Avengers vs xmen (movie version)

The flow was diverted as a side effect of her wall, and was still millions of ton that continued to flow at her, which would mean the pressure was increasing. It is impressive because she was able to hold off the force that kept hitting her wall. Projectiles come into play? She blocked a full optic blast from a bloodlusted Cyclopes at her base levels, and we already saw in the third movie how she can handle multiple projectiles. His thunder clap blocks her concentration how? She can use her powers to do multiple things at once, it's pretty clear that her concentration is not so easily broken.

@lordofallhumans:

You said it was low, based on you not believing it was high. The few feats he has shows it was not low at all, and that he was more durable than Wolverine. as evidence by Wolverine being thrown into a wall dented it and being knocked unconscious. Wolverine has higher durability than the other mutants and all humans in the movie, this would mean Juggernaut has a high degree of durability by comparison. Everything suggests he died because nearly everybody with the exception of those shown to survive basically did die, she was atomizing everything around her and he was lying in the building unconscious, no reason to believe he woke up and left or they would have shown it. I think my mentioning of the force field went over your head.

How many time do I have to explain this? When I said "low" I meant low in terms of Hulks and Thors beucase I am debating Hulk and Thor. He obviously had high durability compared to the other charactersX-Men.

Juggernat has a high durability than Wolverine? So according to you Wolverine was thrown into a wall and dented and and he got KOd? Sounds like PIS. When did this happen? I remember him being kicked into a wall by Juggernaut and Wolverine got up.

I also remember when Juggernaut and Wolverine both got electrocuted and Juggernaut got KO'd by it.

Why would showing Juggernaut after Jean died be important unless he was that important and was planning to make a sequel with him? You seriously think the Directors thought Juggernaut was that important that he had to be shown alive? That would be useless screeen time since he's not one of the "main characters" You're trying to say that all of them must have died since she was atomizing the whole Island, but when Jean was doing that to the house Juggernaut was in it and he didn't die?

And what do you mean mentionng the force field went a little over my head? I was disgreeing with you before you even mentioned the force field.

And you do realize she didn't atomize the building completely right? And while she was atomizing people they were still mutants on the Island but they didn't die? And once Wolverine killed her they skipped to the X-Mansion scene. So its not like they were like "Hey lets show the mutants that lived". You have to suggest he actually died before you can say he died.

Once again, what?

Do you pay attention to things? Or do you just reply to that one message? Becuase it seems like thats what you're doing. You said she can interefere with X-Men becuase you said she can mess with the X-Jet(Turned it on). Now I'm asking you if she was ever shown to turn stuff off? You can destroy a solar system but can you create it? You can break a car but does that mean you can fix it?

Why does she have to move it to deflect it? Caps shield took a hit from it and he was fine, she can take him throwing the hammer into her tk shields which are infinitely more powerful than that shield as far as how much they can take.

Wow. So her shields are infinitely more powerful huh? You do realzie that Captain America is beyond a "normal human". You do realize Captain America should be somewhere around Abominations durability(when he was human) right? You do know when he was enhanced he was able to take a kick from Hulk right? You do know that his shield absorb kinetic energy right? You do realize that it is made out of Adamantium and Vibranium right?

When has Captain Americas shield been broken? None right? How many times have her TK shields been broken? I mean it obviously wasn't strong enough to hold back just a fraction of the Dam....

Morals on he will not throw his hammer at a woman at the start of a battle, when there is a man made of Metal on the battle field. His warrior mindset will have him go after the most physically imposing opponent and that is not Jean Grey.

She doesn't need reaction time, she only needs to think. He is not faster than thought regardless of his reaction time, in the time it takes for him to throw his hammer she will have already attacked with him having no way of knowing which of the team is attacking him, which means there is no reason he would throw his hammer at her anyway.

You're saying morals on he will not throw is hammer at a woman but prove that he wouldn't do such a thing. Does anything suggest that he wont? Just because he's a man he can't hit a woman? Especially a woman that is about to try and kill him and he should know is powerful by the fact that he was put to fight her? You do know that if we are talking morals she isn't atomizing anyone right? She also isn't TPing anyone. Don't talk morals if you're hurting your whle entire arguement tremendously haha. Unless you're saying a morals off phenoix would be the same as an morals on pheonix? Or are you assuming she would do that? Like I can assume Thor would hit her?

She has to think then take action. Just as Thor has to think and take action. She thinks and atomizes and he throws his hammer. She should alreaby be dead by the time shes done with him. And you do know the hammer can hit multiple people before it hits her right? So even if he doesn't go after her first he's still going to get to her.

There is everything she to indicate she can do all of this. Scotts optic blast has a light signature and she was able to stop it before it hit her, she can shield from a shock wave created from a thunder clap. Thor's energy output did not cause as much damage as Scotts deflected blast did in X2, so this would suggest she can take a lightning bolt as well. She was telepatically battling Xavier, levitated her house, pinning multiple targets (only one that was within her line of sight) down and atomized Xavier all at the same time, not to mention she accomplished multiple tp/tk feats at the end of X2, so yeah she could create a shield and atomize multiple people.

My. God.

I asked if she can do all of these things happening to her at once. You just listen them individually. So you're saying she can tank Thors blast becuase she deflected one? And Thors hammer was able to blow away multiple trees.Please tell me how much sense that makes. I already broke this down the message before. DO YOU READ?

Who said she was still in a TP battle while she was battling Xavier? The levitating of the house isn't anything special because thats what her powers naturally do. The same thing happened in the forest with Scott. Even when she was KOd the rocks was still levitated. So its not like she was thinking "levitate these rocks". And she wasn't pinning anyone. That was from teh gravity change that was pinning them down. The houses started to lose its gravity(same with the rocks).

My points are all valid, the facts are that Cap can take a hit from the hammer and she can create a shield far greater than his. Thus she can stop his hammer from hitting her.

So many things wrong with these state emnt and tis only two lines..

Cap is a superhuman that has an insanse amount of durability and strength. She is not. Cap has an nigh indestructable or indestructable shield and she has a shield that can be broken by water. Wow.

Oh yea and you do know while she had this shield up water was still getting through right? Right.

You're trying to compare Caps body to a shield. You're saying Cap took the hit from a hammmer when he was obviously blocked by shield. You're trying to say because you can tank something you can control it. Even the Government couldn't get anything that could pick that up. It can't be picked up by just any person. She doesn't have the power to pick it up. Have you seen anyone besides Thor pick that up. Thors hammer goes straight at her and she's done. And she had to have her hand picked up to move the shield. Mjlnoir is too fast for her to have the time to pick up her hand.

@wardemon32:

Xmen win

Avengers take it. No counter to Thor or Hulk. Even Iron Man can solo. Problem is, movie X-men are just humans with kinda cool powers. Cap, Hawkeye, Black Widow, can take out anyone on that team besides Colossus.

I see Hawkeye taking out a concentrating Jean and sniping X-Men from a far. Storm can stop him, but that's where an Iron Man or Thor or Hulk comes in.

You see Hawkeye (with a bow and Arrow) taking out Jean (with tk and tp)? Jean with her full power is the counter to Thor and Hulk, they don't have strength feats to prove they can get through her tk shields, and none of the Avengers have proven tp shields or resistance.

Movie Jean yes. She sucked, and needed lots of time and focus to do ANYTHING. And she hasn't shown TP so the Avengers don't need TP defense.

