Arrow/Malcom vs Steve Rogers

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NEEK_03

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#1  Edited By NEEK_03

Arrow and Malcom

Gear: Standard gear and 20 arrows in quiver. (Arrow types can range from anything seen on the show)

vs

Captain America (1st Avenger/Avengers MCU)

Gear: Shield

Fight is to KO and takes place in an abandoned NY.

Random encounter, who wins and why?

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rogueshadow

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#2  Edited By rogueshadow  Moderator

Cap wins.

And there is no d in Rogers.

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Wolverine008

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Steve.

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Experio

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Rogers

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Wolverine008

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Cap wins.

And there is no d in Rogers.

There is now!

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homicidalmaniac

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Steve

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NEEK_03

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#7  Edited By NEEK_03

@rogueshadow thanks, sorry typo.

i'm going against the grain here....i think oliver and malcom both have better h2h skill than steve, and they have the range.

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kgb725

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@neek_03: They are slower and aren't as strong and they arent getting past the shield

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shroudofsorrow

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Cap still wins. I wouldn't go as far as to say he outright stomps but he does win easily.

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NEEK_03

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#10  Edited By NEEK_03

@kgb725 what feats from either movie show steve fighting in a faster speed then molcom/oliver do in the show. Steve is skilled with the shield but its not like ppl havent been shown disarming him.

Not to mention these are both highly skilled archers who can attack him from both angles.

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tg1982

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@neek_03 said:

@kgb725 what feats from either movie show steve fighting in a faster speed then molcom/oliver do in the show. Steve is skilled with the shield but its not like ppl havent been shown disarming him.

Not to mention these are both highly skilled archers who can attack him from both angles.

Who's disarmed Steve in the movies? I don't remember that happening. And as for Cap's speed, in the CA:TFA he catches up to a hydra agent making a getaway in a car. I think Cap takes this, and takes it fairly easily. IMO.

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NEEK_03

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@tg1982 thats traveling speed, not combat speed. unless he is running from them or towards them that speed isn't going to help him in a fight really.

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kgb725

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#13  Edited By kgb725
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Wolverine008

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@neek_03 said:

@tg1982 thats traveling speed, not combat speed. unless he is running from them or towards them that speed isn't going to help him in a fight really.

He was fast enough to land multiple strikes and evade blows from a Loki whom deflected bullets. That's pretty nifty combat speed right there.

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Sy8000

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I think either has a good chance, but I didn't watch winter soldier so I'll avoid commenting.

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RBT

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Oh boy. Team Arrow stomps.

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Fallschirmjager

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@neek_03 said:

@tg1982 thats traveling speed, not combat speed. unless he is running from them or towards them that speed isn't going to help him in a fight really.

He was fast enough to land multiple strikes and evade blows from a Loki whom deflected bullets. That's pretty nifty combat speed right there.

That's also ABC Logic and Loki never deflected bullets, they just bounced off his armor/skin. Loki is an arrow timer, but are you seriously going to use "oh this guy tagged him so he must be as fast"...come on now.

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RBT

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#18  Edited By RBT

@tg1982 said:

@neek_03 said:

@kgb725 what feats from either movie show steve fighting in a faster speed then molcom/oliver do in the show. Steve is skilled with the shield but its not like ppl havent been shown disarming him.

Not to mention these are both highly skilled archers who can attack him from both angles.

Who's disarmed Steve in the movies? I don't remember that happening. And as for Cap's speed, in the CA:TFA he catches up to a hydra agent making a getaway in a car. I think Cap takes this, and takes it fairly easily. IMO.

He's not racinng against Oliver and Merlyn. Team Arrow stomps.

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kgb725

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@rbt: How would they stomp ? Cap is stronger and more durable than slade and Ollie hasn't done any damage to him whatsoever. The shield will protect him from there arrows and one hit from it could severely damage one of them

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afueikawa

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#21  Edited By afueikawa

@tg1982 said:

@neek_03 said:

@kgb725 what feats from either movie show steve fighting in a faster speed then molcom/oliver do in the show. Steve is skilled with the shield but its not like ppl havent been shown disarming him.

