Too lazy to post pictures :S
King Bumi vs the bender who blows up stuff with his mind.
Combustion Man in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKJmnOpM4Q&feature=endscreen&NR=1
Couldn't find a solid video of King Bumi in action, but any Avatar fans should know how good he is.
50 Feet apart. Win by KO or death.
Location is the ring that King Bumi fought Aang in.
No morals.
Who wins?
(sorry if its been done)
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
Any actual argument to support this opinion?
Well Bumi is 1, In his own kingdom surronded by his element. 2. The most powrful Earthbender in the series aside from the Avatars. 3. Could just about mov underground and knock Combustion man out. 4. Has over a 100 years of expierence. 5. Sinc this is taking place in the arena he would have acess to geminite which from its showings is very durable and cannot be broken easily. Now combustion man is strong mind you but a simple hit from Sokka's Boomerang disrupted his powers. Bumi is also a (in his words) mad genius. I could probably keep going but I'l stop now
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
Any actual argument to support this opinion?
Well Bumi is 1, In his own kingdom surronded by his element. 2. The most powrful Earthbender in the series aside from the Avatars. 3. Could just about mov underground and knock Combustion man out. 4. Has over a 100 years of expierence. 5. Sinc this is taking place in the arena he would have acess to geminite which from its showings is very durable and cannot be broken easily. Now combustion man is strong mind you but a simple hit from Sokka's Boomerang disrupted his powers. Bumi is also a (in his words) mad genius. I could probably keep going but I'l stop now
1. Is a valid point. However, most of the show takes place around earth. Earthbenders generally always have their combatants surrounded to a degree by their element. I wouldn't say this is conclusive evidence for why Bumi should beat Combustion Man.
2. Not a valid point. Despite being an argument from status, Toph herself is a profecient earthbender. And Aang is on Bumi's level, according to their battle. However, Combustion man was able to take on the second most powerful earthbender, the most powerful airbender(since hes the only airbender), one of the strongest water benders, and Sokka by himself. Considering that achievement, the fact that hes facing the strongest Earthbender doesn't actually mean he's going to lose.
3. Combustion Man showed considerably fast reflexes, especially when he dodged Aang's ambush when Aang was hiding in rock a feet away from him. Aside from that, Earthbenders tend to make armour or face their opponents head on. Not hide in rock and fight from below. Furthermore, there's as good a chance of Combustion Man dodging his attack as him getting knocked out by it. Saying that Bumi could just knock combustion man out, as a reason why he would win, is begging the question/circular reason. It's like me saying that Combustion Man could win by just killing Bumi; the question is how/if he's going to be able to accoomplish that.
4. How much experience does he have fighting someone who blows up stuff with their mind? Experience is useful at times, but if you've never encountered the situation, experience isn't necessarily a turning point in the battle.
5. Though I dont remember the material, I kinda doubt germinite can withstand explosions. And it'd be kinda hard to argue that from any durability feat that is not an explosion.
A simple hit from Sokkas boomerang disrupted his powers after he'd tanked being hailed on with ice shards by Katara. To no visible affect/damage. Also, of all the attempts to tag him by the Avatar gang, how many succeeded in hitting him? I'd say somewhere under 5% of all the strikes they threw at him throughout the episode.
Nice argument made for Combustion Man. I was initially thinking Bumi should win in a good fight. Now I am not so sure.
I wasn't really arguing for Combustion Man...just against the argument made for Bumi. I have no clue who I think would win.
But after rewatching their fight http://www.putlocker.com/file/0FEF5573BE6B7995#
Bumi never actually dodges any of Aang's attacks. He just meets them head on and blocks them. Which is the essence of the Earthbending style.
Nonetheless, that wouldn't work with Combustion Man since his explosion powers can overcome any earthbending shield or attack. I guess I'd give the edge to Combustion Man since he can essentially overcome Bumi/the earthbending style of fighting.
What episodes feature Bumi's earthbending prominently? Because I can remember his fight with Aang, his escape from the firebenders at Omashu, and the siege of Ba Sing Se with the rest of the White Lotus and in those episodes I wasn't especially impressed by Bumi's power. Sure he was one of the stronger earthbenders out there but he wasn't very creative and he was fighting nobodies from the fire nation and a very early version of Aang. To me Toph has always been out of Bumi's league.
As for the fight Combustion Man should get a kill shot every time but as we've seen he's very stupid and also very slow between attacks. Bumi can defend himself well enough with earthbending and has home court advatange. Bumi should win.
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
Any actual argument to support this opinion?
Well Bumi is 1, In his own kingdom surronded by his element. 2. The most powrful Earthbender in the series aside from the Avatars. 3. Could just about mov underground and knock Combustion man out. 4. Has over a 100 years of expierence. 5. Sinc this is taking place in the arena he would have acess to geminite which from its showings is very durable and cannot be broken easily. Now combustion man is strong mind you but a simple hit from Sokka's Boomerang disrupted his powers. Bumi is also a (in his words) mad genius. I could probably keep going but I'l stop now
1. Is a valid point. However, most of the show takes place around earth. Earthbenders generally always have their combatants surrounded to a degree by their element. I wouldn't say this is conclusive evidence for why Bumi should beat Combustion Man.