No she didn't by the end of X2 she was able to access her full powers and did it effortlessly to perform multiple tk and tp feats. In X2 she used tp to discover Nightcrawler was a teleporter, probe his mind and block his powers, and speak through Xavier. In X3 she was able to block Xavier from finding her, battle him telepathically, and bombard both Cyclops and Wolverine with her thoughts to come to her from miles away, so they do need tp defense.

Blocking TP is not offensive TP. Show her using Offensive TP to incapacitate someone. She hasn't, thus they don't need TP defense.

@lordofallhumans:

Nice cop out. You can't disprove Thor throwing the hammer at her so you just say that.

I already disproved it. He has morals on and is in character. He is going into a battle against three woman and three men with no knowledge of who they are or what they can do. One of the men is made of metal, one looks like a Cyclops, and the other has metal claws coming from his hands, his first target will not be any of the women that based on first glance, will not seem like a threat. There is still the fact that if Captain America and his shield can take a hit from Thor and his hammer, Jean can considering the amount of force her shields can withstand, so even if he does target her first, her shields have proven to be strong enough to hold back more force than he was shown to generate, and her ability to raise them is as fast as she can think to raise them.

@darkraiden

Blocking TP is not offensive TP. Show her using Offensive TP to incapacitate someone. She hasn't, thus they don't need TP defense.

In your previous post you stated she hadn't shown any tp, I gave several instances to prove you are wrong. She proved that she can forcibly enter the minds of Scott and Logan from miles away compelling them to come to her, she also forcibly entered the mind of Nightcrawler and shut down his powers. These three instances are called mindrape. It's when a telepath invades your mind extracts information and plants thoughts and commands, all against your will. She also fought a telepathic battle with Xavier in the 3rd film, also showing that even if you are a powerful telepath she can still fight you with her tp and not struggle at all doing it.

So since she can enter the minds of others and force her thoughts into their minds, and fight a battle with a more experienced telepath without flinching, they will need tp defense. She could just as easily invade their minds and give any number of commands, and considering she is a physician (shown by her doing a medical exam on Wolverine in the first film and being called Dr Jean Grey, we know she has at least a basic understanding of anatomy) she could shut down various brain/bodily functions via telepathy or telekinesis.

This argument can't continue until we define what Jean can do lets say that she has X-2 pre bridge scene( since that is debatable)

Hulk is stronger than any X-man in single combat ( note not including phnoix and unsurpressed Jean)

Captain can easily solo Cyclops ( invincible shield and super strength ) and deflect his beams to use on outer X-men ( see beam deflecting scenein Avengers whit iron man)

Thor would fight Storm and crush her seeing as he is an actual god of thunder. also Storm can use tornados but Thor can do the same thing( if more limited) but storm cannotfight Thor in hand to hand combat.

Clint and Tasha would be possible factors if helping with Storm (not bullet prof and if distracted can't deflect) Cyclops ( not bullet prof) or Kitty ( if not intangible)

Wolverine is a tough one being almost immortal and nigh invulnerable but he would be countered by hulk who is equally invulnerable and a hell of a lot more powerful

Iron man would fight coleuses and win from a distance and he could pick off an stragglers with ease.

Note this is all depending on if Jean can control the Avengers or not.

If she can then the question becomes who can she control and how many can she control

Hulk would be hard if impossible to control ( limitless rage that would distract anyone in his head)

Thor might be resitent as he is a god or he might be as vulnerable ( no feats either way)

Tony would be prime TP material unless he knows what she's doing then he could put Jarvis in charge and deny her the suit

Captain I think would fight the TP but he would be vulnerable ( again no feats either way)

Blackwidow and Hawk would be easy to TP as they have no defense or powers against it ( See movie Hawkeye being controlled most of the movie)

If she is unsuppressed (dam scene) but not at phoenix level then the battle can go either way still as at the very least she would have difficulty controlling Hulk who could quite possible solo rest of the X-men possible exception of Wolverine and storm . if she dose TP him that will most likely take up most of her power. leaving the rest of the X-men against the remaining Avengers. the Avengers would win.

Lets say that she TP's outer avengers instead Hulk would be barreling down on the X-men who would lose most of their team to him (Cyclops and coleusesfor sure) and I have a hard time believing she could Tp the entirety of the Avengers so it depend on which ones she immobilizes. I say this could go either way.

Now lets say that she is in full phoenix mode this rises another issue. Morals and civilians her powers are massive and uncontrollable so there is a distinct chance that the X-men would turn on her to protect the Civis meaning that this is a moot point.

this fight would be very situational either being a blowout for the Avengers or a Jean dominated battle

Her morals are on, so there will be no risk of her harming anybody except the enemy. The ending scene in X2 was her going full "Phoenix" (as evidenced by the energy flare surrounding her body and how her eyes lit up whenever she tapped that hidden power) just without the personality taking over. Even if she had to tp them one by one she showed that she could use tk to manipulate many many tons at a time and provide power to a jet while operating it's controls, Hulk may be stronger than them all, but he was not shown to create millions of tons of force, which means Jean can hold him off, and the others while she went from mind to mind and shut things down like she did Nightcrawler, and this all with morals one based on her X2 feats.

In X2 two she was shown to be able to hear the thoughts of multiple people in the museum, this shows her entering the minds of several non-protected minds at once. She also used telepathy to communicate through Xavier and block Nightcrawlers power, there is no reason to believe that she can't enter all of their non-protected minds at once and implant thoughts instead of extracting them, since we know she can perform both telepathic feats on more than one person at a time.

@lordofallhumans:

I already disproved it. He has morals on and is in character. He is going into a battle against three woman and three men with no knowledge of who they are or what they can do. One of the men is made of metal, one looks like a Cyclops, and the other has metal claws coming from his hands, his first target will not be any of the women that based on first glance, will not seem like a threat. There is still the fact that if Captain America and his shield can take a hit from Thor and his hammer, Jean can considering the amount of force her shields can withstand, so even if he does target her first, her shields have proven to be strong enough to hold back more force than he was shown to generate, and her ability to raise them is as fast as she can think to raise them.

In character he always Throws his hammer. We haven't really seen him do anything that we could consider "out of character"

"Morals on" as in not killing? But you have Jean ripping everyones atoms apart? Double Standards. If Thor isn't going to kill she isn't either. You're just looking at this from a sexist point of view thinking that women couldn't possibly be as good as men because their women. Thats how it works right? Didn't you do this same exact thing in a different thread with Superman?

Colossus couldn't be in metal form becuase you can't activate your powers before the match starts. Cyclops just has a laser thing over his eyes. I doubt anyone would be scared of that on the Avengers because they have already dealt with stuff like that on muiltiple occasions. Wolverine shouldn't have his metal claws out befure the battle starts niether so that isn't valid. And then you're forgetting Jean? A woman with all black eyes and black veins all around her neck.

• A big buff guy(You don't know he's metal yet)
• A guy that looks like Cyclops(You already dealt with things like this before anyways so it shouldn't scare you or possibly even hurt you)
• A guy in a tank top.
• A woman that has full black eyes and black veins and looks like she needs to be in the Nut House.

I'm pretty sure about 90% of people are going to be scared of the woman with black veins and eyes.

And do you know what Captain Amerias shield is? Its Captain Americas shield! Its indestructable. How are you supposed to break something thats indestructable. Thor couldn't even break the shield in comics, what makes you think he's going to do that in the movie? And his shield abosrbs impact. And he ins't a normal human in terms of durability.

And you do realize a hammer going over 500MPH packs much more force than a hammer being swung at a few M/S right?

