Arkham Batman vs Archers (Arrow CW)

Batman (Arkhamverse)

Oliver (CW) & Nyssa (CW) & Merlyn (CW)

Gallery

Standard weapons and gear.

Fight takes place in a dimly lit warehouse.

Arkam batman. Too strong too fast too durable too much equipment. Arrows are doing nothing to him when he can take gun shots.

Well to be fair Olivers arrows aren't regular arrows. They pierce metal:

I dunno about Malcolm's and Nyssa's.

Batman just needs to press the counter button on those arrows and he'll catch them XD but in all seriousness Batman takes this. Three all nighters fighting most of enemies and taking all of them out, including one scenario where he was slowly dying (arkham city) and one scenario where (don't read next one if you haven't beaten Arkham Knight yet ->) he's slowly going insane thats pretty badass

@ht003: Four all nighters*

Can't really see Batman taking all 3 of them...

Arkham Batman takes it with some difficulty.

I can

@monsterstomp: oh yeah lol "Another one..." *DJ Khaled voice XD

.

I can too

@ouroborik: @ninjawarrior268: Explain? I've seen it legitimately (and convincingly) argued that Batman would struggle to defeat Green Arrow alone let alone the top 3 archers in Arrow.

Bump. Kinda wanna see this further discussed.

Batman casually dodges the arrows and gets close. He then proceeds to put on a blindfold and hancuffs and effortlessly beats them to a pulp using only kicks. Gg.

Most Comic Vine users have a bad tendency of siding with rule of cool over actual feats and proven capabilities. The fact of the matter is that Arkham Batman is slow. He's not even a peak human. In fact he barely has any speed feats at all, and while Green Arrow can react fast enough to rescue somebody from a barrage of bullets fired by a master marksman by grabbing them and flipping them both over a railing before the bullets can reach, Batman can't even save people from a dart or taser blast without using his own body as a human shield. This isn't lowballing, this is directly comparing their actual, consistent capabilities.

Just look at how much faster Oliver is than Batman. And people are saying he can catch arrows just by pressing the counter button? Uhh, no. Batman has literally never ever been portrayed by Rocksteady as anywhere near fast enough to catch an arrow, he is exceptionally strong, but that bulk comes at a clear cost.

In terms of combat, Batman's best feats are keeping up with Lady Shiva, Deathstroke, Ra's al Ghul, and Bane. What do all four of these characters have in common? Their best feats are keeping up with Batman... That's called redundancy. AKA, he's basically featless.

Now the opponents that Oliver faces include an invincible super soldier who can move faster than the human eye can see, two centuries old grandmasters who move across rooms so quickly it looks like they're teleporting, and a 4000 year old immortal who has trained in every hold and pressure point known to man and can deflect a barrage of bullets and arrows fired at him simultaneously by two expert marksman just off of his staff, while tanking the Canary Cry.

As far as speed goes, Oliver can keep up with them all totally fine. Against Deathstroke he was overwhelmed by sheer strength, and against Savage he was ultimately defeated due to not being in the right state of mind. Darhk however was soundly defeated by Oliver in melee despite being at a severe strength disadvantage, and Oliver also holds a (controversial) victory over Ra's al Ghul.

Of course it's impossible for Oliver to actually be just as fast as these enhanced characters, but the fact that he is overall capable of regularly keeping up with these vastly physically dominant/more experienced fighters through his own combination of speed and skill, and even win in some cases, is a lot more than can be said for Batman. Sure Batman has his own counterparts to Ra's and Deathstroke, but both of them are featless besides... keeping up with Batman.

About Batman's only solid advantage is sheer strength. Not that Oliver is weak, he can break metal through sheer strength. But Bruce does the same thing more consistency. I admit that. But I can't even give Bruce the advantage in durability since he has enough trouble tanking hits from Bane (knocked out by a car) while Oliver tanks hits from Grundy and other Mirakuru users (10 tonners). One of the only times where Oliver was knocked out, was when Deathstroke, a super soldier, punched him in a pressure point. That's what it takes to knock Green Arrow out.

Nevermind the fact that he's a master archer. This is literally the most important part of the debate, but how can people ignore this fact,

Batman Has Absolutely No Defense Against Being Hit With Arrows.

Has he ever dodged a bullet? No. He can't even aim dodge, a regular thug can kill him if he gets spotted. Luckily he's enough of a stealth master to avoid that easily, but... against Oliver? The only noteworthy character who Batman has ever proven his sneaking against was Arkham Knight, who's best feat was... sneaking up on Batman... I'm starting to notice a trend here.

