Armorless Master Chief vs Boba/Jango Fett H2H

I already proved John has this. He is the MC. Even Leonidas can't outmatch that.

@reikai:

To put it bluntly, a bunch of 14yr olds had exceeded their expectations and were so dangerous during practice their their trainers had to wear protective armor to keep from being killed by accident. The exoskeletons which gave them 2tons of strength and doubled their speed, with auto-targeting systems, infrared and movement sensors, were all almost useless in taking on these Spartan-II's.

And John-117, who is not even the physically strongest of them, could still do things like this without really trying.

And these are still 14yr olds, only six months after the augmentation procedure. Furthermore...

These are things John is capable of at 14 and he only got stronger and quicker as he got older and adjusted further. Then you add in 30-odd years of combat experience fighting the Insurrection, Covenant, Flood, and Renegade Forerunners.

All things considered, as tough as the Fetts may seem, John is just in an entirely different league. Their armor may be tougher, but it's not going to save them from a 6'10", 300lb fighting machine. He ain't just the Goddamn Master Chief. He's the freaking Reclaimer.

Chief's on-paper statistics all sound impressive, and to a degree they are - but when you actually compare feats, the Fetts are not at all far off John from a physical standpoint. Jango being able to kick down a durasteel door, and kill superhumanly durable Jedi with single strikes is more than enough to suggest, with armor mind you, that he can hurt an armorless Master Chief. Going by speed feats, Jango Fett dodging blaster fire after it was fired, a physically near-identical clone reacting to a sniper/high-caliber blaster rifle after it was fired, with his back turned, and trouncing arguably seven, but at the very least four Jedi in unarmed combat, is enough to suggest he can keep up. Same goes for Boba who has floored a Jedi with a single strike, kept pace with Jaina Solo during a lightsaber sparring duel, moved as a blur to someone of his and Jango's physical class, has dodged blaster fire consecutively for about a 40 foot sprint, ect. John is hardly unstoppable in the physical department. And in terms of skill, the Fetts have him beat. John, by merit of physical strength more than skill, killed three experienced ODST's with punches? Pretty good. Let me know when he's killing seven Jedi with his bare hands, killing men in single deathstrikes without any kind of physical enhancement or flooring Jedi with single strikes. And to supplement that, Boba and Jango being Mandalorian Warriors - beings who are considered to be some of the best fighters in Galactic history, which is a major feat when you consider the expanse of the Star Wars universe and all the threats inside of it - also puts them at a higher skill level than John.

Between their superior skill, knowledge of death-strikes, approaching physical stats and in round 3's case, superior numbers, it'll be very hard for you to make a reliable case that they are entirely outclassed.

But of course you will reply with some more baseless statistics, lowball the feats I present, talk about how Jedi suck and featless ODST's are gods gift, and then end your post with another irrelevant video about how totally awesome MC is.

@i_like_swords: I don't underestimate Jedi. I just don't offhandedly give them all the feats and abilities of every other Jedi we know of. Calling every Jedi superhuman in both ability and durability is an outright laughable concept.

Nothing about Jedi makes them explicitly more durable than the average meatbag. And 99% of all Jedi don't wear any kind of protective armor. And those that do still aren't wearing anything particularly effective. We see Obi and Mace wearing the vambrace to Clone Armor and we know that stuff still can't handle even 1 blaster shot.

What explicitly about the Jedi that Jango took down in HTH made them superhuman? Because there are no on-panel feats displaying Those Jedi's abilities. They were quite literally cannonfodder. And since Jango was still alive, we can infer that the Clone Wars haven't started yet, and that somehow the Jedi Order as a whole was unaware that Jango had killed some of their members. We can also infer that these particular Jedi had absolutely no field experience whatsoever.

Saying he killed Jedi sounds impressive, but it doesn't prove anything about Jango's abilities when those particular Jedi had never done anything and were such braindamaged slugs as to not use their vaunted Jedi power or lightsabers against an opponent in Mandalorian Armor. There is also nothing suggesting that Jedi are any good at HTH combat. And I wouldn't bother with the claims of Teras Kasi since that was relatively New to the Jedi Order and the only Jedi Master of the martial art was killed by Darth Maul years earlier.

