Ignore teleportation. Ignore a drow's innate magical abilities. Ignore a half-demon's innate magical abilities. Ignore the fact that both combatants may be wielding magical blades. Ignore BFR. Battle is to the death. Bloodlust on. Morals off. Who dies first in this spectacular and ambidextrous pure swordfight ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Drizzt is considered the most talented swordsman in D&D, as far as official stats have been posted. And his gear...epic to say the least. He also has a pretty good track record vs demons...
And Azazel's teleportation is one of his greatest strengths right?...sounds like he;s doomed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Drizzt is considered the most talented swordsman in D&D, as far as official stats have been posted. And his gear...epic to say the least. He also has a pretty good track record vs demons... And Azazel's teleportation is one of his greatest strengths right?...sounds like he;s doomed.
No. You are correct about Drizzt. But, Azazel is also an extraordinary swordsman, and in my opinion, ranks up there alongside Artemis Entreri (Drizzt's main arch-nemesis) in sword-skills. And, if Drizzt has trouble defeating Artemis for good, imagine fighting a half-demon that's as equally-skilled as Azazel.
Drizzt by official stats is not even 20th level. Unless things have changed and he has been given an upgraded stat block for 4th edition. His 3.5 version set him as Ftr10/Bbn1/Rgr5 which was only 16th level. Then add 2 for the Drow level adjustment and he is still just 18th level.
There are plenty of character who were far better than that. The King of Damar for example is Pal20/Clr5. All of his companions are of similar levels. The dead King of Cormyr was also a higher level fighter than anything Drizzt achieved. Numerous Drow from the same exact city he is from also exceed that benchmark. Ryld Argith for starters, along with his father, and Dantrag, and Del-Armgo weapon master. List goes on.
Now do I feel the official stats for Drizzt are a correct representation? No. Not in the least. But going by official stats. He would not be one of the most talented swordsman. If you consider how long he has had to perfect his craft compared to various humans. Not even close.
Drizzt by official stats is not even 20th level. Unless things have changed and he has been given an upgraded stat block for 4th edition. His 3.5 version set him as Ftr10/Bbn1/Rgr5 which was only 16th level. Then add 2 for the Drow level adjustment and he is still just 18th level. There are plenty of character who were far better than that. The King of Damar for example is Pal20/Clr5. All of his companions are of similar levels. The dead King of Cormyr was also a higher level fighter than anything Drizzt achieved. Numerous Drow from the same exact city he is from also exceed that benchmark. Ryld Argith for starters, along with his father, and Dantrag, and Del-Armgo weapon master. List goes on. Now do I feel the official stats for Drizzt are a correct representation? No. Not in the least. But going by official stats. He would not be one of the most talented swordsman. If you consider how long he has had to perfect his craft compared to various humans. Not even close.
You are correct about the stats, sir: there are indeed millions of characters in the Forgotten Realm that are higher leveled than him. But, I believe that you know full well that having high experience levels does NOT make one a better-swordsman. Yes, it may give him/her a better hit roll and damage bonus on the dice, but it is absolutely possible that a lower level character can also have learned a much better fighting skill than someone of higher level. Now, I may have answered alcoholbob too soon about Drizzt being THE best swordsman in the FR setting (mainly coz I thought he said "Correct me if I'm wrong, but Drizzt is considered ONE of the most talented swordsman in D&D"............( I did not notice that he did not have the words "one of" there), but if you seriously think that a human like the dead king of Cormyr was a better fighter, then I think you might be kidding yourself. Now, having said all that, I really think that Drizzt is ONE OF THE BEST ( NOT the best) swordsman in D&D. Otherwise, RA Salvatore wouldn't have created Artemis Entreri (a human) to be his equal. Know what I'm saying ?
I believe that you know full well that having high experience levels does NOT make one a better-swordsman.
The character's base attack bonus pretty much sums that up. So in a way, Yes. The more experience/levels you have the better swordsman you are. According to the rules.
@WindCloud said:
Yes, it may give him/her a better hit roll and damage bonus on the dice, but it is absolutely possible that a lower level character can also have learned a much better fighting skill than someone of higher level.
According to the base attack bonus no. The roll of the dice is luck factor. Not skill. We take it to the next step and a lower level character has even less chance at winning once hit points and armor class come into play.
@WindCloud said:
Now, I may have answered alcoholbob too soon about Drizzt being THE best swordsman in the FR setting (mainly coz I thought he said "Correct me if I'm wrong, but Drizzt is considered ONE of the most talented swordsman in D&D"............( I did not notice that he did not have the words "one of" there)
This doesn't even make sense by your own words. Unless you have a extremely loose perspective on what 'One of the most talented' means. As you, yourself said earlier that there are many characters in the Forgotten Realms who are of higher level. Fighters, Rangers, Paladins, etc. And as explained above going off 'official stats' He would not be one of the most talented. But fall shortly behind. He does not even break the Top 20 going off of official stats. (Again IMO the stats given to Drizzt are not a good representation of the character. But I am going off of what was said in this thread.)
