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#1 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio
By: Aries888

5 hours prep, both.

Battle ends in death.

Battle takes place in Hogwarts.

BFR allowed.

Morals off, bloodlust on.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

Azula and Ozai with ease, they are much faster and they don't need to say anything before doing it.

#3 Edited by Tohoma (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 wins. Lord Voldermort is immortal through his holcruxes.

#4 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCerealKillz said:

Azula and Ozai with ease, they are much faster and they don't need to say anything before doing it.

Hmm?

Voldemort can conjure a Silver Shield as a result of prep which can protect against fire, normally meant to protect against any type of spell.

And:

Appearently he did mental spells with the wave of his hand without doing it vocally. Snape is also a master of Legilimency, occlumency and mental assaults.

#5 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks:

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

@Tohoma said:

Team 2 wins. Lord Voldermort is immortal through his holcruxes.

I'd be pretty dumb to make a match in which the horcruxes were active, wouldn't it.

#6 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

Wow. The spells are FIRE spells. It burns like fire, it scorches like fire-IT'S fire. And he can use a transmuation and silver shield against Fire.

Show me lightning failing against one of Voldemort's guards (shields). Also, Voldemort has used a lightning spell before, so he's good in that aera.

#7 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

Wow. The spells are FIRE spells. It burns like fire, it scorches like fire-IT'S fire. And he can use a transmuation and silver shield against Fire.

Show me lightning failing against one of Voldemort's guards (shields). Also, Voldemort has used a lightning spell before, so he's good in that aera.

The method the fire was created is what I'm talking about, not the actual fire.

Just because he's used a lightening spell does not mean that he's in any way stronger than Azula or Ozai.

Any ways, let's talk about the Wizards offensive. They aren't going to be able to hit either.

#8 Posted by Tohoma (1172 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCerealKillz said:

@Kingjohnrocks:

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

@Tohoma said:

Team 2 wins. Lord Voldermort is immortal through his holcruxes.

I'd be pretty dumb to make a match in which the horcruxes were active, wouldn't it.

Lol it wasn't in the OP that it was restricted.

#9 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCerealKillz said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

Wow. The spells are FIRE spells. It burns like fire, it scorches like fire-IT'S fire. And he can use a transmuation and silver shield against Fire.

Show me lightning failing against one of Voldemort's guards (shields). Also, Voldemort has used a lightning spell before, so he's good in that aera.

The method the fire was created is what I'm talking about, not the actual fire.

Just because he's used a lightening spell does not mean that he's in any way stronger than Azula or Ozai.

Any ways, let's talk about the Wizards offensive. They aren't going to be able to hit either.

Show me Azula or Ozai resisting a telepathic spell, and while Azula is being mentally assaulted Voldemort is hurling Avada Kedavra at Ozai without talking (he can do that), and using transmutation against his blasts of fire. Then he teleports and reappears behind Ozai and hits him with a killing curse before he can do anything. It's a likely and possible offensive.

#10 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@TheCerealKillz said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

Wow. The spells are FIRE spells. It burns like fire, it scorches like fire-IT'S fire. And he can use a transmuation and silver shield against Fire.

Show me lightning failing against one of Voldemort's guards (shields). Also, Voldemort has used a lightning spell before, so he's good in that aera.

The method the fire was created is what I'm talking about, not the actual fire.

Just because he's used a lightening spell does not mean that he's in any way stronger than Azula or Ozai.

Any ways, let's talk about the Wizards offensive. They aren't going to be able to hit either.

Show me Azula or Ozai resisting a telepathic spell, and while Azula is being mentally assaulted Voldemort is hurling Avada Kedavra at Ozai without talking (he can do that), and using transmutation against his blasts of fire. Then he teleports and reappears behind Ozai and hits him with a killing curse before he can do anything. It's a likely and possible offensive.

This would be great, however this match isn't going to last long enough for the battle to go on.

Bending battles are much more fast paced than a wizard battle.

Ozai and Azula have shown to be able to dodge attacks, much less a spell.

#11 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tohoma said:

@TheCerealKillz said:

@Kingjohnrocks:

All of this is for spells, not normal fire.

As for the shield, I'd doubt he could do the same with lightening.

@Tohoma said:

Team 2 wins. Lord Voldermort is immortal through his holcruxes.

I'd be pretty dumb to make a match in which the horcruxes were active, wouldn't it.

Lol it wasn't in the OP that it was restricted.

It'd be pretty dumb to suggest otherwise.

#12 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

This would be great, however this match isn't going to last long enough for the battle to go on.

Bending battles are much more fast paced than a wizard battle.

Ozai and Azula have shown to be able to dodge attacks, much less a spel

Here's how this battle would probably go.

*Snape, Voldemort and Azula and Ozai stand apart from eachother*

Azula: Time to light this place up (she's known for making stupid remarks before fighting)

Snape: Imperio! or *Points wand at her and invades her mind*

*Ozai looks at Azula in shock*

Voldemort: *Teleports behind Ozai, then fires avada kedavra

Ozai: Dodges but Voldemort keeps teleporting and then hits him with Cruciatus by pointing his wand at him*

*Ozai feels electrocuted massive pain and falls to the floor, weak*

*Voldemort then casts Avada Kedavra and finishes him off

*Severus Snape forces Azula to electrocute herself*

*They both walk away in victory*

#13 Posted by TheCerealKillz (10266 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks:

You yourself said that this battle is a morals off and bloodlusted Azula and Ozai no one is making a funny remark.

You think that Ozai would be caught off guard by teleporting?

Ozai himself has shown the ability to light up an giant area and burn anything in his way, why wouldn't he do the same right here and end it?

#14 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCerealKillz said:

@Kingjohnrocks:

You yourself said that this battle is a morals off and bloodlusted Azula and Ozai no one is making a funny remark.

You think that Ozai would be caught off guard by teleporting?

Ozai himself has shown the ability to light up an giant area and burn anything in his way, why wouldn't he do the same right here and end it?

Because Voldemort would simply turn the Fire into a snake, I mean he did that to the whip while his hands weren't able to move, he just did it. He didn't move his wand, his just did it.

Yes, Ozai would get off guard if Voldemort teleported by instant, and Voldemort, like I said, can simply turn the Snakes into 50 fire worms in an instant, then use Cruciatus curse against Ozai. Ozai can not resist that.

#15 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

What's stopping the wizard team from getting blitzed? If the avatar duo can react to lightening, they can dodge spells any time any day..

#16 Edited by Kellar21 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do you make these battles if you already know who will win?If you already know of Voldemorts abilities against fire or is certain his teleporting is going to throw NaziFirelord and his daughter off why bother?

It looks like you feed off this.

Anyway 7/10 to wizards the benders only chance is if they flash fire the place or hit Voldy as soon as he is finished teleporting,that will destroy his mortal body and he will have to make another to come back even with his horcruxs.Snape would die for good though.The Wizards on the other hand have the ability to create and manipulate fire,teleportation,the killing curse and a plethora of spells that can outclass the benders in vesality and utility in this battle(shields,transmutation).Although benders have shown bigger displays of raw power(thair flames were bigger).Not that this is going to help them though.

#17 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

What's stopping the wizard team from getting blitzed? If the avatar duo can react to lightening, they can dodge spells any time any day..

If Voldemort can cast multiple spells (avada kedavra) and a fire worm without talking and without acting, when they need to use their hands, I think Voldemort has more impressive speed feats.

#18 Posted by YoungJustice (6372 posts) - - Show Bio

Season 4 Azula torches the places.

#19 Posted by NeonGameWave (7205 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 wrecks.

#20 Posted by bloggerboy (475 posts) - - Show Bio

Not saying Team 2 would win automatically but both Voldemort and Snape can fly (be it book or movie) though so can at least Ozai.

The wizards also know how to cast a Dissillusionment Charm, making them both appear as chameleons. That and I wager they can turn themselves invisible and cast other charms to protect themselves.

Voldemort could summon the basilisk from the chamber of secrets, being the Heir of Slytherin. He and Snape could imagine a fortified room in the Room of Requirement given Voldemort knows about it's existance.

And given they are at Hogwarts Snape could brew potions or have them be ready in stock (such as Felix Felicis) but it's a stretch, I admit it.

And if it's not clear already then let it be said that both Voldemort and Snape know Hogwarts and the grounds there in general. That should give some tactical advantage Snape knows the secret passage from the Whomping Willow (could be used as a weapon) to the Shrieking Shack.

#21 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

What's stopping the wizard team from getting blitzed? If the avatar duo can react to lightening, they can dodge spells any time any day..

If Voldemort can cast multiple spells (avada kedavra) and a fire worm without talking and without acting, when they need to use their hands, I think Voldemort has more impressive speed feats.

He has never shown anything compared to lightening speed.

#22 Posted by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

Wizards chance is to amp themselves with a lot of spells before the battle otherwise benders will blitz

#23 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

What's stopping the wizard team from getting blitzed? If the avatar duo can react to lightening, they can dodge spells any time any day..

If Voldemort can cast multiple spells (avada kedavra) and a fire worm without talking and without acting, when they need to use their hands, I think Voldemort has more impressive speed feats.

He has never shown anything compared to lightening speed.

Aragon, I will not have this argument with you, AGAIN.

Your crusades of anti-Harry Potter make me want to throw up.

Show me Ozai dodging someone who teleports at instant, which is faster then lightning because Ozai can not do lightning at instant. Voldemort can cast Avada Kedavra without speaking at instant, he can cast Imperio at instant, he can bombard Ozai with mental spells at instant. I mean, even Uncle Iroh has redirected lightning and he's as old as a mug (but he's strong I'l give him that)

#24 Posted by TheProwe (26 posts) - - Show Bio

The battle favors the HP wizards; the variety of magic available to them against a world that do not have such.. Ozai can cast lightning faster but teleportation counters such.. The former are faster but the difference is also countered by the plethora of magic in HP..

#25 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

What's stopping the wizard team from getting blitzed? If the avatar duo can react to lightening, they can dodge spells any time any day..

If Voldemort can cast multiple spells (avada kedavra) and a fire worm without talking and without acting, when they need to use their hands, I think Voldemort has more impressive speed feats.

He has never shown anything compared to lightening speed.

Aragon, I will not have this argument with you, AGAIN.

Your crusades of anti-Harry Potter make me want to throw up.

Show me Ozai dodging someone who teleports at instant, which is faster then lightning because Ozai can not do lightning at instant. Voldemort can cast Avada Kedavra without speaking at instant, he can cast Imperio at instant, he can bombard Ozai with mental spells at instant. I mean, even Uncle Iroh has redirected lightning and he's as old as a mug (but he's strong I'l give him that)

Crusades of anti-harry potter? You need to recheck the threads. I take the side which I feel has a better chance. For instance, voldemort's side in voldy vs spiderman thread and peter's side on harry vs spiderman thread. I'm not being a hater in any manner. Harry Potter is one of the earliest things I've read, and I'm still a great fan of it.