Oliver on the other hand, is even better than his comic book counterpart when it comes to tagging fast characters. Batman, stands no chance.

Oh, and his body armor won't be able to block an arrow either.

Dude, what on Earth leads you to believe that Batman can dodge even a single arrow when he is consistently portrayed as being slow?

INB4 Arrow wa-I was too late this time.

Bats wasn't slow to start with and got a considerable buff during the events of Arkham city (new suit) to the point he could blitz rooms full of guards and dodge missiles.

The dimly lit warehouse means stealth is likely an option, and I doubt anyone is capable of believing the CW team are close to him in that regard.

He holds most physical advantages, likely skill, his equipment and intellect is on an entirely different level.

Batman wins 8/10.

Wow OK so the real question here is what on earth makes you think arkham batman (who beats Slade, sheeva and her ninjas, dodges gunfire which includes deadshot, takes down dozens of trained ninjas and mercs in seconds, dodges missiles, defeats ras al ghul while drugged, etc.) Is slow. If anything arrow team fights extremely slow especially compared to arkham bats.

I've seen you on other threads. You love to wank arrow and hate arkham batman. Everyone agrees he stomps.

All those characters are featless and he never dodged gunfire.

Wow, so I make a detailed post directly comparing Batman with Green Arrow and substantiating every single comment I made with actual proof, and your big counterargument is screaming "WANK" and listing game mechanics. Wow, real nice.

Wow that's a poor argument. Last i checked shiva and slade had a pair of perfectly working feet. Besides They have plenty of feats, there's even a arkham novel and comic line that shows more feats. Hell arkham origins gave them all rap sheets of their skills and rank in that universe.

Even if you pair all of arrows "fodder featless" goons and villains against batmans: Batman still fights more, faster, deadlier, stronger, better armed, and with more skill then any arrow character has ever done.

Featless?.....What a joke. I'm done with you lowly dog.

@allhailskeletor: Name one of Shiva's feats.

Holding her own against Bruce (who fodderizes everyone in h2h) to near stand still. And training with him in the league of assassins temple. She literally has the shortest encounter with bats out of all of them. But still it stacks up with the countless people bats has fought.

That is some backwards ass logic. Batman beating Shiva is not impressive if Shiva's only feat is fighting Batman. That means the measuring stick for Batman is... Batman. I already addressed this in my original post. Do you actually have an argument, or just favoritism? Wouldn't it just be more simple to admit that I'm right, and Batman can't dodge an arrow, and then accept both of our furthered knowledge and move on?

Backwards logic is arkham bat is slower then the sluggish fighters from arrow. If her only feat is stalemating with a guy who beat prepped and fully armed Slade with just his fist and beats dozens of ninjas without breaking a sweat (just arkham origin feats alone), then that's a pretty damn good feat. Besides thats one out of the 50 big names batman has fought.

If your just leading off Shiva alone then your grasping at straws.

Your the last person who should be accusing ANYONE of favoritism, when fan wank arrow on every post. Your just the pot calling the kettle black. If you think batman dodging gunfire from soldiers, arkham knight, deathstroke, deadshot, and even robots and drones can't dodge arrows from people far weaker, slower and less skilled, then there's nothing to argue.

Admit that your right? Hahaha! That's like admitting red is the color of blue. It's completely backwards and makes no sense.

Name a single feat for Slade then. Name one time where Batman dodged gunfire.

@nickzambuto: Deathstroke in his mini campaign solod a bunch of men armed/trained with minimal effort. Then was the toughest person batman has ever fought (said by both Jason Todd and batmans database), then in the comics broke into black gate, was about to kill Jason until he offered Slade more money, then helped train him and armed him with tanks and soldiers. And told batman how he took out 3 russian t-80 tanks with a 1 rpg and punctured lung.

Gunfire: He dodged deathstrokes in a bossfight, dodge deadshots in a bossfight, dodged penguins grenade launchers, dodged arkham knights sniper rifle, and backflipped dodged missiles from a gunship. I've already told you this but you ignored it. So you lose automatically for ignoring that.

Your turn. Name one time either of these people have beat fully armed/armored/powered deathstroke with just their hands by themselves, after Slade had prep? Name one time Ollie has dodged missiles from a gunship. And name one time Ollie has beat ras al ghul one on one while being drugged.

I didn't even finish the word let alone scream it.

Suggesting he's slow because he took a bullet for two people is horrendous lowballing when you consider the fact he has feats like

Important bit at 6:20.

So forgive me if i don't give you the proper acknowledgement when your going to lowball basically every aspect of Bruce.