And again. It doesn't matter about Thors force with his hammer. The fact is that it is immovable unless Thor wants it to move should suffice. So no matter how powerful your TK shields are she can't stop the hammer.

"Whoever holds this hammer if he be worthy shall poses the power of Thor"

-Odin

It has already been stated that only someone worthy can move Mjlnoir. Jean is no where near worthy for the hammer. She couldn't stop Phenoix and when she did supress her she kept asking to die which is also a sign of weakness. So this says that no matter how powerful your TK is, you have to be worthy to control this hammer.

In character he is a warrior and a hero, he will not target women without knowledge of what they are capable of, when there are men to fight. . If Colossus comes into the battle in his normal human form and Wolverine with claws sheathed, then Bruce Banner shouldn't be able to come as the Hulk, which is his superpower to become, making it even easier for the telepath that can read his mind about what he is when he is angry to shut him down like she did Nightcrawler. His appearance is not meant to be scary, I mentioned it to illustrate that upon coming in contact with a group anybody without knowledge of said group would think to take out the metal man before they take out what appears to be normal women. Jean will not be veiny with black eyes because her Phoenix persona would considered Jean with morals off, meaning she will look like a regular women. Black eyes and veins only appear when her alter is using her powers, so you would have the men come in without powers ready, but give her the appearance she has when using her powers to try to prove that she would be attacked first? Even in human form Colossus is still the most physically imposing of all the Xmen, he would still be targeted before women, by a character like Thor.

You are the one that brought up their durability protecting them from her power to atomize things, I made it clear in a previous post that, that part of out debate was separate from the actual OP, because morals are on and I was just addressing your comment.

His hammer hitting something and not being able to get past it, has nothing to do with controlling it or moving it. Captain Americans shield was able to stop it from actually hitting Cap's body, Jean's shield will do the same thing. Didn't Thor have problems breaking special man made non-magical glass? I don't see him producing more than the millions of tons of force that Jean can withstand with his hammer to even be noticed.

avengers.

@lordofallhumans

In character he is a warrior and a hero, he will not target women without knowledge of what they are capable of, when there are men to fight. . If Colossus comes into the battle in his normal human form and Wolverine with claws sheathed, then Bruce Banner shouldn't be able to come as the Hulk, which is his superpower to become, making it even easier for the telepath that can read his mind about what he is when he is angry to shut him down like she did Nightcrawler.

No. A warrior is supposed to be one known to not underestimate his enemies because that always leads to a loss. You can't say Thor wouldn't hit her because she's a woman. As a warrior he is supposed to treat all enemies as the same threat. If she really wasn't that powerful to him he wouldn't even think she should be up there,

And no. It says "Hulk not "Bruce Banner" therefore he starts out as Hulk. Colossus on the other hand still gets called out as Colossus even in his human form becuase they are the same person. Hulk and Banner isn't truly seen as the same person in Banners terms.

His appearance is not meant to be scary, I mentioned it to illustrate that upon coming in contact with a group anybody without knowledge of said group would think to take out the metal man before they take out what appears to be normal women. Jean will not be veiny with black eyes because her Phoenix persona would considered Jean with morals off, meaning she will look like a regular women. Black eyes and veins only appear when her alter is using her powers, so you would have the men come in without powers ready, but give her the appearance she has when using her powers to try to prove that she would be attacked first? Even in human form Colossus is still the most physically imposing of all the Xmen, he would still be targeted before women, by a character like Thor.

You were just talking about appearance and now you're saying its not about appearance? And you hurt your arguement once again.

Now you've said her eyes only turn black and veins turn black when she is morals off and using her powers. You do know "Morals On" Pheonix only defended herself against TP and never atomized people right? Neither did she telepathically assult anyone. During the scene in Jeans house while she was in a TP battle with Xavier, she didn't atomize him when she had the black eyes and black veins, and this is what you consider to be a Morals On Pheonix. But when she went Morals Off she just skipped to atomizing everything around her.

And she doesn't telepathically assult anyone on the Avengers team. And since you're saying "by a character like Thor" can you actually prove his character and translate it to this battle?

You are the one that brought up their durability protecting them from her power to atomize things, I made it clear in a previous post that, that part of out debate was separate from the actual OP, because morals are on and I was just addressing your comment.

But you failed at it since Hulk can heal just as fast as Wolverine and he's more durable. And I was addressing when someone else said she atomizes people but you couldn't have just told the otehr guy she can't do it? How much sense does that make?

You do realize I told him only Phenoix was shown to atomize people meaning that I already know she can't use that in this battle right? I just said I'm pretty sure Hulk can survive it and you tried to make it out of an arguement with Juggernaut when

1. Your whole arguement was based off of hypotheticals and no actual proof
2. You couldn't prove that Juggernaut has a healing factor like Hulk
3. You couldn't prove that Juggernaut is as durable as Hulk

So you made an arguement out of something that didn't even need to be made of. It should have been dropped in teh first place.

His hammer hitting something and not being able to get past it, has nothing to do with controlling it or moving it. Captain Americans shield was able to stop it from actually hitting Cap's body, Jean's shield will do the same thing. Didn't Thor have problems breaking special man made non-magical glass? I don't see him producing more than the millions of tons of force that Jean can withstand with his hammer to even be noticed.

1. In order to move it in the slightest you would have to be able to control it
2. Captain Americas shield is indestructable and absorbs impact and thats different froma ctually thorwing the hammer in which I'm argueing.
3. Before it hit the ground him and his hammer went straight through the glass. So no, he had no problems with breakign the glass.

IDK how many times I have to say that it's not a matter of her blocking millions of tons of water(Which she just diverted it and water was still getting through) but a matter of if she is actually worthy of moving it. In the movie the military couldn't even tip it over so it does matter still. You can't prove that she is worthy enough to move Mjolnir therefore he thorws it and she's dead.

And in "real battle" all she is going todo is possibly read their minds and mind control isn't considered "in character". This renders her useless in this battle and she just watches as the rest of the X-Men die. But she wont have time to watch them die becuase she'll die from teh hammer also.

Xmen win, they have no answer for Jean or Kitty for that matter. Battle starts Jean grabs Kitty they go intangible and decimate the Avengers.

@shatiquego582: @wardemon32: lmao. First war demon

1. Why show me a picture of a truck? Are you implying size = weight because the truck is smaller than the whale....... Wow youre a funny guy.

2. That wasnt fort know nor was it gold those are bricks.... Even if they were gold again size doesnt equal weight.....how have you not learned that???

3. Yeah she didnt hold it back thats why it was split in two and rising in a circle around her then going around her.....because thats totally how water reacts normally.

Now shatique

Youre kinda slow.

I should leave iat that but for my last entry in this ridiculous thread ill indulge your idiocy once more.

1. its a lowball estimate based on the amount of water a large dam holds. But even a halh million tins is ridiculously more than anyone on the avengers have shown.

2. Learn to read t. The fact that i said by using your no feat logic on both the whale, the chitauri and the frost giants then colossus coukd do that. Meaning that as long as noone has to back any statements up with facts which is what youre doing by assuming the aforementioned parties.( the guys i already named..... Since youre a little slow) were of a higher caliber as they have no feats to assume so.

Good day sir.

@lordofallhumans:

Decimate? TP will only be used offensivly and to read minds. And you do know that Tony is a genius right? Don't you think that he would think to tell Thor to strike lightning down on Kitty and Jean so they can coutner them being intangible? And who says Kitty can get to jean before she does that?

