#1 Edited by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

Specimens 48925 and 48763; Day 1

--------

On the day that The Branches of Universes were linked, heroes and villains were brought over by The Others for a series of tests. The Others made a slight miscalculation when transporting Specimen 48925, a.k.a. Wolverine. When Wolverine woke up, he found himself 2,000 ft. above The Island, and landed unconscious.

Specimen 48763, a.k.a. Taskmaster: Wolvvverine. Wake up "bub"!

Wolverine: nngghhh... What... The... Hell.

Taskmaster: Not quite partner!

Wolverine: You? What the hell makes you think I'll partner up with you?

Taskmaster: Why not? We know each other, which is more than what I can say for whoever else is out there. You aren't sure of who you can trust. Not to mention, I already know your address!

Wolverine: What are you talking about?

Taskmaster: I'm talking about that mansion you have behind your ass! I got one just like it a little ways back. I figured I'd do some scouting first. But then I see your sorry ass getting dropped out of the sky! That coulda gotten a like or two on my FB status. So anywho, whaddya say? Wanna partner up for the time being?

Wolverine:.................................... Ugh. Fine! But we do things my way.

Taskmaster: We'll see about that.

--------

Specimens 48663 and 48501; Day 1

The first thing Specimen 48501, a.k.a. Daken did was to do some scouting as well.

Daken: *sniff* I smell you little man. Come out from your hiding spot.

*Specimen 48663, a.k.a. Jean Paul Valley/Azrael, jumps from the limb he's perched on*

Azrael: Enhanced senses. Interesting. You aren't exactly human are you?

The next thing Azrael knew Daken had disappeared. However, he felt a slight gush of wind behind him, and calmly reacted by moving his head to the left before Daken could stab it with his claws. From there he proceeded to break his fingers with one hand.

Daken: Agh! Not exactly.

Azrael: Enhanced speed and retractable claws, as well as skill. Are there any more surprises I should be aware of?

Daken: I gotta healing factor.

Azrael: Mhm. Perhaps we shoul--

Daken: Team up? Sorry but my parents taught me not to hang out with strangers.

Azrael: Something tells me you're not a man who obeyed his parents very much.

Daken: *smirks* You could say that.

Azrael: Then it is settled. I am to assume you have a mansion like I do?

Daken: I do.

Azrael: Then let's go.

--------

Taskmaster stayed at Logan's place, while Azrael stayed at Daken's place. The next day, each team decided to do more scouting. And as soon as they got close enough, Wolverine and Daken could smell each other, and then proceeded to sprint into each other's direction.

--------

@dondave @strider92 @sync1 @dane Alright guys. So in case you haven't noticed, you all have mansions. This just so happened to be the case, but living quarters will vary for each contestant depending on the number he chose.

Each mansion is designed like this. The perks for the mansion are the following:

-A good night's sleep (two bedrooms)

-Gourmet meals

-Two bathrooms.

-Hunting rifles w/ ammo

-A set of steak knives

-An exercise room

-A backpack full of bread, protein bars, and bottled waters

-A med-kit

-A pair of radios

Taskmaster and Wolverine start at 19. Daken and Azrael start at 30.

dondave and Strider92: Wolverine and UDON Taskmaster

sync1 and Dane: Azrael and Daken

Don't forget to post your character's standard equipment below (if he has any).

Best of luck to both of you!

#2 Edited by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: Thanks for getting this up so fast. Hopefully I can get enough debating done before I leave for France on Saturday as i'll only have access to the web via smart phone for 6days so that would make debating rather hard (in hindsight I probably should have thought ahead)!

Taskmaster has his UDON equipment. Pistols, Katana, Weapons generator, holoprojector etc....

#3 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: So do I have to wait until we're given out or perks before I start debating or am I good to go?

#5 Posted by Dratini1331 (7028 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent, now fight for my amusement my gladiators MWAHAHAHAHAHA ^_^

#6 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

Super excited to get under way. Good luck to everyone.

#7 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: You already got your perk dude! You gotta mansion and the goodies it gives you listed below :)

#8 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok. I'll put up an opening post on how I personally see this going down.

Honestly, I think this is a bad matchup for Wolverine/Taskmaster because of Daken's extremely good showings against his father. On top of that, your team will be relying on Logan's senses to alert them of danger which won't work against Daken and leaves you both open to stealth takedowns. Truth be told, Daken could quite possibly solo your team. Azrael in the mix makes it a stomp and I'll show you why.

