Bane (TDKR) vs Kingpin (Netflix Daredevil)

Bane from The Dark Knight Rises film vs Kingpin from the Daredevil Netflix series.

...

-Morals on; combatants are in character

-Random Encounter

-Standard Gear

-Battle takes place in Crime Alley

-Win by death, KO, or incapacitation

I feel like this is a close fight on-paper, but the fact that Fisk could fight Daredevil while Bane could only fight Batman makes me think that Fisk is superior.

Bane, easy. Batman had a contraption on his leg that gave him the ability to crush bricks. Bane dented, then shattered, the graphite helmet Batman had made specifically to withstand strikes from baseball bats. He broke a concrete pillar by punching it. He let Batman wail him in the face without any effect.

So far Bane is incredibly out of the Kingpin's league.

The problem with Fisk's fight against DD was that he was really too emotional. I give him credit though because he would have definitely killed DD if it wasn't for his new armor. Nevertheless, we have not had a chance to see him fight in a focused manner - all of his strength or fighting feats are based off of incensed rage.

I'll give it to Bane for now.

@nimamindtricks: Hasn't every one with Fisk been when he's emotional? The dude is a man child and can't control his emotions when things go wrong.

Bane.

Bane certainly SEEMS more powerful but Fisk fought Daredevil who is > Batman.

I keep seeing this, but Daredevil doesn't do anything that proves that in the show. He doesnt do anything that a typical action movie Martial Artist couldnt do, he's basically Jackie Chan.

Just think about how he responded to the SWAT team raid (while protecting the Russian), vs how Bruce did in Dark Knight.

Right now Batman >> Daredevil.

I don't necessarily agree. Matt was seriously injured when he confronted common thugs, and was almost killed by a single ninja. Batman was beaten a greater number of thugs, far greater number of ninjas, and other enemies with less wounds.

Yes, Matt is more agile. But I'd still argue that Bruce is better skilled with better training. He was capable of fighting hardened prison inmates, thugs, multiple ninjas, SWAT, trained mercenaries, etc. Even without that, Batman's gear alone gives him a tremendous advantage in most situations that Matt lacks - and he still had serious problems with Bane despite the tech and armor.

You can argue that the choreography isn't as good, and that's true. But Nolan's intentions throughout were to show how skilled Batman was when beating four ninjas with ease, and even when confronting Ra's. You have to look past the choreography, in this case, and look at who he is fighting from an in-universe perspective.

Bane

@jedixman: @deaditegonzo: Mmmh, perhaps you're right. Although Daredevil was quite fast, the choreography and what the film-makers are trying to convey is important.

The skill level in DD is so far above the Nolanverse it isn't funny.

@jedixman: there's a huge difference between "The man in the mask" and Daredevil. Before he actually becomes Daredevil, he is just getting started on his craft, by the end of the final episode, he is so far beyond anything we had seen up to that point.

The biggest struggle we had seen The Man in the Mask have was against Nobu who in my opinion would stomp Bane or Batman in similar fashion. However by the end of the final episode, I'm thinking Daredevil beats Nobu quite handily if they fought again.

I would agree that Batman > The Man in the Mask but Daredevil > Batman IMO.

@cregan_stark: What? Daredev didn't improve in skill at all. He was still getting beaten up by fisk

Bane is stronger, faster, much more skilled, and doesn't feel pain. Simple, he wins.

He improved in durability. There was no noticeable moment where his skill improved, just his versatility when he decided to add the billyclubs. Despite his "advance," he had incredible difficulty against somebody who, quite frankly, is not impressive. Kingpin is not impressive; he was slow, he had no real skill. He was just strong and durable. He tanked Daredevil's hits, and Daredevil dodged most of Fisk's. It was not an impressive fight, and certainly did not appear like an epic fight between two skilled adversaries.

Bane showed actual skill, more strength and striking power than Fisk, and more pain resistance. Bane would stomp either Kingpin or Daredevil with ease. None of them showed that kind of striking power. Aside from the fight with Daredevil... Kingpin has no actual feats. He beat a guy with no feats and beat an incredibly injured Matt.

You think Bane would stomp daredevil?

I do. I don't particularly find Daredevil to be impressive, and his fight with Kingpin makes him look less impressive.

Are people basing this Daredevil hype on how flashy the choreography was? I guess i'm not really understanding it. He didn't impress me any more than someone like Batrock the leaper, or even a nameless League of Shadows goon. In fact, in the show, that's basically what Nobu was, and he sort of dominated Daredevil.