With the ODST's that John mauled when he was 14, we can infer that they had experience in battle. Several of them were noted with battle scars and there was fighting going on with the rebel Insurrectionists. We can also infer that ODST's are highly trained in HTH combat as per Standard Naval Marine Training. So, despite not seeing their displayed skill level, we're still aware that John's physical stats exceeded theirs by a large margin, even while he was still fairly fresh from surgery and hadn't adjusted to his augmentations yet.

And again, evading blaster fire isn't particularly difficult, especially since there is no evidence pointing to them even being as fast as bullets. Hell Wesley Snipes in "US Marshals" was evading automatic fire coming at him from an elevated position while racing through a cemetery. By that logic, Mark Warren (Snipes) has the same reaction and evasion abilities as Boba Fett.

The problem is, the feats are meaningless unless we can get some kind of approximation of ability from them. So ultimately, what we can argue and estimate On Paper, has more validity than displayed images that can't prove a damned thing. It's the same with peoples arguments about N52-Darkseid being so op because he "killed other Superman's across the multiverse", something we can't quantify because we have no idea what they could do and for all we know they were all babies.

Plus, the vids aren't pointless. They're entertaining. And in cases, educational.

Sangheili (Elites) aren't pushovers. Being able to contend with Spartan-II's in Mark-V armor isn't something to ignore. Sangheili are a warrior people, and quite frankly are akin to Predator ripoffs. Only made more so by their Zealots having Stealth Fields.

@reikai:

What explicitly about the Jedi that Jango took down in HTH made them superhuman?

The fact that they were deflecting blaster bolts which are at the very least bullet speed, and that one of the Jedi Jango killed was able to tank this fall without the slightest injury, due to his Force shields which grant him (and other Jedi) superhuman durability.

If that isn't superhuman durability then butter my butt and call me a tasty biscuit.

Saying he killed Jedi sounds impressive, but it doesn't prove anything about Jango's abilities when those particular Jedi had never done anything and were such braindamaged slugs as to not use their vaunted Jedi power or lightsabers against an opponent in Mandalorian Armor.

By nature of their training, superhuman speed, weapon lethality, and the fact these Jedi had just casually slaughtered every Mandalorian under Jango's leadership (which is impressive whether you'd like to admit it or not), it is impressive that Jango killed seven of them with single death strikes. No, they didn't use telekinesis. They did however attempt to use their lightsabers. It just didn't work.

With the ODST's that John mauled when he was 14, we can infer that they had experience in battle.

Except we have no idea of what they fought exactly, opposed to the Mandalorians that the Jedi in question slaughtered.

We can also infer that ODST's are highly trained in HTH combat as per Standard Naval Marine Training. So, despite not seeing their displayed skill level, we're still aware that John's physical stats exceeded theirs by a large margin, even while he was still fairly fresh from surgery and hadn't adjusted to his augmentations yet.

And Jedi, in particular Jedi Knights, are highly skilled with a lightsaber. Didn't help them against Jango, even three to one.

John won through merit of physical stats against opponents who would likewise be slaughtered by Jango (except, by merit of skill). Mandalorians are better fighters than ODST's, have knowledge of choke holds, pressure points and deathstrikes, and are considered the best of the best in the entirety of the Star Wars universe. Couple that with the fact Jango has proven he can take on people just as fast Chief, and can evade his superior strength through sheer skill, and you'd find that this fight isn't quite as lopsided as you'd like to portray.

But hell, it's not my problem if you have a vendetta against certain aspects of SW.

And again, evading blaster fire isn't particularly difficult, especially since there is no evidence pointing to them even being as fast as bullets. Hell Wesley Snipes in "US Marshals" was evading automatic fire coming at him from an elevated position while racing through a cemetery. By that logic, Mark Warren (Snipes) has the same reaction and evasion abilities as Boba Fett.

The fact they are far more powerful than laser weaponry, which has at this point been outdated for 4000 years, and that conventional firearms have been laughably primitive for something like 10,000+++ years at this point, as well as by the nature of the projectiles (high-intensity energy particles travelling through a shaft of light), it's more than obvious that they travel faster than bullets. Unless we're now saying that over the course of history, weapons manufacturers managed to regress in their design quality and made their weapons fire slower projectiles than firearms that have been irrelevant for about ten millenniums?

Nah.. I think I'll trust my logic over yours on this one.

