Avengers vs xmen (movie version)

@wardemon32: No. We saw that Iron Man was in control of his suits in the 3rd movie. At no point during the Avengers did he demonstrate this skill. Seriously, I would think if he had control over all his suits he would've brought em out when fighting a giant army of aliens with giant flying turtles. So he cannot have that skill here.

Also, even without Pheonix mode, Jean has had enough force to stop Cyclops' beam at full blast.

OK, even if Jean doesn't go for Thor, she will go for someone else. The rest of the team can take Thor with some difficulty.

@gularte2000:

No. We saw that Iron Man was in control of his suits in the 3rd movie. At no point during the Avengers did he demonstrate this skill. Seriously, I would think if he had control over all his suits he would've brought em out when fighting a giant army of aliens with giant flying turtles. So he cannot have that skill here.

No you don't understand. He said "Avengers" becuase he was trying to add in Thor and the rest of them.As in current RIGHT NOW, so Iron-Man has his suits. He's not talking avengers mvoe time, he's talking about all of the characters in CURRENT STATE. Iron-Man 3 is "current state".

One of the rules on comicvine is when you say the character in a thread you debate the current one unless to OP says you can't. I already know it was Avengers then Iron-Man 3 but even in Iron-Man 3 the avengers STILL exist.

If it was the way you try to put it I would be able to say Cyclops doesn't have his glasses to control his laser beam.

So yes. I can use that skill here.

Also, even without Pheonix mode, Jean has had enough force to stop Cyclops' beam at full blast.

I didn't say she didn't. Thats not really a strong point anyways being that she can't stop Thors hammer no matter what her TK is or shes not really holding backa moving Hulk. But she should die really quick becuase Thor usually throws his hammer and if it hits her shes automatically dead.

OK, even if Jean doesn't go for Thor, she will go for someone else. The rest of the team can take Thor with some difficulty.

No. Just no. The rest of the team can take Thor? Are you crazy?

1. Cyclops heat vision wont work on Thor.
2. Colossus is no where near Thor in terms of Strength/Speed/Durability
3. Kitty and her intangibility wont work being that Iron-Man should be smart enough to realize the only way to hit her is to summon lightning. Besides that what can she POSSIBLY do? She met Juggernaut and she just ran away...
4. What the hell is storm even going to do?
5. Wolverine gets pounded on

And I'm still seeing no feats for Jean. Basically none of her TK feats are actually relevant and no one can show her TP feats...

@wardemon32: Well then wouldn't he be like at the very end of Iron Man where he didn't have his suits anymore? That would be the most current Iron Man...

And if we were using the most current, recent state, would we not be using Dark Pheonix? I just think it would be hypocritical if that wasn't the case.

1. Cyclops can easily realize this and go for someone else, maybe Iron Man or Hawkeye or someone.

2. Colossus can take on Hulk.

3. Well, yeah, nothing stops the Juggernaut! But morals on I agree, she wouldn't do much...

4. Storm is going to summon lightning on people like Cap.

5. Wolverine goes for Thor.

Jean can take out people like Hawkeye and Widow first, then take the rest.

@gularte2000:

Well then wouldn't he be like at the very end of Iron Man where he didn't have his suits anymore? That would be the most current Iron Man...

This is true. So Colossus laser vision which would possibly lead to killing his own team mates and Iron-Man has a suit that most likely can be controlled by Jarvis so TPing him would still be useless.

Either way it ends bad for X-Men.

And if we were using the most current, recent state, would we not be using Dark Pheonix? I just think it would be hypocritical if that wasn't the case.

Because "Dark Phenoix" and "Jean Grey" are classified as two different people. While in comparison to Iron-Man, "Iron-Man 3" and "Avengers Iron-Man" are classified as the SAME PERSON. Pheonix is an entity.

1. Cyclops can easily realize this and go for someone else, maybe Iron Man or Hawkeye or someone.

Yes and by that time he would be dead. What he's just going to skip around the whole time when he's about to get his ass kicked?

1:48-2:00: Thor redirects all of the blast.

2:01: The blast....

2. Colossus can take on Hulk.

Feats to show for him?

• Hulk throws a tank which is about 20 tons about 1-3 miles.
• Hulk can take bullets from an F-35
• One shotted *whateverthatthingwascalled*
• Fell from the Avengers helicopter and still survived the fall. They were severeal thousand feet in the air or so.

Any video proof or reasoning on how Colusses possibly last two second with Hulk? Let alone hurt him?

3. Well, yeah, nothing stops the Juggernaut! But morals on I agree, she wouldn't do much...

She could have beaten him if she pulled him straight through the floor restricting his movement.

4. Storm is going to summon lightning on people like Cap.

This is true. But theres also a high possibility she tries to do this to Tony and that wont work out too well for her. And whats stopping him from just KOing her with his shield?