2. Not a valid point. Despite being an argument from status, Toph herself is a profecient earthbender. And Aang is on Bumi's level, according to their battle. However, Combustion man was able to take on the second most powerful earthbender, the most powerful airbender(since hes the only airbender), one of the strongest water benders, and Sokka by himself. Considering that achievement, the fact that hes facing the strongest Earthbender doesn't actually mean he's going to lose.
3. Combustion Man showed considerably fast reflexes, especially when he dodged Aang's ambush when Aang was hiding in rock a feet away from him. Aside from that, Earthbenders tend to make armour or face their opponents head on. Not hide in rock and fight from below. Furthermore, there's as good a chance of Combustion Man dodging his attack as him getting knocked out by it. Saying that Bumi could just knock combustion man out, as a reason why he would win, is begging the question/circular reason. It's like me saying that Combustion Man could win by just killing Bumi; the question is how/if he's going to be able to accoomplish that.
4. How much experience does he have fighting someone who blows up stuff with their mind? Experience is useful at times, but if you've never encountered the situation, experience isn't necessarily a turning point in the battle.
5. Though I dont remember the material, I kinda doubt germinite can withstand explosions. And it'd be kinda hard to argue that from any durability feat that is not an explosion.
A simple hit from Sokkas boomerang disrupted his powers after he'd tanked being hailed on with ice shards by Katara. To no visible affect/damage. Also, of all the attempts to tag him by the Avatar gang, how many succeeded in hitting him? I'd say somewhere under 5% of all the strikes they threw at him throughout the episode.
1. Just as Combustion Man blows stuff up with his mind I also doubt that he himself has ever encountered someone on Bumi's level who can bend with his face and yes most Earth Bender's do take an offensive nature just as most Firebender's usually take the agressive nature
2. It actually was stated that Bumi is the strongest Earth Bender in the series and remember that during Aang and Bumi's battle that Bumi just wanted to test Aang and was holding back but I see where you're coming from. Again though Aang was evading his attacks because thats just his evasive nature and Aang nor Toph ever used that pop under the ground technique and thats how I see him winning. Unless Combustion man has enough juice to blow up Omashu
3. I wasnt qustioning his reflexes necessarily but it could go like this Bumi could throw a large Boulder at Combustion man and Combustion man could blow it up right and while he's doing that there are a numbr of ways Bumi could attack him before Combustion man have the chance to attack back with either one of the smaller stones created when Combustion man blew the larger rock or Bumi could pop underground and attack him from behind
4.Well via expierence you learn to adapt during a battle very quick.
5. Well I believe gemine/rock candy is the same crystal Aang used to shiel himself from Azula and Zuko's attacks when they were fighting below Ba Sing Se and they werent able to break it open
6. Im not arguing which of the attacks made the damage or what not I'm just pointing out that a hit from Sokka's Boomerang to the back of the head disrupetd his powers causing them to implode on hisself
@TheWitchingHour said:
As for the fight Combustion Man should get a kill shot every time but as we've seen he's very stupid and also very slow between attacks. Bumi can defend himself well enough with earthbending and has home court advatange. Bumi should win.
Rock.Paper.Scissors. Shoot.
Bumi: Rock.Paper.Scissors. Rock!
Combustion Man: Rock.Paper.Scissors. Explosion!
Consider if you played a game of rock paper scissors with a friend, who would win between the Rock and the Explosion?
This analogy works so well for this battle because rock paper scissors is a game where each combatant meets the other head on. As an Earthbender, Bumi fights by simply overcoming his opponent head on. No evading, just blocking and attacking. That's exactly what he did when he fought Aang.
Combustion Man did the same thing. He rarely made any effort to dodge anything, and simply blew up anything thrown at him.
According to both their styles of combatant, these two are going to come at each other like a game of rock paper scissors, and Combustion Man's explosion beats rock. Like, a rock shield is not going to do much to for Bumi. Bumi's attacks can be overcome head to head. Combustion man most likely takes this fight due to sheer power.
@Jezer: I don't know about that. Combustion Man takes a lot of time between shots. Bumi could use that to his advantage and nail him in the forehead like Sokka did with the Boomerang.
@TheWitchingHour: They dont really show Bumi's Earth beding prowess like that nor the rest of the white lotus besides Iroh but during the Avatar extra's segment the creators officialy stated that he was the Strongest Earth bender. Most liekly due to raw poweer and expierence
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
Any actual argument to support this opinion?
Well Bumi is 1, In his own kingdom surronded by his element. 2. The most powrful Earthbender in the series aside from the Avatars. 3. Could just about mov underground and knock Combustion man out. 4. Has over a 100 years of expierence. 5. Sinc this is taking place in the arena he would have acess to geminite which from its showings is very durable and cannot be broken easily. Now combustion man is strong mind you but a simple hit from Sokka's Boomerang disrupted his powers. Bumi is also a (in his words) mad genius. I could probably keep going but I'l stop now
1. Is a valid point. However, most of the show takes place around earth. Earthbenders generally always have their combatants surrounded to a degree by their element. I wouldn't say this is conclusive evidence for why Bumi should beat Combustion Man.