The problem is, the feats are meaningless unless we can get some kind of approximation of ability from them. So ultimately, what we can argue and estimate On Paper, has more validity than displayed images that can't prove a damned thing. It's the same with peoples arguments about N52-Darkseid being so op because he "killed other Superman's across the multiverse", something we can't quantify because we have no idea what they could do and for all we know they were all babies.

I agree. That's why we couple the Jedi's on-paper showings along with their on-panel feats of deflecting blaster fire, demonstrating superhuman durability and slaughtering a squad of the best fighters in the universe without one casualty. On-paper, Jedi also have superhuman reflexes and precognition. I don't see what's so meaningless, but that's up to you to interpret.

@i_like_swords: Explosions are tanked likely because of an active application of Shield or Barrier, not just raw durability (no average Jedi can tank explosions). I'm less than convinced that they would have used active Force barriers against the Mandalorian's physical attacks though - especially since there doesn't appear to be any illustration of them.

Slightly off-topic, but I keep hearing about some young Boba Fett stalemating Mace Windu. Did that happen in TCW?

@shootingnova: Maybe, maybe not. I dunno. I guess there's no perfect way to validate that they had superhuman durability.. but killing them in one hit is still enough for me to make my case, I guess. I agree with your points though.

I haven't really watched those episodes. All I remember is from clips on youtube. Boba uses prep to put explosives in Jango's old helmet, and nearly blows up Anakin (who Mace saves). Then there was a more direct skirmish between them at some point but I honestly can't remember.

Apparently Boba comes close to getting his revenge in the last novel of his CW young readers series.. but I haven't read it, and I doubt many would have.

I think it's safe to say that Boba wouldn't last very long against Windu without a lot of circumstance aiding him.

@i_like_swords:

1. They have to have at least peak human durability, if not superhuman, but it depends because Jango killed one of them from behind, to memory. The other three that he killed head-on... kind of look amateurish.

2. Well, it sounds stupid enough.

Minor confusion, I was thinking Jango but writing Boba, I don't think it matters all that much anyway since MC can easily kill both of them at the same time.

Ok, so apparently these jedi now don't have precog (or else they wouldn't be tricked by the distraction) or even telekinesis (because then it would have been a simple matter to just incapacitate Boba as soon as he made a move), so what makes them special now? The fact that they held off Mandalorians? Spartans would annihilate Mandalorians even if they were outnumbered, you're not exactly helping your case. And I don't think I've ever seen a jedi deflect "bullet+++ speed projectiles". I've certainly seen them deflect blaster bolts, which go far slower than bullets.

Obviously not the exact same feat, but Jedi have been killed or defeated by clones (Order 66) and droids (Many times throughout the Clone Wars). Heck, how many times have Obi Wan and Anakin, two of the best jedi in the order, surrendered to either a handful of droids, or a band of mercenaries in the TV series?

Strictly Hand to hand? Everything. Brutes can take entire clips of assault rifle fire without faltering, and are strong enough to deform titanium A armor and bypass Spartan energy shielding in one hit. Especially if the jedi weren't using their force powers like in the panels. Seriously, none of those three jedi used a single force push. In fact, no one except the guy who jumped even made a swing with their lightsabers.

Actually, I've provided a lot of substance, almost all of it you haven't addressed at all:

@force_echo: Not even worth responding to, to be honest. Your entire post, and argument for Chief in general, is based off of arguments that I have already debunked in this very thread, and wishful thinking, along with a couple of deliberate misinterpretations and lowball remarks here and there.

Nothing about Jedi gives them inherently increased durability. They can die just as easily as normal humans can. Sure, they can use force shields, but you have literally no proof they were using them at the time. Master Chief can also kill in single hits, as indicated by the ODST feat.

Kicking down a durasteel door is not that impressive. Its the strength of the hinges and the material the hinges are connected to that makes the feat what it is, the door could be made out of solid diamond and it wouldn't be any more impressive. Dodging blaster bolts is not that impressive. They don't travel that fast. In fact, most G canon (movies, the highest canon) estimates put them at around 25 m/s. For comparison, in Fall of Reach, MC was able to dodge a few bullets from a MA5C, which has a muzzle velocity of 905 m/s. Also, the fact that you referred to a blaster as "high caliber" makes me suspect you don't really know what blasters are.