But I don't recall her actually hitting people with this lighting excpet when she used it from her hands. That wouldn't be very effective since Captian America can block that with his shield.

5. Wolverine goes for Thor.

Wolverine couldn't do anything to Thor. Thor easily beats him....

Jean can take out people like Hawkeye and Widow first, then take the rest.

I'm confused on who she is actually going after now. You have her going against everyone as soon as you can't prove she beats X character. She takes out Hawkeye and Widow. Hulk and Thor easily takes out Colossus and Wolverine. Iron-Man takes out whoever else is standing.

Avengers ftw.

wolverine beats captain america , hulk beats colossus thor can beat cyclops and storm at the same time, then its hawkeye and widow and ironman vs jean and kitty, but hulk and thor would win in like a minute so thor hulk ironman hawkeye and widow vs wolverine jean and kitty avengers win easily

I want to say X-men simply because they have Jean. The fact that she held off Xavier and Nightcrawler's attempts to get to her, controlling a massive sophisticated piece of hardware and diverting a massive wall of water at the same time is pretty impressive. Heck she made Xavier her puppet. I thought he was going to make out with Cyclops at the end of the second movie! As far as everyone else? I have no idea. Colossus didn't do anything in the movies so we don't even know what he's capable of. Wolverine would pretty much demolish anyone silly enough to get close to him.

The Avengers have a ranged advantage, but I still think Jean can work over everyone on their roster.

Colossus is almost a non-factor here, he saw him break through a wall in X2. To the best of my knowledge that's it. Since it's movie characters only, for all we know he's not nearly as strong or capable as his comic counterpart. Everyone in the battle forum always seems big into feats, and Colossus is featless. We can't even assume he'd beat Black Widow.

Jean is the biggest threat, as none of the Avengers has TP resistance. But she's limited to X1 and X2, since it's no Phoenix. As far as I know she didn't show the ability to mentally attack more than one person at once, but if she can she can probably pull this off.

Assuming she can't, I think Avengers.

@granitesoldier: I don't even remember her mind raping anyone can you send me a video

You'll have to forgive quality of the video, but here's what we're referring to. She didn't mind rape anyone. It wasn't needed...Although she did divert a massive wall of water, take control of the blackbird and stop anyone from being able to get near her.

@rickbarry:

She theres no proof to say she can mind rape anyone? Or even seriously hurt them TP wise? And I don't see why people keep bringing up that feats with the Dam when she can't stop Thors hammer no matter what her TK powers are.

@wardemon32:

I just labeled her the biggest threat. I did say Avengers win.

Ok everyone stop saying jean mind ropes cause their is no proof she can even in xmen 3 I don't recall her mind raping anyone

@granitesoldier:

What can she possible do besides use TK? That's the only thing that would be the most effective and it wont be any help when theres a hammer coming straight towards her.

@wardemon32:

Jean stopped people and massive water walls from touching her, she may not be able to stop Mjolnir but she may very well divert it. And why is everyone jumping on that point? Read my posts. Every word. Avengers win Jean is their biggest threat.

@granitesoldier:

Jean stopped people and massive water walls from touching her, she may not be able to stop Mjolnir but she may very well divert it.

She's not diverting anything becuase that would grant her control of it. Mjolnir is going straight at her and she can't do anything about it. I don't think any of them is much of a threat. At least Wolverine because he can atleast do some damage and slick someone up.

Jean can basically level the opposite group apart giving time for her team to attack. She can easily take out Hawkeye, BW, and Captain America. Telekinetically lifting them and causing them to freeze in motion, while Cyclops or Storm do something like blast them? Theoretically this method can be applied to all the Avengers including Iron Man, Hulk, and Thor.

Thor hasn't done anything to other than summon lightning from what I remembered. Caps shield has also stood his hammer I believe... if the above tactic fails, highly doubt it sense Jean would probably sense danger their way and locate them. She did so with Nightcrawler when she pin-pointed his location for Storm and with Cyclops, enough time to push Magneto and Mystique out of the way. She could basically 'steal' the others weapon like caps shield and use it for her own self, while the group team up on Thor or Hulk which ever way you guys see it.

@excella: jean couldn't hold back a flood let alone mjiolner witch weighs as much a star nor does she have the strength to go to do the same for hulk the guy was destroying F-18 and tossing tanks like lego pieces and is a 100 toner at the start and gets stronger the angrier he gets and jean has no combat feats I mean her blocking Cyclopes beams is PIS to the max and this is movie jean in xmen 1-2 has she ever shown and effectiveness with weapons cause I don't remember video please

I've always had a problem with how much they say Mjolnir weighs. If it weighs a few trillion tons then why doesn't it go through a table when it's set down or crush Loki's chest when it's put there? It doesn't make sense even in the comic world.

Avengers would win.