2. Not a valid point. Despite being an argument from status, Toph herself is a profecient earthbender. And Aang is on Bumi's level, according to their battle. However, Combustion man was able to take on the second most powerful earthbender, the most powerful airbender(since hes the only airbender), one of the strongest water benders, and Sokka by himself. Considering that achievement, the fact that hes facing the strongest Earthbender doesn't actually mean he's going to lose.
3. Combustion Man showed considerably fast reflexes, especially when he dodged Aang's ambush when Aang was hiding in rock a feet away from him. Aside from that, Earthbenders tend to make armour or face their opponents head on. Not hide in rock and fight from below. Furthermore, there's as good a chance of Combustion Man dodging his attack as him getting knocked out by it. Saying that Bumi could just knock combustion man out, as a reason why he would win, is begging the question/circular reason. It's like me saying that Combustion Man could win by just killing Bumi; the question is how/if he's going to be able to accoomplish that.
4. How much experience does he have fighting someone who blows up stuff with their mind? Experience is useful at times, but if you've never encountered the situation, experience isn't necessarily a turning point in the battle.
5. Though I dont remember the material, I kinda doubt germinite can withstand explosions. And it'd be kinda hard to argue that from any durability feat that is not an explosion.
A simple hit from Sokkas boomerang disrupted his powers after he'd tanked being hailed on with ice shards by Katara. To no visible affect/damage. Also, of all the attempts to tag him by the Avatar gang, how many succeeded in hitting him? I'd say somewhere under 5% of all the strikes they threw at him throughout the episode.
1. Just as Combustion Man blows stuff up with his mind I also doubt that he himself has ever encountered someone on Bumi's level who can bend with his face and yes most Earth Bender's do take an offensive nature just as most Firebender's usually take the agressive nature
2. It actually was stated that Bumi is the strongest Earth Bender in the series and remember that during Aang and Bumi's battle that Bumi just wanted to test Aang and was holding back but I see where you're coming from. Again though Aang was evading his attacks because thats just his evasive nature and Aang nor Toph ever used that pop under the ground technique and thats how I see him winning. Unless Combustion man has enough juice to blow up Omashu
3. I wasnt qustioning his reflexes necessarily but it could go like this Bumi could throw a large Boulder at Combustion man and Combustion man could blow it up right and while he's doing that there are a numbr of ways Bumi could attack him before Combustion man have the chance to attack back with either one of the smaller stones created when Combustion man blew the larger rock or Bumi could pop underground and attack him from behind
4.Well via expierence you learn to adapt during a battle very quick.
5. Well I believe gemine/rock candy is the same crystal Aang used to shiel himself from Azula and Zuko's attacks when they were fighting below Ba Sing Se and they werent able to break it open
6. Im not arguing which of the attacks made the damage or what not I'm just pointing out that a hit from Sokka's Boomerang to the back of the head disrupetd his powers causing them to implode on hisself
1. Let me put it this way: Combustion Man may have never encountered someone on the Earthbending level of someone who can bend with their face. But, he's definitely encountered Earthbenders. I mean, he's encountered Toph who is basically the second best Earthbender of the whole series.
So, he has experience fighting someone who Earthbends. Just not necessarily to the degree of skill/strength that Bumi does.
On the other hand, Bumi has not shown - and most likely simply never hasn't - to encounter someone who explodes things with his mind. Combustion Man has the edge here because he at the very least has fought Earthbenders. (And he fought the second most powerful one!) He has some semblance of experience. Bumi has none. And, I'm confused why this train of thought is located in point 1 despite it not having to do with the previous point 1s. I'll just assume this is a new point.(though, that means it'd be less confusing if you made this point 7 or simply a new point)
2. Was it actually stated factually? By who? I know Bumi claimed himself as the strongest earthbender, but he's not a credible, unbiased source. Nor does that make it canon fact. Though, I would agree that he's the strongest, but not by it being outright stated. But onto your next point, so you see him winning by using an attack method that is contrary to the overall Earthbending philosophy, that he's never actually used in the show? I mean, yes he could win by doing that. I simply don't actually see him winning via that method because that's not his bending style, and Combustion Man himself has displayed fast reflexes against a sneak attack from hiding beneath rock.
3. The explosion of the stone would create a dust cloud that would obscure both of their visions, so its not viable for Bumi to hit him with bending when he wouldn't be able to see him(that method could work with Toph though) Bumi could pop up behind him, but again, from his fight with Aang he doesn't seem that creative or sneaky.
4. I guess. But I wouldn't say the "hundred years" of experience that you initially brought up is necessary to learn that you need to adapt in a fight. I'd say that could depend on your personality, intelligence, or fighting philosophy(adapting being prominent in airbending, not Earthbending). Furthermore, if you don't have experience, adapting takes trial and error.
5. It probably was. But again, you'd have to somehow argue that the force of their attacks equated to an explosion. Which is an impossible argument to make correctly without injecting real science and doing real life calculations.
6. Okay. But, why make the point without using it for any argument? Though, I don't think that the point is relevant since if Bumi tagged him in the back of the head and knocked him down like Sokka's boomerang did, he'd be at Bumi's mercy - and losing control of his explosion powers would be the least of his problems.