@zr0c00l

Lol.

1. Why show me a picture of a truck? Are you implying size = weight because the truck is smaller than the whale....... Wow youre a funny guy.

No. I showed you the truck because that truck can weigh up to 100 tons. And if X is bigger than Y by about 50 times wouldn't it be common sense to say X weighs much more?

2. That wasnt fort know nor was it gold those are bricks.... Even if they were gold again size doesnt equal weight.....how have you not learned that???

I just picked out Fort because it would have been much easier to base it off of that. Being the fact that its Alien metal and made for armory I would assume that its heavier than Gold.

Do you seriously hear yourself right now?

If you couldn't make the assumption that one weighs more than the other then tell me which one looks like it weighs more to you?

I never said size equals weigh. Thats obiously not the case if a fat guy and a muscular guy can be the exact weigh even though the musclar guys looks smaller than the fat guy.

But you do realize you can calculate the weight of something right?? Its not like I was like "oh this is about 40000 pounds becuase its big!". No. I simply comapred it to the size of gold which should probably be around the same weigh or higher and figured out how much to gold would weigh if it was that size.

3. Yeah she didnt hold it back thats why it was split in two and rising in a circle around her then going around her.....because thats totally how water reacts normally.

She didn't hold it back. She just diverted teh water. If she actually held it back then the water would have been at a hault and wouldn't have flown past her. If your TK is strong enough then you can stop it as a whole.

And I'm not saying she didn't create a shield, but I'm saying she didn't actually hold the water back.

Youre kinda slow.

I should leave iat that but for my last entry in this ridiculous thread ill indulge your idiocy once more.

1. its a lowball estimate based on the amount of water a large dam holds. But even a halh million tins is ridiculously more than anyone on the avengers have shown.

2. Learn to read t. The fact that i said by using your no feat logic on both the whale, the chitauri and the frost giants then colossus coukd do that. Meaning that as long as noone has to back any statements up with facts which is what youre doing by assuming the aforementioned parties.( the guys i already named..... Since youre a little slow) were of a higher caliber as they have no feats to assume so.

Good day sir.

You REALLY shouldn't be calling anyone in this thread slow and telling them they are basically idiots. I make a calculation for how much the Leviathan should weigh and you can't accept that but you just assumeshe held back X amount of water when you can't even prove how much water was in the dam let alone how much she actually diverted?

@zr0c00l:

Wow your calling me an idiot cause I'm asking proof how colossus a guy who hasn't done shit in the x men movies can solo a chitauri whale and frost giants with no other feats outside of throwing wolverine in 3 and besting a couple armed guards things the avengers do all the time

the whole holding back the water feat is ridicoulse and shouldn't be used cause she didn't hold back the water and the rest of the water was casually flowing past not disturbed so she had enough to split 30-40 feet of water not hold back millions of gallons if jean made a physic wall then I'd say yes she stops but sense she hasn't shown such a feat so how does splitting 30-40 feet of water gonna stop a thunderclap from hulk or when thor slams mjiolner in the ground and almost levels manhattan

@wardemon32:

Decimate?

Yes, decimate.

TP will only be used offensivly and to read minds.

Exactly.

And you do know that Tony is a genius right? Don't you think that he would think to tell Thor to strike lightning down on Kitty and Jean so they can coutner them being intangible?

So being a genius allows him to know what Jean and Kitty are doing? I doubt that. Even if he did, there is no evidence lightning can counter Kitty, as there were no intangible beings on screen with Thor, nor any instance of Kitty being hit by such. This not comic book Kitty.

And who says Kitty can get to jean be she does that?

The better question is who says she can't? Either way the answer can be taken from the OP line up, it has listed Kitty right after Jean, suggesting they are already standing next to each other when the battle starts. So, Jean can grab Kitty, they go intangible and like I said Jean begins to decimate the Avengers team without a single one of them being able to touch her or Kitty.

Xmen win.

@lordofallhumans:

Yes, decimate.

You seemed to be confused when I said decimate. I was asking you how could she possibly decimate them.

Exactly.

Sorry I meant defensively not offensively. With her TP, she is only going to

• Read minds
• Communicate

So being a genius allows him to know what Jean and Kitty are doing? I doubt that. Even if he did, there is no evidence lightning can counter Kitty, as there were no intangible beings on screen with Thor, nor any instance of Kitty being hit by such. This not comic book Kitty.

If he sees them going through walls and such of course he is going to know what they are doing. And are you serious about them not being able to counter Kitty?

Seriously..your methods of debating are very poor.

1. If you want to make that arguement you have to actually prove that lightning wont effect Kitty you have to actually prove that it wont effect her.
2. According to science if something Intangible gets his by lightning/electricity its turns inagible again becuas eit would disrupt her electrons.
3. There doesn't meed to be any tangible beings in Thor, all we have to know is that he has lightning and she has intangiblity and intangibly should be able to get cancelled out by lightning.

The better question is who says she can't? Either way the answer can be taken from the OP line up, it has listed Kitty right after Jean, suggesting they are already standing next to each other when the battle starts. So, Jean can grab Kitty, they go intangible and like I said Jean begins to decimate the Avengers team without a single one of them being able to touch her or Kitty.

Xmen win.

Alright you do know this is in character right? Kitty was only shown to make people go intangible with her when theres an eminent threat.

Instance #1: When a missile was coming at her and Ice-Man.

Instance #2: Jumping out of a building with Ice-Man(To get to the battlefield).

You're trying to sue it as if she's going to automatically do this when she really isn't. If this was the case she would have done this in X-3 to make things much easier for them.....but she didn't.

And to debunk this theory again, even if she would have thought to do that, they start their fights about 6-8 feet away from each other(As shown in X-Men 3). So she would have to run about 6 feet just to touch Jean and she would have to be intangible before she reaches Jean leaving her open to get shot be a bullet, arrow, repulsor ray, or Thors hammer.

And why do you keep saying "decimate"? You're not even saying what she's going to do. I know midn raping isn't an option sicne this is in character and she really hasn't doen that and you have no proof to suggest she actually mind raped Xavier or if he let her in which he most likely did. I know atomizing people isn't an option either. So really. What is she going to do?

@wardemon32:

You seemed to be confused when I said decimate. I was asking you how could she possibly decimate them.

Not confused at all, they have no way to counter her powers, especially if she is now intangible.

Sorry I meant defensively not offensively. With her TP, she is only going to

• Read minds

• Communicate

So you are ignoring that she can use telepathy for more than defense and mind reading? She can forcibly enter minds and cut off access to parts of the mind (Nightcrawler). Nothing stops her from entering their minds and planting thoughts like she did to Scott and Logan, which in the least causes the target confusion.

If he sees them going through walls and such of course he is going to know what they are doing. And are you serious about them not being able to counter Kitty?

Seriously..your methods of debating are very poor.

1. If you want to make that arguement you have to actually prove that lightning wont effect Kitty you have to actually prove that it wont effect her.

2. According to science if something Intangible gets his by lightning/electricity its turns inagible again becuas eit would disrupt her electrons.

3. There doesn't meed to be any tangible beings in Thor, all we have to know is that he has lightning and she has intangiblity and intangibly should be able to get cancelled out by lightning

What walls? Why would they see her going through walls?

1. No you have to prove it can, it's your assertion that lightning can counter her with no evidence to back that up. My proof is she can phase and since no such attack was used there is no basis to say it can affect her.