In a lot of battle threads with Daken, his phermones aren't allowed. This tourney didn't have any such rule and it's part of why I chose Daken.

Here we have one use of them. i.e. scent masking. Not only can Daken mask his own scent, he can also direct the phermones to objects to make them scentless.

Now I don't see why this can't be used by Daken to mask Azrael's scent in addition to his own. At the same time Daken can still smell both of your characters. So we get a very decisive advantage. We can track you, you can't track us. We pick where and when we want the fight to go down. If you're chilling in the mansion eating food, we could have Daken in the bathroom waiting for you to take a leak and eviscerate one of you, making it a 2v1. If you're out in the wilderness, even more places for cover and stealth.

I know what you're thinking though. Scent isn't the only enhanced sense Logan has. But the proof is in the pudding. Here Wolverine has no way of tracking Daken. Can't hear him or smell him. He only knows he is there once he closes the door behind Wolverine and calls out to him.

Just for some background, here is Daken giving an explanation of how his manipulation via pheromones works. Daken uses his pheromones on Cyber to make him panic so bad he has a heart attack and dies.

Here is Daken explaining again how he can manipulate emotions. You can see by the girl he casually walks past how fast they work on people.

Here he manipulates a girls emotions so that she literally throws herself in front of a bus.

Now back to the strategy at hand. The ambush situation I described is by far his go-to strategy.

Tussles with Spider-Man. Opens with an ambush. Note what Peter says about having no idea Daken was about to kill him except for his Spider-Sense.

He also manages to get the drop on Cyber who in his second body could telepathically track anyone on the planet. Even Wolverine is impressed.

And if it comes down to Daken vs Logan you guys are in really big trouble.

First Battle

Second Battle (interrupted by Charles Xavier later)

Like I said, I think Daken has the goods to solo. I can show very clearly that Daken > Logan. Honestly? I'd put JPV above Taskmaster too. But sync can represent his character well enough in that department. If you need more showings for Daken against a wider variety of opponents I'd be happy to provide. But I think it's a pretty open/shut debate. Let me know what you guys think.

#9 Posted by sync1 (2960 posts) - - Show Bio

No one tagged me. Lol. I just happened to stumble across this thread.

Anyway, my starting equipment is my suit, flaming wrist blades, and flaming sword.

@strider92

@dondave

#10 Edited by Dextersinister (6004 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane: When the OP has no telepathy or in this case mind powers you can safely assume that mind control in any variation will not be allowed.

#11 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Just explaining how they work. Some background on how powerful they can be. My strategy didn't have anything about manipulating people's minds. In my strategy, I only used the part where he masks his scent with pheromones so he can't be detected by his father.

#12 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

I edited my opening post so it is a bit more clearly defined how I see this playing out.

#13 Edited by sync1 (2960 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane: Considering Wolverine recently killed Daken I find it hard to believe that Daken>Wolverine. In the second fight Wolverine is even refusing to fight back. Daken is his son after all and has often expressed guilt and sorrow about whats happened to him I find it hard to believe that Logan has ever gone into a fight with Daken completely prepared to kill him. Daken's stealth while admirable is inconsistent at times. He has been detected by Deadpool, Hawkeye and Thing and yet Wolverine who senses are far better than anyone I have mentioned and yet he couldn't detect him? Seems unlikely. That fight took place in Daken Vs Wolverine's first encounter the fight that always sets the stage for a villain. Heck Mr. X KO'd Logan despite the fact he doesn't have the strength to do so. He was then subdued by Nuke and a few Thunderbolts later in his career. Spider-man was beaten by the likes of Scorpion in their first encounter but has consistently defeated or held his own since.

Suffice to say the first time a character appears especially if they are a villain are nearly always over-played in the first encounter due to the fact the writer needs to make them a threat. Taskmaster himself took on Iron Man and Captain America in their first encounter and yet I would never argue he could ever defeat them both.

Taskmaster and Logan both have admirable feats of stealth. I'll let Dondave back up Logan but here's few from Taskmaster.

Breaking into Stark Tower un-detected:

Breaking into SHIELD before their eyes having previously broken into SHIELD un-detected:

Don't get me wrong Taskmaster won't beat Daken in a random encounter but saying Daken could solo this when Logan has proved his equal despite that fact he wasn't willing to go all out against his son is hyperbowling Daken.

The way I see it our Team is a much better match. Logan and Tony while they have their differences have never been enemies and with Taskmaster on an Avengers team now he's pretty much a good guy.