Having Teleportion =/= having reflexes comparable to it. 0:22 is what happens when you teleport against a quicker opponent. Imagine a lightening or firebolt instead of victor's hand though. The point is, someone who has lightening quick reflexes can strike far faster than any wizard in HP we know of. The maximum I've read about them is voldemort pointing his wand at harry so fast that harry couldn't even move his own. (Part 5, ministry of magic fight) But then again, lightening is leagues ahead of that. By the time Snape/Voldemort think if a spell, ozai would have hit them many times.

#26 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

Crusades of anti-harry potter? You need to recheck the threads. I take the side which I feel has a better chance. For instance, voldemort's side in voldy vs spiderman thread and peter's side on harry vs spiderman thread. I'm not being a hater in any manner. Harry Potter is one of the earliest things I've read, and I'm still a great fan of it.

Whatever. Everyone here agrees with me and not you, that says something..

Having Teleportion =/= having reflexes comparable to it. 0:22 is what happens when you teleport against a quicker opponent. Imagine a lightening or firebolt instead of victor's hand though.

I love how you try to compare other characters to Voldemort while not even using his feats. I watched a bit of that video: It's not Voldemort. Thus, I do not see how it's relevant to him. That's like using feats for Yoda in a debate of Spiderman vs Captain America. It makes no sense. Show me Ozai going at speeds faster then instant, faster then teleportation. Show me him resisting a mental assault or a Circuas curse (which even Harry Potter, who people like to pit against Voldemort, fell to)

Voldemort moved slowly forward and turned to face Harry. He raised his wand.

"Crucio!"

It was pain beyond anything Harry had ever experienced; his very bones were on fire; his head was surely splitting along his scar; his eyes were rolling madly in his head; he wanted it to end...to black out...to die...

And then it was gone. He was hanging limply in the ropes binding him to the headstone of Voldemort's father, looking up into those bright red eyes through a kind of mist. The night was ringing with the sound of the Death Eaters' laughter.

-Taken from: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Please, show me Ozai resisting Crucio. Show me, do not tell me, do not speculate, none of that: SHOW ME. Also we have not seen Ozai fight outside of Sozin's comet. He would probably be at the level of Uncle Iroh, for Iroh said if Zuko fails to defeat him, Iroh is the only one who can.

The point is, someone who has lightening quick reflexes can strike far faster than any wizard in HP we know of

It takes time to do lightning, you must move your hands. Voldemort has multiple options the moment Ozai goes in for attack: Crucio curse, Teleportation at instant, countering it with avada kedavra, Fiendfyre, etc. He can do all of those before Ozai can get out an attack, because as he was teleporting he was hitting Dumbledore and Dumbledore would have been out of luck if Fawkes or the Centaur hadn't saved him. But what if Voldemort has a silver shield? Not even Dumbledore's forceful spell could get past his silver shield, I do doubt lightning can. But again, that's speculation, just show me lightning surviving a transmutation shield and a defense charm. If you can, then I'l agree Ozai has a slight edge. If you can't, then I will keep on until we make a reasonable agreement on feats and NOT speculation.

The maximum I've read about them is voldemort pointing his wand at harry so fast that harry couldn't even move his own. (Part 5, ministry of magic fight) But then again, lightening is leagues ahead of that. By the time Snape/Voldemort think if a spell, ozai would have hit them many times.

1. Voldemort is reckless, he does not sit down with snape and say "Hey buddy, let's think of a spell..Well there's Legilimens..Ava-*Is hit by lightning*

No, it's not like that. Voldemort is bloodlusted, he was bloodlusted when he fought Dumbledore, he's going straight out with Avada Kedavra, which he doesn't even have to mutter as the books say. He'll be casting avada kedavra multiple times, maybe Crucio, etc.

2. Ozai must move to do lightning, Im not concerned about Azula. Snape can easily enter her mind and end her as she moves her hands. As what happened with Katara, when that girl did chi-blocking as she was going to bend the attack got to her first, and her attack slamped to the floor. That applies to any bender. What's stopping Azula's mind from being taken over? I mean, if Snape was in the poistion Zuko was in, he wouldn't have even challenged Azula. He would have just did Curcio then Sectumsempra on her, and maybe avada kedavra if Sectumsempra didn't kill her.

3. Snape and Voldemort would go all out. Show me Azula resisting mind control/telepathic assaults and I will agree that will not work. Also, what's stopping Snape from casting a jelly jinx? That'll render Azula's feet useless, leave her in panic, then he'll do Avada Kedavra

So Azula isn't even a factor.

Team 2 wins, maybe 6-7/10, but they still win mightily.

#27 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

Crusades of anti-harry potter? You need to recheck the threads. I take the side which I feel has a better chance. For instance, voldemort's side in voldy vs spiderman thread and peter's side on harry vs spiderman thread. I'm not being a hater in any manner. Harry Potter is one of the earliest things I've read, and I'm still a great fan of it.

Whatever. Everyone here agrees with me and not you, that says something..

At least I cleared the anti harry potter crusade. Accusation.

TheCerealKillz

YoungJustice

both said team 1 wins. Neon said team 2 wreaks, but the rest are giving 6-8/10 to team 2. So the vote is still well divided. So it doesn't say anything.

Having Teleportion =/= having reflexes comparable to it. 0:22 is what happens when you teleport against a quicker opponent. Imagine a lightening or firebolt instead of victor's hand though.

I love how you try to compare other characters to Voldemort while not even using his feats. I watched a bit of that video: It's not Voldemort. Thus, I do not see how it's relevant to him. That's like using feats for Yoda in a debate of Spiderman vs Captain America. It makes no sense. Show me Ozai going at speeds faster then instant, faster then teleportation. Show me him resisting a mental assault or a Circuas curse (which even Harry Potter, who people like to pit against Voldemort, fell to)

You don't get the point, do you? I am showing you that having teleportion doesn't mean you have reflexes to keep up. That is what happens to a teleporter who goes against faster characters. It's counter to the 'teleportion' argument. It is nowhere like using yoda's feats in spiderman thread, because I'm using a common ability. Teleportion. Spiderman doesn't use force, or yoda doesn't spin webs. It's for showing that you do not need teleportion level speed to counter teleporters.

They do not have enough time to pull off a teleportion/crucio/avada kedavra/fire storm. Because their enemies are fast enough to knock the daylights out of them before they do anything.

The point is, someone who has lightening quick reflexes can strike far faster than any wizard in HP we know of

It takes time to do lightning, you must move your hands. Voldemort has multiple options the moment Ozai goes in for attack: Crucio curse, Teleportation at instant, countering it with avada kedavra, Fiendfyre, etc. He can do all of those before Ozai can get out an attack, because as he was teleporting he was hitting Dumbledore and Dumbledore would have been out of luck if Fawkes or the Centaur hadn't saved him. But what if Voldemort has a silver shield? Not even Dumbledore's forceful spell could get past his silver shield, I do doubt lightning can. But again, that's speculation, just show me lightning surviving a transmutation shield and a defense charm. If you can, then I'l agree Ozai has a slight edge. If you can't, then I will keep on until we make a reasonable agreement on feats and NOT speculation.

If you are fast enough to dodge lightening, the amount of time taken to do the lightening move is far less than time required to think/say a spell. All those spells are meaningless, as the battle will be over by the time he can think of a spell, reckless or not.

The only thing team wizard has to deal with is keeping up with people who can dodge lightening. You're needlessly reminding me of what they can do. It isn't relevant. Because they are not fast enough to do it. Lightening speed>>hp speed.

#28 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

The maximum I've read about them is voldemort pointing his wand at harry so fast that harry couldn't even move his own. (Part 5, ministry of magic fight) But then again, lightening is leagues ahead of that. By the time Snape/Voldemort think if a spell, ozai would have hit them many times.

1. Voldemort is reckless, he does not sit down with snape and say "Hey buddy, let's think of a spell..Well there's Legilimens..Ava-*Is hit by lightning*

No, it's not like that. Voldemort is bloodlusted, he was bloodlusted when he fought Dumbledore, he's going straight out with Avada Kedavra, which he doesn't even have to mutter as the books say. He'll be casting avada kedavra multiple times, maybe Crucio, etc.

2. Ozai must move to do lightning, Im not concerned about Azula. Snape can easily enter her mind and end her as she moves her hands. As what happened with Katara, when that girl did chi-blocking as she was going to bend the attack got to her first, and her attack slamped to the floor. That applies to any bender. What's stopping Azula's mind from being taken over? I mean, if Snape was in the poistion Zuko was in, he wouldn't have even challenged Azula. He would have just did Curcio then Sectumsempra on her, and maybe avada kedavra if Sectumsempra didn't kill her.

3. Snape and Voldemort would go all out. Show me Azula resisting mind control/telepathic assaults and I will agree that will not work. Also, what's stopping Snape from casting a jelly jinx? That'll render Azula's feet useless, leave her in panic, then he'll do Avada Kedavra

So Azula isn't even a factor.

Team 2 wins, maybe 6-7/10, but they still win mightily.

I am replying separately because the comment is getting ridiculously wrong.

In all three of the scenarios, you're just saying what they will do if given an instant. Bloodlusted azula/ozai are not giving them that. What's stopping snape/tom from doing the said things?one word. Blitz. The same argument. There is no one in HP who's shown to dodge lightening or something moving at that speed. Repeat: No one.

#29 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

both said team 1 wins. Neon said team 2 wreaks, but the rest are giving 6-8/10 to team 2. So the vote is still well divided. So it doesn't say anything.

I won the debate against Cereal. But I like something about you, you ag on even after I give you a wall of post with facts and debunking your claims. I like that. It just gives me more energy.

You don't get the point, do you? I am showing you that having teleportion doesn't mean you have reflexes to keep up

Voldemort kept casting Avada kedavras (without speaking) and multiple other things at Dumbledore, and if Dumbledore hadn't had that centaur or the fawkes he would have most likely died. He was too much for Dumbledore for a short time, he teleported at instant. Show me Azula or Ozai reacting to someone who can fire spells and teleport at instant. Simply show me and I'l believe. Their speed isn't impressive, it's Human speed if anything. They've never EVER reacted to someone who wielded a killing curse and can react at instant. Give me a good reason Aragon.

That is what happens to a teleporter who goes against faster characters. It's counter to the 'teleportion' argument. It is nowhere like using yoda's feats in spiderman thread, because I'm using a common ability. Teleportion. Spiderman doesn't use force, or yoda doesn't spin webs. It's for showing that you do not need teleportion level speed to counter teleporters.