Not to mention these are both highly skilled archers who can attack him from both angles.

Who's disarmed Steve in the movies? I don't remember that happening. And as for Cap's speed, in the CA:TFA he catches up to a hydra agent making a getaway in a car. I think Cap takes this, and takes it fairly easily. IMO.

Loki did. Then Cap goes for H2H and got beaten.

But I'd still say Cap. More durable.

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RBT

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@kgb725 said:

@rbt: How would they stomp ? Cap is stronger and more durable than slade and Ollie hasn't done any damage to him whatsoever. The shield will protect him from there arrows and one hit from it could severely damage one of them

That's not even remotely true. Slade actually tanked a bullet from point blank. He punched a hole in a person.

Cap won't be able to block all the arrows from either of Malcolm or Oliver when fighting them one by one let alone together. He is not fast enough.

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kgb725

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#23  Edited By kgb725

@afueikawa: @rbt: Yea he is ollie has missed before and he got handled by grundy who is a brick through and through. Loki did not disarm him with any techniques the fight was leaning towards loki but he didnt do anything significant. We all know Loki > Ollie&Merlyn

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Veshark

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I haven't seen Arrow yet, so I probably can't make an informed call. But I'll just drop this one clip from The Winter Soldier which more or less illustrates Cap's physical superiority to an ordinary human, as well as his shield-throwing skills. While there are no plot spoilers, I wouldn't want to ruin any of the movie's scene for anyone, so WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK:

Loading Video...

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RBT

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@kgb725 said:

@afueikawa: @rbt: Yea he is ollie has missed before and he got handled by grundy who is a brick through and through. Loki did not disarm him with any techniques the fight was leaning towards loki but he didnt do anything significant. We all know Loki > Ollie&Merlyn

Grundy too him by surprise both times. And Oliie did defeat Grundy remember?

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RBT

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@veshark said:

I haven't seen Arrow yet, so I probably can't make an informed call. But I'll just drop this one clip from The Winter Soldier which more or less illustrates Cap's physical superiority to an ordinary human, as well as his shield-throwing skills. While there are no plot spoilers, I wouldn't want to ruin any of the movie's scene for anyone, so WATCH AT YOUR OWN RISK:

Loading Video...

Honestly that's not saying anything about Cap's physicals. Widow with Cap's shield(and throwing skills) could replicate that feat.

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Veshark

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@rbt ....You're kidding, right?

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@veshark said:

@rbt ....You're kidding, right?

Actually, no. Which part of video showed his above human strength/durability exactly?

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#29  Edited By Veshark

@rbt said:

@veshark said:

@rbt ....You're kidding, right?

Actually, no. Which part of video showed his above human strength/durability exactly?

Sigh. Fine, I'll indulge you:

  • Cap, while on his bike, was able to weave through repeated gunfire from a gatling gun at close-range.
  • Using a single hand, he tossed his shield with enough strength and accuracy to jam up the Quinjet's turbine. The distance alone is greater than what any peak human could replicate.
  • After the plane started spinning around and Cap was tossed into the air, he was able to ram his shield hard enough into the jet's side. Again, something a peak human couldn't do.
  • From his position on the jet's wing, he was able to do a 180 degree backflip onto the jet again.
  • A final shield throw knocked out both thrusters, and then Cap leapt off and landed from a fair height.
  • Also, if memory serves, Cap did this after fighting at least 12 men inside a confined elevator, as well as surviving a high fall from several stories up.

To say that Widow could replicate all that is just...well, silly really. A peak human like Natasha has done nothing to justify that she could single-handedly take down a Quinjet, even with Cap's shield.

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Wolverine008

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#30  Edited By Wolverine008
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kgb725

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@rbt: And what did he do that was so special to beat him ?

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Shawnbaby

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#32  Edited By Shawnbaby

@rogueshadow said:

Cap wins.

