Back in Black Spider-Man vs Wolverine (Read OP)

@wolverine08:

I enjoy it, but I find I don't get to use it as often as I'd like haha.

@granitesoldier:

Just wait until the next Spider-Man vs Wolverine debate rolls around. You can stick this in some sorry Wolverine supporter's face! :D

Haha

@sheenlantern:

All you show in that scan, is a hyperbole comment and Spider-Man unloading his so-called "machine-gun" speed on Kingpin ... without even KO'ing him!! Lol. Yeah, Wolverine's in trouble. And Spider-Man was absolutely unloading on Wolverine. Because A) he says so and B) he knows Wolverine can take it, and he was prepared to kill him to stop him if necessary.

Peter has only ONCE "outperformed" against Logan ... and that was the aforementioned Yost's showing where Logan was holding back, didn't pop his claws, and had his face smashed into the concrete (Wolverine was not expecting "Peter" to react so harshly and out of character otherwise, his game plan would have been a hell of a lot different).

Wolverine's proven he's held back against Spider-Man numerous times;

• When he punched him claws sheathed (graveyard fight)
• After the graveyard fight, Wolverine had another appearance in Spider-Man's own title wherein he casually, and easily, slashed open Parker's shirt to reveal the costume he was wearing underneath. And this to prove he was holding back and could tag him as a matter of course.
• In their practice session at Avenger's Mansion Wolverine accidentally cuts Spider-Man (who had an amp from The Other). Again, showing clearly he always holds back and when he went a little too "all out" he accidentally tags Parker. Moral of the story? If someone can "accidentally" tag someone, they can most certainly "intentionally" do likewise.
• When a pissed Spider-Man decks Wolverine in New Avengers (Fallen Son storyline I believe), Wolverine easily grabs a pissed off Parker, slams in on the ground and pins him claws to face. Game over. Parker = dead if Wolverine wants it to happen.

The Yost showing, where Wolverine was temporarily KO'd is definitely the exception, and not the rule with their cumulative encounters. At best, it shows Spider-Man has the potential to KO Wolverine, maybe, but he has to fight through the claws to get there. That's a tall order.

@super_soldierxii:

The Yost showing was what I was referring to when I mentioned that Peter outperformed Logan. I was just pointing out to Vegan that blunt force trauma isn't the most logical way to win here since Wolverine has a consistent history of soaking the all the blunt force trauma Parker's dishes out and the only real instance I recall him downing Wolverine with such ease via blunt force was the Yost incident (An instance in which he was being tentative and wondering about Parker's mental state when he got jumped).

I admittedly haven't seen or read about that practice session or the New Avengers moments. Do you got scans?

1. Graveyard Fight-Wolverine was only able to do that because Spider-man "let him tackle [him].'

2. I'm not aware of this showing. May I see a scan or issue number?

3. If you're talking about the MK Spider-man fight, there was no indication that that was an accident. It looked a lot like it was on purpose. I don't often say "Tag, you're it boy" when I hit someone on accident. And this was a pre-Other fight as well.

4.Where Spider-man was irrational, threw one punch in a ridiculously closed area, and then Wolverine tackled him? I'm not one to usually call bad writing at the drop of a hat, but that series was written by Loeb, so that's a small thing to consider, as well.

And I'm saying that the encounters in which Peter has actually hit Wolverine more than once have him with one K.O. and one failure to K.O.

@vegandiet:

1. Graveyard Fight-Wolverine was only able to do that because Spider-man "let him tackle [him].'

2. I'm not aware of this showing. May I see a scan or issue number?

3. If you're talking about the MK Spider-man fight, there was no indication that that was an accident. It looked a lot like it was on purpose. I don't often say "Tag, you're it boy" when I hit someone on accident. And this was a pre-Other fight as well.

4.Where Spider-man was irrational, threw one punch in a ridiculously closed area, and then Wolverine tackled him? I'm not one to usually call bad writing at the drop of a hat, but that series was written by Loeb, so that's a small thing to consider, as well.

And I'm saying that the encounters in which Peter has actually hit Wolverine more than once have him with one K.O. and one failure to K.O.