Teleportation is at instant. Show me Azula reacting to something fast as instant. Show me Ozai reacting to something as fast as instant. Just show me it and I'l give the battle to them. If you can't, then Im sorry but: They lose terribly. I do not know why I made this match, I thought this was even now when I look into it I see Voldemort outclasses them in every way possible, compromising on powers.

They do not have enough time to pull off a teleportion/crucio/avada kedavra/fire storm. Because their enemies are fast enough to knock the daylights out of them before they do anything.

Show me Ozai or Azula going faster then a human can run, then we'll talk.

If you are fast enough to dodge lightening, the amount of time taken to do the lightening move is far less than time required to think/say a spell

As I said, they do not need to say Avada Kedavra. Snape may, but he has mental spells that he doesn't need to utter. Voldemort wields an INSTANT killing curse on his wand. He should have no problem casting it without thinking/saying.

All those spells are meaningless, as the battle will be over by the time he can think of a spell, reckless or not.

They have prep, morals are off, bloodlust on, Voldemort doesn't hold back and sends avada kedavra in instantly without thinking. He did not think when he bombarded Dumbledore with spells, he did.

The only thing team wizard has to deal with is keeping up with people who can dodge lightening. You're needlessly reminding me of what they can do. It isn't relevant. Because they are not fast enough to do it. Lightening speed>>hp speed.

1. Show me lightning passing a transmutation shield.

2. Show me lightning going as fast as instant

#30 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

In all three of the scenarios, you're just saying what they will do if given an instant. Bloodlusted azula/ozai are not giving them that. What's stopping snape/tom from doing the said things?one word. Blitz.

Show me Ozai or Azula going faster then a human..

The same argument. There is no one in HP who's shown to dodge lightening or something moving at that speed. Repeat: No one.

Voldemort's teleportation goes at instant and he has fired lightning before.

#31 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

In all three of the scenarios, you're just saying what they will do if given an instant. Bloodlusted azula/ozai are not giving them that. What's stopping snape/tom from doing the said things?one word. Blitz.

Show me Ozai or Azula going faster then a human..

The same argument. There is no one in HP who's shown to dodge lightening or something moving at that speed. Repeat: No one.

Voldemort's teleportation goes at instant and he has fired lightning before.

Dodging lightening is far faster than a human, (at least I can't dodge lightening lol)

As I've said before, having teleportion spell does not mean he has speed to keep up with it. And firing lightening does not mean you can dodge it. (I've honestly forgotten where he uses lightening, though. Remind me?)

both said team 1 wins. Neon said team 2 wreaks, but the rest are giving 6-8/10 to team 2. So the vote is still well divided. So it doesn't say anything.

I won the debate against Cereal. But I like something about you, you ag on even after I give you a wall of post with facts and debunking your claims. I like that. It just gives me more energy.

Happy to be of help :)

But as for the rest of your arguments, you're misunderstanding my point.

1.You're saying voldemort can teleport. That doesn't speak of anything about his reflexes. I showed the video to you for a reason. Even victor was able to counter instant teleporter effectively. And he's not even a bullet timer. Lightening timer >> bullet timer. As speed of bullet is about 900-1500 meter per sec. That of lightening is about 6000 kilo meter per second, low end (nearly 4k times faster) Someone who can dodge that can easily blitz a wizard before he has a chance to teleport. (Note: Because we don't know if the wizards are even bullet timers. Don't say they can teleport. Teleportion doesn't tell how quick your reflexes are)

2. Now about crucio, legiliminus, impero, getting through the silver shield, countering avada kedavra (pardon the spellings if wrong). How many spells harry knew, when he faced voldemort in part 5? Disarming one, reducto, stunning, you agree he had a huge variety. But why couldn't he use a single spell? Because voldemort struck far faster than he could use one. Why couldn't snape use even one uttered/non uttered spell against voldemort? Because the opponent was far faster. Similar situation is here. We don't know if the wizards are even bullet timers, I am positive that harry isn't, unless you've something to say. And you've put them against not one, but two lightening timers. Ozai or Azula have no need of being able to resist anything. They can take the wizard duo out before they even have time to do something. (similar to what happened in the two examples I've given you.)

On a side note: Even the fastest humans can't run over 15 meter per sec. That is not going to be enough to dodge lightening, right?

#32 Posted by Sylvain (1640 posts) - - Show Bio

Rage is in the air guys?

#33 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

Dodging lightening is far faster than a human, (at least I can't dodge lightening lol)

As I've said before, having teleportion spell does not mean he has speed to keep up with it. And firing lightening does not mean you can dodge it. (I've honestly forgotten where he uses lightening, though. Remind me?)

The only time Ozai even uses lightning is after the Eclipse was over and Zuko was leaving to go help the Avatar. And guess what, with HUMAN like reflexes Zuko redirected it. Otherwise, Ozai has no feats with it.

1.You're saying voldemort can teleport. That doesn't speak of anything about his reflexes. I showed the video to you for a reason. Even victor was able to counter instant teleporter effectively. And he's not even a bullet timer.

Im asking you to show me Ozai dodging a teleporting near-immortal being that wields and instant killing curse and can teleport at every instant. Those are reflexes, show me Ozai dodging/tanking that. It's not that hard. Ozai has human speed, not blitz speed.

As speed of bullet is about 900-1500 meter per sec. That of lightening is about 6000 kilo meter per second, low end (nearly 4k times faster) Someone who can dodge that can easily blitz a wizard before he has a chance to teleport. (Note: Because we don't know if the wizards are even bullet timers. Don't say they can teleport. Teleportion doesn't tell how quick your reflexes are)

This is opinion. This is like saying Azula and Ozai can blitz yoda. They do not have above human speed or above human reflexes, if they do then please SHOW me the source that leads you to believe this. Show me someone from Avatar dodging a downward lightning strike. You can't, all they have dodged are blasts of lightning and lightning that Azula would take time to charge. Voldemort or Snape could teleport from that as Azula or Ozai start to move their hands to fire something. It comes at instant, what don't you get? Show me Azula and Ozai having above human reflexes and speed. And I think firing a spell at instant, teleporting at instant, are above-human reflexes.

2. Now about crucio, legiliminus, impero, getting through the silver shield, countering avada kedavra (pardon the spellings if wrong). How many spells harry knew, when he faced voldemort in part 5? Disarming one, reducto, stunning, you agree he had a huge variety. But why couldn't he use a single spell? Because voldemort struck far faster than he could use one. Why couldn't snape use even one uttered/non uttered spell against voldemort? Because the opponent was far faster.

1. I agree, Harry had a large variety of spells (he was master death for GODS sakes) And Expelliarmus (disarming) can be deflected just as easily as any other spell. But yes Voldemort did move much faster.

2. Even if he did it wouldn't have worked. Voldemort is a mastered Occlumens and legilimens, he can easily shield his mind from those attacks, Aragon. I'd think you'd know this. Speed was a factor, but Occlumency and Legilimency were main factors.

Similar situation is here. We don't know if the wizards are even bullet timers, I am positive that harry isn't, unless you've something to say. And you've put them against not one, but two lightening timers. Ozai or Azula have no need of being able to resist anything. They can take the wizard duo out before they even have time to do something. (similar to what happened in the two examples I've given you.)

1. Show me Azula or Ozai blitzing anyone above human speeds.

2. Show me Ozai or Azula resisting an instant crucio or killing curse, and show me them dodging people who can fly and who can teleport at instant.

3. Again, show me them speedblitzing anyone. You have your own calculations, now I want source from a comic/book/show. If you can't give me those sources then your argument has no ground to stand on. So show me them going above human speed and avoiding everything I just mentioned.

On a side note: Even the fastest humans can't run over 15 meter per sec. That is not going to be enough to dodge lightening, right?

Azula has redirected lightning before, not dodged it. Show me Ozai or Azula going above human speed.

#34 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

Dodging lightening is far faster than a human, (at least I can't dodge lightening lol)

As I've said before, having teleportion spell does not mean he has speed to keep up with it. And firing lightening does not mean you can dodge it. (I've honestly forgotten where he uses lightening, though. Remind me?)

The only time Ozai even uses lightning is after the Eclipse was over and Zuko was leaving to go help the Avatar. And guess what, with HUMAN like reflexes Zuko redirected it. Otherwise, Ozai has no feats with it.

Human like reflexes can dodge lightening? where are you getting the idea? He has used lightening thrice. But I'm not saying he has to zap the two with lightening. He could just knock them out if he punches at this speed.

1.You're saying voldemort can teleport. That doesn't speak of anything about his reflexes. I showed the video to you for a reason. Even victor was able to counter instant teleporter effectively. And he's not even a bullet timer.

Im asking you to show me Ozai dodging a teleporting near-immortal being that wields and instant killing curse and can teleport at every instant. Those are reflexes, show me Ozai dodging/tanking that. It's not that hard. Ozai has human speed, not blitz speed.

How am I supposed to show you ozai fighting a teleporter? I have given you a parallel. Victor, who isn't even bullet timer dealt with a teleporter pretty easily. Someone who is lightening timer should do that much easier.

As speed of bullet is about 900-1500 meter per sec. That of lightening is about 6000 kilo meter per second, low end (nearly 4k times faster) Someone who can dodge that can easily blitz a wizard before he has a chance to teleport. (Note: Because we don't know if the wizards are even bullet timers. Don't say they can teleport. Teleportion doesn't tell how quick your reflexes are)

This is opinion. This is like saying Azula and Ozai can blitz yoda. They do not have above human speed or above human reflexes, if they do then please SHOW me the source that leads you to believe this. Show me someone from Avatar dodging a downward lightning strike. You can't, all they have dodged are blasts of lightning and lightning that Azula would take time to charge. Voldemort or Snape could teleport from that as Azula or Ozai start to move their hands to fire something. It comes at instant, what don't you get? Show me Azula and Ozai having above human reflexes and speed. And I think firing a spell at instant, teleporting at instant, are above-human reflexes.

speed of lightening and bullets are not my opinion. How many times they have dodged lightening? Aang has done once, zuko even intercepted it once. What has the direction of lightening has to do with anything? If dodging lightening does not put them above normal human speed, what kind of feats are you looking for? I am not going against yoda right now. Maybe another time.

2. Now about crucio, legiliminus, impero, getting through the silver shield, countering avada kedavra (pardon the spellings if wrong). How many spells harry knew, when he faced voldemort in part 5? Disarming one, reducto, stunning, you agree he had a huge variety. But why couldn't he use a single spell? Because voldemort struck far faster than he could use one. Why couldn't snape use even one uttered/non uttered spell against voldemort? Because the opponent was far faster.

1. I agree, Harry had a large variety of spells (he was master death for GODS sakes) And Expelliarmus (disarming) can be deflected just as easily as any other spell. But yes Voldemort did move much faster.

