Arsenal vs Red Hood

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#1  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

 
 
Arsenal (Roy Harper) 

 
 

VS 
 

Red Hood (Jason Todd)

 
 
 
 
Location:  
  
 
Standard city environment.  Unpopulated, vehicles are stationary.  Everything is on limits. Begin 100 feet apart.

 
 


 
Rules:

-Random encounter.

-Both are in character (morals apply, Roy is not suffering drug withdrawal).

-Standard elimination rules (KO, incapacitation, bfr, death).

-Jason Todd has his gear from 'Under the Hood.'

-Roy Harper has his gear from the latest 'Titans' run. 
-Don't just say who you think wins, give reasons.

Avatar image for mercy_
Mercy_

94955

Forum Posts

83653

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 15

#2  Edited By Mercy_

You double posted. What a noob.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#3  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

Please disregard the dupe and use this one for the debate.
Avatar image for epitomeofcool
EpitomeofCool

2806

Forum Posts

30

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#4  Edited By EpitomeofCool

think this has been done....anyhow I want to go w/ jason but roy has got alot more experiance....
 
 

Avatar image for jedixman
JediXMan

42943

Forum Posts

35961

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 16

#5  Edited By JediXMan  Moderator
@EpitomeofCool said:
think this has been done....anyhow I want to go w/ jason but roy has got alot more experiance....
 
 

Different rules and conditions.
Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#6  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

I saw that, but I felt the scenario made things a bit unorthadox (starting at opposite ends of a massive building).  With this they're visible in a more direct environment.  Slight difference in gear, too.  
Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7  Edited By buttersdaman000

Didnt Grayson demolish Roy in the Outsiders run? I read the issue at a library so im not entirely certain....

Avatar image for god_spawn
god_spawn

46824

Forum Posts

35524

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 43

User Lists: 10

#8  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

Heh I even made this fight this once. Anyways with this distance to start I think Roy has a pretty good shot to nail Jason though Jason has  the faster weaponry cause of the guns. Roy uses daggers as Arsenal if I'm not mistaken? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If Jason can close the distance by using the environment to his advantage ducking between cars and such and can get this to a close range, I'd see him taking Roy out. He did give Bruce a run in their encounter before Bruce even knew who he was and Jason has always been close with Grayson and he even gave Ollie and Speedy a good fight.

Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#9  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@buttersdaman000
I know Grayson sucker-punched him and easily dropped him one time, but there's also this one.  Not sure of the circumstances, I've only seen the scans and never read the issue. 
 
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow
@buttersdaman000 said:
Didnt Grayson demolish Roy in the Outsiders run? I read the issue at a library so im not entirely certain....
That was years ago.  And Dick didn't beat him easily at all.  He beat him easily in Nightwing during the Renegade though. 
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow
@k4tzm4n: Have you read Titans 38? It had Roy beating Deathstroke up but only because Deathstroke didn't care anymore so don't be surprised if you see those scans. 
Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By buttersdaman000
@k4tzm4n
If I remember right, Grayson did end up beating Arsenal in that, but again, im not completely sure.
Here are some other scans of Arsenal vs Nightwing, including the ones you just posted.
http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1242363.html
 

This is from the Nightwing series. Grayson won this fight but Arsenal wasnt expecting it at all.

Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13  Edited By buttersdaman000
@Nihilus_Shadow
Ahh ok.
The fight they had in the NW series was kind of one sided though. Dick blindsided him.
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow
@buttersdaman000: I don't know why you think someone needs to fully be prepared and that people can't win fights when they get attacked by surprise.  This was just like the Taskmaster Agent X ordeal we were discussing in the other thread.  Roy was standing right there, if he's too slow or not skill enough to block a few a hits and fight back then that's his own fault and not Nightwing's. 
Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#15  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@buttersdaman000
Yup, that's the fight I summarized with this post: 

I know Grayson sucker-punched him and easily dropped him one time 

 
 
  
@Nihilus_Shadow:
I saw, he also held his own against GraysonBat.  But it's impossible to use fights from the current Titans run as evidence in debates because...let's face it, they're not consisent or well written at all--- just entertaining. 
 