@TheWitchingHour said:
@Jezer: I don't know about that. Combustion Man takes a lot of time between shots. Bumi could use that to his advantage and nail him in the forehead like Sokka did with the Boomerang.
If it was that easy, Aang or Toph would have done the same. Combustion Man's offensive shots had time between them, because he was pretty lazy in his offensive attacks. Defensively, he never took a long time to respond to an attack coming his way.
Furthermore, Bumi would have to have prior knowledge to know to specifically aim for his forehead. And, Sokka's use of the boomerang wasn't head on like the typical Earthbending style. You could argue this if Sokka beat Combustion Man by throwing his boomerang straight at him between one of his shots, but that wasn't the case. (He was hiding behind a rock, and his boomerang came from a weird angle)
@Jezer: Didn't Sokka see that the source of Combustion Man's powers came from the tattoo on his forehead? And then didn't he purposefully throw the boomerang to try and cut off his source?
And if that doesn't work couldn't Bumi drag Combustion Man underground and suffocate him? That would nullify his powers (Combustion man inhales and exhales sharply to use his blasts) and give him the K.O. or death needed for victory.
@TheWitchingHour said:
@Jezer: Didn't Sokka see that the source of Combustion Man's powers came from the tattoo on his forehead? And then didn't he purposefully throw the boomerang to try and cut off his source?
And if that doesn't work couldn't Bumi drag Combustion Man underground and suffocate him? That would nullify his powers (Combustion man inhales and exhales sharply to use his blasts) and give him the K.O. or death needed for victory.
No. Sokka actually just randomly threw his boomerang and hoped it would hit Combustion Man. And it ended up happening, knocking him to the ground. At that point he smiled and puffed his body up like he was about to celebrate, but then Combustion Man got up and Sokka said "Ahh...:(" And turned around to go hide.
Bumi could drag Combustion Man underground and suffocate him. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen any Earthbenders do that on the show, but maybe he could. But you don't judge a battle by what could happen. As easily, Combustion Man could blow Bumi up on his first shot. There are many different paths to victory be each combatant, but you argue what would happen based on personality, fighting style, fighting tendencies, ect.
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
@Jezer said:
@redbird3rdboywonder said:
Bumi's gonna F*** Combustion Man up big time
Any actual argument to support this opinion?
Well Bumi is 1, In his own kingdom surronded by his element. 2. The most powrful Earthbender in the series aside from the Avatars. 3. Could just about mov underground and knock Combustion man out. 4. Has over a 100 years of expierence. 5. Sinc this is taking place in the arena he would have acess to geminite which from its showings is very durable and cannot be broken easily. Now combustion man is strong mind you but a simple hit from Sokka's Boomerang disrupted his powers. Bumi is also a (in his words) mad genius. I could probably keep going but I'l stop now
1. Is a valid point. However, most of the show takes place around earth. Earthbenders generally always have their combatants surrounded to a degree by their element. I wouldn't say this is conclusive evidence for why Bumi should beat Combustion Man.
2. Not a valid point. Despite being an argument from status, Toph herself is a profecient earthbender. And Aang is on Bumi's level, according to their battle. However, Combustion man was able to take on the second most powerful earthbender, the most powerful airbender(since hes the only airbender), one of the strongest water benders, and Sokka by himself. Considering that achievement, the fact that hes facing the strongest Earthbender doesn't actually mean he's going to lose.
3. Combustion Man showed considerably fast reflexes, especially when he dodged Aang's ambush when Aang was hiding in rock a feet away from him. Aside from that, Earthbenders tend to make armour or face their opponents head on. Not hide in rock and fight from below. Furthermore, there's as good a chance of Combustion Man dodging his attack as him getting knocked out by it. Saying that Bumi could just knock combustion man out, as a reason why he would win, is begging the question/circular reason. It's like me saying that Combustion Man could win by just killing Bumi; the question is how/if he's going to be able to accoomplish that.
4. How much experience does he have fighting someone who blows up stuff with their mind? Experience is useful at times, but if you've never encountered the situation, experience isn't necessarily a turning point in the battle.
5. Though I dont remember the material, I kinda doubt germinite can withstand explosions. And it'd be kinda hard to argue that from any durability feat that is not an explosion.
A simple hit from Sokkas boomerang disrupted his powers after he'd tanked being hailed on with ice shards by Katara. To no visible affect/damage. Also, of all the attempts to tag him by the Avatar gang, how many succeeded in hitting him? I'd say somewhere under 5% of all the strikes they threw at him throughout the episode.
1. Just as Combustion Man blows stuff up with his mind I also doubt that he himself has ever encountered someone on Bumi's level who can bend with his face and yes most Earth Bender's do take an offensive nature just as most Firebender's usually take the agressive nature
2. It actually was stated that Bumi is the strongest Earth Bender in the series and remember that during Aang and Bumi's battle that Bumi just wanted to test Aang and was holding back but I see where you're coming from. Again though Aang was evading his attacks because thats just his evasive nature and Aang nor Toph ever used that pop under the ground technique and thats how I see him winning. Unless Combustion man has enough juice to blow up Omashu
3. I wasnt qustioning his reflexes necessarily but it could go like this Bumi could throw a large Boulder at Combustion man and Combustion man could blow it up right and while he's doing that there are a numbr of ways Bumi could attack him before Combustion man have the chance to attack back with either one of the smaller stones created when Combustion man blew the larger rock or Bumi could pop underground and attack him from behind
4.Well via expierence you learn to adapt during a battle very quick.