Daken however has proven to work badly with nearly everyone he's ever met. In the Dark avengers for example he pissed off Bullseye and Venom:

Not to mention Azrael wears armor called the suit of sorrows. This suit actually talks to JPV and makes him attack people who are evil and sin. Daken would instantly be judged sinful and JPV even against his own volition would be more likely to attack Daken than aid him. Due to this your team doesn't so much match poorly as much as downright provoke each other (Daken in-character does not play well with others and the suit of sorrows will almost certainly force JPV against him) your team is just as likely to kill each other as they are us. Wolverine and Taskmaster on the other hand have no such problems in fact both of them being on the Avengers team now, they are more likely to work as a team.

When it comes to an all out fight Taskmaster has a few advantages. His UDON gear allows him to copy hero's standard gear making them out of pure energy such as Wolverines claws, Cap's sheild and Spider-mans webbing:

This makes Taskmaster incredibly versatile as not only can he emulate other peoples skills but also their weapons. Spider-man's webbing could come in handy for an incap.

Azreal for all his great stats is a bit of a brawler as we saw with his fight against Bane. Taskmaster knows a lot about never strikes:

Despite their huge size and durability Taskmaster was able to nigh one-shot Ant-man, Stature and Yellow Jacket with one throw. If he can hurt them he can bypass JPV's durability.

With his UDON gear Taskmaster is far from normal human in stats for example:

Here he manages to push his sword into a stone pillar while speed-blitzing. The best thing about UDON Gear is Tasky's speed boost:

He has insanely quick reflexes.

Not mention he can temporarily make himself super humanly fast. This is Mr. Isley:

He's able to catch bullets after they are fired with apparent ease.

This is what happened when Taskmaster went all out:

He blitzed so fast that a guy who can catch bullets with ease couldn't keep up with him.

His speed boost also allowed him to dance around Iron Man. Now don't get me wrong Taskmaster would never win in a fight with Iron Man and he openly admits that in the scan. However due to his speed he is able to avoid Iron Man quite convincingly and prove he can use a stronger opponents physicals against them:

Suffice to say Taskmaster with his UDON gear is damn fast and damn agile and able to switch between heroes standard gear as well as their skill-set. 1 minute you could be fighting Spider-man and the next Captain America. Tasky is unpredictable and thats his edge. He can seamlessly switch between fighting styles and even use multiple ones at the same time:

He's also no stranger to fighting skilled opponents.

He beat Cat someone who has taken on Shang-Chi.

And took on both Cap and Bucky at the same time:

Even with his hands chained up and unarmed he took out Black Widow (that is Natasha but she's in disguise) and headman (Taskmaster is dressed as Deadpool):

Anything Azreal brings to the table is nothing Taskmaster hasn't fought or bested in the past. In fact due to his ability to copy fighting styles Azreal will soon end up fighting himself. What it comes down to is that our team works better together (by works better I mean they won't try to kill each other) and have the combined combat experience between them both to take the win.

@fetts hopefully you'll let this debate keep going past the 19th as I leave for France tomorrow at 5am T.T so I won't be able to participate until the 19th. I hope this isn't a problem and I apologize profusely to my partner @dondave hope fully you can work something out if you can't wait that long.

#15 Posted by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane: If Daken masks his scent Wolverine can use his enhanced hearing to track him. This means that even if Daken Cloaks himself and Azrael, Wolverine can still detect where they are through hearing the hearts beating or them breathing. He's used it in the past to detect Invisible opponents.

The only reason Daken survived for so long is that Wolverine consciously holds back when he fights him, as he once said Daken is his son and loves him and therefore doesn't go all out against him as noted by Daken in some of their battles.

Even in their the first battle that you showed Wolverine was holding back. He was waiting for Bucky to come and shoot Daken, so that he could try and heal Daken.

And as repeatedly shown in the second battle you showed, Wolverine adamantly refused to fight Daken due to his guilt over Itsu's death and this cannot be taken as evidence of Daken's superiority over Wolverine.

Wolverine has also shown his superiority to Daken in terms of Martial Arts skills and was holding back when doing so.

If Wolverine decides to stop holding and go full out he can take advantage of the fact that Daken bones are not covered in Adamantium This means that Wolverine can dismember and behead Daken, something Daken couldn't do to him.

#16 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

Considering Wolverine recently killed Daken I find it hard to believe that Daken>Wolverine. In the second fight Wolverine is even refusing to fight back. Daken is his son after all and has often expressed guilt and sorrow about whats happened to him I find it hard to believe that Logan has ever gone into a fight with Daken completely prepared to kill him.