2. Even if he did it wouldn't have worked. Voldemort is a mastered Occlumens and legilimens, he can easily shield his mind from those attacks, Aragon. I'd think you'd know this. Speed was a factor, but Occlumency and Legilimency were main factors.

at least you got one point of what I'm trying to say. Having a wide arsenal doesn't help if you are facing someone whose reactions are far above yours.

Similar situation is here. We don't know if the wizards are even bullet timers, I am positive that harry isn't, unless you've something to say. And you've put them against not one, but two lightening timers. Ozai or Azula have no need of being able to resist anything. They can take the wizard duo out before they even have time to do something. (similar to what happened in the two examples I've given you.)

1. Show me Azula or Ozai blitzing anyone above human speeds.

2. Show me Ozai or Azula resisting an instant crucio or killing curse, and show me them dodging people who can fly and who can teleport at instant.

3. Again, show me them speedblitzing anyone. You have your own calculations, now I want source from a comic/book/show. If you can't give me those sources then your argument has no ground to stand on. So show me them going above human speed and avoiding everything I just mentioned.

On a side note: Even the fastest humans can't run over 15 meter per sec. That is not going to be enough to dodge lightening, right?

Azula has redirected lightning before, not dodged it. Show me Ozai or Azula going above human speed.

We've seen Ozai fight only aang, who is fast enough to dodge lightening, and zuko himself is about the same range. So there is no question of blitzing either, because both sides had nearly equal reflexes. But what is stopping them from blitzing some one who doesn't have enough speed? Like in the current case?

And about the curses you keep mentioning time and again, my point is, the same way harry was not able to do any spell because voldemort was far faster than him, their huge variety of spells is worth nothing here. Having a killing curse doesn't help if you get the daylights knocked out of you lightening fast (Pardon the pun).

If you are putting the characters in a blood lusted fight, they are going to use their full speed.

Now there are a few things I'm not getting your argument:

1. The above human speed: I am showing that they can dodge or redirect lightening (and you're not disputing that). Neither normal or peak human characters are fast enough to do that. As I said, even dodging bullets is quite a feat, and we're talking about something that's thousands of times faster.

2. The sources: You have to tell me what needs back up exactly. Just 'no sources' isn't enough. Are you saying lightening isn't as fast? or are you saying they didn't dodge lightening? mention it.

And lastly, give me good reflex feats of any wizard from harry, if anyone has dodged bullets, or something like that. Something to quantify their reflexes. I don't remember anyone being even quick enough to dodge bullet or something. If you put them against lightening timers, they are getting blitzed. Simple enough.

#35 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

Human like reflexes can dodge lightening? where are you getting the idea? He has used lightening thrice. But I'm not saying he has to zap the two with lightening. He could just knock them out if he punches at this speed.

He used it once to my knowledge. Once.

How am I supposed to show you ozai fighting a teleporter? I have given you a parallel. Victor, who isn't even bullet timer dealt with a teleporter pretty easily. Someone who is lightening timer should do that much easier.

Alright so that's like giving me a parallel feat for superman and using it for Batman. Show me Ozai fighting someone like Voldemort who wields and instant killing curse and teleports at instant. Show me it, if you don't show me these sources Im going to eventually ignore these type of comments.

speed of lightening and bullets are not my opinion. How many times they have dodged lightening? Aang has done once, zuko even intercepted it once. What has the direction of lightening has to do with anything? If dodging lightening does not put them above normal human speed, what kind of feats are you looking for? I am not going against yoda right now. Maybe another time.

Aang did it, Zuko did it: I WANT FEATS FOR OZAI NOT FOR AANG OR ZUKO! (Aang in the avatar state would win against Voldemort BTW, if he was bloodlusted)

at least you got one point of what I'm trying to say. Having a wide arsenal doesn't help if you are facing someone whose reactions are far above yours.

I want to see Ozai and Azula reacting at instant. Will you do that for me?

We've seen Ozai fight only aang, who is fast enough to dodge lightening, and zuko himself is about the same range. So there is no question of blitzing either, because both sides had nearly equal reflexes. But what is stopping them from blitzing some one who doesn't have enough speed? Like in the current case?

I would say Ozai is bloodlusted in this. He's at full power. That blast of fire he delivers at voldemort can be taken care of through his transfiguration shield or something of the sort. So you see Aang must move to use his fire, so much Ozai. The thing that "amps" his speed is the blasts of fire he can do, which is not impressive. That is still human like speed and is pretty slow. He continues to use the fire as rocket boosters, again, it's not impressive speed wise. If anything, and now Im giving my opinion from this video, that speed is nothing. As he's speeding to Voldemort, Voldemort can simply cast Crucio and kill him with an avada kedavra.

Now you proved me wrong, in this video at 3:00 Ozai uses lightning, so he's used it more then once. Alright. What's stopping Voldemort from reflecting lightning? Also, at 3:28 Aang had reaction time to block that attack, what's stopping Voldemort's shield from blocking a simillar attack or simply casting a hrydrokenetic spell to suffocate Ozai and block any fire attacks?

3:55 there's that majestic speed you keep talking about. If Voldemort was in that situation he would have cast Crucio, slammed Ozai into the River, and use a hydrokenetic spell to suffocate him. But there's that majestic speed that even Aang had time to run from. It's majestic. Not.

4:30 Voldemort would not be hiding at this point, he'd be teleporting and jacking up Ozai with mental spells.

Ozai can probably do some of that majestic speed, but he's not at full power.

06:18 Where's the majestic speedblitzing Ozai you describe? I don't see him speedblitzing Aang.

06:50 Ozai is being thrown around now, Voldemort would probably be throwing him around more enjoyably at this point and making him eat his hands.

06:54 Oh my, there's that majestic speed again, which isn't even close to a Superman, Bullet, or, heck, a shotgun shell speedblitz.

07:10 Oh my, there's that majestic speed, which isn't even a speedblitz.

07:24 Wow, his majestic speedblitz didn't save him from the WATER which isn't even as fast as a bullet. You can fire a bullet in a wave without it being able to dodge.

07:37 Imagine this being voldemort's transfiguration shield, except Voldemort's shield has flowers going through it.

08:00 Majestic speed.

08:37 Aang took away his majestic speedblitz by bending it away. What's stopping Voldemort from turning his majestic speedblitz into a fire worm then having 50 fire worms eat both Azula and him? Nothing it.

08:47 Proof his majesticness can be stopped by a hydrokenetic spell

Alright. I saw nothing in their but his fire amp speed that is above a human reflex. Nothing. So the fact is, your argument has no ground to stand on.

And about the curses you keep mentioning time and again, my point is, the same way harry was not able to do any spell because voldemort was far faster than him, their huge variety of spells is worth nothing here. Having a killing curse doesn't help if you get the daylights knocked out of you lightening fast (Pardon the pun).

If you can show me a video of Ozai or Azula going lightning fast, please, go ahead.

If you are putting the characters in a blood lusted fight, they are going to use their full speed.

I just showed you Ozai's majestic speed at full power, and my my my it could speedblitz Superman! No. Spiderman would shame Ozai to be honest and Voldemort would simply bombard Spiderman with crucio and Imperio until he has had his fun.

1. The above human speed: I am showing that they can dodge or redirect lightening (and you're not disputing that). Neither normal or peak human characters are fast enough to do that. As I said, even dodging bullets is quite a feat, and we're talking about something that's thousands of times faster.

But in that video, Ozai did not dodge lightning, in fact he looked like he messed his pants when Aang pointed the lightning AT him. He only redirected it, ONE time. He used it, 2 times.

2. The sources: You have to tell me what needs back up exactly. Just 'no sources' isn't enough. Are you saying lightening isn't as fast? or are you saying they didn't dodge lightening? mention it.

Im saying give me sources that in Avatar the last airbender Ozai is as fast as lightning when he had time to react.

And lastly, give me good reflex feats of any wizard from harry,

With pleasure. Before I go to my resources Ozai or Azula wouldn't be able to shoot lightning

It's like trying to shoot at a blur that can change direction on a dime. Which Voldemort can do. Dumbledore moving at a fast reflex:

Voldemort raised his wand and another jet of green light streaked at Dumbledore, who turned and was gone in a whirling of his cloak. Next second, he had reappeared behind Voldemort and waved his wand towards the remnants of the fountain.

-Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 36

Show me Ozai reacting and moving at a second please.

A long thin flame flew from the tip; it wrapped itself around Voldemort, shield and all. For a moment, it seemed Dumbledore had won, but then the fiery rope became a serpent, which relinquished its hold on Voldemort at once and turned, hissing furiously, to face Dumbledore.

Voldemort vanished; the snake reared from the floor, ready to strike--

There was a burst of flame in midair above Dumbledore just as Voldemort reappeared, standing on the plinth in the middle of the pool where so recently the five statues had stood.

-Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 36

But even as he shouted, another jet of green light flew at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake struck--

Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide and swallowed the jet of green light whole: he burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. At the same moment, Dumbledore brandished his wand in one long, fluid movement--the snake, which had been an instant from sinking its fangs into him, flew high into the air and vanished in a wisp of dark smoke;

-Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 36

So at the same moment an curse was flying at him, Fawkes takes that then the Fiendfyre which was an INSTANT, it says INSTANT, an INSTANT from killing Dumbledore he quickly vanquished it. Once again, you said a wizard from HP, Dumbledore is a wizard and Dumbledore reacted at instant. Show me Ozai or Azula doing something or reacting at instant.

Snape and Voldemort win.

#36 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

Human like reflexes can dodge lightening? where are you getting the idea? He has used lightening thrice. But I'm not saying he has to zap the two with lightening. He could just knock them out if he punches at this speed.

He used it once to my knowledge. Once.

Not once. Far more times: start at 2:52 in your own video: Aang dodges it four times, and redirects the fifth.

And there's zuko. Which makes six. And I'm not talking about having lightening. It's dodging/redirecting it that is important. They have the reflexes to keep up with lightening. I'm NOT pointing out to having or using lightening. I'm pointing towards the reflexes. Stressing on the point.

How am I supposed to show you ozai fighting a teleporter? I have given you a parallel. Victor, who isn't even bullet timer dealt with a teleporter pretty easily. Someone who is lightening timer should do that much easier.

Alright so that's like giving me a parallel feat for superman and using it for Batman. Show me Ozai fighting someone like Voldemort who wields and instant killing curse and teleports at instant. Show me it, if you don't show me these sources Im going to eventually ignore these type of comments.

Couldn't be more wrong. It's like showing the feat of batman's reflexes and using it for superman, because superman is the faster of the duo. Here, ozai: lightening timer. Victor: Bullet timer. Ozai: lightening timer. Bullet timer can easily counter teleporter. It's a piece of cake for lightening timer. (because lightening is far faster than bullet)

speed of lightening and bullets are not my opinion. How many times they have dodged lightening? Aang has done once, zuko even intercepted it once. What has the direction of lightening has to do with anything? If dodging lightening does not put them above normal human speed, what kind of feats are you looking for? I am not going against yoda right now. Maybe another time.

