up

#47 Posted by norrotmops (3 posts) - - Show Bio

bane via neck snap

#48 Posted by nick_hero22 (6813 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't Elektra given Marvel's Top Tiers good fights before?

#49 Posted by Frozen (12930 posts) - - Show Bio

Bane. He's much stronger and more tactical, as well as having better feats.