Are you referring to the fight where Daken is drowned in one panel even though he has recovered from being burned to ash? Or are you referring to the story in his own book where he had a terminal illness, no healing factor and fell off a roof? Because I can't say either of them is a good combat feat for Logan. The times they have fought, both with their powers working, Logan has gone down hard every time.

You guys said Wolverine has killed Daken but then say he has never been prepared to kill him. What?

And how is prepardness to kill going to affect anything? Batman is never prepared to kill people and he takes down his enemies just fine. Read the scans I posted. Wolverine flat out says on panel that Daken is better than him and he couldn't beat him if he wanted to. Instead of typing out the most skewed viewpoint you can to try and twist things your way, read the plain English from the comics. It's why I post scans.

Daken's stealth while admirable is inconsistent at times. He has been detected by Deadpool, Hawkeye and Thing and yet Wolverine who senses are far better than anyone I have mentioned and yet he couldn't detect him? Seems unlikely. That fight took place in Daken Vs Wolverine's first encounter the fight that always sets the stage for a villain. Heck Mr. X KO'd Logan despite the fact he doesn't have the strength to do so. He was then subdued by Nuke and a few Thunderbolts later in his career. Spider-man was beaten by the likes of Scorpion in their first encounter but has consistently defeated or held his own since.

Did you want to post some scans so people can see what you mean or just make it up how you like? I have scans of all of those fights and in none of them was Daken attempting stealth. Deadpool and Thing he was just toying with and are we talking about the fight where Hawkeye takes down the entire Dark Avengers line-up solo? Because I won't pretend that makes much sense. At any rate, none of them involved Daken using stealth and I already posted scans explained how Daken hides his scent with pheromones. If you can't be bothered to read that explanation of my characters powerset then I can't do much to educate you.

Mr. X beat Logan with martial arts. He is a superior martial artist. Again, post scans for clarity on what you mean there. Nuke and Scorpion are so physically enhanced I don't see the comparison between them and Daken/Wolverine.

Don't get me wrong Taskmaster won't beat Daken in a random encounter but saying Daken could solo this when Logan has proved his equal despite that fact he wasn't willing to go all out against his son is hyperbowling Daken. The way I see it our Team is a much better match. Logan and Tony while they have their differences have never been enemies and with Taskmaster on an Avengers team now he's pretty much a good guy. Daken however has proven to work badly with nearly everyone he's ever met.

Still waiting on Logan being Daken's equal. Since he beats him soundly when his powers are working. And on Daken playing well with others? He worked with the Avengers and Fantastic Four without issue. He can use his pheromones to make people like him better. He doesn't 'play badly with others' he gets what he wants. Bullseye and Venom are both people who murder wholesale for no reason. Most characters wouldn't get along well with them. Saying Daken is a bad egg for not getting along with them is like telling me I'm a bad person for not wanting to share an apartment with Charles Manson. That's pretty flawed.

Not to mention Azrael wears armor called the suit of sorrows. This suit actually talks to JPV and makes him attack people who are evil and sin. Daken would instantly be judged sinful and JPV even against his own volition would be more likely to attack Daken than aid him. Due to this your team doesn't so much match poorly as much as downright provoke each other (Daken in-character does not play well with others and the suit of sorrows will almost certainly force JPV against him) your team is just as likely to kill each other as they are us. Wolverine and Taskmaster on the other hand have no such problems in fact both of them being on the Avengers team now, they are more likely to work as a team.

Actually Azrael doesn't wear the Suit of Sorrows. That's Michael Lane. For most of his appearances as Azrael, JPV wore a suit similar to Batman's, but styled differently and with some wrist blades. If he had the Suit of Sorrows he would be almost invincible so it wouldn't even matter if we worked together.

This makes Taskmaster incredibly versatile as not only can he emulate other peoples skills but also their weapons. Spider-man's webbing could come in handy for an incap.

Untrue. Whilst I love Taskmaster as a character, he has never shown the ability to use Spider-Man's webbing to web people up. He's a great martial artist, can make shields and whatnot. However, he has never webbed anyone up. There is no evidence to suggest the energy weapon has the ability to disconnect it's constructs from the generator nor in large enough amounts to web someone up. Taskmaster has only ever used it to web-sling away from an explosion.