1. And I'm saying regardless what Spider-Man's said, he knew Wolverine was holding back or why would he "let" a mutant with six twelve inch claws "tackle him"? Would be the dumbest strategy one could possibly imagine. Wolverine weren't holding back, Spider-Man would have been gutted a few times over.
2. Issue #29 of Web of Spider-Man reiterates that fact when Wolverine, in the aftermath of Berlin, comes to counsel Parker and before Peter can react, easily cuts open his shirt hinting just how accurate, fast and skilled he is with them claw swipes of his. And that he can tag Parker should he so choose. He holds back.
3. No. That's not the fight.
4. Did the same thing in Mcfarlane's run. And they were out in the open under a clear blue sky bud. Sounds like you're making excuses.

You're wrong. Spider-Man's unloaded on Wolverine 4 times and has punched him plenty of other times besides (on a rooftop he was swinging at Wolverine hard enough to crumble chimneys). Heck, he punched an uncharacteristically antagonistic Logan through a bullet proof glass window to fall down to the street many stories below. Wolverine dusted himself off and walked right back up.

Spider-Man's blunt force damage output is very questionable at best with regards being able to take Wolverine out in a brawl before he gets put down. Wolverine only needs to tag him once. And a serious minded Wolverine has done so plenty of times.

Keep talking about how Parker can KO Logan and I'll post the pic where Wolverine one shot KO's Parker in their 6 issue mini. :P

1. To get him close enough to try snapping his neck. That was his plan, and the narration made it very obvious. Peter said he let him tackle him, so he let him. End of. He also notes several times throughout the fight that Logan is trying to kill him and will kill him if he gets the chance. It was pretty clear that the writer of the original story wasn't intending for Wolverine to be holding back.

2. I was unaware of this. Thank you for the info.

3.Then which fight is it, may I ask?

4.You mean where Logan starts displaying the worlds worst display of short man's syndrome and grabs Peter by the throat while they were in mid-conversation? While Peter was standing like an inch from him? Trying to talk to him? Really? I fail to see how that's possibly evidence of any kind of battle scenario.

Unloaded? Could you post the times when he unloaded? Because outside of Spider-man vs. Wolverine and the Yost fight, I've failed to see a battle in which Spider-man hit Logan more than twice.

Go ahead, then I'll be happy to post their Secret Wars scuffle where Peter backhands Logan across the room all cas. :P

@vegandiet:

1. To get him close enough to try snapping his neck. That was his plan, and the narration made it very obvious. Peter said he let him tackle him, so he let him. End of. He also notes several times throughout the fight that Logan is trying to kill him and will kill him if he gets the chance. It was pretty clear that the writer of the original story wasn't intending for Wolverine to be holding back.

2. I was unaware of this. Thank you for the info.

3.Then which fight is it, may I ask?

4.You mean where Logan starts displaying the worlds worst display of short man's syndrome and grabs Peter by the throat while they were in mid-conversation? While Peter was standing like an inch from him? Trying to talk to him? Really? I fail to see how that's possibly evidence of any kind of battle scenario.

1. I understand that was his plan. Again, I'm not doubting that Spider-Man let Wolverine close so he could attempt to snap his neck. I'm clearly stating that he wouldn't have done so had he truly believed Wolverine was gunning to kill him otherwise our genius Parker is a complete idiot. The result is plain to see as Logan's claws were then sheathed, and likewise so when he punched Parker in the face. Ergo, an assumption was made that Wolverine would not use deadly force. And I can post literally dozens upon dozens of instances where Parker was punched, kicked, tackled by a plethora of foes, from DD and Punisher (consistently) to blokes like Rhino and Hulk. Let's not try to pretend he actually has to "let" Wolverine tag him for it to be plausible k?
2. No problem. However, it does highlight the point I'm making above which is the whole reason I made mention of it. Is that too acknowledged?
3. Sure. You may ask.
4. Oh, you mean like how Mr. Insecure-knowing-he-cannot-beat-Wolverine-in-a-brawl Parker, webbed Wolverine up with his claws to his head while they were in mid conversation? Like, that kind of bada$$ery? Point was to illustrate how Wolverine can, and has, tagged Parker at will despite spider-sense. Spider-sense which is active regardless of being in battle or not. And really, all he has to do is tag him but once.

Unloaded? Could you post the times when he unloaded? Because outside of Spider-man vs. Wolverine and the Yost fight, I've failed to see a battle in which Spider-man hit Logan more than twice.