2. According to science gamma radiation does not turn you into a Hulk, and you cannot control the elements with an enchanted hammer. And you say my debating methods are poor? Oh yeah and according to science fire melts ice, but it didn't seem to do a thing to Bobby when Pyro was going all out. Can you believe it? Movies about people that can defy real world science having things in them that actually defy science, go figure.

3. There has to be intangible beings that he has affected with lightning for your argument to hold weight. There are no instances of him doing so, so there is no basis for your claim, outside of you trying to use science while not knowing the mechanics behind movie Kittys ability to phase.

Your entire post regarding this is speculation.

Alright you do know this is in character right? Kitty was only shown to make people go intangible with her when theres an eminent threat.

Instance #1: When a missile was coming at her and Ice-Man.

Instance #2: Jumping out of a building with Ice-Man(To get to the battlefield).

You're trying to sue it as if she's going to automatically do this when she really isn't. If this was the case she would have done this in X-3 to make things much easier for them.....but she didn't.

And to debunk this theory again, even if she would have thought to do that, they start their fights about 6-8 feet away from each other(As shown in X-Men 3). So she would have to run about 6 feet just to touch Jean and she would have to be intangible before she reaches Jean leaving her open to get shot be a bullet, arrow, repulsor ray, or Thors hammer.

And why do you keep saying "decimate"? You're not even saying what she's going to do. I know midn raping isn't an option sicne this is in character and she really hasn't doen that and you have no proof to suggest she actually mind raped Xavier or if he let her in which he most likely did. I know atomizing people isn't an option either. So really. What is she going to do?

So battling a group of unknown opponents does not count as an imminent threat?

She trains to use her powers in battle simulations. Her power is to become intangible. So you would have her stand there and not use her powers in a battle as she was trained to do?

All of which is possible, especially when you have a telekinetic that can just pull you to her with a thought, or place up a wall that can take those attacks. Either way there is no precedent to prove your insistence of the distance they will be from each other is constant. In Xmen 3 they were fighting an army of rouge mutants coming in waves, so it made sense to spread out due to their limited numbers, that is not the case in this battle, as the number of opponents is equal.

The ability to go into Nightcrawlers mind and keep him from using his power is in fact mindrape, the bombarding of the mind of another with your own thoughts, is also mindrape. Mention of Xavier in previous posts was to illustrate her being able to use tp and tk at the same time without struggle. You can only speculate that he let her in, but we know for a fact that her full power (which she was accessing) is stronger than his, so an argument for her mindraping him can be made too, due to that fact.

@lordofallhumans:

Not confused at all, they have no way to counter her powers, especially if she is now intangible.

So she is going to decimate them...by becoming intangible?

So you are ignoring that she can use telepathy for more than defense and mind reading? She can forcibly enter minds and cut off access to parts of the mind (Nightcrawler). Nothing stops her from entering their minds and planting thoughts like she did to Scott and Logan, which in the least causes the target confusion.

So how is she using this against Hulk? The guy who fules on anger? What? Is she going to cut off his anger? And Thor, what can she possibly do to him? Cut off his powers too? She can somehow cut off someones superstrength and worthiness?

What walls? Why would they see her going through walls?

1. No you have to prove it can, it's your assertion that lightning can counter her with no evidence to back that up. My proof is she can phase and since no such attack was used there is no basis to say it can affect her.

The walls while she is moving around obviously. Or when Thor thors his hammer?

I'm using actual science to counter your arguement, Thor has lightning so if he sees that kitty has intangibility he can strike her with it. Thats actual science. You can't disprove it unless you actually show her gettign hit by lightning or electroctued and having no effects.

2. According to science gamma radiation does not turn you into a Hulk, and you cannot control the elements with an enchanted hammer. And you say my debating methods are poor?

What? Are you trying to say my arguements are poor based off of how the writers made his power? Where are you trying tog et at with this?

And hell yes your debating methods are poor

• I use science to counter intangibility and your response is tellign me to prove that it can effect her when tis suppossed to be your job to rpove that. How much sense would it make to prove that lightning can effect her?
• I saw Juggernaut has a low durability comapred to Hulk/Thor and you stick with teh arguement he has a "high" durability but you can't prove it.
• Every time you say "Theres nothing to suggest A and B" but all of your arguemetns have been off of assumptions.
• You contradict your own ways of rebuttals. You say that Kitty wouldn't be effected by lightning because she hasn't been shown to but I say Jean can't stop Thors hammer and you say "that isn't valid because he hasn't been shown to go up agaisnt a person with TK". If thats the case would I be able to say "Electrocution would be able to work since she hasn't beens shown to go up agaisnt any person with TK"?

Lol listen to yourself. If people debated like you it would be impossible to determine a winner unless they ran into a certain scenario without using any logic and reasoning.

3. There has to be intangible beings that he has affected with lightning for your argument to hold weight. There are no instances of him doing so, so there is no basis for your claim, outside of you trying to use science while not knowing the mechanics behind movie Kittys ability to phase.

Your entire post regarding this is speculation.

1. So you yourself doesn't know her mechnaics of phasing but you still try to say that she wont be effected by lightning when you yourself doesn't know either?
2. You do realize if you don't know you would have to speak generally right? Meaning that she would be effected by Thors lightning.
3. "There has to be intangible beings that he has effected with by lightning for your arguement to hold weigh"? Do you realize the contradiction? For a person who makes a whole bunch of contradictions in his arguements you would figure that you realize them from time to time. You do know that his lightning is still lightning right? This would still mean she would be effected by his lightnign because it would be just the same as any other lightnign but magical giving it its benefits. And just a few messages ago you said I have to know her mechanics but then I have to prove him doing it to a different intangible person? How much sense does that make being that that intangible person he just struck may have different mechanics than her making the feat useless in your own terms? Come on.
4. If the only thing we can rely on is "speculation" which is backed up behind science then wouldn't it make more sense to follow this than you saying "we havent seen it so we dont know". Thats like saying we've seen a missile hit a computer but we don't know what effects it would have when it hits a TV.

So battling a group of unknown opponents does not count as an eminent threat?

She trains to use her powers in battle simulations. Her power is to become intangible. So you would have her stand there and not use her powers in a battle as she was trained to do?

When I said "eminent threat" in context I obviously meant that when something if flying their way and she needs saving. Other than that she wont do it.

And how come when she faced this unknown group of opponents that was an eminent threat she didn't do this? Would this qualift as "in character" to not do something like this? Therefore your arguement is out of the window and you admitted it.

All of which is possible, especially when you have a telekinetic that can just pull you to her with a thought, or place up a wall that can take those attacks. Either way there is no precedent to prove your insistence of the distance they will be from each other is constant. In Xmen 3 they were fighting an army of rouge mutants coming in waves, so it made sense to spread out due to their limited numbers, that is not the case in this battle, as the number of opponents is equal.

Can you show Jean pulling someone with her telekinetic power(ShadowCat) and using her to become intangible? If nto then that isn't in character.

And listen to your sceanio and your own contradiction(another oen of course)

ShadowCat doesn't know the Avengers powers. Out of no where without warning someone picks her up with TK and she doesn't know who it is but she knows Jean has TK. Would it make sense to just take your chances and say Jean is doing it? No it wouldn't. This is when Shadowcat goes intangible in defense still leaving Jean to be hit.

And it makes sense to bunch up close with one another? What sense does this make? Show me them having a battle with them just standing right next to each other. If you can't show it then its not in character.