@rickbarry: well Loki is a god so the weight shouldn't affect him but the table part idk

If she couldn't hold back a flood, then what exactly was her telekinetic wall doing to keep the jet from being destroyed? There were hundreds of tons of water crashing down on her, enough to destroy a dam and a forest. Jean survived because her tk created a cocoon that took the full force of those hundreds of tons. Neither Hulk nor Thor has generated as much force it takes to destroy as much as that water in X2 did in one shot (not that I've seen), and even if they did her tk withstood it and didn't weaken even after all the time she was presumed dead. Caps shield and his own strength were enough to survive a blow from Thor, and he would have stood no chance against that "flood". She also deflected Scott's blast, it was the power deflected from his blast that actually destroyed the damn, adding that to the fact the neither Hulk or Thor weigh more than a Jet, there is nothing to suggest she can't fling them about as she pleases. She shut down Nightcrawler's power (which suggests she can manipulate brain functions, she's a doctor so one can safely assume she has enough intelligence to use her powers to manipulate other brain functions) and possessed Xavier at the same time she was shielding, powering and lifting the jet, with no evidence either of them (Hulk or Thor) being able to fight off her possessing or shutting them down.

It'd he more than a few hundred tons. A few million tons would be more like it.

That's what I meant, thanks

@rickbarry: hulk and thors powes she can't manipulate unlike mutants it's not apart of their genes or DNA Bruce is just superhuman and thor is a god and thor destroyed the destroyer a weapon of Odin that is said to be indestructible and destroyed the BI-Frost bridge something which is more powerful then Scott's blast and water from the damn also jean had to tap into the Phoneix force to survive and hold the water back and help the x jet take off and turn off people's powers and this is just normal jean grey not Phoneix jean grey cause if you remember in xmen 3 she turned off Scott's powers when she took off his glasses

@thanosii: while stoiping nightcrawler from transporting to her and turming on equipment and still managing to have a mind link with the proffesor

@shatiquego582: when she did not struggle she levitated a jet, stopped a flood, stop nightcrawler from teleporting to her, turned on their technology, stopped the bridge from going down, while still managing to have a psychic link with the proffesor, she showed no sign of struggle she let the water hit her and earlier in the movie she destroyed a rocket internally

@njones5: yea but your forgetting she tapped into the Phoneix force so that feat is impressive but invalid due to the fact jean isn't allowed to use the Phoneix force

@shatiquego582: Sorry for the late response but LOAH explained perfectly debunking your statement. Also Jean had no sort of access to the Phoenix Force in the movie, it was her own powers. If your removing this so called Phoenix Force then your removing her powers as a whole. The Phoenix in the film was the subconscious side of Jean, similar to Ultimate X-Men take on it minus the part where the Hellfire agent lied. But to make it simple there is no Phoenix Force but Jean alone. So her feats in all the films are Jean and no Phoenix saying that means she could very well atomize the whole Avenger team, if not most of them.

LOL ME TOO =))

@martinceld@rickbarry Jean Grey has not enough feats that put her on par with Thor or Hulk. Even with the Phoenix force she hasn't proven that she can handle opponents as fast or as strong as Thor and Hulk, and please don't bring in Wolverine cause that was complete PIS.

@esquire:

Jean solos, none of the Avengers have any TP resistance.

I know this is a late response, but hat's because there was no telepathic attacks used against any of the Avengers. Mind controlling the Hulk shouldn't be easy regardless of how there's no say on his resistance to them in the films.

Anyway, here's how I see this going down:

Steve and Logan have at it, ultimately resulting in Steve winning after KO'ing Wolverine.

Iron-Man taking it to the skies should keep him safe from Cyclops' Optic blast, Iron-Man has better accuracy and could simply send a rocket towards Cyclops, beating him. If the rocket doesn't work than his deadly red lasers (Don't know the name of them), should kill Cyclops.

Storm has no durability feats, Mjolnir should absorb or block her lightning attacks toward Thor, one good smack from Mjolnir ends Storm. Thor takes that one, easily.

Hawkeye and Black Widow fight off Kitty Pryde, Kitty has no feats of dodging a speed arrow or bullet. Hawkeye could shoot an explosive arrow towards her to at least knock her off her feet, and Natasha puts a bullet in her head while she's down.

Colossus is a toughie, he takes out Widow & Hawkeye easily. I don't see Cap pulling a win either, but I don't see Colossus getting any further than Steve. Iron-Man, Thor or the Hulk can take him out handily.

Hulk could solo all of the X-Men except for Jean, maybe.

But leaving Hulk out for those battles leaves Jean VS Iron-Man, Hulk and Thor.

She had no display of using telepathic attacks on multiple opponents. These three are too much for her to cope with, she should have enough trouble with the Hulk as it is, all three take her out.