Yes, I realize you failed to see numerous battles that did not prove your point. And I've posted ad nausea these instances in numerous threads of the ephemeral "Spider-Man versus Wolverine" debates. Frankly, I can't be f@cked to do it again here and could care less what you wish to believe.

Go ahead, then I'll be happy to post their Secret Wars scuffle where Peter backhands Logan across the room all cas. :P

Only, aside from being actually credible, this arc was also incredibly well written and a helluva good read. Therein lies the difference. And it wasn't written during Spider-Man's "Golden Boy" era where he was Marvel's #1 meal ticket taking on the Fantastic Four all by his lonesome and such.

Don't take the following personally, as it's years in the making, but I was summoned to this battle thread, and against my good senses, chose to engage in another Spider-Man vs Wolverine debate that does little save rub my nerves raw after 3+ years of the same back and forth. I have always felt, and continue to feel, that Spider-Man fans (with few exceptions) are by far the worst on the Vine (not talking about you per se) and will abstain from further debate herein. Unless you or someone else states something absolutely silly that I can't help but address.

Spider-Man is far from being able to drop Wolverine in a brawl for a majority without webbing, when all a serious minded Wolverine has to do is hit him but once. Odds, including past contests, favor Wolverine being able to land that one telling blow, before being put down.

Cheers.

1.It's not stated or implied that Wolverine was holding back during that fight, Spider-man directly states that Wolverine is trying to kill him. Perhaps the sheated punch Wolverine figured he end the fight without either of them having to die. He was clearly going for the kill earlier in the fight. The narration supports that as do the moves Wolverine was using. Go ahead, fact remains that, in that fight, Wolverine did not tag Peter until he was allowed.

2.I would like to see the scene in context. I also find it a tad suspect to use things not done in an actual battle as evidence.

3……Really, man? Kind of obnoxious.

4.If you can find where I brought that up in this thread I'd love to see it. Also, it'd be nice of you to note that Mr. Danny Devito with claws, attacked Peter and a, seemingly, innocent kid immediately prior to this. Would be pretty irresponsible of Spider-man to just let a fellow hero and friend murder a kid right in front of him, don't ya think? It would be pretty unheroic if a super hero let another super hero murder a child, right in front of them.

So no other battles in which Spider-man actually hit Wolverine more than once or twice? K, cool. So, he's still at a 50% success rate when he's actually fought a prolonged battle with Wolverine.

I agree, Astonishing Spider-man & Wolverine was a great read. I also highly enjoyed Secret Wars. Many others apparently did, as well, as it's been voted as a Top 100 comic book storyline twice in a row.

Yeah, Spider-man was the golden boy in that era, but you've used two examples (McFarlane and Larsen) from the dark, gritty era when bad boys like Wolverine were treated as the be-all end-all of awesome, so I wouldn't get to high up on that horse if I were you.

I do take it personally, however. I'd been having a perfectly fine conversation with you, until now, when you decided to get all salty over another Spider-man vs. Wolverine debate. I'm sorry that these upset you so much that you have to be hostile to someone that hasn't warranted it. You know, they're strictly voluntary, right? If someone calls you out in the thread, just say you'd rather not get involved. Simple.

Can you tell me what I said that was so silly you had to put yourself in a situation that is so clearly unpleasant for you to be in?

I'm still going with Spider-man as being capable of putting Wolverine down.

Cheerio.

@vegandiet:

1.It's not stated or implied that Wolverine was holding back during that fight, Spider-man directly states that Wolverine is trying to kill him. Perhaps the sheated punch Wolverine figured he end the fight without either of them having to die. He was clearly going for the kill earlier in the fight. The narration supports that as do the moves Wolverine was using. Go ahead, fact remains that, in that fight, Wolverine did not tag Peter until he was allowed.

I already stated that it's implied in Web of Spider-Man #29. And to be clear, it's Spider-Man's inner narrative that clearly states he believes Wolverine was trying to kill him. He states "I can't let up. He'll kill me". If Wolverine were stating his intentions to kill Parker, that'd be a different story. Wolverine's attacked with his claws for intimidation factor plenty and makes it a point not to use lethal force on other heroes unless he absolutely must - this is established character morals for 616 Wolverine. I already stated Web of Spider-Man #29 reinforces the notion Wolverine was not, in fact, gunning to gut Parker despite using his claws as he illustrated by easily landing a precision strike and opening Parker's shirt.