And there is no d in Rogers.

There is now!

You don't put the "D" in Steve Rogers...Steve Rogers Puts the "D" in you.

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@veshark said:

@rbt said:

@veshark said:

@rbt ....You're kidding, right?

Actually, no. Which part of video showed his above human strength/durability exactly?

Sigh. Fine, I'll indulge you:

  • Cap, while on his bike, was able to weave through repeated gunfire from a gatling gun at close-range.
  • Using a single hand, he tossed his shield with enough strength and accuracy to jam up the Quinjet's turbine. The distance alone is greater than what any peak human could replicate.
  • After the plane started spinning around and Cap was tossed into the air, he was able to ram his shield hard enough into the jet's side. Again, something a peak human couldn't do.
  • From his position on the jet's wing, he was able to do a 180 degree backflip onto the jet again.
  • A final shield throw knocked out both thrusters, and then Cap leapt off and landed from a fair height.

To say that Widow could replicate all that is just...well, silly really. A peak human like Natasha has done nothing to justify that she could single-handedly take down a Quinjet, even with Cap's shield.

  • That's because of bad aim of firing. He was bot moving unlike any normal person does when trying to avoid something. If that scene were to happen in a real life with a real gunner behind the bullets, believe me, sidetracking as bit won't make them not shoot in your head.
  • A lot of that has to do with shield's aerodynamics. Though I agree that Cap is above peak human, I won't use this feat as his best strength feat. A normal person can throw a boomerang to over 500ft. World record is over 1400ft. Cap hardly threw his shield to 100-200ft, or even less.
  • Again, a lot to do with the way shield is designed. In CATFA, it was able to cut a very thick metal door without much force behind it.
  • That shows his agility. Nothing a well trained human can't do.
  • Shows his throwing skills and precision which I never denied. It however, doesn't show his strength. Most of the damage was done by the shield, and I doubt he could replicate it with any other shield but his own vibranium one.

Its not silly or anything. Widow has shown agility on Cap's level if not better. With Cap's shield and his throwing skills, she'd be able to replicate the feat.

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@kgb725 said:

@rbt: And what did he do that was so special to beat him ?

You have seen their second fight video? Oliver was not getting tagged at all by Grundy. In their second fight, Grundy took him by surprise and almost KOed him. After he got up, he landed a few blows on Grundy and then fired an explosive arrow which sprayed acid on Grundy. All while without getting tagged.

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kgb725

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@rbt: Grundy practically killed him Cap will oneshot him with the shield

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Wolverine008

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#36  Edited By Wolverine008

Still Steve.

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@kgb725 said:

@rbt: Grundy practically killed him Cap will oneshot him with the shield

Grundy gave his best shot and Oliver still got up. Cap is not oneshotting anybody here. Especially with his shield thrwo. Oliver and Merlyn has dodged arrows on various occasions. Shield throw would be all but useless. One thing in favour of Cap here is that the Match is to be won by KO and not death. Otherwise both Merlyn and Oliver could solo with an arrow between the eye.

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kgb725

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@rbt: When has cap not deflected anything coming at him ? Ollie isnt the greatest shot in the world hes had his arrows blocked plenty of times. If cap hit either one of them with the shield full force they would be unconscious injured or dead. Has ollie hit any big name characters that can fight on the show it seems like he misses or its deflected in every showing

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@kgb725: Oliver fights people with better reflexes than Cap. Bronze Tiger, Merlyn, both can dodge/catch his arrows. That doesn't mean his arrows are slower, it only means that BT and Merlyn have great reflexes. And when has Cap blocked anything but blows and very slow projectiles(the grenade from Chitauri) with his shield. Don't bring up that blocking bullets in WS trailer. He was moving blindly while blocking a part of his body. Anybody with half a mind would have thought to shoot him in leg.

Again, Cap is not as strong as Grundy. And Grundy couldn't oneshot him. Cap is not going to be able to. Especially with his shield throw because of Oliie's and Merlyn's reflexes.