5. Well I believe gemine/rock candy is the same crystal Aang used to shiel himself from Azula and Zuko's attacks when they were fighting below Ba Sing Se and they werent able to break it open
6. Im not arguing which of the attacks made the damage or what not I'm just pointing out that a hit from Sokka's Boomerang to the back of the head disrupetd his powers causing them to implode on hisself
1. Let me put it this way: Combustion Man may have never encountered someone on the Earthbending level of someone who can bend with their face. But, he's definitely encountered Earthbenders. I mean, he's encountered Toph who is basically the second best Earthbender of the whole series.
So, he has experience fighting someone who Earthbends. Just not necessarily to the degree of skill/strength that Bumi does.
On the other hand, Bumi has not shown - and most likely simply never hasn't - to encounter someone who explodes things with his mind. Combustion Man has the edge here because he at the very least has fought Earthbenders. (And he fought the second most powerful one!) He has some semblance of experience. Bumi has none. And, I'm confused why this train of thought is located in point 1 despite it not having to do with the previous point 1s. I'll just assume this is a new point.(though, that means it'd be less confusing if you made this point 7 or simply a new point)
2. Was it actually stated factually? By who? I know Bumi claimed himself as the strongest earthbender, but he's not a credible, unbiased source. Nor does that make it canon fact. Though, I would agree that he's the strongest, but not by it being outright stated. But onto your next point, so you see him winning by using an attack method that is contrary to the overall Earthbending philosophy, that he's never actually used in the show? I mean, yes he could win by doing that. I simply don't actually see him winning via that method because that's not his bending style, and Combustion Man himself has displayed fast reflexes against a sneak attack from hiding beneath rock.
3. The explosion of the stone would create a dust cloud that would obscure both of their visions, so its not viable for Bumi to hit him with bending when he wouldn't be able to see him(that method could work with Toph though) Bumi could pop up behind him, but again, from his fight with Aang he doesn't seem that creative or sneaky.
4. I guess. But I wouldn't say the "hundred years" of experience that you initially brought up is necessary to learn that you need to adapt in a fight. I'd say that could depend on your personality, intelligence, or fighting philosophy(adapting being prominent in airbending, not Earthbending). Furthermore, if you don't have experience, adapting takes trial and error.
5. It probably was. But again, you'd have to somehow argue that the force of their attacks equated to an explosion. Which is an impossible argument to make correctly without injecting real science and doing real life calculations.
6. Okay. But, why make the point without using it for any argument? Though, I don't think that the point is relevant since if Bumi tagged him in the back of the head and knocked him down like Sokka's boomerang did, he'd be at Bumi's mercy - and losing control of his explosion powers would be the least of his problems.
1. True very True. (My train of of thought got interrupted by my annoying cousin who wont shut up)
2.) The creators stated it during Avatar Extras. Overall in raw power and physical skill Bumi is the strongest Earthbender and well Bumi does believe in the 85 jin and he's crazy
3. Against Aang he wasnt trying and he's creative. Remember he's a "mad genius" So he's kinda like the Joker
4.True
5.}True
6.) True and I meant to argue it but again my stupid cousin wont shut up so I can think
@Jezer: Bumi could drag Combustion Man underground and suffocate him. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen any Earthbenders do that on the show,
it did happen on the show. Remember one of the earth kings was trying to force Aang to enter the avatar state and he made Aang think he swallowed Katara into the ground? So yes, Bumi wins this rather quickly. Well he could but Bumi would find a more creative way to do it.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: Bumi could drag Combustion Man underground and suffocate him. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen any Earthbenders do that on the show,
it did happen on the show. Remember one of the earth kings was trying to force Aang to enter the avatar state and he made Aang think he swallowed Katara into the ground? So yes, Bumi wins this rather quickly. Well he could but Bumi would find a more creative way to do it.
I think you forgot to read the rest of my post that you quoted
Bumi could drag Combustion Man underground and suffocate him. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen any Earthbenders do that on the show, but maybe he could. But you don't judge a battle by what could happen. As easily, Combustion Man could blow Bumi up on his first shot. There are many different paths to victory be each combatant, but you argue what would happen based on personality, fighting style, fighting tendencies, ect.
@Jezer: Combustion man couln't even hit the kids on his first shot. Everyone on the show has shown insane dodging feats. Other than hitting Bumi directly i don't see many ways for CM to beat him. CM has 1 attack, that comes at you in one direction. Bumi can attack him from behind, side ways, and most deadly from the bottom. Bumi can also block which is huge advantage. Unless the opponent can fly, earth benders have an advantage.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: Combustion man couln't even hit the kids on his first shot. Everyone on the show has shown insane dodging feats. Other than hitting Bumi directly i don't see many ways for CM to beat him. CM has 1 attack, that comes at you in one direction. Bumi can attack him from behind, side ways, and most deadly from the bottom. Bumi can also block which is huge advantage. Unless the opponent can fly, earth benders have an advantage.