And are you going to continue stating Wolverine can't tag Spider-Man? Really? Any idea how weak that argument is at this stage in the on going debate?

2.I would like to see the scene in context. I also find it a tad suspect to use things not done in an actual battle as evidence.

So, read the book.

3……Really, man? Kind of obnoxious.

I'm not your servant dude. If I don't care to click my heals and fetch scans at your every beck and call ... then that's just the way it is. Continue to take it personal or not. As aforementioned, I couldn't care less.

4.If you can find where I brought that up in this thread I'd love to see it.

Brought what up?

Also, it'd be nice of you to note that Mr. Danny Devito with claws,

See ... that's a continuation of your passive aggressive comments and then you act all surprised when I respond, as you put it, obnoxiously. Try not to pretend you don't ooze attitude yourself there champ. You're being antagonistic with those remarks and you know it.

attacked Peter and a, seemingly, innocent kid immediately prior to this. Would be pretty irresponsible of Spider-man to just let a fellow hero and friend murder a kid right in front of him, don't ya think? It would be pretty unheroic if a super hero let another super hero murder a child, right in front of them.

Nah. It's irresponsible not to talk with Logan and figure out why the erratic behavior first. And the point behind my bringing this instance up in retort to your comment was clear. If it flew over your head then so be it.

So no other battles in which Spider-man actually hit Wolverine more than once or twice? K, cool. So, he's still at a 50% success rate when he's actually fought a prolonged battle with Wolverine.

So you're stating because you don't know about it, it hasn't happened. You've read all 9000+ Wolverine appearances have you? Or even more impressive, all of Spider-Man's? Listen, you run with what you know.

Yeah, Spider-man was the golden boy in that era, but you've used two examples (McFarlane and Larsen) from the dark, gritty era when bad boys like Wolverine were treated as the be-all end-all of awesome, so I wouldn't get to high up on that horse if I were you.

You seriously trying to compare Wolverine's popularity in the 70's and 80's to Spider-Man's? OK.

I do take it personally, however. I'd been having a perfectly fine conversation with you, until now, when you decided to get all salty over another Spider-man vs. Wolverine debate. I'm sorry that these upset you so much that you have to be hostile to someone that hasn't warranted it. You know, they're strictly voluntary, right? If someone calls you out in the thread, just say you'd rather not get involved. Simple.

Nah, they don't upset me. They annoy. Not the same. It's the same generic responses from both camps, over and over and over with zero originality that becomes boring and repetitive. And due to the same tired arguments used by you yourself (and me in response) you do really kinda deserve every verb I've written and I've deserved all of yours. So take it personally then. By all means.

I cannot pretend to ignore silliness when it's directed at me personally. So I get involved. Not to would probably see me giving up this account and heading off to do something else. Which will probably happen very soon anyways.

Same old tired arguments and same old tired rational. There's not too much originality in the Battle forums when you've been at it for over 3 years. Guess it's all just gotten old and it's my time to move on.

I'm still going with Spider-man as being capable of putting Wolverine down.

He's capable, but not for a majority win he isn't.

Yeah, "Cheerio" ... yeesh.

Outside of a battle when Spider-man is apparently in civilian clothes and unprepared for a fight. Is there some narration there where either of them says or thinks something along the lines of "He/I could have got me/him during our earlier fight any time I wanted to"? Because I don't see how Wolverine attacking an unprepared Peter has anything to do with a fight in which they're both prepared.

Never state anything of the sort. Just said that the only time Wolverine tagged Peter in that fight was when he was allowed. Sorry.

So, read the book.

Would love to. Sadly I don't have the time to go out and hunt for it right now.

I'm not your servant dude. If I don't care to click my heals and fetch scans at your every beck and call ... then that's just the way it is. Continue to take it personal or not. As aforementioned, I couldn't care less.

So somehow the idea of evidence backing up your claims became foreign to you just recently. How strange.

Brought what up?

See ... that's a continuation of your passive aggressive comments and then you act all surprised when I respond, as you put it, obnoxiously. Try not to pretend you don't ooze attitude yourself there champ. You're being antagonistic with those remarks and you know it.

Spider-man webbing up Wolverine in the alley. You're the one who brought it up first.