Suffice to say Taskmaster with his UDON gear is damn fast and damn agile and able to switch between heroes standard gear as well as their skill-set. 1 minute you could be fighting Spider-man and the next Captain America. Tasky is unpredictable and thats his edge. He can seamlessly switch between fighting styles and even use multiple ones at the same time.

Again, I love Tasky. He is a great martial artist. But don't forget who he is. A regular human with the ability to copy style. Daken fought alongside Taskmaster in Siege. He knows all about his abilities. The main point I want to make here and the one you're conveniently forgetting: Taskmaster is below peak human in all areas. Yes, he can momentarily speed up his kung fu but

A) He can only do movie kung fu at that speed, which isn't employing high-tier fighting skills. He took down a guy with no skill using this. The only thing super about his opponent was his speed and Tasky amped up his speed momentarily to match.

B) He states on panel that if he did it too much he would suffer severe muscle damage. Since his body doesn't have the superhuman muscles to support what he is doing.

So yes, you can come at us with some bad kungfu at impressive speed. That doesn't make Taskmaster superhumanly agile or fast. He can only execute acrobatics that his olympic level muscles can support. He isn't even a match for Captain America in physicals. Daken and JPV are both above that.

He beat Cat someone who has taken on Shang-Chi.

The Cat has taken on Shang-Chi. He didn't beat him though. The Cat has no real feats except beating Deadpool. So that makes the fight pretty meaningless.

And took on both Cap and Bucky at the same time

Took on, but didn't beat either. If you read the panels, Steve actually walks away from the fight because he doesn't think Taskmaster is worth it. And the end of the fight is never shown, but both fighters Bucky and Taskmaster are both alive and well afterward. So I don't think Tasky won that.

Even with his hands chained up and unarmed he took out Black Widow

Black Widow? That's not very impressive dude. She wouldn't even be in the top 25 Marvel Universe martial artists. Nor is she enhanced like Daken or JPV. Blocking bullets is cool but I'm not shooting at you.

Anything Azreal brings to the table is nothing Taskmaster hasn't fought or bested in the past. In fact due to his ability to copy fighting styles Azreal will soon end up fighting himself. What it comes down to is that our team works better together (by works better I mean they won't try to kill each other) and have the combined combat experience between them both to take the win.

Are you sure? Azrael who stalemated Deathstroke, beat senseless Batman, beat a Venom-fueled Bane? Taskmaster is one of my favorite characters but he would not do any of those things. Taskmaster has a wider knowledge of martial arts. No doubt. But he wouldn't beat JPV. JPV's martial arts are strong but his enhancements are what tip him over both of your characters. He's too strong, too fast, too agile. I'll leave it to sync to post scans but Taskmaster has never fought and beaten anyone like Azrael.

Your teamwork is an optimistic view of a Marvel anti-hero working with a Marvel villain. I'm skeptical at best but the OP says you guys agree to work together. The same way it says my team agrees to work together. My team has no reason to mistrust each other like yours does and Daken has been able to smooth-talk everyone he has met. But the debate is so one-sided you've taken the "teamwork will cover a multitude of flaws" line. That's fine. I'll take the "my team beats yours and here is why" line.

#17 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

If Daken masks his scent Wolverine can use his enhanced hearing to track him. This means that even if Daken Cloaks himself and Azrael, Wolverine can still detect where they are through hearing the hearts beating or them breathing. He's used it in the past to detect Invisible opponents.

Except I already posted scans showing why that isn't true. His pheromones cloud the senses of others.

He literally doesn't hear anything except the Daken closing the door behind him and Daken calling out to him. It's because Daken is using his pheromones, stealth skill or a combination of the two. And keep in mind in the scan you posted, the thing he attacked was standing right next to him for an extended period of time. Why would Daken not attack Taskmaster first and why would he choose to hide right next to them? I already outlined in my first post that he would wait for them to get separated before taking one of them (probably Taskmaster) down.

Even in their the first battle that you showed Wolverine was holding back. He was waiting for Bucky to come and shoot Daken, so that he could try and heal Daken.

Actually he wasn't. You're thinking of a different fight. At the end after that fight Cyber arrives. It's not until after that Wolverine makes the carbonadium bullets. Same time Tinkerer makes Cyber's carbonadium pacemaker. At the end of the battle I've posted, Daken just leaves Wolverine with Cyber, expecting one to kill the other.

Here are the scans of after the battle just so everyone knows what happened.

No Bucky in sight.