The ability to go into Nightcrawlers mind and keep him from using his power is in fact mindrape, the bombarding of the mind of another with our own thoughts, is also mindrape. Mention of Xavier in previous posts was to illustrate her being able to use tp and tk at the same time without struggle. You can only speculate that he let her in, but we know for a fact that her full power (which she was accessing) is stronger than his, so an argument for her mindraping him can be made too, due to that fact.

She would have to do this more than once to even qualify as "in character". If she hasn't then everything you are saying is totally ireelvant. And you can't prove that that whole Nightcrawler thing would work on anyone on the team therefore it is irrelevant. And that whole "confusing" arguement wouldn't really work on Tony since he has Jarvis.

And aren't you speculating that she actually mind raped Xavier? She didn't do that at her "full power" and we didn't see her do anything with her "full power" in X-2 and X-2 feats are irrelevant. She didn't access it until after the ship was lifting off. Even if this is in character. Her going PHenoix on purpose wouldn't be in character. Is that more irrelevance I smell?

Now I'll use your own logic within your arguements. Don't even bother to counter what I said up top becuase I already destroyed your whole silly arguement. Just prove what I'm asking you to prove.

• Prove that Jean is capable of stopping magical lightning with her TK(And don't try to cry out saying that it isn't amgical when Thors powers is based around magic and before you tried to say Juggernaut has a magical aura around him when you couldn't prove he has one. Just pointing that out before you contradict yourself and I have to take time breaking down what you said to you.)
• Prove that Jean is capable of stopping a Magical Enchanted hammer that is full control of someone else.
• Prove that Jean is capable of cutting off someones power that isn't a "mutant" from her TP.
• Prove that Jean can effect someones worthiness with her TP(Thor).
• Prove that Jean should be worthy enough to actually move Mjolnir.
• Prove that she can stop Hulk from being angry.
• Prove that in character the X-Men don't start about 6-8 feet away when having a serious and important battle.
• Prove that in character Jean will bring Kitty next to her at the start of a match using TK.
• Prove that in character Kitty will think to run straight to Jean and make her go intangible.

Keep in mind that if you can't even prove the first two then Avengers automatically win. Good day and good luck :)

@wardemon32 said:

@lordofallhumans:

Not confused at all, they have no way to counter her powers, especially if she is now intangible.

So she is going to decimate them...by becoming intangible?

So you are ignoring that she can use telepathy for more than defense and mind reading? She can forcibly enter minds and cut off access to parts of the mind (Nightcrawler). Nothing stops her from entering their minds and planting thoughts like she did to Scott and Logan, which in the least causes the target confusion.

So how is she using this against Hulk? The guy who fules on anger? What? Is she going to cut off his anger? And Thor, what can she possibly do to him? Cut off his powers too? She can somehow cut off someones superstrength and worthiness?

What walls? Why would they see her going through walls?

1. No you have to prove it can, it's your assertion that lightning can counter her with no evidence to back that up. My proof is she can phase and since no such attack was used there is no basis to say it can affect her.

The walls while she is moving around obviously. Or when Thor thors his hammer?

I'm using actual science to counter your arguement, Thor has lightning so if he sees that kitty has intangibility he can strike her with it. Thats actual science. You can't disprove it unless you actually show her gettign hit by lightning or electroctued and having no effects.

2. According to science gamma radiation does not turn you into a Hulk, and you cannot control the elements with an enchanted hammer. And you say my debating methods are poor?

What? Are you trying to say my arguements are poor based off of how the writers made his power? Where are you trying tog et at with this?

And hell yes your debating methods are poor

• I use science to counter intangibility and your response is tellign me to prove that it can effect her when tis suppossed to be your job to rpove that. How much sense would it make to prove that lightning can effect her?
• I saw Juggernaut has a low durability comapred to Hulk/Thor and you stick with teh arguement he has a "high" durability but you can't prove it.
• Every time you say "Theres nothing to suggest A and B" but all of your arguemetns have been off of assumptions.
• You contradict your own ways of rebuttals. You say that Kitty wouldn't be effected by lightning because she hasn't been shown to but I say Jean can't stop Thors hammer and you say "that isn't valid because he hasn't been shown to go up agaisnt a person with TK". If thats the case would I be able to say "Electrocution would be able to work since she hasn't beens shown to go up agaisnt any person with TK"?

Lol listen to yourself. If people debated like you it would be impossible to determine a winner unless they ran into a certain scenario without using any logic and reasoning.

3. There has to be intangible beings that he has affected with lightning for your argument to hold weight. There are no instances of him doing so, so there is no basis for your claim, outside of you trying to use science while not knowing the mechanics behind movie Kittys ability to phase.

Your entire post regarding this is speculation.

1. So you yourself doesn't know her mechnaics of phasing but you still try to say that she wont be effected by lightning when you yourself doesn't know either?
2. You do realize if you don't know you would have to speak generally right? Meaning that she would be effected by Thors lightning.
3. "There has to be intangible beings that he has effected with by lightning for your arguement to hold weigh"? Do you realize the contradiction? For a person who makes a whole bunch of contradictions in his arguements you would figure that you realize them from time to time. You do know that his lightning is still lightning right? This would still mean she would be effected by his lightnign because it would be just the same as any other lightnign but magical giving it its benefits. And just a few messages ago you said I have to know her mechanics but then I have to prove him doing it to a different intangible person? How much sense does that make being that that intangible person he just struck may have different mechanics than her making the feat useless in your own terms? Come on.
4. If the only thing we can rely on is "speculation" which is backed up behind science then wouldn't it make more sense to follow this than you saying "we havent seen it so we dont know". Thats like saying we've seen a missile hit a computer but we don't know what effects it would have when it hits a TV.

So battling a group of unknown opponents does not count as an eminent threat?

She trains to use her powers in battle simulations. Her power is to become intangible. So you would have her stand there and not use her powers in a battle as she was trained to do?

When I said "eminent threat" in context I obviously meant that when something if flying their way and she needs saving. Other than that she wont do it.

And how come when she faced this unknown group of opponents that was an eminent threat she didn't do this? Would this qualift as "in character" to not do something like this? Therefore your arguement is out of the window and you admitted it.

All of which is possible, especially when you have a telekinetic that can just pull you to her with a thought, or place up a wall that can take those attacks. Either way there is no precedent to prove your insistence of the distance they will be from each other is constant. In Xmen 3 they were fighting an army of rouge mutants coming in waves, so it made sense to spread out due to their limited numbers, that is not the case in this battle, as the number of opponents is equal.

Can you show Jean pulling someone with her telekinetic power(ShadowCat) and using her to become intangible? If nto then that isn't in character.

And listen to your sceanio and your own contradiction(another oen of course)

ShadowCat doesn't know the Avengers powers. Out of no where without warning someone picks her up with TK and she doesn't know who it is but she knows Jean has TK. Would it make sense to just take your chances and say Jean is doing it? No it wouldn't. This is when Shadowcat goes intangible in defense still leaving Jean to be hit.

And it makes sense to bunch up close with one another? What sense does this make? Show me them having a battle with them just standing right next to each other. If you can't show it then its not in character.

Now I'll use your own logic within your arguements. Don't even bother to counter what I said up top becuase I already destroyed your whole silly arguement. Just prove what I'm asking you to prove.