I made a joke about the awful characterization of Wolverine in that McFarlane book. You insulted Spider-man back, I responded in kind. Back and forth ribbing, or at least that's what I thought it was. I'm sorry you took my joke so seriously.

Nah. It's irresponsible not to talk with Logan and figure out why the erratic behavior first. And the point behind my bringing this instance up in retort to your comment was clear. If it flew over your head then so be it.

Yeah, I often ask people about their feelings immediately after they try to butcher me and a child. Get real. Except the situations aren't comparable. You brought up the McFarlane instance as proof of Wolverine being able to tag Spidey. I said why I though that was suspect, at best. You decided now was the best time to bring up the webbing instance for some reason, even though webbing isn't even an issue in this thread. They're also not comparable as Spider-man had made no hostile movement towards Wolverine in the McFarlane issue. Wolverine had just tried to stab him in MTU issue.

So you're stating because you don't know about it, it hasn't happened. You've read all 9000+ Wolverine appearances have you? Or even more impressive, all of Spider-Man's? Listen, you run with what you know.

No, I'm saying if it has happened, I haven't seen it. And since you seem so hesitant to bring counter-evidence to the table, I guess there's no way that I can.

I have read quite a good deal of Spider-man's main titles and I've seen scans or personally read what seems to be every issue in which Spider-man and Wolverine have fought. Except for that one instance that you're so shy to share, it seems.

You seriously trying to compare Wolverine's popularity in the 70's and 80's to Spider-Man's? OK.

No, I'm just saying that in the era those issues were penned, people like Wolverine and Punisher and what not were usually presented as the coolest and writers went out of their way to make them look like the best, at times.

Why is popularity being brought up by you anyway? In the 70's Spider-man was indeed extremely popular, but he was pretty much at the weakest he's ever been during that era, so I hardly see how popularity is such a big part of the discussion.

Nah, they don't upset me. They annoy. Not the same. It's the same generic responses from both camps, over and over and over with zero originality that becomes boring and repetitive. And due to the same tired arguments used by you yourself (and me in response) you do really kinda deserve every verb I've written and I've deserved all of yours. So take it personally then. By all means.

I cannot pretend to ignore silliness when it's directed at me personally. So I get involved. Not to would probably see me giving up this account and heading off to do something else. Which will probably happen very soon anyways.

Same old tired arguments and same old tired rational. There's not too much originality in the Battle forums when you've been at it for over 3 years. Guess it's all just gotten old and it's my time to move on.

Really? Cause you seem upset. I mean a small joke at the expense of a character appeared to rile you up enough to refer to me as antagonistic.

Yes, you can. Easily. You're obviously very knowledgable about comics, so why don't you just take part in debates that you do find exciting instead?

Fruit Loops.

@vegandiet:

So somehow the idea of evidence backing up your claims became foreign to you just recently. How strange.

No. I knew by reading your retorts that doing so was useless. You'll avoid the obvious to support a very strained line of defense like; "oh, Spider-Man was in cramped surroundings". Dear lord. Excusing it away with stuff like that is why I didn't bother. It's not the cramped surroundings why Wolverine was able to grab him, throw him to the ground and pin him claws to face. It was because Parker engaged him hand to hand, even being the aggressor who sucker punched him. Wolverine essentially laughed off Parker's haymaker as though it were nothing more than an annoyance. Parker was clearly pissed and his punch clearly unrestrained. To answer an earlier question as to what is "silly"; it's "silly" to try to deflect the obvious with crap like "closed environment" when it had nothing to do with their exchange. Parker attacked Wolverine and lost the exchange just that quickly. They could have been in the open prairies and the result would have been the same given context. Nothing in the brief encounter suggests "environment" had anything to do with it.

And obviously Spider-Man was pulling his punches here too right;

No, I'm saying if it has happened, I haven't seen it. And since you seem so hesitant to bring counter-evidence to the table, I guess there's no way that I can.

I have read quite a good deal of Spider-man's main titles and I've seen scans or personally read what seems to be every issue in which Spider-man and Wolverine have fought. Except for that one instance that you're so shy to share, it seems.

Really? Cause you seem upset. I mean a small joke at the expense of a character appeared to rile you up enough to refer to me as antagonistic.