@WindCloud said:
but if you seriously think that a human like the dead king of Cormyr was a better fighter, then I think you might be kidding yourself.
Based off of Official Rules. Yes. He was. Going off what we have seen them accomplish throughout their novels. No. They are actually close. Keep in mind that the dead King of Cormyr has fought off the Devil Dragon. Which is no small feat.
@WindCloud said:
I really think that Drizzt is ONE OF THE BEST ( NOT the best) swordsman in D&D. Otherwise, RA Salvatore wouldn't have created Artemis Entreri (a human) to be his equal. Know what I'm saying ?
Based off of Novels. I would agree. But based off of Official stats. Not even close.
Okay. It's all very good that you're going off stats and all, but:
1. I am only going off from the novels and comics, not stats, and if we go by novels and comics, then Drizzt will have to be close to being THE top swordsmen in D&D. 2. I don't have a "loose perspective" of what "one of the most talented" means. I was simply saying that I THOUGHT alcoholbob said Drizzt is one of the best swordsman in D&D, that's why I said that he was correct. But, in actuality, he said Drizzt was THE best swordsman in D&D, which (had I read his statement more carefully) I woulda said that he was wrong. You get it now ? 3. You got a little carried away with the stats explanation and arguing with me there, that you never really answered my OQ: "who dies first between Drizzt and Azazel ?"
@alcoholbob: I already provided examples above in an earlier post.
@WindCloud: Again as I stated in the post. My above statements were in regards to Drizzt being one of the best in respect to his Official Stats. This is incorrect. However as I have said. I believe his Official stats to be a poor representation of the character. If you take what he has shown and done in the novels (NOT his official stats). Then yes. He should be one of the top swordsman.
As for the fight dealing in this thread. I don't know Azazel enough to make any claim. But I do know Drizzt well enough to correct right or wrong assumptions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Drizzt is considered the most talented swordsman in D&D, as far as official stats have been posted.
That is actually far from being correct. Even more so if you go by 'official' stats written up.
? Give some examples? I mean, you wouldn't post unless you had at least 1...right?
He wants to go by game stats, Bob, so I don't think he'll be able to post a pictorial scan any time soon (if that is what you're referring to), and I also don't think that you guys will be reaching some kind of common agreement any time soon.
No. I corrected a statement dealing with his official stats. Not once have I ever said I (or anyone) should base their stats on his official write ups.
@alcoholbob: I already provided examples above in an earlier post.
@WindCloud: Again as I stated in the post. My above statements were in regards to Drizzt being one of the best in respect to his Official Stats. This is incorrect. However as I have said. I believe his Official stats to be a poor representation of the character. If you take what he has shown and done in the novels (NOT his official stats). Then yes. He should be one of the top swordsman. As for the fight dealing in this thread. I don't know Azazel enough to make any claim. But I do know Drizzt well enough to correct right or wrong assumptions.
Drizzt was stated out as Level 16 before the Obould invasion. Jaraxle Baenrae after his adventures in the Bloodstone Lands with Enterei gained 3 levels (18 -> 21). The current Drizzt series is 100 years AFTER that.
When the next Essentials comes out you should easily see Drizzt in the mid 20s.
As far as King Gareth, you are talking about retired adventurers...I never said Drizzt was "the greatest of all time" if that's what you think I'm implying.
No. I corrected a statement dealing with his official stats. Not once have I ever said I (or anyone) should base their stats on his official write ups.
I never said Drizzt was "the greatest of all time" if that's what you think I'm implying.
@alcoholbob said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Drizzt is considered the most talented swordsman in D&D, as far as official stats have been posted.
This has been shown to be proven wrong.
@alcoholbob said:
Drizzt was stated out as Level 16 before the Obould invasion. Jaraxle Baenrae after his adventures in the Bloodstone Lands with Enterei gained 3 levels (18 -> 21). The current Drizzt series is 100 years AFTER that. When the next Essentials comes out you should easily see Drizzt in the mid 20s.
Speculation. Your first post referred to Official stats. Which was incorrect.
@alcoholbob said:
As far as King Gareth, you are talking about retired adventurers.
Retired or not he would still have a claim as you put it. "Most talented swordsman in D&D".
Bob made the claim that Drizzt was the most talented swordsman in D&D according to official stats. As shown my posts were to prove that assumption wrong.
@Andy Steven Summers: Your argument is aging retired or corpses of dead adventurers are better than Drizzt. I can't really help you if that's where you are going.
Going by stats or not, if you or anyone seriously think that someone like King Gareth is a more talented swordsman than Drizzt, then you must have your head(s) examined. LOL ! Sorry, but Drizzt is lightyears ahead of this character in swordsmanship, IMO.
Your argument is aging retired or dead adventurers are better than Drizzt. I can't really help you if that's where you are going.
Thanks for agreeing your statement was false.