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@rbt

  • Come now, that's hardly a justifiable counterargument. Cap was driving directly towards the Quinjet, and the plane's gatling gun had an extremely high-rate of fire. Factor in the close distance between the two as well. We clearly see Cap maneuvering the bike to avoid the gunfire. And we see the rounds landing exactly where his bike was moments ago. Your suggestion that it was 'bad aim' has no merit behind him. Which is a more likely interpretation of the scenario? That the Quinjet pilot's aim sucks, or that Cap was able to use speed to avoid the rounds?
  • I doubt aerodynamics are a big factor. There's nothing suggesting the shield has any superior dynamics to any other discus-shaped object. The boomerang comparison is also flawed. For one, a boomerang weighs much lighter, and is by design, meant to travel extended distances. The curvature of the object generates lift, something that can't be said for Cap's shield. For another: Cap isn't simply throwing the shield off into the distance here. He was throwing it to deliberately hit a target. The fact that he was able to make such an accurate hit at such a distance, with a shield, and with only one hand is something that I doubt any peak human could consistently replicate.
  • A door isn't the same thing as a Quinjet's armor. I think it's safe to say that the exterior fuselage of a Quinjet is significantly more durable than a door. To add, Cap clearly was unable to apply the full force of his strength. He was yanked into midair and had to ram the shield as quickly as he could. Yet he could still sink the weapon into the plane. And I'm not sure which door feat you're referring to...the only one I can think of is the one where Cap threw it to prop a door open.
  • Considering the height that Cap was able to pull the flip off, and the fact that he was able to retract his shield from the plane's armor? I won't go so far as to say it's impossible for a peak-human, but I certainly don't see it being easily pulled off by peak-humans like Hawkeye or Black Widow.
  • You're missing the point. It's not just his shield-throwing skills, but also the strength that it took to blow the Quinjet's turbines. It's clear that a great deal of damage was done by the momentum generated from Cap's own throwing strength. Vibranium in the MCU absorbs vibrations, and the object's durability played a part. But it's also evident that most of the force was generated by Steve's own strength. I don't really see how this one's debatable.

Agility is not the sole factor in replicating this feat. Widow might be able to evade the Quinjet rounds, but her throwing the shield to shatter the plane's turbine? Even if she had Steve's accuracy, she still lacks the raw strength to pull it off. What exactly has she done to suggest she has that level of arm muscle and upper-body strength? If she can't even get past Step Two...I'm pretty sure that Quinjet isn't going down.

And for the record, to give Widow Cap's 'shield-throwing skills' also makes your comparison shaky. It's clear that Steve's hand-eye coordination (aka the main factor that governs his shield throwing abilities) are derived from the SSS, not from any of his own innate ability. Making your peak human argument entirely moot.

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kgb725

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#42  Edited By kgb725

@rbt: No they dont and dont say something like "we havent seen cap react to anything impressive blah blah blah" if he hasnt had a chance dont say he can't. If grundy had a free shot he could one shot him ollie is the main character no way they would have him go down to someone that isnt the main antagonist consistently. Not everyone has the aim to shoot someone in the leg that isnt hust sitting there. But whatever how are the archers gonna put down cap they dont possess half the strength he does

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How Strong is Captain America?

Loading Video...

Stronger than this.

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thanosii

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@neek_03: if the new movie feats are allowed Caps is faster stronger and more durable. He took down a jet, beat up 10 highly trained armed agents in a small space and tanked jumping of a jet with no parachute, 4 bullets to his chest and stomach ( healing in a minute) run 15 miles in ten minutes.

This is a stomp...... How do i spoiler this

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#46  Edited By RBT

@veshark:

  • Come now, that's hardly a justifiable counterargument. Cap was driving directly towards the Quinjet, and the plane's gatling gun had an extremely high-rate of fire. Factor in the close distance between the two as well. We clearly see Cap maneuvering the bike to avoid the gunfire. And we see the rounds landing exactly where his bike was moments ago. Your suggestion that it was 'bad aim' has no merit behind him. Which is a more likely interpretation of the scenario? That the Quinjet pilot's aim sucks, or that Cap was able to use speed to avoid the rounds?