• Prove that Jean is capable of stopping magical lightning with her TK(And don't try to cry out saying that it isn't amgical when Thors powers is based around magic and before you tried to say Juggernaut has a magical aura around him when you couldn't prove he has one. Just pointing that out before you contradict yourself and I have to take time breaking down what you said to you.)
• Prove that Jean is capable of stopping a Magical Enchanted hammer that is full control of someone else.
• Prove that Jean is capable of cutting off someones power that isn't a "mutant" from her TP.
• Prove that Jean can effect someones worthiness with her TP(Thor).
• Prove that Jean should be worthy enough to actually move Mjolnir.
• Prove that she can stop Hulk from being angry.
• Prove that in character the X-Men don't start about 6-8 feet away when having a serious and important battle.
• Prove that in character Jean will bring Kitty next to her at the start of a match using TK.
• Prove that in character Kitty will think to run straight to Jean and make her go intangible.

Keep in mind that if you can't even prove the first two then Avengers automatically win. Good day and good luck :)

The Xmen win. I am no longer giving play by plays of how they win. She is a telepath, we have feats of her using telepathy to do what telepaths do (read minds and manipulate minds), this is all the proof needed to say she can enter their minds and do as she pleases. She does not need to be shown making a person fight their team when we know she can use telepathy to force people to do things like not teleport or to come to her. There is ZERO evidence that Hulk can fight her telepathy based on the movie, there his zero evidence any of them can, there is however evidence that she is more powerful than a telepath that can freeze an entire museum of people and that she can enter any non-protected mind.

Xmen win, until you provide proof that Thor and Hulk can create more than at least a million tons of force and that they are immune to telepathy, or that Thors lightning is magical and not just regular lightning summoned by magic (if it were some form of esoteric lightning Tonys armor would not have been able to process it the way it can regular electricity) and you can't because they haven't. So from here on out anything you post in this thread to me will be met with...

Xmen win..see previous post as to why.

Good night

X-Men wins by a loooooooonngggg shot The Avengers were portrayed as really weak imo

The X-Men win by a long shot The Avengers movie severely depowered each of the team members

@lordofallhumans:

So you know you couldn't disprove point 1 or 2 like I asked you to so you just try and give up instead of admitting Avengers win? Nice one. And I never said Jean couldn't us TP. I just said she really wouldn't be using it offensively or for it to have any relevance. And so what if Xavier forze a museum? There's different aspects to the telepathy just like there is to teh speedforce(something comapreable) and she hasn't been shown to freeze anyone. Lets just say....your arguement is based off of speculation

You can't prove that anything with manipualting minds was "in character" therefore it couldn't be used and instead of you saying Avengers win you choose to give up. I didn't even ask for you to coutner that whoel emssage. Just mainly prove teh first two bullet points and you well..gave up. Beucase you know you couldn't and have too much of an ego to admit when you're wrong.

Wouldn't each one still amke it magical? It should still work in the same way as regular lightning but theoretically it should be stronger. He only charged Iron-Mans suit instead of actually shocking Iron-Man.

But I accept your humble concession that you refuse to admit:)

Xmen win..see previous post as to why

@lordofallhumans:

Lol X-Men win becuase you have too big of an ego to admit you're terrible at using logic and reasoning(basically debating as a whole) and your ego is just too big for your won good.

You're right. X-Men TOTALLY wins.

Xmen win..see previous post as to why

@lordofallhumans:

I did. X-Men totally wins. I obviously admitted it and I'm obviusly not using sarcasm so no need to tell me!

@wardemon32: Xmen win..see previous post as to why

@lordofallhumans:

You're right

avengers

Assuming jean grey has the Phoenix because in the third movie she does

A very hard fight and a very close one. it is also a little bit unfair since the X-men were sort of "depowered" in the movies it did not show their true potential.

I think Jean Grey's telepathy can take care most of the avengers. i mean kitty would just hold jean grey and use her telepathy against them without being hurt. Natasha and Hawkeye would be useless in this fight. Storm can just use her winds to deflect the arrows while knocking Natasha out. wolverine will keep Captain America occupied and Cyclops will keep Ironman occupied. Same goes to Hulk with Colossus. Thor and Storm will fight, i know thor is much stonger and more durable than her but storm is very good with long range attacks so i think she will keep him occupied while Jean finishes them all off.

But there are numerous ways this battle can go but i think X-men will win because of Jeans telepathy or the Phoenix

@shatiquego582: not until in the end however if she tapped into it she would have made it seem like it was easy

jean could take hulk, storm and Wolverine could take thor, cyclops and shadow cat could take black widow and hawkeye, Collosus and beast could take iron man.

This fight is overwhelmingly in the X-Mens favor for these reasons. Also is there a reason you left out key members from the x-men movies?

1.) The X-men in their movies have shown to be far better at team work than the Avengers were and who just kind of split up and played to their strengths based off of Cap's orders and the X-men in all of their fights work together often combining powers to overcome an enemies advantage, they do it in all their movies.

2.) Jean Grey could instantly reduce the team to one person, Thor. That's even assuming that he could stand up to her telepathy which neither have shown anything to suggest that. To those saying the movie Hulk couldn't be controlled are ignoring that he has never been shown to resist telepathy in any of his films, but has several times been goaded, distracted, manipulated and even calmed down while in Hulk form across his three film appearances. There is more evidence to support someone as powerful as Jean being able to effect him with telepathy.

3.) Fire power is also in the X-mens favor with Jean, Scott, and Storm. Ironman would be totally vulnerable to both Jean and Scott and for those saying that Ironman could beat him are in denial or huge fanboys because Scott in the X-men movies has shown not only to have incredible aim and reflexes to hit moving targets but his optic blast is the most powerful blast of any character from either movie. Honestly the repulsor beams Ironman fires are pathetic by comparison. Cyclops would blast him from the Sky and destroy his armor with his optic blast which was strong enough to destroy a reinforced dam when jean deflected it. Jean has Telepathy and very powerful tk, as stated before she deflected Scott's beam when he dailed his visor all the way up. Show would toss around all the Avengers herself. Storm who can conjure lightning far faster than Thor can as he has to raise his hammer and channel it their first then point and shoot. Storm simply shoots it from her hands as illustrated in the third movie, she has also been shown to be able to whip up gale force winds in an instant she would make it impossible for Hawkeye to shoot an arrow off and from the sky she would wreck the Avengers on the ground .

@pantherman: I don't think this is in anyone's favor this can go either way cause the avengers have good fire power and wolverines durability and h2h is not on par with caps as we've seen and no one has shown the ability to dish out as much strength as hulk and and thor and also jean grey hasn't shown the ability to mind rape so please don't use that ok and unless you have a video that proves this wrong then it's not valid although jean has only shown to make psychic barriers but those aren't huge and have barley been enough to block cyclops blasts and diverted 20-40 feet of water also if tony hits any of the xmen with a repulser blast their done no mutant has shown durability over gunshots except wolverine depending on where they hit and colluses and Jean isn't going to Tap into her Phoneix powes off the bat unless they are on that back burner then she won't use it unless they are about to die or loose and the x men haven't shown sophisticated team work and storm admitted this was admitted by storm in x men 3 when she and shown in the beginning when they were all over the place and getting pushed back in the training room the x men do have more experience working together and have more combat experience working as a team but in fire power and skill it varies on team mates I'd say the big hitter for the avengers are thor hulk and iron man in mark 7 armor and the heavy hitter for the x men are wolverine colluses cyclops and maybe jean if she's pushed in her Phoneix mode but till then she's as about as useful as cap is to the avengers due to her powers being unpredictable and having little combat and h2h experience and panicking

@njones5: jean hasn't shown that level of skill to handle hulk on her own due to blonsky who was a peek human could barley take him and jean is no where near peek human storm and wolverine could probably take wolverine until thor throws mjiolner into wolverines chest and and blasts storm with lighting storm takes 5 secs to blast lighting and thor about the same so she might be able to counter it but storm hasn't shown to demonstrate lighting blasts on par with thor due to thor taking out multiple chitauri wales and infantry with a single blow and beast isn't in this battle so no and how is colluses going to get to tony if he's in the air but colluses could tank slit of Tonys arsenal but if tony has that missile he used to destroy the tank in iron man 1 then maybe he could beat him

Storm is going to do one of two things. She either uses wind, rain, freeze, etc. to render Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Captain America all much less effective or she has to match Thor on the weather control front. A Thor using his power to counter Storm is a Thor who isn't using his power to blast the X-Men and whichever Avenger (probably Hulk) has been mind-controlled into attacking him.