Let me clarify since you seem to be having problems with basic semantics then. Drizzt is the most talented swords among those who can still fight. It's unfortunate that one has to be so precise.
It's like if someone were to ask what is the fasted military plane and I were to say the Mig-25. Then someone interjects no its the SR-71is, because even though its retired, it is faster...as if that was relevant answer to a question asked today.
I need to remind myself that some people need to be spoon-fed one word at a time in order to get an idea across.
Your argument is aging retired or dead adventurers are better than Drizzt. I can't really help you if that's where you are going.
Thanks for agreeing your statement was false.
Let me clarify since you seem to be having problems with basic semantics then. Drizzt is the most talented swords among those who can still fight. It's unfortunate that one has to be so precise. I need to remind myself that some people need to be spoon-fed one word at a time in order to get an idea across.
Told you you guys wouldn't agree with each other any time soon. This is hilarious. LOL !!!
@alcoholbob: Jarlaxle is still alive and can give him a run for his money. So could Artemis who is still alive. Along with his new 'companion in which he met during the Gauntlgrym series. Also the 'annoying' Dwarf Athrogate could and has been shown to give him some trouble. These are just characters inside his own books. You seem to forget that the Forgotten Realms is a LOT bigger than just the tiny spec of land Drizzt and his friends play on. I suggest you actually read the other novels and learn more about the characters. The War of the Spider Queen and the Last Mythal series both introduce a number of characters who could give him a 'run for his money'.
Drizzt was stated out as Level 16 before the Obould invasion. Jaraxle Baenrae after his adventures in the Bloodstone Lands with Enterei gained 3 levels (18 -> 21). The current Drizzt series is 100 years AFTER that. When the next Essentials comes out you should easily see Drizzt in the mid 20s.
Speculation. Your first post referred to Official stats. Which was incorrect.
Actually I found Drizzt's 4E stats. It's in Dungeon Magazine #171. He is a BEAST. He is a Level 21 Solo , while Jarlaxle is a Level 21 Elite. A solo represents three Elites of the same level. Drizzt is effectively a Level 27 character right now.
764 hit points, makes 2 and half times more attacks than Jarlaxle and has a ton of abilities that make Jarlaxle look like an amateur.
Right now he is the PRIME D&D swordsman. In other words, as he is built right now, he is designed to fight Jarlaxle AND Entreri at the same time, and win. Statistically he is as strong as an Elder Red Dragon right now.
It's been 100+ years, Drizzt has obviously leveled up...no speculation needed ;p
@alcoholbob: Seems they have raised his strength considerably. Dex and Con also took a boost, but his intelligence dropped. Awe they didn't list statistics for Icingdeath and Twinkle. Guess it's better this way as they always screw them up.
It also says that Drizzt is a level 21 solo skirmisher.
@WindCloud: Question about the battle. You mentioned we should ignore the characters magical abilities, and magical blades. But what about their other equipment?
Yep he's a solo. He gives 16,000 XP as a solo vs Jaraxle who gives about 6,000XP as an elite. So he is supposed to present the challenge of ~3 Jarlaxles. On the XP table for elites, 16,000 is roughly level 26.
Elite is equivalent to a player character. Solo ~ 2.5 Elites.
So you have that scene in the movies where some 12 year old girl miraculously kills a level 40 ninja assassin trying to assassinate her with a well placed trap and hitting him on the back of the head with a baseball bat.
Usually that would just result in a critical hit but since he had more hp he'd just turn around and keep fighting.
@WindCloud: Question about the battle. You mentioned we should ignore the characters magical abilities, and magical blades. But what about their other equipment?
My bad. Guess I shoulda specified a little better......*ahem*.....as it stands right now: in terms of weapons and other equipments, assume Azazel got a hold of Khazid'hea somehow in one hand, and a NORMAL shortsword +5 in the other (with no other magical properties). Drizzt, of course, is holding both Twinkle and Icingdeath (and I'm assuming neither one has "demon slaying" as a property). Also, Drizzt just has his pifwawi (don't know if I spelled that correctly, but it's his elven cloak), and nothing else magical. Oh yeah, and no Guen figurine either.
@WindCloud: I was more curious about his bracers (that he uses as anklets) and his newest item he got. His spider-silk shirt.
The bracers are known "Bracers of Blinding Strike" and they allow him more control over his attacks AND gives him more attacks per round. His spider-silk shirt gives him another +1 to AC, I believe. But, again, for the purposes of this battle, he's not wearing either one here.
@WindCloud: I'm well aware of what the items are. His spider-silk shirt was taken off one of the Drow from The Two Swords trilogy. This garment prevented even Drizzt's blades from penetrating it. I would hope it gives more than a simple +1 AC in games terms. But we'll never know as even in the 4E stats provided by Bob. It does not appear.
Maybe.
You also said you were curious about those items, just wasn't sure what you meant there by that, so I assumed you wanted to know what they were.
Log in to comment