Even if it was, that's a feat for Cap's riding skills and bad aiming skills of whoever was firing. Are you really saying that Cap was actually seeing the bullet come and moving out the way? He was not maneuvering bike any faster than a skilled rider.

  • I doubt aerodynamics are a big factor. There's nothing suggesting the shield has any superior dynamics to any other discus-shaped object. The boomerang comparison is also flawed. For one, a boomerang weighs much lighter, and is by design, meant to travel extended distances. The curvature of the object generates lift, something that can't be said for Cap's shield. For another: Cap isn't simply throwing the shield off into the distance here. He was throwing it to deliberately hit a target. The fact that he was able to make such an accurate hit at such a distance, with a shield, and with only one hand is something that I doubt any peak human could consistently replicate.

So, a shield which was pretty much designed to be used in battle by throwing would not be designed to be thrown great distances? Really? Do you see the way it travels? In a curved path. That's the result of good aerodynamics. Boomerang weighs almost 200g and Cap's shield cannot weigh much seeing that a normal human was able to throw it to over 30ft without even trying.. Now, a non-peak human could throw that boomerang to over 10-15 times(maybe even more if I overjudged the distance thrown by Cap.) the distance Cap threw his shield. I'm not denying his skill of throwing shield. He hit the target and that requires a lot of precision and skill, which Cap posses. What it doesn't require is superhuman strength.

A door isn't the same thing as a Quinjet's armor. I think it's safe to say that the exterior fuselage of a Quinjet is significantly more durable than a door. To add, Cap clearly was unable to apply the full force of his strength. He was yanked into midair and had to ram the shield as quickly as he could. Yet he could still sink the weapon into the plane. And I'm not sure which door feat you're referring to...the only one I can think of is the one where Cap threw it to prop a door open

No its not. But it still damaged the door. Cap's shield is not made from everyday metal. I'm saying this again, I'm not denying that Cap is stronger than a peak human, I'm just saying that he has better feats in first 2 movies alone. i still haven't watched WS.

  • Considering the height that Cap was able to pull the flip off, and the fact that he was able to retract his shield from the plane's armor? I won't go so far as to say it's impossible for a peak-human, but I certainly don't see it being easily pulled off by peak-humans like Hawkeye or Black Widow.

Not by Barton, no. But Widow's flip in the beginning of Avengers to break the chair was very impressive.

  • You're missing the point. It's not just his shield-throwing skills, but also the strength that it took to blow the Quinjet's turbines. It's clear that a great deal of damage was done by the momentum generated from Cap's own throwing strength. Vibranium in the MCU absorbs vibrations, and the object's durability played a part. But it's also evident that most of the force was generated by Steve's own strength. I don't really see how this one's debatable.
  • Agility is not the sole factor in replicating this feat. Widow might be able to evade the Quinjet rounds, but her throwing the shield to shatter the plane's turbine? Even if she had Steve's accuracy, she still lacks the raw strength to pull it off. What exactly has she done to suggest she has that level of arm muscle and upper-body strength? If she can't even get past Step Two...I'm pretty sure that Quinjet isn't going down.

Widow is not in same league as Cap when it comes to strength. I never said that. Here, to pull of most of the feats Cap did, she doesn't need. Like I said earlier, a normal soldier threw Cap's shield to over 30 ft and could've gone much further had Cap not stopped it. Widow would have no problem throwing it at almost 100ft.

And for the record, to give Widow Cap's 'shield-throwing skills' also makes your comparison shaky. It's clear that Steve's hand-eye coordination (aka the main factor that governs his shield throwing abilities) are derived from the SSS, not from any of his own innate ability. Making your peak human argument entirely moot.

What makes you say that? Real people has hand-eye coordination as good and even better than Cap. Saying that it is the result of SSS is an assumption. It could easily be his skill.