And as repeatedly shown in the second battle you showed, Wolverine adamantly refused to fight Daken due to his guilt over Itsu's death and this cannot be taken as evidence of Daken's superiority over Wolverine.

Again, not actually true. He is trying to bait Daken into making a bad move. The fight is interrupted as I said, by Charles Xavier, who shows Daken that Wolverine didn't kill Itsu. Romulus did.

Wolverine has also shown his superiority to Daken in terms of Martial Arts skills and was holding back when doing so.

Why don't you post the rest of the fight? That is one page. If I posted one page from all of the fights they've had I'm sure I could make Daken seem untouchable. I remember that fight ending evenly. What issue was that in? I'll go dig it out and post the entire fight.

You take one page from one fight where Wolverine lands one kick. Suddenly Wolverine is top dog? What? There are so many things wrong with that line of reasoning. It was one kick and the fight ends evenly because Wolverine has the Muramasa Blade. And he still doesn't kill Daken. You don't even have the M-Blade in this. I didn't scan that fight up because the equipment difference made it irrelevant.

If Wolverine decides to stop holding and go full out he can take advantage of the fact that Daken bones are not covered in Adamantium This means that Wolverine can dismember and behead Daken, something Daken couldn't do to him.

So you're saying Wolverine in-character holds back. But if you have him act out of character, which isn't an option in this scenario, you might win. So it's still something you can't do?

I agree that Wolverine hasn't been trying to kill Daken in a lot of ways, but Daken wasn't trying to kill him either.

Please read the text on this one. It's from Wolverine: Origins #36. These are sequential pages (yes, you can post more than one for context). This is after Chuck Xavier shows Daken his reasons for revenge against Logan were made up by Romulus. He doesn't hate his father at this point. But he doesn't forgive him letting Romulus escape either.

He puts Logan down easily but he doesn't use his newly acquired Muramasa Claw to kill him even though he could. So your whole 'Wolverine is at a disadvantage' thing is totally wrong. Daken is his better.

You and Strider both seem really big on either quoting things out of context or flat out making things up. If you want the whole issue then I'll scan the whole issue. What I'd rather you do is actually read the comics these scans are coming from. I read them and I've told you how they play out. I can show everyone what is printed and what happened. It's not going to hurt my case when I do.

#19 Posted by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane:

All Daken did was Mask his scent from Wolverine, if his full range of abilities were used there he could have used his hearing to track Daken from the sound of his heart or breathing which he has done before

I'm talking about the first battle you showed. The one where Deadpool was also in the same place with them.

He baiting him because he doesn't want to fight him, Daken literally tells him to fight back, even from Wolverine's internal monologue we know Wolverine was holding himself back.

Their fight was interrupted by an explosion that page with Wolverine getting up first and stabbing Daken in the chest and then cuts off Daken Muramasa Claws. There is nothing else to add. Even from the scan Wolverine could have decapitated Daken if he wanted, like always he holds back when he fight Daken

#20 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

All Daken did was Mask his scent from Wolverine, if his full range of abilities were used there he could have used his hearing to track Daken from the sound of his heart or breathing which he has done before

So he was trying to track someone but didn't use his full range of senses? Even though he comments on hearing the door slam? Ok, seems legit.

I'm talking about the first battle you showed. The one where Deadpool was also in the same place with them.

I never posted his fight with Deadpool. He wrecks Deadpool but like you said, Wolverine tries to stall him. That's why it isn't a proper fight between Wolverine and Daken, even though Daken wrecks him too. I showed you three other separate instances of Daken dominating Wolverine. How about we discuss those before you move on to the other battles Wolverine lost?

He baiting him because he doesn't want to fight him, Daken literally tells him to fight back, even from Wolverine's internal monologue we know Wolverine was holding himself back.

His inner monologue says "Bite it down. Keep it down. Keep it controlled." That doesn't say he's holding back. It says he doesn't want to lose control. He is trying to make Daken angry and not lose control of himself. It's a tactic. High tier martial artists? They don't lunge at each other like animals and with good reason. He was waiting for Charles to step in but he was also losing soundly to Daken long before he even knew he had a son. So the entire line of reasoning is garbage.

Their fight was interrupted by an explosion that page with Wolverine getting up first and stabbing Daken in the chest and then cuts off Daken Muramasa Claws. There is nothing else to add. Even from the scan Wolverine could have decapitated Daken if he wanted, like always he holds back when he fight Daken.