No, neither Jango nor Boba's physicals are anywhere near John's. Since Spartans aren't usually outside of the suit, we don't have a lot of data on their reaction times outside of the suit other than they're well above 300% fastest human speed. Since the fastest humans react would be about 100 milliseconds, this puts the Spartans outside of armor at about 30 milliseconds, even faster in a combat situation wherein they enter "Spartan Time" through the adrenaline rush. None of the feats you gave me suggest anything that's close to that number.

@force_echo: Actually we have estimates from Mendez himself who stated their reaction times were 20milliseconds, and stated they may even be faster during combat situations with adrenaline rushing. This is taken directly from the novels. And if the fastest human reaction time is 100ms, then John at 14 has 5x greater reaction speed while outside of battle. And without MJOLNIR armor.

The suits they stole and wore while in the cavern didn't increase their physical abilities one iota. The black suits did, however, block thermal readings. Either way, John and the rest are capable of damaging armor with little more than their bare fists. And as we saw, John kicked a guy in Mark-I armor 8m away (26ft), a man who'd weigh about 200lbs on his own, with around another 4-500lbs of exoskeleton. So upwards of around a metric ton of weight. And John sent it flying with a hard front-kick.

@i_like_swords: As for the query on a Jedi's 'super human' showing. No, it isn't. because it was a Specific Ability used. It's called Force Leap. It does not amplify a Jedi's speed nor strength It simply allows the Jedi to use the force to throw themselves higher and further. It does not amplify the Jedi's physical capabilities. Those're completely separate abilities that are not seen being used.

Also in that image we see that the Mando being killed wasn't even looking nor firing in the same direction that the Jedi was coming from. Something which any Mando using his motion sensors would've noticed right away. Something that only further proves that Mandalorians of the PT-Era were completely bogus, and the only ones of any worth was the Fett family, as per usual.

In all honesty, Mando's have been having a downhill track record since the Great Galactic War (SWTOR era), and the tech of the SWU keeps backtracking so often that people during "Knight Errant", which was only about a century before the Bane Trilogy (so around 1100BBY), were retrofitting ships leftover from the Mandalorian Wars (around 3900BBY).

Really their tech and materials haven't changed at all in millennia. Especially when you consider all the gadgets, ideas and super-weapons that're used during the Galactic Empire, were all based on and taken from tech developed millennia earlier. Some of the stuff, like that big Dark Side Superweapon that Dooku somehow finds on Korriban in some SW Game, was made thousands of years ago by the ancient Sith. So I never believe anyone who says tech during the Galactic Empire is better than KotoR era when GE has to keep renting it from Granpa Sith Empire.

Anyway, sliding back a bit more on topic. I'm not seeing the HTH skill from either Fetts being a danger to John because of his proven physical superiority and UNSC training and decades of experience bigger and more dangerous than the Spartan-II's were originally made to handle. The SII's were made to put down the Insurrection as quickly as possible to prevent civil war. The Covenant threat was unexpected.

The SII's weren't made under the premise of dealing with an advanced alien threat. But even so, they did a damned good job of dealing with it and were such a detriment to the Covenant that they referred to the Spartans as Demons, and were the source of much fear, anger, and rarely spoken respect.

Chief

You don't think he can win this battle?

@eisenfauste: most definitely not

@cable_extreme: Interesting.....

Lol. It's easy to generalize what someone's doing without actually engaging in a debate with them, isn't it? You haven't debunked anything, and you know it, otherwise you would have actually responded to what I've been saying instead of just attempting to deflate my argument on no grounds whatsoever.

Like I said before, the two Fetts get stomped. Forget about winning, they cant even lay a hand on the chief.

Boba's EU and Legends version could fight Chief even with his armor, so taking away the mjolnir and putting Boba's dad in this, the Fett's win 8/10

Chief pretty easily.

I really can't see unarmored Chief taking on both Boba and Jango when they are wearing their armors.

lmao.

This thread.

Fetts wreck.

They even slaughter the poor kid.

The fetts are awesome but even without mjolnir armor chief stomps. His muscles are like metal, he has amped physicals, can move really fast, is super strong, has dealt with a range of tough enemies, its just a matter of if jango and boba can evade him long enough and get a shot in before John closes the distance.