Aang did it, Zuko did it: I WANT FEATS FOR OZAI NOT FOR AANG OR ZUKO! (Aang in the avatar state would win against Voldemort BTW, if he was bloodlusted)

I'm only pointing out to the reflexes. As you're quoting the instances from video, I assume you have seen it.As you can see, Ozai is far faster than Aang. He has him by the ropes till he goes into avatar state.

at least you got one point of what I'm trying to say. Having a wide arsenal doesn't help if you are facing someone whose reactions are far above yours.

I want to see Ozai and Azula reacting at instant. Will you do that for me?

depends on how long the instant is. Lightening in intself is considered to strike in an instant. (I don't think I need to prove something that basic)

I would say Ozai is bloodlusted in this. He's at full power. That blast of fire he delivers at voldemort can be taken care of through his transfiguration shield or something of the sort. So you see Aang must move to use his fire, so much Ozai. The thing that "amps" his speed is the blasts of fire he can do, which is not impressive. That is still human like speed and is pretty slow. He continues to use the fire as rocket boosters, again, it's not impressive speed wise. If anything, and now Im giving my opinion from this video, that speed is nothing. As he's speeding to Voldemort, Voldemort can simply cast Crucio and kill him with an avada kedavra.

Now you proved me wrong, in this video at 3:00 Ozai uses lightning, so he's used it more then once. Alright. What's stopping Voldemort from reflecting lightning? Also, at 3:28 Aang had reaction time to block that attack, what's stopping Voldemort's shield from blocking a simillar attack or simply casting a hrydrokenetic spell to suffocate Ozai and block any fire attacks?

3:55 there's that majestic speed you keep talking about. If Voldemort was in that situation he would have cast Crucio, slammed Ozai into the River, and use a hydrokenetic spell to suffocate him. But there's that majestic speed that even Aang had time to run from. It's majestic. Not.

4:30 Voldemort would not be hiding at this point, he'd be teleporting and jacking up Ozai with mental spells.

Ozai can probably do some of that majestic speed, but he's not at full power.

06:18 Where's the majestic speedblitzing Ozai you describe? I don't see him speedblitzing Aang.

06:50 Ozai is being thrown around now, Voldemort would probably be throwing him around more enjoyably at this point and making him eat his hands.

06:54 Oh my, there's that majestic speed again, which isn't even close to a Superman, Bullet, or, heck, a shotgun shell speedblitz.

07:10 Oh my, there's that majestic speed, which isn't even a speedblitz.

07:24 Wow, his majestic speedblitz didn't save him from the WATER which isn't even as fast as a bullet. You can fire a bullet in a wave without it being able to dodge.

07:37 Imagine this being voldemort's transfiguration shield, except Voldemort's shield has flowers going through it.

08:00 Majestic speed.

08:37 Aang took away his majestic speedblitz by bending it away. What's stopping Voldemort from turning his majestic speedblitz into a fire worm then having 50 fire worms eat both Azula and him? Nothing it.

08:47 Proof his majesticness can be stopped by a hydrokenetic spell

You are not noting one thing. All these things are done by Aang. Who has consistently proved to be fast enough to dodge lightening. Voldemort is not a lightening timer, at best a bullet timer, maybe. (I am granting that much for not insulting the character, you don't need to prove that. But you'll have to prove it above that.)

Now about the moments you are mentioning. You are not seeing who his opponent is. See the first half of the fight, he's about as fast, if not faster than aang. Aang's skills and reflexes increase drastically after becoming avatar. Any lightening timer is pretty much doomed against that. Also, you seem to have a misunderstanding about 'speedblitzing' You can blitz someone who is much slower than you, not the other way. Avatar Aang is faster than ozai, aang is good enough to keep up with him. Azula and zuko keep up very well with aang, so they are in the nearly same reflex range. Ozai cannot dodge aang because aang has enough speed to keep up with him. Normal bullet timers though are definitely getting blitzed. (As shown previously, about 4000 times faster, that is one hell of a speed blitz.)

And about the curses you keep mentioning time and again, my point is, the same way harry was not able to do any spell because voldemort was far faster than him, their huge variety of spells is worth nothing here. Having a killing curse doesn't help if you get the daylights knocked out of you lightening fast (Pardon the pun).

If you can show me a video of Ozai or Azula going lightning fast, please, go ahead.

If you are putting the characters in a blood lusted fight, they are going to use their full speed.

I just showed you Ozai's majestic speed at full power, and my my my it could speedblitz Superman! No. Spiderman would shame Ozai to be honest and Voldemort would simply bombard Spiderman with crucio and Imperio until he has had his fun.

1. The above human speed: I am showing that they can dodge or redirect lightening (and you're not disputing that). Neither normal or peak human characters are fast enough to do that. As I said, even dodging bullets is quite a feat, and we're talking about something that's thousands of times faster.

But in that video, Ozai did not dodge lightning, in fact he looked like he messed his pants when Aang pointed the lightning AT him. He only redirected it, ONE time. He used it, 2 times.

2. The sources: You have to tell me what needs back up exactly. Just 'no sources' isn't enough. Are you saying lightening isn't as fast? or are you saying they didn't dodge lightening? mention it.

Im saying give me sources that in Avatar the last airbender Ozai is as fast as lightning when he had time to react.

about these, see the above points. I can't stress upon the pre avatar state battle enough. Watch it as many times you want, you can see ozai having a slight advantage in reflexes. (To the point he forced aang into complete defensive rock barrier. Entirely off-topic: Ozai's laugh there is classic 'hahahaha! you are weak!'). So ozai's speed is nearly equal, probably more than non avatar aang, which qualifies him as a lightening timer. You can also watch the season 2 finale of aang, zuko and azula. Zuko has shown to react to lightening speed, and azula was pretty much stomping all over him in the first season. They step in the club as well. Again: What you have to see in the video is ozai has at least the same reflexes as aang, a lightening timer.

Also, as already stated, I am on Voldemort's side when he is against spiderman. As spiderman is in bullet range. Not here.

And lastly, give me good reflex feats of any wizard from harry,

With pleasure. Before I go to my resources Ozai or Azula wouldn't be able to shoot lightning

It's like trying to shoot at a blur that can change direction on a dime. Which Voldemort can do. Dumbledore moving at a fast reflex:

Voldemort raised his wand and another jet of green light streaked at Dumbledore, who turned and was gone in a whirling of his cloak. Next second, he had reappeared behind Voldemort and waved his wand towards the remnants of the fountain.

-Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 36

Show me Ozai reacting and moving at a second please.

A long thin flame flew from the tip; it wrapped itself around Voldemort, shield and all. For a moment, it seemed Dumbledore had won, but then the fiery rope became a serpent, which relinquished its hold on Voldemort at once and turned, hissing furiously, to face Dumbledore.

Voldemort vanished; the snake reared from the floor, ready to strike--

There was a burst of flame in midair above Dumbledore just as Voldemort reappeared, standing on the plinth in the middle of the pool where so recently the five statues had stood.

-Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 36

But even as he shouted, another jet of green light flew at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake struck--

Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide and swallowed the jet of green light whole: he burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. At the same moment, Dumbledore brandished his wand in one long, fluid movement--the snake, which had been an instant from sinking its fangs into him, flew high into the air and vanished in a wisp of dark smoke;

-Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Chapter 36

So at the same moment an curse was flying at him, Fawkes takes that then the Fiendfyre which was an INSTANT, it says INSTANT, an INSTANT from killing Dumbledore he quickly vanquished it. Once again, you said a wizard from HP, Dumbledore is a wizard and Dumbledore reacted at instant. Show me Ozai or Azula doing something or reacting at instant.

Snape and Voldemort win.

Next second? you know lightening can travel 6k km per second, right? Appearing behind some one in next second is absolutely worthless against someone who had a lightening timer on ropes.

As for the other one. An 'instant' away from sinking teeth. We have no idea how much it implies. Maybe a second as in previous one? Maybe half? Maybe two? Maybe a millisecond? It's nothing concrete. If it was a bullet or something, it'd mean something. But here, it doesn't tell us anything at all.

#37 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks: To make things easier, I'll sum up two points on which my argument stands.

1. Aang and zuko are both fast enough to dodge lightening, which is about 6k km/s (minimum level), about 4k times faster than bullets. So their reflexes are that faster in proportion to bullet timer. Victor, who is not even a bullet timer, or beast, a near bullet timer maybe, have successfully fought against teleporters with that level of speed. So, someone who is far faster than them (1000 times, and that's being generous) should easily blitz bullet timers, whether they have teleportion or not.

(Don't attack me over this, I'm helping you here: Goku is far above a bullet timer, he was faster than lightening when he was a child, so they will not be able to keep up with him after that. He doesn't even need IT to blitz them, because he's consistently shown to be far faster. You have to find something similar for either snape, or voldemort to beat this argument down. There you go.)

2. Back to the time harry faced voldemort in ministry, harry was unable to use any spell because his enemy was maybe.. twice or thrice faster than him. Here we're using a lightening timer. I don't need to say how much faster that is again. So from crucio to jelly legs, no curse is going to help. In the same way it didn't help harry. as gap between lightening timer's reflex voldemort's >> that between harry's reflex and voldemorts.

#38 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

And there's zuko. Which makes six. And I'm not talking about having lightening. It's dodging/redirecting it that is important. They have the reflexes to keep up with lightening. I'm NOT pointing out to having or using lightening. I'm pointing towards the reflexes. Stressing on the point.

Voldemort teleports at instant, Voldemort reacts at instant, Ozai clearly moves his hands to use his lightning which is not INSTANT. You don't know what instant is do you? Ozai's lightning is not instant, thus Voldemort can react and send a possible spell against it before it can hit him. That's the point.

Couldn't be more wrong. It's like showing the feat of batman's reflexes and using it for superman, because superman is the faster of the duo. Here, ozai: lightening timer. Victor: Bullet timer. Ozai: lightening timer. Bullet timer can easily counter teleporter. It's a piece of cake for lightening timer. (because lightening is far faster than bullet)

I don't want feats for Victor, I don't want feats for Victor at all.

SHOW ME OZAI REACTING AT INSTANT, AND SHOW ME OZAI REACTING TO A INSTANT TELEPORTING BORDERLINE IMMORTAL DARK WIZARD. If you can't do that, Im giving up, Kthanks (:

I'm only pointing out to the reflexes. As you're quoting the instances from video, I assume you have seen it.As you can see, Ozai is far faster than Aang. He has him by the ropes till he goes into avatar state.