Everyone has insane dodging feats...except Bumi. Rewatch his fight with Aang, he didn't dodge any attack, and simply blocked all of them. Which, as I've said previously, is the essence of the earthbending style.
Bumi's blocking is not a huge advantage(or really, an advantage at all) because no rock shield will stand up to Combustion Man's explosion. If the battle starts with Combustion Man attacking and Bumi putting up a shield, it's going to end simply by the blast destroying Bumi's shield and knocking him down.
Bumi can attack from underground, but like I said in my previous post, it's not his tendency to attack in sneaky, creative ways based on his battle with Aang. Earthbenders meet their opponents head on, they don't hide and strike. Suppose Bumi attacks from any direction that's not from straight ahead, he leaves himself open to Combustion Man's blast since he doesn't have anything impeding it unless he's specifically hiding(which is not his battle style).
Last, Combustion Man has at least one good reflex feat against Aang attacking him from within a rock he was hiding in, from a foot away.
@Jezer: If you look at the fight starting at about 3:20 you see CM destroying those old pillars. Not once does a blast take out two pillars or destroy one pillar than destroy whats behind it. Those pillars are old and pretty skinny. Bumi can make defenses far bigger than that. He can lift up the ground under CM feat as he did in his battle with Aang. He can also cause the ground to shift at great speeds under his feet or under CM as he did when locked in the box on the mail delivery system. CM can blast. period. Bumi can blast with rocks. Engulf him in the ground. Send him flying in the air. Attack from every direction at once. Bumi can travel under ground and appear where ever he pleases as he did in the very beginning of his fight with Aang. and what do you mean " it's not his tendency to attack in sneaky, creative ways". that is what Bumi is known for. being unusual and thinking outside the box. That's why Aang called him a "mad genius". And when Bumi was ready to fight,as seen in the final battle, he as not playing around. Bumi has the power, defense and versatility to beat CM. CM is a one trick pony.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: If you look at the fight starting at about 3:20 you see CM destroying those old pillars. Not once does a blast take out two pillars or destroy one pillar than destroy whats behind it. Those pillars are old and pretty skinny. Bumi can make defenses far bigger than that. He can lift up the ground under CM feat as he did in his battle with Aang. He can also cause the ground to shift at great speeds under his feet or under CM as he did when locked in the box on the mail delivery system. CM can blast. period. Bumi can blast with rocks. Engulf him in the ground. Send him flying in the air. Attack from every direction at once. Bumi can travel under ground and appear where ever he pleases as he did in the very beginning of his fight with Aang. and what do you mean " it's not his tendency to attack in sneaky, creative ways". that is what Bumi is known for. being unusual and thinking outside the box. That's why Aang called him a "mad genius". And when Bumi was ready to fight,as seen in the final battle, he as not playing around. Bumi has the power, defense and versatility to beat CM. CM is a one trick pony.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKJmnOpM4Q&feature=player_embedded
(Same vid)
:44 has him obliterating a giant hail of stones thrown by Toph quite easily. Bigger than the stone pillars you pointed out and bigger or as big as the wall of stone that Bumi used to travel in his fight with Aang.
3:27 has him obliterating giant 2 giant stone pillars that Aang tried to hide behind. The camera doesn't linger on any of the pillars for you to see the extent of the damage to the ground. And yes, the size of Combustion Man's blasts are only a big enough radius to destroy one pillar.
Then next portion of your post is you exaggerating Bumi's skills to levels he hasn't shown. Bumi has never shot stones from every direction at once. Toph never has as well. You're acting like it's impossible for Combustion Man to dodge these attacks, despite the fact he's dodged a sneak, point blank attack from Aang. Bumi's hitting someone with rocks is not the same as Combustion Man hitting someone with an explosion.
I mean it's not his tendency to attack in sneaky ways via his fight with Aang where he fought pretty open and straightforward for most of the fight. His final attack in the fight was literally picking up a giant stone and throwing it at Aang, you can't get any more uncreative, straightforward than that.
Like I said earlier, if Bumi used any of these semi-exaggerated methods in his fight with Aang, then you can say he has a tendency to do such in his fights. He didn't. Post footage from his appearance in the Final Battle(as I've forgotten what exactly he did in it) if it showcases this creative use of his power that he never displayed against Aang. If it doesn't, he's shown no tendency to use his powers in these ways in actual battles.
@Jezer: if Bumi used any of these semi-exaggerated methods in his fight with Aang, then you can say he has a tendency to do such in his fights. He didn't. he's shown no tendency to use his powers in these ways in actual battles.
Your statements are so wrong. Did you watch Avatar? Youtube Aang vs Bumi and you will see that your entire statement is untrue.
1) in his fight with aang Bumi hurled 2 large boulders at aang. one coming frm the front. one from the back. Aang had to go underground to dodge them. Something CM can't do. Nor can he attack in 2 directions at once.
2) Bumi appeared out of nowhere traveling underground and appeared in front of Katara/Sokka who were stuck in rock candy. CM has no defense against that.
3) Bumi caused a rock formation to chase aang. The formation changed directions at Bumi's control.
4) Bumi split the ground in his fight with Aang. This could easily swallow CM. Even if CM jumped Bumi could split the ground where he lands. Cm has no defense agains that.