Avengers win, at least 8/10 times the way I see it.

@excella: jean did accesses the Phoneix force in the dam feat when they do I close up on her eyes you see a faint red glow and the phonies energy sounded her body so she needed the Phoneix force and barley bested cyclops http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E792SjtFXc0 see jeez jean isn't as good as people seem and professor x was in knocked out so it's not like she took over his mind when she was awake

Hulk actually does. It's listed as one of his powers.

You should have switched Iron man, and Hawkeye. Cyclops vs Hawkeye, and colossus vs. Iron man sounds better.

Also, I don't necessarily agree with Jean beating Hulk. Remember, she isn't Phoenix. Also, Hulk is resistant to Mind Control.

IMO, no Phoenix....no win for the muties

Hulk or Thor could probably solo.

If Jean taps into Phoenix persona then she could potentially solo

Where are the Movie Version's powers listed?

@shatiquego582:

why do you include Thor and exclude Prof X? Is Jean already crazy and bloodlusted? Methinks you stacked the power to the Avengers. I mean, 'Kiddy Pryde'?

Iron Man is basically a walking military tank and flying war jet. Hulk arguably could solo. And then you have Thor.

Give the Xmen some true heavy hitters at least.

Xmen team should be:

1. Prof X

2. Cyclops

3. Jean Grey

4. Magneto

5. Wolverine

6. Storm

7. Iceman

8. Rogue

9. Nightcrawler

Phoenix is not an entity, at least not in the X-Men movie franchise. It's a part of Jean's personality.

@shatiquego582: That effect was part of her mutation. Go watch the movies over for a better clarification. You are mistaking this for her comic counter-part. X-Men 3 went into depth of this, as it was a subconscious personality, the part of her that wanted to lavish in her powers. You forget that she was having trouble with her increased of power, X-Men 2 stated it so, after Liberty Island or the Cerebro incident. Jean's mental block that Prof. X placed in her mind broke, thus came all that power she was holding back. As well as the Phoenix personality of Jean. Its safe to say those flames shown in X-Men 2 were an extension of her mutation. Saying this, means she could atomize most of the opposing side and her feats are consistent.

@nick31898: yeah that's true. I just assumed Jean had the Phoenix

@excella: it's normal jean and even if she did go in that mode what's stopping thor from throwing mjiolner In her face and taking off her head once he realizes what she is capable of

@blackdog2009: idk just named people off the top off my head

wi

The wall of force she can create that can stop millions of tons of water powerful enough to wipe out a forest. A blow from an angry Thor hardly hurt Captain America through his shield let alone took his head off. The only way he can find out what she is capable of is her actually ripping him to shreds on at least the atomic level, or brain raping him, so it's safe to say his finding out what she is capable of will be too late and something he can ponder in Hel or Vahalla.

@eternaldecider: everyone of you guys seem to be missing the big two white elephants in the room

1- Pheonix is Jean it's all her power which prof x suppressed, look at the feat at the beginning of X3, not letting her access it is like taking away the gamma from hulk or Thor's hammer

2- Noone in Avengers is resistance to TP in fact, Thor has fallen numerous times for Lokis mind tricks and they all were made to fight each other by a Loki who wasn't even in the room.

This is a morals on battle no one is even going to think of Jean as the biggest threat, yet for Jean the most in moral way to end this safely is to mindrape them.

People are exaggerating Thor and Hulks strength from the movie

1- Thor struggled to break free from a glass chamber

2- Thor was able to one handedly block a hulk blow,

3- Jeans was able to block a full optic blast and hold back millions of tons in water

She simply outclasses them in every way

@lordofallhumans: mjiolner weighs as much as a dieing star that outclasses millions of tons of water that jean STRUGGLED with I hate it when people say it as if she did it with out breaking a sweat and if you say no she didn't think about the fact if she was able to hold it back so easily she would have been able to hold back and help the x jet take off and get in it no problem so no that's why she said its the only way so no jean isn't that powerful

@thanosii:

1: the container was ment to hold an enraged hulk and was tumbling threw the air and anyone was able to fall for that

2: hulk is a 100 toner and could solo the xmen with little to no trouble

3:jean didn't block she deflected and that took up most of her strength and something's she struggled with

@thanosii:

3- Jeans was able to block a full optic blast and hold back millions of tons in water

She held back some water. Now how is she doing this with Mjnoir? She can't.

/thread.

No it doesn't, there is an enchantment it on it that makes it seem to weigh that much to prevent non-worthy people from picking it up. If it really weighed that much it would never be able to be on Earth EVER!! Jean did not struggle to hold that water back and was performing multiple psi feats at the time she was doing it. She did help the jet take off, she reactivated it's power and lifted it. The plot is why she "died", as a telekinetic it was not necessary to leave the jet to do what she did. She can solo the Avengers easy!