But he did not speedblitz him. The majestic speed came from a fire amp, he does not have Sozin's comet and is not at full power here. Thus nothing indicates he would have the speed to react instantly to anything Voldemort throws.

depends on how long the instant is. Lightening in intself is considered to strike in an instant. (I don't think I need to prove something that basic)

Instant is instant. Let's see what the dictionairy must say about this (Yes, I need to read the great book of words over this idiotic battle that you keep pestering me about)

Happening or coming immediately: "instant dismissal".

-DICTIONAIRY.COM

How fast is immediately?

  1. At once; instantly.
  2. Without any intervening time or space: "sitting immediately behind me".

Alright, so instantly means without any intervening time or space, so show me Ozai reacting without any intervening time or space because we know he can't react/fire that fast, Voldemort can teleport that fast and cast a instant killing curse that fast.

You are not noting one thing. All these things are done by Aang. Who has consistently proved to be fast enough to dodge lightening. Voldemort is not a lightening timer, at best a bullet timer, maybe. (I am granting that much for not insulting the character, you don't need to prove that. But you'll have to prove it above that.)

I'l agree, lightning in the real world can come at instant. Lightning in the Avatar world requires the moving of hands and charging of energies which is within 3-4 seconds. Voldemort can teleport before that, strike before that, fire a killing curse instantly before that.

I have proven that.

Watch it as many times you want, you can see ozai having a slight advantage in reflexes. (To the point he forced aang into complete defensive rock barrier. Entirely off-topic: Ozai's laugh there is classic 'hahahaha! you are weak!'). So ozai's speed is nearly equal, probably more than non avatar aang, which qualifies him as a lightening timer.

Still, none of the stuff there was at instant. None of them cast at instant. Plus the moment Ozai says "Hahaha you are so weak" to Voldemort, which is In character for him to do, Crucio or Imperio is happening and Ozai is going down, FAST.

Now about the moments you are mentioning. You are not seeing who his opponent is. See the first half of the fight, he's about as fast, if not faster than aang. Aang's skills and reflexes increase drastically after becoming avatar. Any lightening timer is pretty much doomed against that. Also, you seem to have a misunderstanding about 'speedblitzing' You can blitz someone who is much slower than you, not the other way. Avatar Aang is faster than ozai, aang is good enough to keep up with him. Azula and zuko keep up very well with aang, so they are in the nearly same reflex range. Ozai cannot dodge aang because aang has enough speed to keep up with him. Normal bullet timers though are definitely getting blitzed. (As shown previously, about 4000 times faster, that is one hell of a speed blitz.)

I am not disputing any of this. Except these things

1. "Blitzing anyone slower then you" Ozai, once again, has gone at human speed. Voldemort can go at instant. That argument still stands and your not disputing it at all. Show me Ozai blitzing him based on feats in the show. His majestic speed is that fire, which was drastically powerful during the comet and at this time would probably go slow due to Ozai not being at full power, giving Voldemort time to turn the fire he's speeding at into a Fienfyre and have it eat Ozai. Show me Ozai going at instant, teleporting at instant, and reacting at instant. If you can't then your out of luck. And you can't because I've seen every season, every episode (Im sure you have also) and I have never saw Ozai "speedblitz" anyone except in the battle of sozin's comet where his speed was drastically amped.

Next second? you know lightening can travel 6k km per second, right? Appearing behind some one in next second is absolutely worthless against someone who had a lightening timer on ropes.

Where does it mention next second? It mentions a moment, at the same moment a killing curse is flying at him and a fiendfyre is about to rip him apart Dumbledore handles it with ease. Lets look at the definition for moment:

  1. An exact point in time.

There you go. No time or space invovled, that moment; please don't make me look at the definition for exact.

Also, Ozai's lightning and real world lightning are different. Once again, show me his lightning going at instant. Show.Me.It. If you can't show me sources I;'l keep responding to all your posts saying "I want sources"

As for the other one. An 'instant' away from sinking teeth. We have no idea how much it implies. Maybe a second as in previous one? Maybe half? Maybe two? Maybe a millisecond? It's nothing concrete

1. This is speculation, and this is laughable. Your trying to downgrade the reflex of Dumbledore by your own calculations. I mean, you can't even give me a source on Ozai moving at instant and now you try to attack my at instant argument. The definition for instant is in my post. Read it, don't forget it. There does not need to be anything concrete to know what an instant is. J.K rowling would honestly be better debating with you then me.

If it was a bullet or something, it'd mean something. But here, it doesn't tell us anything at all.

A instant is an instant. End of story.

This will go over to page 300 if it needs to like the Severus Snape vs Gandalf thread.

#39 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Aang and zuko are both fast enough to dodge lightening, which is about 6k km/s (minimum level), about 4k times faster than bullets.

That's real world lightning. Give me the specific time/level of Avatar lightning.

Victor, who is not even a bullet timer, or beast, a near bullet timer maybe, have successfully fought against teleporters with that level of speed. So, someone who is far faster than them (1000 times, and that's being generous) should easily blitz bullet timers, whether they have teleportion or not.

Discounted. This is not victor vs Ozai, this is Voldemort and Severus Snape vs Ozai and Azula

(Don't attack me over this, I'm helping you here: Goku is far above a bullet timer,

'Orale.

2. Back to the time harry faced voldemort in ministry, harry was unable to use any spell because his enemy was maybe.. twice or thrice faster than him. Here we're using a lightening timer. I don't need to say how much faster that is again. So from crucio to jelly legs, no curse is going to help. In the same way it didn't help harry. as gap between lightening timer's reflex voldemort's >> that between harry's reflex and voldemorts.

Keep on topic. There's nothing but your speedblitz argument (which is farfetched and doesn't even carry anything from the actual show of avatar) saying that Voldemort and Snape gets curbstomped badly here. You yourself said your debating the losing team. I will fight til this thread gets to page 900. I do not care. I want sources, your giving me your own calcuations. Guess what? NOT A SOURCE. Jelly Jinx would work (show me a spell/curse not working against Ozai), so would Crucio.

#40 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

1. Aang and zuko are both fast enough to dodge lightening, which is about 6k km/s (minimum level), about 4k times faster than bullets.

That's real world lightning. Give me the specific time/level of Avatar lightning.

Victor, who is not even a bullet timer, or beast, a near bullet timer maybe, have successfully fought against teleporters with that level of speed. So, someone who is far faster than them (1000 times, and that's being generous) should easily blitz bullet timers, whether they have teleportion or not.

Discounted. This is not victor vs Ozai, this is Voldemort and Severus Snape vs Ozai and Azula

(Don't attack me over this, I'm helping you here: Goku is far above a bullet timer,

'Orale.

2. Back to the time harry faced voldemort in ministry, harry was unable to use any spell because his enemy was maybe.. twice or thrice faster than him. Here we're using a lightening timer. I don't need to say how much faster that is again. So from crucio to jelly legs, no curse is going to help. In the same way it didn't help harry. as gap between lightening timer's reflex voldemort's >> that between harry's reflex and voldemorts.

Keep on topic. There's nothing but your speedblitz argument (which is farfetched and doesn't even carry anything from the actual show of avatar) saying that Voldemort and Snape gets curbstomped badly here. You yourself said your debating the losing team. I will fight til this thread gets to page 900. I do not care. I want sources, your giving me your own calcuations. Guess what? NOT A SOURCE. Jelly Jinx would work (show me a spell/curse not working against Ozai), so would Crucio.

Real world lightening? *This* is your argument? Avatar water is water, fire is fire, earth is earth, air is air, but lightening is different? You are the one who needs to prove that it is so, if you're going to do it.

Discounted? *facepalm*. I'm showing you that much slower characters have dealt with teleportion. Some speed/reflex feat of a slower character is usable for a faster character, yes or no?

I'm on topic. Essence of that point is the spells are useless you don't have the time to use it.

And do you need me to prove my calculations? Tell me which part you are not getting:

average speed of bullet: 0.9-1.5 km/s.

Speed of lightening: about 6000 km/s.

Taking higher side of bullet speed, it's about 4000 times faster.

So characters who can dodge lightening have at least 1k times better speed than those who have bullet level speed. What part do you need source, tell me, they are just scientific numbers everyone knows. Why do you need a source for scientific facts? It's like asking the source of speed of sound=330m/s or that of light=300000 km/s. I'm not using anything that I just think of. Took the numbers, did the division.

Are you saying that someone with over 1000 times speed than you can't blitz you?

#41 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

1. Aang and zuko are both fast enough to dodge lightening, which is about 6k km/s (minimum level), about 4k times faster than bullets.

That's real world lightning. Give me the specific time/level of Avatar lightning.

Victor, who is not even a bullet timer, or beast, a near bullet timer maybe, have successfully fought against teleporters with that level of speed. So, someone who is far faster than them (1000 times, and that's being generous) should easily blitz bullet timers, whether they have teleportion or not.

Discounted. This is not victor vs Ozai, this is Voldemort and Severus Snape vs Ozai and Azula

(Don't attack me over this, I'm helping you here: Goku is far above a bullet timer,

'Orale.

2. Back to the time harry faced voldemort in ministry, harry was unable to use any spell because his enemy was maybe.. twice or thrice faster than him. Here we're using a lightening timer. I don't need to say how much faster that is again. So from crucio to jelly legs, no curse is going to help. In the same way it didn't help harry. as gap between lightening timer's reflex voldemort's >> that between harry's reflex and voldemorts.

Keep on topic. There's nothing but your speedblitz argument (which is farfetched and doesn't even carry anything from the actual show of avatar) saying that Voldemort and Snape gets curbstomped badly here. You yourself said your debating the losing team. I will fight til this thread gets to page 900. I do not care. I want sources, your giving me your own calcuations. Guess what? NOT A SOURCE. Jelly Jinx would work (show me a spell/curse not working against Ozai), so would Crucio.

Real world lightening? *This* is your argument? Avatar water is water, fire is fire, earth is earth, air is air, but lightening is different? You are the one who needs to prove that it is so, if you're going to do it.

Discounted? *facepalm*. I'm showing you that much slower characters have dealt with teleportion. Some speed/reflex feat of a slower character is usable for a faster character, yes or no?

I'm on topic. Essence of that point is the spells are useless you don't have the time to use it.

And do you need me to prove my calculations? Tell me which part you are not getting:

average speed of bullet: 0.9-1.5 km/s.

Speed of lightening: about 6000 km/s.

Taking higher side of bullet speed, it's about 4000 times faster.

So characters who can dodge lightening have at least 1k times better speed than those who have bullet level speed. What part do you need source, tell me, they are just scientific numbers everyone knows. Why do you need a source for scientific facts? It's like asking the source of speed of sound=330m/s or that of light=300000 km/s. I'm not using anything that I just think of. Took the numbers, did the division.

Are you saying that someone with over 1000 times speed than you can't blitz you?