5) When Bumi fought Aang he used the ground to launch Aang in the air. CM has no defense against that.
6) Bumi can cause a rock formation to appear directly in front of CM as he is firing which would create a backlash of energy.
7) When Bumi was trapped in the box he was able to use the ground to transport him at great speed up and down the chutes. He can use that to move himself or throw CM off balance or into a wall.
Now if you youtube Bumi fight you will see that these are moves he did in the cartoon. It proves it is in his character and ability. CM has little to no chance of beating him.
@TheWitchingHour: Bumi was bending entire buildings on the day of the eclipse..... With what seemed to be casual ease.....
As well as bending a 100+ ton superstatue of Ozai,
@pooty said:
@Jezer: if Bumi used any of these semi-exaggerated methods in his fight with Aang, then you can say he has a tendency to do such in his fights. He didn't. he's shown no tendency to use his powers in these ways in actual battles.
Your statements are so wrong. Did you watch Avatar? Youtube Aang vs Bumi and you will see that your entire statement is untrue.
1) in his fight with aang Bumi hurled 2 large boulders at aang. one coming frm the front. one from the back. Aang had to go underground to dodge them. Something CM can't do. Nor can he attack in 2 directions at once.
2) Bumi appeared out of nowhere traveling underground and appeared in front of Katara/Sokka who were stuck in rock candy. CM has no defense against that.
3) Bumi caused a rock formation to chase aang. The formation changed directions at Bumi's control.
4) Bumi split the ground in his fight with Aang. This could easily swallow CM. Even if CM jumped Bumi could split the ground where he lands. Cm has no defense agains that.
5) When Bumi fought Aang he used the ground to launch Aang in the air. CM has no defense against that.
6) Bumi can cause a rock formation to appear directly in front of CM as he is firing which would create a backlash of energy.
7) When Bumi was trapped in the box he was able to use the ground to transport him at great speed up and down the chutes. He can use that to move himself or throw CM off balance or into a wall.
Now if you youtube Bumi fight you will see that these are moves he did in the cartoon. It proves it is in his character and ability. CM has little to no chance of beating him.
Bumi started by
1. Throwing several rocks at Aang.
2. Threw a rock at the ceiling, so that it would shatter and rain down on Aang.
3. Started raising rock pillars out of the ground, in order to hit Aang. (These "rock formations" didn't "change direction" considering they were all coming from one direction out of the ground)
So far, all of these are standard Earthbending attacks.Toph raised rocks out of the ground in the first episode she was shown in.
4. Raised a rock shield out of the ground.
5. Chased Aang with a pile of rocks.
6. Chased Aang with a wall of rocks rising out of the ground.
Standard earthbending stuff.
7. Turned part of the ground to sand.
Most creative thing he did.
8. Raised two stones to hit Aang from two different sides.
This is moving rocks from two directions. The most he did in the fight was rocks from two different directions. And again, straightforward earthbending attack.
9. Raised a rock from behind Aang and tried to throw it at him.
10. Raised a giant rock from in front of Aang and threw it at him.
11. Had a rock raised above Aang, when Aang thought he had him at a defeat.
Ten out of Eleven of what he did was not creative. Moving rocks from two directions doesn't mean he can throw rocks from "all" directions. Bumi is, for the most part, very uncreative with his powers as showcased by his fight with Aang.
Oh, and AFTER the battle, he appeared out of the ground in front of Katara and Sokka. Not only did he not use this in the battle, but most of the battle he did not try to approach Aang and fought from afar. He did not try to hide or sneak attack. He showed no tendency to do this in actual fights, nor is it consistent with his fight style.
Furthermore, Aang had to go underground to dodge those two boulders...because he was already caught in the quicksand/dirt that Bumi had made. Otherwise, he simply could have just dodged out of the way without going underground.
Bumi split the ground in his fight, assuming he tries to do this in the fight, he's going to be too busy dodging an explosion to split the ground where Combustion Man jumps.
Raising a rock in front of Combustion Man wouldn't create a backlash of energy, because his beam of explosion would just dissolve the rock before actually exploding near Bumi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBKJmnOpM4QCheck :46 and pause it on frame :47 and then watch it actually explode near Aang's group on frame :48.
Combustion Man could just dodge the pillar of stone that comes out of the ground instead of being hit by it.
Last, the fight does not show Bumi having any tendency to approach his opponent, and of course, Combustion Man may just dodge the ground.
The answer to alot of your points where you say CM has no defense to so-and-so attack is simply "Combustion Man could dodge, instead of standing completely still like your post implies he would do."
@Jezer: You're still not making a case for your side.
Ten out of Eleven of what he did was not creative
By your words Bumi has 11 attacks. But here is another biggie. The setting is Bumi's palace. Meaning the walls and ceiling are made of rock. Bumi can bring the ceiling down in many large chunks or have the side walls come at him. So that is a total of 12 attacks. So i will wait for you tell me the many and awesome ways for CM to win.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: You're still not making a case for your side.