Oh you knew that did you? I'm glad you can tell so much about me without making an attempt.

They were in cramped surroundings, Spider-man was irrational and upset about Captain America's death, he was venting his frustrations on Wolverine, we've seen Spider-man's mental state affect his fighting ability a good number of times, why would this time be any different?

No, I actually apologize. I had forgotten about that scene. That's my fault. No, he probably isn't holding back, but he was just stabbed and was apparently bleeding enough for him to slip through Iron Man's grip and to pass out soon afterwards. That would seem fairly likely to affect how much effort he could be putting in.

And this is the Marvel Knights fight I referenced earlier. You said that it wasn't. It seems you were mistaken. It was also pre-Other power up.

Yeah, calling Wolverines "Danny Devito with claws" or making fun of his bad characterization in one instance is so very offensive and clearly malicious on my part.

Upset or annoyed, you're being a bit of a dick because I made a little jab at Wolverine.

Actually I brought up Larsen because I believe he was penciller, and writer(?), of one of the Spidey vs. Wolverine fights you brought up earlier.

I'm aware of the article. Whoo, it's a good thing, I guess, that writer interviews don't mean squat unless there's some comics to go with them or those opinions might mean something.

@vegandiet:

Oh you knew that did you? I'm glad you can tell so much about me without making an attempt.

I knew what? I'm glad you're glad ... ?

They were in cramped surroundings

Which had bumpkiss to do with the exchange.

Spider-man was irrational and upset about Captain America's death, he was venting his frustrations on Wolverine, we've seen Spider-man's mental state affect his fighting ability a good number of times, why would this time be any different?

Yes. He was upset. Which made him the aggressor. In a brawl, Spider-Man will have to exchange with Wolverine. In an exchange, he will have to throw a punch. That's just what he did. He threw a punch. Then Logan pinned him. Just that quick. There is no mistake apparent nor any other variance in play (environment or otherwise) to effect the what happened. If Spider-Man takes the fight to Wolverine in a brawl, it will more than likely end badly for him. More evidence to show this than the contrary. Doesn't matter how you need to spin it.

No, I actually apologize. I had forgotten about that scene. That's my fault. No, he probably isn't holding back, but he was just stabbed and was apparently bleeding enough for him to slip through Iron Man's grip and to pass out soon afterwards. That would seem fairly likely to affect how much effort he could be putting in.

No need to apologize. When adrenaline is pumping and driving your blows, I highly doubt his output is adversely effected. More than likely the inverse.

And this is the Marvel Knights fight I referenced earlier. You said that it wasn't. It seems you were mistaken. It was also pre-Other power up.

Yes. Which is how I knew you knew of this fight. I was referring to his battle with Kaine feeling a parallel between his bout with Kaine and this one very justifiable. My brain thought it clear, but rereading what I wrote, I realize it was far from. So that was my bad.

Yeah, calling Wolverines "Danny Devito with claws" or making fun of his bad characterization in one instance is so very offensive and clearly malicious on my part.

Never said it was. Don't exaggerate. I said it was passive aggressive behavior and far from innocently intoned. Which it is.

Upset or annoyed, you're being a bit of a dick because I made a little jab at Wolverine.

No. I'm being honest, blunt and direct. But you want to call me a d!ck, feel free. Mods tend to shy away from that type of thing on this site though. Not that I'll go reporting it. Just saying.

Actually I brought up Larsen because I believe he was penciller, and writer(?), of one of the Spidey vs. Wolverine fights you brought up earlier

Now that you know he has more of an affinity for Spider-Man, due to a far longer creative history with the character, I guess calling him bias is a bit off ... don't you?

I'm aware of the article. Whoo, it's a good thing, I guess, that writer interviews don't mean squat unless there's some comics to go with them or those opinions might mean something.

Just like to point out that you are calling the kettle black up above, and are just as much a, what was the word, well, you know, as I am. Just so you're aware of that. And if you feel that the opinion of two prominent creative forces behind Spider-Man in the 90's mean nothing, then fine. I tend to feel they know what they're talking about far more than you do with regards the two characters in question and that their collective opinions lend credence to the debate at hand.

You can think whatever you want pal, but you're wrong about those comments. They were said in jest and were not meant as anything other than good natured jabs at Wolverine. That's all. The fact that you took them incorrectly is not me. It's on you. I'm sorry you thought they were "passive aggressive behavior" and "far from innocently intoned," but thats not the way I intended them.