1. Avatar is fictional, the water you can shoot from your palms, however Water is slower then Avatar lightning. You can see that from looking at the show.

2. Average speed of real world lightning, give me stuff from the actual show, please. Please.

So characters who can dodge lightening have at least 1k times better speed than those who have bullet level speed. What part do you need source, tell me, they are just scientific numbers everyone knows

3. Avatar is fictional. I don't want Science, I want stuff from the show that is relevant to this debate. I want stuff in the world of fiction, not in the world of Science.

Are you saying that someone with over 1000 times speed than you can't blitz you?

Show me Ozai going that amount in the show and we have a deal.

#42 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

I have been telling it to you from a long time. Bullet timers are enough to stop 'teleporters'. Lightening timers are overkill. Also, look at the sentence before running straight to the dictionary, man.. 'the snake, which had been an instant from sinking his teeth'. It is describing a small time period, as fawkes is simultaneously swallowing the curse. How small, we cannot say. Because it doesn't say anything objective. Not usable.

About the second:

Voldemort raised his wand and another jet of green light streaked at Dumbledore, who turned and was gone in a whirling of his cloak. Next second, he had reappeared behind Voldemort and waved his wand towards the remnants of the fountain.

One more thing: What voldemort used was not fiendfyre. It's a 'green jet of light', more likely to be a killing curse.

#43 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

1. Avatar is fictional, the water you can shoot from your palms, however Water is slower then Avatar lightning. You can see that from looking at the show.

2. Average speed of real world lightning, give me stuff from the actual show, please. Please.

So characters who can dodge lightening have at least 1k times better speed than those who have bullet level speed. What part do you need source, tell me, they are just scientific numbers everyone knows

3. Avatar is fictional. I don't want Science, I want stuff from the show that is relevant to this debate. I want stuff in the world of fiction, not in the world of Science.

Are you saying that someone with over 1000 times speed than you can't blitz you?

Show me Ozai going that amount in the show and we have a deal.

1. How is being fictonal related to speed of lightening? They don't shoot water out of hands. Water is taken from some source, such as plants around you or something.

2,3. If you are going to say that fire, earth, air, water, lightening in avatar are different from real world, you will need proof for that. More so because it's a completely real world themed show.

As long as you don't have proof/logical argument they are different, my points stand well..

#44 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

I have been telling it to you from a long time. Bullet timers are enough to stop 'teleporters'. Lightening timers are overkill. Also, look at the sentence before running straight to the dictionary, man.. 'the snake, which had been an instant from sinking his teeth'. It is describing a small time period, as fawkes is simultaneously swallowing the curse. How small, we cannot say. Because it doesn't say anything objective. Not usable.

About the second:

Voldemort raised his wand and another jet of green light streaked at Dumbledore, who turned and was gone in a whirling of his cloak. Next second, he had reappeared behind Voldemort and waved his wand towards the remnants of the fountain.

One more thing: What voldemort used was not fiendfyre. It's a 'green jet of light', more likely to be a killing curse.

He did indeed use Fiendfyre without any visible effort:

Dumbledore had drawn back his wand and waved it as though brandishing a whip. A long thin flame flew from the tip; it wrapped itself around Voldemort, shield and all. For a moment, it seemed Dumbledore had won, but then the fiery rope became a serpent, which relinquished its hold on Voldemort at once and turned, hissing furiously, to face Dumbledore.

Voldemort vanished; the snake reared from the floor, ready to strike--

Taken From: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

The rope just didn't turn into the serpent...Obviously Voldemort did it.

It is describing a small time period, as fawkes is simultaneously swallowing the curse. How small, we cannot say. Because it doesn't say anything objective. Not usable.

Explain to me how your scientific calculations on Lightning have anything to do with the fictional world of Avatar where they take time and move their hands to charge lightning. Voldemort can go at instant, they can go in a few seconds. So instead of giving me Scientific calculations on a fictional, fake, useless, idiotic battle, why don't you give me stuff from the world of Avatar that backs UP your calculations?

It being not usable is an opinion. Until J.K rowling says they aren't usable, they are usable. Your calculations aren't usable if you can't use them to back up what you say about the World of Avatar. You use Science for real world lightning, when Avatar lightning can be charged from your hands and it takes a few seconds and I see NOTHING that is stopping Voldemort from teleporting behind Ozai, and keep teleporting until he gets a good shot or using Imperio before he can even shoot his lightning. Now your going to give me more Scientific calculations: NO. NO.NO. I am nearly SICK and TIRED of this debate, YOU YOURSELF said that Ozai and Azula were the losing team, NOW YOUR USING SCIENTIFIC CALCULATIONS TO PROVE YOUR RIGHT. I.WANT.SOURCES.

#45 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

It is describing a small time period, as fawkes is simultaneously swallowing the curse. How small, we cannot say. Because it doesn't say anything objective. Not usable.

Explain to me how your scientific calculations on Lightning have anything to do with the fictional world of Avatar where they take time and move their hands to charge lightning. Voldemort can go at instant, they can go in a few seconds. So instead of giving me Scientific calculations on a fictional, fake, useless, idiotic battle, why don't you give me stuff from the world of Avatar that backs UP your calculations?

It being not usable is an opinion. Until J.K rowling says they aren't usable, they are usable. Your calculations aren't usable if you can't use them to back up what you say about the World of Avatar. You use Science for real world lightning, when Avatar lightning can be charged from your hands and it takes a few seconds and I see NOTHING that is stopping Voldemort from teleporting behind Ozai, and keep teleporting until he gets a good shot or using Imperio before he can even shoot his lightning. Now your going to give me more Scientific calculations: NO. NO.NO. I am nearly SICK and TIRED of this debate, YOU YOURSELF said that Ozai and Azula were the losing team, NOW YOUR USING SCIENTIFIC CALCULATIONS TO PROVE YOUR RIGHT. I.WANT.SOURCES.

Er.. you know that you made the fictional, fake, useless, idiotic battle, right?

Here's the point: Water, in the avatar verse is used directly, and is water. Fire used is same as fire in the real world. Earth is directly used as well. And so is air. Induction follows that lightening is same as real world lightening. 4 out of 5 elements used are same, but you are claiming lightening is different. The burden of proof is on you, as you are claiming that lightening is a special case. You're the one saying that one of the used elements behaves differently, while four others do not. So it's upto you to back it up, not me. And till you don't find the back up, the calculations stand firm. Your turn: source: why lightening should behave different when the rest of the elements do not.

The reason I am saying that it's not usable is, it doesn't give us any objective basis to go on. "Solid feats" as you say.

What I am trying to say is, a statement 'He is going fast' is not usable on battle forum. 'he is going at 20m/s' is what it should be like. He moved 'instantly' doesn't tell anything. The instant could be anything from a millisecond to a second. If it was like 'he did that in half a second', it will tell us something. Because what seems like an instance to bullet timers can be enough for a whole battle of lightening timers. Instant, is a relative term. unlike second, minute, hour, which are absolute. And for putting two characters against each other, we need absolute measurement of their reflexes. I can give you a free example. 'flash is fast'. Yes, we know that. But what is important about him that he has a stated picosecond reflex time. So we can agree that he can blitz most of the characters.

1. Either you find the sources to show me why lightening is slower, against 4/5 elements being the same as ordinary world, why should it be treated specially otherwise accept that the calculations for real world lightening are acceptable.

2. or as you're nearly sick and tired of the debate, we could stop.

#46 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

Water, in the avatar verse is used directly, and is water.

You can't shape water into icicles and fling them at people in the real world.

. Fire used is same as fire in the real world.

Can't shoot fire from your finger tips in the real world.

Earth is directly used as well. And so is air

Can't use them to attack in the real world.

. And so is air. Induction follows that lightening is same as real world lightening. 4 out of 5 elements used are same, but you are claiming lightening is different. The burden of proof is on you, as you are claiming that lightening is a special case.

Show me real life lightning being shot from someone's hands.

You're the one saying that one of the used elements behaves differently, while four others do not. So it's upto you to back it up, not me. And till you don't find the back up, the calculations stand firm. Your turn: source: why lightening should behave different when the rest of the elements do not.

They all behave differently because they are not SCIENTIFIC. It's FICTION. And if I can not get feats, then measuring by Feats Snape and Voldemort take this, measuring by fanboyism and Science, in your mind, Ozai and Azula win. The battle forums goes by feats, thus, Voldemort and Snape win.

The reason I am saying that it's not usable is, it doesn't give us any objective basis to go on. "Solid feats" as you say.

You havn't given me any "solid feats".

What I am trying to say is, a statement 'He is going fast' is not usable on battle forum. 'he is going at 20m/s' is what it should be like. He moved 'instantly' doesn't tell anything.

Yet your using scientific calculations to see what Ozai's speed is, when Ozai's speed is very vague. I will ask this one more time, give me a FEAT from the world of AVATAR, not Science, Albert Enstien didn't write TLA. Give me a feat from the world of AVATAR that shows me Ozai speedblitzing someone. Don't go to Science, go to avatar. You refuse to give me this, if you keep refusing people can see that in sources I win.

The instant could be anything from a millisecond to a second. If it was like 'he did that in half a second', it will tell us something. Because what seems like an instance to bullet timers can be enough for a whole battle of lightening timers. Instant, is a relative term. unlike second, minute, hour, which are absolute. And for putting two characters against each other, we need absolute measurement of their reflexes. I can give you a free example. 'flash is fast'. Yes, we know that. But what is important about him that he has a stated picosecond reflex time. So we can agree that he can blitz most of the characters.

FLASH ISN'T IN THIS. Im facepalming so hard inrl right now. Give me a feat in the world of Avatar that shows me Ozai speedblitzing someone. Forget this bullet-timer and lightning-timer argument, if you want to have this debate continue any further SHOW ME THE FEATS.

Either you find the sources to show me why lightening is slower, against 4/5 elements being the same as ordinary world, why should it be treated specially otherwise accept that the calculations for real world lightening are acceptable.

1. Here's what I am asking for. Either you show me, INSIDE the world of Avatar, INSIDE the Show, a book, or a tyokop comic of Ozai SPEEDBLITZING someone, or this debate ends.

2. This debate will end if you don't show me any feats in the next post. If you can't show me feats of Ozai speedblitzing in the fictional world of Avatar, then let's agree on the stalemate. Or since you said Snape and Voldemort are enough to take down Ozai and Azula, let's agree on a close victory for Voldemort and Snape.

#47 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks said:

Water, in the avatar verse is used directly, and is water.

You can't shape water into icicles and fling them at people in the real world.

. Fire used is same as fire in the real world.

Can't shoot fire from your finger tips in the real world.

Earth is directly used as well. And so is air

Can't use them to attack in the real world.

. And so is air. Induction follows that lightening is same as real world lightening. 4 out of 5 elements used are same, but you are claiming lightening is different. The burden of proof is on you, as you are claiming that lightening is a special case.