Yes, I remember that part. So he stabbed Daken while Daken was on the ground after an explosion. That isn't a fighting skill feat. That's blindsiding a barely conscious dude who probably has a chest full of shrapnel. Has nothing to do with fighting or being better. He held back on killing his son, as I've already shown his son has held back on killing him. That doesn't mean Daken won't put Logan down hard in a straight fight as I've shown numerous times. And again, to make it all possible, he had the M-Blade. Which he doesn't have here. So what is your one, totally out of context, page really worth?

#22 Edited by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane: I said the instance I wasn't talking about was after Daken battle with Deadpool. It's not a proper fight because Wolverine wasn't really fighting he was just stalling for time.

He was telling himself not to lose control so he doesn't go ape-sh*t and kill Daken.

I showed you the scan of the battle because that's all that was needed. I didn't initially mention anything after the explosion because it had nothing to do with their fight. You brought it up because you wanted context to the rest of the battle.I didn't try to use of anything from that as a skill apart from their fight hence why I only posted the page of them actually fighting. The M-Blade had nothing to do with the fight.

#23 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:

I said the instance I wasn't talking about was after Daken battle with Deadpool. It's not a proper fight because Wolverine wasn't really fighting he was just stalling for time.

I know. Like I said, I didn't post that battle. So I don't know why you're arguing about it. But now that you mention it, Wolverine didn't win it either. But it does beg the question: Why did Wolverine need Bucky to shoot him if he had any chance of taking him down himself?

He was telling himself not to lose control so he doesn't go ape-sh*t and kill Daken.

The implication that he could beat Daken when his healing factor was working is erroneous. Yes, he did want to save his son. But he didn't have any hope of killing him in that fight and you've provided no evidence to the contrary.

I showed you the scan of the battle because that's all that was needed. I didn't initially mention anything after the explosion because it had nothing to do with their fight. You brought it up because you wanted context to the rest of the battle.I didn't try to use of anything from that as a skill apart from their fight hence why I only posted the page of them actually fighting. The M-Blade had nothing to do with the fight.

Him landing one kick after Daken was blown up was all the evidence you need to prove that Wolverine is better? When I have him losing 3-4 times in lengthy battles? Ok. Good luck.

#24 Posted by dondave (36583 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane:

The first set of you scan you showed involving Wolverine and Daken is form the same issue where Bucky shot him. He had Bucky shoot him because he needed to slow down Daken healing factor so that he could heal him.

Their fight was before they were both blown up. He'd already beaten Daken down and could have killed him if not for the fact that's not what he wanted to do.

#25 Posted by sync1 (2960 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92:

Actually, the Suit of Sorrows is worn by Michael Lane. The alliance won't be a problem.

Anyway, Azrael's speed is greater than Taskmaster's, definitely. If you're saying TM's speed (normal human) is greater than ENHANCED speed, you've gotta be kidding yourself.

When he fought with Deathstroke, Slade mentions that JPV is quick. He is also a bit stronger than DS. They were stalemating, but personally i think JPV would of came out victorious due to the physical enhancements.

http://imageshack.us/a/img126/5876/feat7aj5.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img129/9983/reflexes3al2.jpg

So first of all, Taskmaster wouldn't even see Azrael coming. This means that Azrael gets the first hit. That first hit isn't going to be good, considering that Azrael is insanely strong:

http://imageshack.us/a/img84/7044/strength4bun5.jpg

Taskmaster simply wouldn't be able to keep up with Azrael. He's too fast and way stronger than Taskmaster. He's physicals got him a win over Batman:

(If you want me to, I can put up the full fight.)

He even took on Robin, Nightwing, and Batman at once (this also showcases his great strength)

There's no way Taskmaster can keep up with Azrael, plain and simple. Everything Taskmaster has done, Azrael can do.

#26 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@dane:

The first set of you scan you showed involving Wolverine and Daken is form the same issue where Bucky shot him. He had Bucky shoot him because he needed to slow down Daken healing factor so that he could heal him.

Their fight was before they were both blown up. He'd already beaten Daken down and could have killed him if not for the fact that's not what he wanted to do.

The first set of scans I showed involve how Daken's phermones work. The first fight with him and Wolverine is the one where Bucky isn't involved. What?

If he wins the fight, why are you so afraid of posting it?

#27 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7896 posts) - - Show Bio

this battle is pretty good i have readit several times and keep teading it keep up the good work all of you:)

Online
#28 Posted by sync1 (2960 posts) - - Show Bio

this battle is pretty good i have readit several times and keep teading it keep up the good work all of you:)

Haha Dane and Don are duking it out. xD

#29 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: @dondave:

I know you guys are away, just reply when you get a chance and we'll continue the debate then.