You are being hostile and condescending over basically nothing. That's a lil dickish in my opinion.

When did I call him biased? I merely noted that in the era that book was written gritty anti-heroes, like Wolverine, were clearly played up quite a bit as the coolest thing around. Nor does him having worked on more Spider-man books (Which I was well aware of before now, thanks.) preclude him from being biased in favor of Wolverine, but I'm not going to throw out any "fanboy writer" claims as that's completely pointless.

Howard Mackie and Erik Larsen are hardly known for being great Spider-man writers. I've seen people talk about Mackie's run with similar vitriol as they do the Clone Saga, and Larsen's run as plotter was pretty ridiculous with Spider-man getting a cyborg eye and a giant metal arm, the Sinister Six getting ridiculous looking weapons, and Dr. Ock stomping the Hulk. And, personally, I don't find interviews without comics to back them up to mean much, but that's just me.

I'm merely responding in kind to you becoming hostile over a joke. You decided to be condescending and hostile because I made two jokes. That is, frankly, a tad bit upsetting. You also decided that I would be a nice scapegoat over all your frustrations over Spider-man vs. Wolverine battles the board over, which feels a little unfair to me, as well.

I'm sorry I don't respond to unwarranted hostility with smiles and peace medallions.

@vegandiet:

You can think whatever you want pal, but you're wrong about those comments. They were said in jest and were not meant as anything other than good natured jabs at Wolverine. That's all. The fact that you took them incorrectly is not me. It's on you. I'm sorry you thought they were "passive aggressive behavior" and "far from innocently intoned," but thats not the way I intended them.

Mmhm.

You are being hostile and condescending over basically nothing. That's a lil dickish in my opinion.

And you're just such a boyscout. Don't tell me you're the one getting upset now ... for shame. What does all this have to do with the topic at hand though?

When did I call him biased? I merely noted that in the era that book was written gritty anti-heroes, like Wolverine, were clearly played up quite a bit as the coolest thing around. Nor does him having worked on more Spider-man books (Which I was well aware of before now, thanks.) preclude him from being biased in favor of Wolverine, but I'm not going to throw out any "fanboy writer" claims as that's completely pointless.

Yes. That is all pointless. Glad we agree.

Howard Mackie and Erik Larsen are hardly known for being great Spider-man writers.

Where did I call them great? Good or bad, they were prominent writers in the 90's. I merely billed their opinion on the matter as greater and far more substantial than yours.

I've seen people talk about Mackie's run with similar vitriol as they do the Clone Saga, and Larsen's run as plotter was pretty ridiculous with Spider-man getting a cyborg eye and a giant metal arm, the Sinister Six getting ridiculous looking weapons, and Dr. Ock stomping the Hulk.

Every single writer has been blasted with bad storytelling. From Bendis to Ennis to Lobdell. What you're trying to say is, their opinions should be ignored and overlooked due to some of their material not meeting your standards? Hogwash.

And, personally, I don't find interviews without comics to back them up to mean much, but that's just me.

You don't find opinions of the writers and artists that have actually worked creatively on the characters in question to mean much. Just thought I'd clarify. And I find that stance very "convenient". And again, Wolverine's cumulative showings against Spider-Man go far further to back their opinions than the inverse.

I'm merely responding in kind to you becoming hostile over a joke. You decided to be condescending and hostile because I made two jokes. That is, frankly, a tad bit upsetting. You also decided that I would be a nice scapegoat over all your frustrations over Spider-man vs. Wolverine battles the board over, which feels a little unfair to me, as well.

Overreact much? Sure, I didn't put on kids gloves, called it as I saw it, and if that hurt your feelings then, to coin a phrase, feel free not to respond and move on. Again, what does all this have to do with the debate at hand?

I never pretended to be perfect. I merely responded in kind to your overt condescension.

I'm not saying their material should be completely overlooked, but creators whose works have been rather consistently poor and ridiculous should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'll repeat for you, as you seem to be wanting to read only what you want into this :"I don't find interviews without comics to back them up to mean much, but that's just me." If there's no comics to back up these interviews that are over 10, maybe even 15, years old, then are they really all that relevant to the conversation?