Show me real life lightning being shot from someone's hands.

you can. you need the ability to bend. Which is the only difference. Bending doesn't exist in the real world. But that doesn't mean there is a difference between real elements and avatar ones. As there are people, who cannot do any of the said stuff. It's the ability that makes them do the thing. If the elements were special, everybody would have done that.ot.

They all behave differently because they are not SCIENTIFIC. It's FICTION.

You can see water wetting the surfaces (balance of adhesive and cohesive force), falling down when bender is disturbed (gravity), air currents lifting things in the air (creation of pressure difference) and about every property of science followed by the said elements. They are following the laws of science well. Sp you can't disregard the calculations because they're 'scientific' (which is pretty illogical in itself. I could understand disregarding if they were against science, but disregarding them because they follow science? weird) Repeat: Elements aren't special, bending is. Unless you have proof otherwise, the calculations stand firm.

And if I can not get feats, then measuring by Feats Snape and Voldemort take this, measuring by fanboyism and Science, in your mind, Ozai and Azula win. The battle forums goes by feats, thus, Voldemort and Snape win.

The reason I am saying that it's not usable is, it doesn't give us any objective basis to go on. "Solid feats" as you say.

measuring by feats, ozai has feats of being faster than a lightening timer. Voldemort has this so called 'instant', which we don't even know how long it was. Lightening on the other hand has a definite speed. You haven't even shown something to put voldemort on a bullet timer scale. There is no reason why he will not be blitzed by a lightening timer.

Now here's the feat comparison:

ozai: faster than lightening dodger vs Voldemort: a vague mention of 'instance'. Objectively, never even dodged a bullet or something comparable.

durability: ozai: has survived getting rammed by an air jet which can grind solid rock boulders. Voldemort: Nothing to show he has durability of even peak human. (Harry etc don't at least).

Destructive feats: ozai: can shoot huge bolts of fire/circular rings of fire, has lightening, can smash through solid bended rock barrier. Voldemort: Has destroyed glasses of multistory building non cannon. Has broken a huge protective sphere: non canon. Has caused cracks in a house. I'm not 100% sure but no feats of mass destruction. Basically voldemort has more specific attacks, while ozai's are more the soldier type. Raw power.

Versatility: Goes to voldemort hands down. Safe to assume he knows almost every curse we've seen in HP except the signature ones, like snape's or dumbledore's.

Voldemort is trumped in everything except versatility.

What I am trying to say is, a statement 'He is going fast' is not usable on battle forum. 'he is going at 20m/s' is what it should be like. He moved 'instantly' doesn't tell anything.

Yet your using scientific calculations to see what Ozai's speed is, when Ozai's speed is very vague. I will ask this one more time, give me a FEAT from the world of AVATAR, not Science, Albert Enstien didn't write TLA. Give me a feat from the world of AVATAR that shows me Ozai speedblitzing someone. Don't go to Science, go to avatar. You refuse to give me this, if you keep refusing people can see that in sources I win.

again, see above, as they seem to obey all other rules of science, my calculations stand firm. The speed isn't vague in any manner. Faster than a lightening timer. (That's pretty insane)

I am showing that most of the scientific principles are obeyed in avatar. You're not giving any reason why the elements are different. 'it's fictonal!' isn't nearly enough. Well, I have nothing to do with whoever you think wins, or what people see. If you're unable to breach my argument and still saying you win, you're free to believe in your dream.

Also, only fights we've seen from ozai is a fight against lightening timer. There's no way to blitz someone who's about as fast as you are. The reason he blitzes here, is his opponents are not lightening timers. Just because a person fights very fast people normally doesn't mean that he won't be able to blitz the slower ones.

#48 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1895 posts) - - Show Bio

you can. you need the ability to bend. Which is the only difference. Bending doesn't exist in the real world. But that doesn't mean there is a difference between real elements and avatar ones. As there are people, who cannot do any of the said stuff. It's the ability that makes them do the thing. If the elements were special, everybody would have done that.ot.

BENDING IS FICTION. Leave BENDING in the FICTIONAL world. It is hard to debate with you.

You can see water wetting the surfaces (balance of adhesive and cohesive force), falling down when bender is disturbed (gravity), air currents lifting things in the air (creation of pressure difference) and about every property of science followed by the said elements. They are following the laws of science well.

Alright, I stopped reading that part right there. We are looking for feats, not science.

measuring by feats, ozai has feats of being faster than a lightening timer. Voldemort has this so called 'instant', which we don't even know how long it was. Lightening on the other hand has a definite speed. You haven't even shown something to put voldemort on a bullet timer scale. There is no reason why he will not be blitzed by a lightening time

We've only seen him one time in a battle, that was when he's at full power. He's not at full power. Show me him speedblitzing anyone. I want to see it.

ozai: faster than lightening dodger vs Voldemort: a vague mention of 'instance'. Objectively, never even dodged a bullet or something comparable.

It's not vague. We know what instant means.If someone tells you "Come here this instant" Do you say: Well do you mean a milesecond, a parasecond, 2 seconds. No, they mean NOW. Instant means no time and space involved in between. What's so hard to understand? Also, show me in the show Ozai going above human speed and show me him speedblitzing anyone in the show.

Destructive feats: ozai: can shoot huge bolts of fire/circular rings of fire, has lightening, can smash through solid bended rock barrier.

You realize someone like Zaoh can do this, right? In terms of accomplishments the only thing he did was make the Avatar squeal .

Voldemort: Has destroyed glasses of multistory building non cannon. Has broken a huge protective sphere: non canon. Has caused cracks in a house. I'm not 100% sure but no feats of mass destruction. Basically voldemort has more specific attacks, while ozai's are more the soldier type. Raw power.

How are the movies non-canon? This is laughable. J.K rowling inspiried the movies, called them all great an said they were like the book. This is just laughable that your trying to downplay Voldemort in anyway, huh?

1. Voldemort DID break a cocoon of water, canon:

Dumbledore brandished his wand in one long, fluid movement--the snake, which had been an instant from sinking its fangs into him, flew high into the air and vanished in a wisp of dark smoke; and the water in the pool rose up and covered Voldemort like a cocoon of molten glass.

For a few seconds Voldemort was visible only as a dark, rippling, faceless figure, shimmering and indistinct upon the plinth, clearly struggling to throw off the suffocating mass--

Then he was gone and the water fell with a crash back into its pool, slopping wildly over the sides, drenching the polished floor.

'MASTER!' screamed Bellatrix.

2. Show ,me the windows thing is non-canon. Because now Im laughing at you.

3. Voldemort has undergone spell creation (the deadliest thing in Harry Potter that only few had undergone) that is a accomplishment/feat.

4. Voldemort knows every killing curse in Harry Potter, and has mastered Dark Magic and everything below

5. Voldemort can teleport at thought and instant.

6. Voldemort has created horcruxes that made him borderline immortal/immortal.

7. Voldemort can turn in inanimate object into a soldier or something to help him, so if a tree is nearby and he's in a duel he can easily make that tree alive.

8. Voldemort can fly.

9. As mentioned, Dumbledore or Voldemort can go invisible with a spell. (Yes, I was shocked also, I had to re-read the books) I wonder how Ozai will get around that.

10. Nearly killed Dumbledore even though Dumbledore had the elder wand

11. Has used a instant killing curse.

12. Can use wandless magic.

again, see above, as they seem to obey all other rules of science, my calculations stand firm. The speed isn't vague in any manner. Faster than a lightening timer. (That's pretty insane)

Im asking for a source from the fictional world of Avatar, not Science.

Well, I have nothing to do with whoever you think wins, or what people see. If you're unable to breach my argument and still saying you win, you're free to believe in your dream.

My dream? *Sigh* So sad. You yourself said Voldemort and Snape win, now you go back on what you said.

Also, only fights we've seen from ozai is a fight against lightening timer. There's no way to blitz someone who's about as fast as you are. The reason he blitzes here, is his opponents are not lightening timers. Just because a person fights very fast people normally doesn't mean that he won't be able to blitz the slower ones.

If you can't show me him blitzing in the fictional world of TLA, then he won't blitz here. Plain and simple.

#49 Edited by UltimateHero0406 (2160 posts) - - Show Bio

@PrinceAragorn1: Physical stats won't mean much here. Snape and volde should win here and rather easily at that. With 5 hours prep, 2 master wizards can do a hell of a lot. Especially against 2 muggles. They can use potions, charms, hexes, whatever to counter the simple fire and lightning they face here. Ozai and azula are severely out classed. They could even use an invisibility spell and take the fire family by surprise. They may even have the capability to see into the future via divination department. HPverse takes it once again.

#50 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (14189 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kingjohnrocks:

1.Right. Bending is fiction. But that doesn't say anything about why the lightening in avatar shouldn't be as fast. If the other elements are same, lightening is same as well, which means it also has the same speed. Unless proved otherwise. You are saying 'we're looking for feats. Not science.' And you're saying you stopped reading at the part I showed you that science is consistent. I am showing you science is consistent, you are not reading it and saying that my info is scientific and not usable (paradox?). You have not admittedly read my proof, and have not countered that, and giving your opinion that the information should not be used,which has no value at all, because you haven't countered my proof.

I proved you that science and avatar are consistant. You ignored it and said that you didn't want to see science. Proof vs denial without counter proof. score: 1-0.

2. Instant: As you said, when one says, 'come here this instant', it means come here without delay.But the actual time taken for action is different. If it's a 10m distance, to a human with speed of 10m/s, it means 1 second. To a bullet timer, about 1k m/s, it means about 0.01 sec. To a lightening timer, about 6k km/s, it means about 1/6000000 of a second. I belong to the first catagory, so I understand it as one second.

But, if I say, come here in one second, it means one second to everyone. Whether they are capable or not does not matter. Because second is an absolute unit. Instant is not. As long as you don't have absolute information, you can't claim that they have particular reflexes. Absolute vs relative: 2-0.

3. Ozai 's speed blitz: Ozai didn't speed blitz because he was fighting opponents with lightening level speed. That does NOT mean that he will not be able do blitz far slower characters. unless you are saying a faster character can't blitz a far slower one, just because he always fights at his own level. State clearly if you are saying so.

4.Canon-non canon. Of course the movies have rolling's affirmation. Otherwise they would have faced lawsuit. But movies were just based off HP. The scripts for harry potter were written by steve kloves and fifth part by michael goldenberg. Not rolling. So it IS non-cannon. Only the original sources are canon and movies, however accurate are just adaptations. Parallel example: Dragon ball GT script was approved by akira. Yet it is non-cannon as he was not the writer. But of course, you're the op, and decide whether to movie feats are to be used or not. But I'm sure there is no mention of the windows breaking anywhere, nor is the barrier break in part seven.