@kgb725 said:

@rbt: No they dont and dont say something like "we havent seen cap react to anything impressive blah blah blah" if he hasnt had a chance dont say he can't. If grundy had a free shot he could one shot him ollie is the main character no way they would have him go down to someone that isnt the main antagonist consistently. Not everyone has the aim to shoot someone in the leg that isnt hust sitting there. But whatever how are the archers gonna put down cap they dont possess half the strength he does

He hasn't means he can't. That's how it works here,

Strength is not everything. Skill, speed and equipment generally amount to more. Ollie has shot harder targets than a leg that's running.

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r2datu

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#47  Edited By r2datu
@rbt said:

@veshark said:

@rbt said:

@veshark said:

@rbt ....You're kidding, right?

Actually, no. Which part of video showed his above human strength/durability exactly?

Sigh. Fine, I'll indulge you:

  • Cap, while on his bike, was able to weave through repeated gunfire from a gatling gun at close-range.
  • Using a single hand, he tossed his shield with enough strength and accuracy to jam up the Quinjet's turbine. The distance alone is greater than what any peak human could replicate.
  • After the plane started spinning around and Cap was tossed into the air, he was able to ram his shield hard enough into the jet's side. Again, something a peak human couldn't do.
  • From his position on the jet's wing, he was able to do a 180 degree backflip onto the jet again.
  • A final shield throw knocked out both thrusters, and then Cap leapt off and landed from a fair height.

To say that Widow could replicate all that is just...well, silly really. A peak human like Natasha has done nothing to justify that she could single-handedly take down a Quinjet, even with Cap's shield.

  • That's because of bad aim of firing. He was bot moving unlike any normal person does when trying to avoid something. If that scene were to happen in a real life with a real gunner behind the bullets, believe me, sidetracking as bit won't make them not shoot in your head.
  • A lot of that has to do with shield's aerodynamics. Though I agree that Cap is above peak human, I won't use this feat as his best strength feat. A normal person can throw a boomerang to over 500ft. World record is over 1400ft. Cap hardly threw his shield to 100-200ft, or even less.
  • Again, a lot to do with the way shield is designed. In CATFA, it was able to cut a very thick metal door without much force behind it.
  • That shows his agility. Nothing a well trained human can't do.
  • Shows his throwing skills and precision which I never denied. It however, doesn't show his strength. Most of the damage was done by the shield, and I doubt he could replicate it with any other shield but his own vibranium one.

Its not silly or anything. Widow has shown agility on Cap's level if not better. With Cap's shield and his throwing skills, she'd be able to replicate the feat.

That's because of bad aim of firing. He was bot moving unlike any normal person does when trying to avoid something. If that scene were to happen in a real life with a real gunner behind the bullets, believe me, sidetracking as bit won't make them not shoot in your head.

By this logic, literally every reaction feat of Oliver is invalid and he should have died in the very first episode.

That shows his agility. Nothing a well trained human can't do.

From a zero leverage position on a wildly careening flying platform, it is physically impossible for a "well trained human" to launch themselves into a full somersault. It's the equivalent of hanging off of a cliff and using only your wrist and arm strength to hurl yourself ten feet into the air into a somersault.Only the cliff is flailing wildly through the air.