So you don't recall saying this:

Yes, I realize you failed to see numerous battles that did not prove your point. And I've posted ad nausea these instances in numerous threads of the ephemeral "Spider-Man versus Wolverine" debates. Frankly, I can't be f@cked to do it again here and could care less what you wish to believe.

Because I asked to see other fights in which Spider-man actually struck Logan more than once?

And This:

I'm not your servant dude. If I don't care to click my heals and fetch scans at your every beck and call ... then that's just the way it is. Continue to take it personal or not. As aforementioned, I couldn't care less.

Because I asked to see a scan?

Or This:

Oh, you mean like how Mr. Insecure-knowing-he-cannot-beat-Wolverine-in-a-brawl Parker, webbed Wolverine up with his claws to his head while they were in mid conversation? Like, that kind of bada$$ery?

Because I made a joke and pointed out why I think one of your points wasn't valid?

Clearly you've been a bastion of calmness and rationality in all this.

You're right none of this has anything to do with the debate at hand, but you clearly aren't actually interested in debating. You're interested in getting upset, yes upset, over nothing, then being a condescending jerk about it.

I've begun to find that pretty tedious, so I'm going to do something which you're apparently incapable of: walking away from things which I find boring, frustrating, and pointless.

Ta.

@vegandiet:

Sure. On your way out, allow me this once to address your hurt feelings; I encourage you to scroll up ... I've been addressing the points that relate to the debate at hand, and have clearly glossed over, or treated with little to no import, those that did not. At this point, it's you who's been going off on a tangent with this whole condescension schtick playing the victim. There may be attitude in my retorts, but at least my retorts stick to the debate or the treatment thereof. The majority of your last two responses have been to justify and express how oh so badly I've been treating you. Seriously.

You've been taking more pot shots than I have "pal". And that's a fact. So yeah, move on and happy trails.

Wolverine wins.

Ta.

The moral of the story folks, is Vegan Diets make you overly sensitive and ornery.

Eat your meat people!!

Wow, noW that is just low.

I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to forget that one. LMAO!

:P

@vegandiet:

I'd like to apologize to you for pieces of my treatment of you yesterday. I was indeed being a bit of a dick. I think you make some good points, you seem to know your stuff, and you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Guess I was just having an off day. That 16oz steak made me ornery.

Logan would have a hard time being able to stab parker but with his spidey sense and especially with the black costume. But all it would take is One Stab in the chest and fight is over. If Logan is still standing after afew mins trying to attack Parker and figure out his Strategy I can see Logan having a shot.

It's cool, man. I'd like to apologize as well. I do promise you that there was no ill intent in my initial jokes at Wolverine's expense. I actually quite like Wolverine, I just find that he is occasionally very badly characterized and I meant to poke a little fun at that. I could have tried to make that a little more clear so that you didn't think I meant them maliciously.

Whilst attempting to defend myself, I also acted far worse than anything you'd accused me of and made the situation worse. I apologize for that, as well.

It's abundantly clear that I'd had just too much tofu that day.

And thank you. It was very good of you to apologize.

(For the record, I'm not actually Vegan. This was literally all I could think of for a mildly catchy username.)

Vegan diets bring everyone together :)

Probably gonna regret this, but bump.

This whole Spider-Man vs Wolverine is a little silly to me. If you're taking the gloves off of Spidey's morals then we need to consider a few things. Wolverines skeleton is basically indestructible, true, but his flesh is still flesh. With a healing factor, yes, but your talking about someone(Spider-Man) who can lift tons versus a fairly strong guy (wolverine) who is at the top of human-levels. So, if Spider-Man were to really lose it and go all out to take out Wolverine, he'd just rip his arms off. Arms are not attached to the body by our skeleton, people. It just wouldn't be fair to Wolverine. A murderous Spider-Man would be scary thing to behold.

To me seems this Version of Spiderman very similar to Kaine so I think Back in Black Spiderman beats Wolverine just like Kaine did (without webbing him up)

This battle is not fair, Logan has the claws but Spidey can't use his webbing? Well, I think Peter has a shot via BFR. On a side note, I'm sure Logan could put Peter down with knuckles alone or pressure points, he has done it before like here:

Yeah I know it's a sucker punch but the scan does show that Logan has what it takes to drop Spidey without using his claws, just my 2 cents