#30 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

Still awaiting a response.

#33 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: @sync1: @dane: @fetts: Crap the call out didn't send a message to my inbox when I got back. I apologize profusely to my team-mate and my two opponents.

#34 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow... this is a tough one... but I think I'll go with Daken and Azrael. Great job both teams!

#35 Posted by Stompa (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like viper this is propanly the toughest battle but I think I give it to tasky and Wolverine by a slight margin due to the awesome udon scans that really impressed me.

#36 Posted by sync1 (2960 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: @sync1: @dane: @fetts: Crap the call out didn't send a message to my inbox when I got back. I apologize profusely to my team-mate and my two opponents.

Sorry for not really debating much, but you guys didn't reply (not pointing fingers at all).

#37 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Vote goes to Dondave and Strider92.

#38 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10877 posts) - - Show Bio

DD and ST92 got my vote

#39 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm giving this one to Dane and sync1.

#41 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

Agh! Forgot To Close The Voting On This One. @dondave And @strider92 Are The Victors! I Have To Say I'm Kind Of Surprised. I Would Have Figured Team 2 Would Have Gotten More Votes Due To Strider's Absence. But Anyways, The Majority Has Spoken. Thank You @dane And @sync1 For Your Participation! You Guys Definitely Put Up A Good Debate!

#42 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Dane and Sync1

#43 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire: I want to except this... But I kinda named @strider92 and @dondave the victors already. I'm not sure if I should. I do kinda feel about this one though. @strider92 didn't really participate much, and @dondave put in some. But I know @dane in particular was excited for this tournament, and he clearly put in the most time and effort into his argument. And I really think it was clear that he had the better argument. @sync1 did good as well. I'm really quite shocked that people voted for Team 1. Perhaps I'll talk it over with the co-hosts.

#44 Edited by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts:

Well hey, them's the breaks.

Everyone's vote counts the same, even if they didn't read the debate. I won't say more than that. I'm happy to accept the outcome because that's just how tournaments work.

#45 Edited by HigorM (3737 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, the result seemed unfair as already stated by @fetts, Dane presented more convincent arguments to the table, I guess that we should look again on those voting rules to avoid this kind of things in the future.

#46 Posted by Dane (10596 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, I actually have to argue against that on principal. Even if it's to my own detriment.

Did they even show up to the debate (Strider92) or bother to challenge my overwhelming evidence (dondave)? No, they didn't. Did most of the voters just come and vote for some familiar names without looking at thread? Yeah, almost certainly.

But it's a vote based system, so the votes have to count. dondave did come and write a few posts, technically as a team they did show up. You can't just overrule an outcome that you don't agree with. It would make any future vote-based decisions meaningless. If you guys want to leave the voting open longer so more people can cast their votes (and maybe read the thread), then that's one thing. But if voting is closed and they're in the lead, then it's their win in my book.

#47 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane: Ah. Well I'm glad to hear that. But you see the thing is, after discussing with the co-hosts and dondave, we just might have to give it you. Mainly because Strider92 isn't going to be very active for the next three weeks anyways, thus decreasing dondave's chances of winning Round 2 significantly. So we told @dondave of the dilemna. Because if I accepted Esquire's vote, I would have felt it unfair for him and @strider92 since we named them the victors. At the same time, I felt like if I didn't accept it, it would have been unfair for you and sync because dondave's chances of winning in Round 2 aren't high, and meanwhile you two could have won but didn't simply because one vote was late. So we told dondave that we could do either of the following:

-Take his slim chances and debate for both characters, regardless of the fact that he wouldn't know if Strider would be ok debating for his character.

-Give it you and @sync1.

-Reopen the votes and let the voters decide who should go through.

Dondave chose to give it to you and @sync1, as long as we contacted Strider about it. I'm not entirely sure if he's going to respond because as he said, he's going to be busy. I said I'd wait until today to see if he responds. Hopefully he will. But I have a strong feeling that he would be ok with it. He really seemed like he expected and was prepared to lose.

Another thing is that some of us felt like we shouldn't discount @esquire's vote because we can be pretty certain that he actually read it.

So it looks like you and @sync1 are probably going to make it to Round 2 after all.

#48 Posted by Strider92 (16290 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: I'm completely ok with giving them the win.

#49 Posted by Fetts (4449 posts) - - Show Bio