Ten out of Eleven of what he did was not creative
By your words Bumi has 11 attacks. But here is another biggie. The setting is Bumi's palace. Meaning the walls and ceiling are made of rock. Bumi can bring the ceiling down in many large chunks or have the side walls come at him. So that is a total of 12 attacks. So i will wait for you tell me the many and awesome ways for CM to win.
I think you may have completely missed the point of my post.
Firstly, I said "Eleven of what he did". I outlined for you the attacks he used, most of which were variations of the same attack. So, it's not as if I pointed out that he did 11 different attacks. Especially since I said that 10 of those attacks were not creative.
Secondly, following your logic, Bumi has thousands of attacks for every single angle he can throw a rock... You're selling Bumi short if you're saying he has a total of 12 attacks.
Thirdly, your logic for deciding the battle is fallacious. It doesn't matter how many potential ways Bumi can attack(millions for every angle and variation of basic earthbending attacks); that doesn't make a case for your side. As I keep repeating, what matters is how he is most likely to attack that is consistent with his fighting style as shown in previous fights. What matters is the fact that CM can destroy his rock shields and his rock projectiles. What matters is that Bumi was not shown dodging a single attack in his fight with Aang, but attempted to block all of them, so he doesn't have a tendency to dodge or any agility/dodging feats. What matters is that while doing the hand motions for all the rock attacks you think prove that he win, Combustion Man could land a single hit of his own attack(which is faster on the draw since it doesnt require any motions or movement, ya know, since hes bending with his mind) which would kill Bumi.
What matters is that CM has shown dodging/reaction feats, which is a counter to your implications that anything Bumi does will tag him.
....Please tell me at which point I haven't made a case for my side.^
No morals Bumi drags Sparky Sparky Boom Man underground and suffocates him, he might take some damage, but in the end, he wins.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: When I pick a winner of a battle i imagine what would happen if they fought multiple times. That way you can't blame luck or a fluke. Like a play off series. So if Bumi fought CM 7 times, who wins the most battles?
Do all the battles have to play out different ways from each other?
@Jezer: this quote is taken from the Mandatory Battle Bible thread that all users are expected to read:
"Matches are always assuming the characters face off 10 different times. Not in a row, just what would happen if the encounter took place 10 times. Who wins the majority of that is what's important and why. " end quote
In a boxing match there is not just one round. there are 12. Ultimate fighting has atleast 3 rounds. Playoff series have 7 rounds. This ensures that the best person wins. CM could get lucky and catch Bumi by surprise once. Bumi could get lucky and hit CM in his third eye once. So to take luck and flukes out the picture, you have them fight multiple times and pick a winner. So who wins a best out of 7? Bumi or CM?
No morals Bumi drags Sparky Sparky Boom Man underground and suffocates him, he might take some damage, but in the end, he wins.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: this quote is taken from the Mandatory Battle Bible thread that all users are expected to read:
"Matches are always assuming the characters face off 10 different times. Not in a row, just what would happen if the encounter took place 10 times. Who wins the majority of that is what's important and why. " end quote
In a boxing match there is not just one round. there are 12. Ultimate fighting has atleast 3 rounds. Playoff series have 7 rounds. This ensures that the best person wins. CM could get lucky and catch Bumi by surprise once. Bumi could get lucky and hit CM in his third eye once. So to take luck and flukes out the picture, you have them fight multiple times and pick a winner. So who wins a best out of 7? Bumi or CM?
I think that rule needs clarification, since a battle may not happen differently 10 times. For example, if a precog fights someone - they know what will happen. And it may simply be that they are destined to win. Or destined to lose. (Depending on whether its a precog that can see multiple futures or a precog that sees what's actually going to happen) In which case, the battle wont happen 10 different times.
In fact, it's impossible for anyone to pick what 10 different ways a battle may play out, corresponding with the infinite amount of ways each choice they make can be changed.
Nonetheless, I'd say Combustion Man.
@Jezer: If you honestly believe that a dude with one straightfoward attack. With no shielding or foot speed, can repeatedly defeat the most powerful earthbender, in a house made of earth, sitting on top of earth, who can attack without CM knowing he is attacking, who can attack in various ways, can travel unseen underground, with morals off.... then I will see you in another thread.
@pooty said:
@Jezer: If you honestly believe that a dude with one straightfoward attack. With no shielding or foot speed, can repeatedly defeat the most powerful earthbender, in a house made of earth, sitting on top of earth, who can attack without CM knowing he is attacking, who can attack in various ways, can travel unseen underground, with morals off.... then I will see you in another thread.
Yeah, I honestly believe that a dude who can create explosions with his mind. With fast reaction speed, and the ability to blow up everything the "most powerful earthbender" throws at him, as well as destroying any shields the "most powerful earthbender" makes, who can tell what attacks Bumi is doing by the movements he has to do to perform the attack, who can launch his attack way faster than the time it takes for Bumi to make any movements and perform any Earthbending, a guy who was greatly feared by Aang, Sokka, Katara and Toph, a guy who made Zuko look like a pitiful child when Zuko tried to stop him from attacking the Avatar, the only person in the entire show who can create explosions with his mind. Can beat Bumi the earthbender who never made any attempts to be agile or mobile, who fought in traditional head-on Earthbending style, who has exactly zero dodging speed feats. On his turf, in his own palace. Multiple times....yes.
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