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow
@k4tzm4n said:
@buttersdaman000
Yup, that's the fight I summarized with this post: 

I know Grayson sucker-punched him and easily dropped him one time 

 
 
  
@Nihilus_Shadow:
I saw, he also held his own against GraysonBat.  But it's impossible to use fights from the current Titans run as evidence in debates because...let's face it, they're not consisent or well written at all--- just entertaining.  
Exactly, I usually take feats from that series with a grain of a salt. 
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow

I'm going with Jason.  His overall martial arts feats are better IMO and his standard weaponry is better. 

Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18  Edited By buttersdaman000
@Nihilus_Shadow
Because I know the difference between them. A fair fight is a fair fight. If somebody sucker punches you when youre unprepared, youre already at a big disadvantage....even more so when the other person is in your skill level.
A punch to the face or a kick to the gut takes a lot out of you when you arent ready for a fight. Thats why theyre called sucker punches.
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow
@buttersdaman000 said:
@Nihilus_Shadow:  Because I know the difference between them. A fair fight is a fair fight. If somebody sucker punches you when youre unprepared, youre already at a big disadvantage....even more so when the other person is in your skill level. A punch to the face or a kick to the gut takes a lot out of you when you arent ready for a fight. Thats why theyre called sucker punches.
Again you're assuming that one someone gets sucker punched then that's it for them.  There's no hope for them to actually win.  That's far from true and I can think of several instances off the top of my head. 
Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By buttersdaman000
@Nihilus_Shadow
Never said that. I just said it puts em at a big disadvantage....which it does. If a character comes back from a sucker punch or a sneak attack than thats great, but I just dont think wins via sucker punches are all that great.
Avatar image for nihilus_shadow
Nihilus_Shadow

129

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By Nihilus_Shadow
@buttersdaman000 said:
@Nihilus_Shadow:  Never said that. I just said it puts em at a big disadvantage....which it does. If a character comes back from a sucker punch or a sneak attack than thats great, but I just dont think wins via sucker punches are all that great.
That's the idea that you kept passing off though, it's even worst in TM's case since he actually had the chance to fight back, threw several hits that missed, used weapons and still got his ass kicked.  I'm not going to derail this thread any further but I think I've made my point clear. 
Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22  Edited By buttersdaman000
@Nihilus_Shadow
Ill PM you because we are going way off topic now
Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#23  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

Does anyone have any other good Red Arrow / Arsenal showings?
Avatar image for slick23
slick23

461

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#24  Edited By slick23

^ I can probably post some scans from his JLA days... lol. But I'm new here, and I don't know how to do that yet..maybe imageshack? 
 
Anyways, both are my favorite character, and I myself don't know who to pick...Jason the crazy Robin, or Red Arrow the crazy ...Arrow.. lol.

Avatar image for buttersdaman000
buttersdaman000

23713

Forum Posts

60

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By buttersdaman000
@slick23
Wait....uhhh....didnt he fight Bronze Tiger in JLA?
Avatar image for slick23
slick23

461

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#26  Edited By slick23
@buttersdaman000: Lemme search it up real quick..been a while since I've read some JLA stuff! >:P.. But I think he did..
Avatar image for k4tzm4n
k4tzm4n

41857

Forum Posts

9127

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 16

User Lists: 1

#27  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator
@slick23
Thankfully, this site has a very easy image uploading system.  You can save the image file anywhere you wish (desktop, a folder, etc).  Then when you're ready, click the "insert" tab above the typing box, then image, and then my desktop.  Select the files and bazina, they'll post.
Avatar image for slick23
slick23

461

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#28  Edited By slick23

I see, thats a nice feature! wow. Still looking for it..argh .. >_< Maybe his Wiki have some feats? Haha

Avatar image for velle37
velle37

6116

Forum Posts

346

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By velle37

Roy wasn't really out in that scan where Nightwing one shotted him. He was pretending to be unconcious, doing recon to see if Nightwing had gone evil (which Nightwing was pretending to do, to keep his connections despite Deathstroke's presence). 
 