In the time it take's Hulk's rage to really push Jean's TP, her TK; Cyclop's blasts; and Colossus's muscles have taken down Iron Man. Meanwhile Wolverine and Kitty and largely immune to whatever the street level Avengers can throw at them and eventually winning that fight (more easily with Storm's help).

Then everybody gangs up on Thor. Then everybody gangs up on Hulk. Then the X-Men win.

@shatiquego582: Jean Grey used her powers in X-2 to prevent Nightcrawler from using his abilities. She was entering the minds of a museum full of people without even trying at the beginning of the movie and not to mention her tk far outclasses anything the avengers have she is the powerhouse here. Jean used her Tk to hold up a wall of water that had to way several hundred thousand if not millions of tons. She deflected an open visor blast from Scott which is very impressive. Also quit underplaying her as the phoenix its getting annoying, never once was she scared as the phoenix and why would she h2h fight? That just saps any credibility you have, she disintegrated everything around her and she was completely fearless and ruthless.

Stop talking up the strength of Ironmans repulsar blast because they are not that strong. He could even hurt those freaks in ironman 3 with them. Scotts optic blast far outclasses Ironmans rays.

Jean would mentally destroy this team the Avengers stand no chance against the superior teamwork and power set of the X-men.

@shatiquego582: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFnZg8xHF_I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9azEjvVwEuk

These two alone have better showings than any Avenger.

@pantherman: @gaztacular: now that Jean soloing is confirmed I would like to make a case of the others still winning...

1- Kitty can take and beat Hulk we know she can phase very well, in X2 she phased Strikers documents out of his safe so can hulk regenerate a heart? Or she can bury him deep underground like she did to Jugs. He has no way of hurting her.

2- Sadly Thor doesn't have the weather control to combat storm and X2 we so Storm flash freeze Xavier to save humans. Also in Thor we so frost giants freeze Asgardians in the intro to the movie hence she can also freeze Thor. In the least she can old him in combat til all the other guys come to help.

3- tony just has no chance against Scott IM armors where destroyed by meta humans so one blast Tonys dead and Scott displayed quicker reaction Time

4- Logan vs Cap is a big battle on its own but eventually Logan wins, the guy ripped at his own heart and still defeated a samurai

5- Colossus does mop up with hawk eye and widow

6- then they all take on Thor

See even without the plot device ( Jean) Xmen still win. I don't see how hulk can be kitty and that's a decider for me.

@pantherman: I honestly hate repeating myself but I'll do it it again jean has not shown the ability to mind rape in battle but her tk is impressive but she didn't hold back the water cause it was still flowing past the x jet and her also cyclops blast are more powerful and jean wouldn't tap into the phoniex energy cause she was trying her hardest to gain control in the movie and she was fighting using it also and jean had trouble sending a missle of course cause it still hit the x jet iron man lifted a missle into a worm hole and it takes a lot put of her to focus on two things so while she is holding hulk back the rest of the avengers will take her out jean is not going to go all out unless the x men are about to die like at the end of x2

@thanosii:

1:kitty is jot gonna run at hulk and rip his heart out cause she was afraid of juggernaut and movie juggernaut is weaker then movie hulk cause they could make a jail cell for juggernaut hulks was a ment to drop from 50000 feet in the air so they could kill him and they doubted that would work and kitty isn't gonna rush hulk she's gonna go for a opening

2: while cyclops blasts are more powerful he isn't the best at aiming at moving targets like lady deathstrike in x men 2 so if tony can maneuver well he can handle cyclops

3:thor vs storm can do either way but it won't be a stomp besides frost giants can create colder temps then storm has been able to produce and If she can she can freeze her team and herself

4:Logan and cap will make a good fight but I think cap will take it after a good fight only cause cap has shown to be a better fighter then Logan

5: colluses could solo hawkeye and widow with ease

6: the avengers will last longer then that and I'm sure it won't be that easy of a fight

How do you define mindrape? Keeping somebody from using their power is mindrape when you're a telepath. She willingly tapped her "phoenix power" at the end of X2, and as an 11 year old girl tapped it as she pleased. When she was 11 without Xavier she tapped it, when she was older and broke his blocks (just like he was never there like when she was 11) she tapped her power. She only had trouble with the second missile because her blocks came back on. If you insist the Avengers are so powerful (clearly more powerful than a missile), why wouldn't she think her team is going to die? So by your logic wouldn't she tap her full power?

@shatiquego582: 1. In a battle characters fight to the best of their abilities. Is it within Kitty's powers to bury hulk? Yes, so she will. Saying she won't is not a feat because I can also ask you to show me a scene when Thor or hulk killed unarmed people. You need to counter my characters powers not say she won't use her power because we know she can. Hulk still loses to kitty

2. Really please highlight me the one instance when Cyke missed, because he did hit Deathstrike but she recover because of her healing factor and cheapshotted him. To wont have that luck. You are again hoping my character won't use their powers as opposed to how your character can counter

3. Storm can flash freeze she used that power and Thor can be frozen bu like I said she doesn't have to beat him just hold him until Cykes or Kitty come to help

4. Sorry but did Cp fight anyone whose on deathstrike level and win? Whose on Sabretooth level, whose a Samurai master or a ninja? Cap does not have better fighting skills, Logan outclasses him in that department plus Steve has no way to put Logan down so he loses eventually

5. Glad we agree

6. See above using best of their abilities the Xmen still win, add Phoenix and its a stomp

@shatiquego582:

You are making no sense.

Cyclops has shown in all the movies to have wonderful aim. There is even a scene in the first X movie of him shooting skeet targets wizzing through the air. Iron man in all three movies has been shown as very cumbersome on the ground and has been hit several times while airborne, even by a fireworks. Cyclops can hit him easily and blow him to pieces.

Storm nearly instantly changed the weather from light to dark, instantly dropping a room to temps so cold no one but her could move. She can instantly call lighting from the sky or her hands and she has been shown to summon powerful winds in an instant in a variety of manners. She freezes Hawkeye and Widow out of the fight right away and cripples Captain America.

Jean can easily affect the minds of anyone in this fight. She telepathically stopped nightcrawler from using his abilities. She also read logans mind several times in the first movie and in x-3 she was shown to be equal to charles xavier when she was just a child. She stomps by herself alone. Also you keep saying she won't go phoenix because shes fighting the Avengers. All the times in the movie she used it when she was in difficult or stressful situations. Its well within her movie character to use the phoenix against the avengers.

Scott could simply have Jean levitate everyone in place for him to blow away. She has more than strong enough TK to do it.