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@rbt

  • So how do Cap's riding skills not factor into his reflexes? There's nothing pointing to the Quinjet's pilot having bad aim, and the scenario clearly makes it appear as though the jet has a direct line-of-sight for Steve. It's obvious it's Cap's own reaction time that allowed him to maneuver the bike out of the way of the bullets. An ordinary rider would not be able to move the bike out of the way as quickly as Steve did, and would likely get chopped up by all that gatling fire.
  • Here's the first flaw of your argument. The shield was not designed to be used for battle. It was specifically stated to be a prototype made from rare vibranium, and in fact, it wasn't even on Howard Stark's list of suggestions for Steve's shield. It was tucked away at the bottom of the shield table, and Steve stumbled onto it by chance. You said that a lot of the feat had to do with the shield's 'aerodynamics'. I'm not saying they don't play a part - but I'm arguing the bulk of it came from Cap's own strength and accuracy. Curved path? That's largely Cap's own skill. A physics professor actually went through the effort of calculating the weight of Cap's shield - and it amounted to 20kg. Of course this is just an estimate, but the point is that it weighs a lot more than a tiny boomerang. And modern boomerangs don't weight over '200g' - at best they're 25g-100g. Your analogy is skewed, and a feat like this would likely require superhuman strength.
  • You haven't specified which 'door feat' you're referring to. If you're talking about the one I mentioned, the shield didn't 'cut' through the thick door, it merely propped it open. And it was still Captain America's strength behind that shield throw.
  • Not good enough. Widow's chair-flip doesn't even compare to this one. Largely because of the height, and also because Cap pulled it off while on a Quinjet that was flying around like crazy. While Widow's chair feat was on a flat plane and stable surface.

Okay, seriously, you need to start specifying the feats you're quoting. Which normal soldier threw Cap's shield over 30ft? I'm thinking through all of MCU Cap's appearances, and I'm drawing a total blank here. Either way, doesn't your own statement defeat your whole argument? Yes, Widow has shown no major strength feats. So why argue that she would be able to replicate what Cap did here? I don't even see the point you're trying to make here now. Your arguments are just based on vague estimations.

Nope. There's more pointing to it being the SSS than Steve Rogers' own innate ability. Before the Serum, he was a scrawny weakling with a whole host of medical problems (watch the recruitment scene). After the Serum, he immediately masters shield-throwing combat. That's definitely not because of his own pre-Serum hand-eye coordination. I'm not saying a peak human can't replicate some of his shield feats, but it's an unfair comparison to draw for your Widow argument.

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RBT

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@r2datu:

By this logic, literally every reaction feat of Oliver is invalid and he should have died in the very first episode.

That was not a reaction feat. Cap was randomly swinging his bike and the man behind MG couldn't get a lock on him.

From a zero leverage position on a wildly careening flying platform, it is physically impossible for a "well trained human" to launch themselves into a full somersault. It's the equivalent of hanging off of a cliff and using only your wrist and arm strength to hurl yourself ten feet into the air into a somersault.Only the cliff is flailing wildly through the air.

In real world, yes it may be impossible, but not in media. Peak human do crazier stuff than this. I doubt any real human can replicate that flip done by Widow in beginning of Avengers.

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@veshark:

Okay, seriously, you need to start specifying the feats you're quoting. Which normal soldier threw Cap's shield over 30ft? I'm thinking through all of MCU Cap's appearances, and I'm drawing a total blank here. Either way, doesn't your own statement defeat your whole argument? Yes, Widow has shown no major strength feats. So why argue that she would be able to replicate what Cap did here? I don't even see the point you're trying to make here now. Your arguments are just based on vague estimations.

Before Cap followed RS in the airplane one soldier threw the shield saying "Roger, you might need this."

Why I'm arguing that Widow could replicate that shield throw feat even if she has no strength feat? Because she doesn't need to be superstrong to do so. If a normal soldier can throw a shield to 30 ft and it was not going to stop anytime soon. It was flying completely vertically(aerodynamics). Widow, who's is supposedly a peak human can do the same.

Nope. There's more pointing to it being the SSS than Steve Rogers' own innate ability. Before the Serum, he was a scrawny weakling with a whole host of medical problems (watch the recruitment scene). After the Serum, he immediately masters shield-throwing combat. That's definitely not because of his own pre-Serum hand-eye coordination. I'm not saying a peak human can't replicate some of his shield feats, but it's an unfair comparison to draw for your Widow argument.

Ok, now that I rewatched the video, a peak human might not be able to do that "shield in armor" thing, but feats like dodging bullets(strictly aim dodging), throwing shield to almost 100ft and landing on feet, these can be replicated by a peak human(media, of course).