The best showing I can think of for Roy is him beating the Tangent Universe Atom off-panel. Tangent Atom has the ability to alter the density of things I believe, and teamed with Tangent Flash to pwn Kyle as Ion somehow, sending him to the bleed. Atom bfr'd Canary, and broke Roy's bow. This pissed him off, and when other JLAers came to check on him they found Atom unconcious and Roy standing. 
 
Though that scene makes little sense to me (One: that this guy and Tangent Flash could own Ion, Two: that Roy could then beat him, after he dismissed canary like nothing). 
 
Roy's advantages are having perfect aim with anything, cybernetic arm, and more experience. 
Jason's advantages are better tactics, h2h training, and deadlier weapons. 
 
I give it to Red Hood after a good fight.
Avatar image for zoom
Zoom

14751

Forum Posts

10175

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By Zoom

I don't think Jason has better tactics at all.  Roy led the Titans and Outsiders for years.   
 
(Roy being delegated to Jason's sidekick is an insult when he's lead superteams but then again, since DC's history is being reduced to 5 years, all Teen Titans and most Flash continuity is being erased entirely.....which makes me wonder why I should bother with DC anymore.)

Avatar image for zoom
Zoom

14751

Forum Posts

10175

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By Zoom

Oh no, I'm not reading marvel except when Slott or David is writing or when Irredeemable Ant Man, Nextwave or the Pet Avengers show up.  :p  I know exactly what I get out of Marvel big event books/most ongoings. 
 
Same goes for DC but DC had me invested in the characters in the Flash and Titans books after reading decades worth of material for them and since that's going out the window, they're pretty much leaving me with JLI and Tiny Titans if that didn't get canceled. 
 
 
 Fighting Gotham City criminals as a kid is great.  Fighting supervillains with the power to control the weather as a kid is better.

Avatar image for deactivated-5ed476aa4e89a
deactivated-5ed476aa4e89a

6090

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Jason's hand to hand is better but Roy has the cybernetic arm, Roy's aim is definitely better, I'm gonna have to go with Roy because experience, aim, weaponry, and that arm.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084
deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

12990

Forum Posts

676

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Bump.

Avatar image for allstarsuperman
AllStarSuperman

51192

Forum Posts

148

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

Jason

Avatar image for deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084
deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

12990

Forum Posts

676

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Avatar image for brucerogers
brucerogers

19255

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

I don't see why Jason doesn't win a comfortable majority

Avatar image for wewlad80
Wewlad80

3411

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Jason is just better than Arsenal in everyway as a character and as a fighter. Sad actually..

Avatar image for allstarsuperman
AllStarSuperman

51192

Forum Posts

148

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 1

@lubub55: Ehhh maybe. I'm not as familiar with Post Crisis Roy as I am with new 52.

Avatar image for deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084
deactivated-5d6bc0cd36084

12990

Forum Posts

676

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

Could go either way, I think.

Avatar image for isaacthrash
isaacthrash

134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

batman joins the fight and slaps them both

Avatar image for heirtothekingdom
HeirToTheKingdom

9226

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42  Edited By HeirToTheKingdom

Jason.

Avatar image for alucardvanwayne1800
alucardvanwayne1800

1610

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Jason is taking this between the two of them jason has already made it clear he is willing to go further i see roy holding back in this fight jason isnt going to he may regret it afterwords but he is going to take roy on with everything he's got this may be close with the distance but when (not if) jason closes that gap and it becomes hand to hand jason is going to beat roy senseless