In real martial arts, the less moves it requires to utterly defeat your opponent, the more skilled you are. Bane is a man who doesn't waste any movements. Flashiness is purely for the sake of the audience, who want to watch prolonged fights.

Did I find the choreography more entertaining in DD? Sure, but none of it implied skill beyond what i'd expect a real world martial artist to be capable of. Whereas Bane and Batman both scraped super human capabilities.

@jedixman: so you see Fisk's fight against DD being more of a low showing for DD rather than I high showing for Fisk? I saw it as a high showing for Fisk. Since it was Fisk's first real fight in the show with nothing else to go off, and we already had a good idea of DD's skill and stats by that point....the fact that Fisk was able to hold his own against Matt, and honestly would have killed him if not for the new suit, makes that fight a good showing for Fisk. Not a low one for Matt.

Bane

Hmmm, probably Bane(maybe)

It looked bad for both of them. Matt should never have been tagged considering how casually he dodged most of Fisk's blows. Fisk's best feat was throwing Matt, and I still don't think it was great. He's strong, not skilled. He fought like a simple brawler who looked confused when Matt dodged his blows.

I was extremely unimpressed by Fisk's showings and, by extension, unimpressed when Matt was having a difficult time.

I should CaV someone using nolan batman :P

Bane wins here, IMO showed more skill, greater strength + hitting power, and decent speed in combat.

Get outta here, the final fight was the best in the series. It doesn't need to be a fight between two skilled adversaries to be epic, in my opinion that actually gets redundant if it's just skill vs more skill. Daredevil vs Nobu was rather boring. With Fisk vs Daredevil, they each had their own unique advantages that were highlighted for why they can be useful. Fisk wasn't skilled but he was a physical beast, even after watching the fight over and over again, I still lose it every time the music drops as Fisk finally gets his hands on Daredevil and starts flinging him around.

Would you like to?

It might have been dramatic (even though the sparks were stupid and kinda took me out of the moment), but from a feat perspective, it wasn't very impressive.

Well I disagree with that too. Fisk might not have been skilled, but neither is his comic book counterpart. I mean yeah Kingpin in the comics is trained in sumo wrestling, but that really isn't much to brag about in the scheme of things, his real strength is how much of a physical monster he is, combined with a simple but not ineffective brawling style. The same goes for MCU Fisk, he wasn't trained, but he wasn't unskilled either, he played to his own advantages, grappling, throwing, headbutting, he even used some kicks and knees when Matt had him on the ground, and when you consider how incredible the physical difference between him and Matt was, the fact that Daredevil beat him through sheer skill makes it impressive. At least, depending on what your standards are. Yeah he isn't on par with a comic book character, but for what the show is, beating Fisk is probably Daredevil's best feat, and personally I would put both characters somewhere between the Nolanverse and Arrow.

Think of it this way: when Owlsley jabbed his taser into Matt's hip/ribcage, it didn't simply deal severe damage, it knocked Matt completely out cold. Now when Owlsley jabbed the same taser into Fisk's NECK, all Fisk did was squint his eyes in discomfort for a second, and then shrug it off. Fisk's physicals weren't just > to Daredevil's, they were more like >>>.

Matt was extremely skillful in that fight, parrying blows and outmaneuvering Fisk at every turn, the problem is that Fisk was just such a physical tank, nothing did any damage. I don't hold that against Matt, it just goes to show how powerful Fisk really was.

know it's a bit off topic but was anyone crying at nelson vs murdock ) .:

Bane.

Bane stomps

@nickzambuto: I'm in a CaV right now and I do one cav at a time. In regards to using Nolan Batman for a cav I was mainly talking about facing (Netflix) Daredevil or is it MCU Daredevil...

Ah, you want to face MCU Daredevil? I was thinking you were supporting Nolan Batman.

Either one of those monickers, Netflix or MCU, is accurate.

Bane with ease

@nickzambuto: Yeah lol.

What do you mean supporting nolan batman?

I thought YOU wanted to debate for Nolan Batman beating Daredevil, and I would debate for Daredevil.

I still haven't gotten around to watching TDKR and Daredevil.

@immortal777: Shame on you

@nickzambuto: I mean I kind of do, after I finish up this CaV with jcthripper I'll think about facing you in a CaV

@eisenfauste: What can I say I've been busy.

@immortal777: uh huh, surrrrrrre. Busy with what? Life? Pfffffft I do life in my sleep bruh.

Bane is more skilled and has better striking and durability feats.

Kingpin might have better damage soak.

@eisenfauste: Life? What a loser ain't nobody got time for that, do you realize just how difficult it is to sit on my ass all day? Get out of here with that life sh!t brah.

Bane.

Kingpin