And what are you basing his armor not working against Arrows on? Its taken small arms fire from point blank, it'll do just fine.

Batman, stands no chance.

@buildhare: It's not horrendous lowballing, it's bringing up the actual limits of the character's capabilities. Batman is not limitless, it's important to get a full scope of what a character is actually capable of, from the low all the way to the high, instead of just looking exclusively at the high and painting a character as just being limitless. With Batman, he is consistently written by Rocksteady as being slow. That's why I was able to bring up TWO examples of him being unable to replicate with darts and tasers, what Oliver was able to do, with bullets. That is not lowballing, it's a good point. And there's nothing wrong with this, it doesn't make Batman a bad character or anything, it just makes him human. He's exceptionally strong, but at the cost of not very speedy. It's just a fact.

The problem here is that the scene you posted is literally Batman's ONLY speed feat throughout the entire quadrilogy. You make it sound like he does stuff like that all the time and I was just lowballing him, but in reality, I'm actually the one looking at him consistently.

And even taking the missile dodge at face-value, you're acting like the scene is some great, be-all, end-all speed feat that should completely shut down any hope of defending Arrow, but just because the scene went into slow motion doesn't make it actually impressive. Look at the actual facts; Batman just barely barrel rolled out the way of an RPG, fired from hundreds of feet away, while fully prepared and with a clear view of the shooter. That's still not even peak human, the great distance gave Batman more time to react. For example, the M72 LAW has a muzzle velocity of 475 FPS. That means if Batman was 475 feet away, he would have had a full second to react and dodge, which isn't very impressive.

Now definitely wasn't THAT far away, more like 100 feet as opposed to nearly 500, I was just trying to give an example of how much distance matters. But consider the fact that the average compound bow shoots arrows at 300 FPS, and the bows used in Arrow have nearly twice the draw weight of real-life, and we're looking at Oliver literally being MULTIPLE TIMES faster than Batman in terms of reaction speed, given his consistent ability to catch/block/duck/and even shoot these arrows out of the air, from point blank range.

I mean seriously, I don't understand how anyone can possibly think of Arkham Batman as even being within the same tier of speed as Green Arrow, if they know all the facts. Let's just break it down.

It's not as simple as just saying "Batman dodged a rocket and Green Arrow dodged an arrow." There are many relevant factors which paint Green Arrow's feats (feats: plural, compared to Batman's feat, singular) as being far more radically insane and impossible.

Batman Dodges a Missile:

Relevant factors:

• Distance of over 100 feet
• Shooter and projectile in clear sight with ample warning, Batman was fully preparedness
• Not an effortless dodge (had to throw his entire body on sheer reflex; in other words, not a deliberate move)
• Muzzle velocity somewhere around 475 FPS (don't know the exact weapon type Arkham Knight was using, but the M72 LAW is pretty comparable)

Conclusion: Possible in real life? Hell no. But on the level of a comic book peak human? Not quite.

Green Arrow Dodges an Arrow:

Relevant factors:

• Distance of no more than 20 feet
• Shooter and projectile fired behind Green Arrow's head with no warning while he was off guard
• Detected arrow in midflight through sheer senses/instincts and still reacted fast enough to dodge it just by effortlessly bobbing his head to the side; a deliberate and effortless motion to conserve energy, whereas Batman had to put his all into just barely avoiding the missiles.
• Arrow speed nearly 600 FPS (significantly greater than missile speed)

Dude, I don't understand how you could even possibly try to argue this when all the facts are right there. It's so objective; Green Arrow's reaction time is exponentially higher than Batman's.

What about actual physical speed? Well Batman literally has no feats in that regard, while Oliver has insane capabilities like catching up to a speeding motorcycle with a 13 second headstart on foot, and checking every office on every floor of a six-story apartment building before running across town by jumping buildings all in less than 3 minutes. CW Green Arrow is just one of the fastest peak humans in the comic book genre, instead of underestimating him all the time because he's live-action or you don't like the show or whatever, just admit this is the truth.

Conclusion: If Batman can only just barely avoid a missile by throwing his entire body out of the way, then even if he's able to do the same thing when Oliver fires an arrow, that's just going to put him into a position where he can't possibly dodge the next arrow. Logically Batman should be incapable of avoiding more than two arrows when his reaction time isn't sharp enough to effortlessly dodge a missile.

@nickzambuto: Where do you get that the arrow speed is 600 FPS?

People are basing this on the fact that it was stated Shado's bow has a draw weight of 150 ibs which is twice as much as a regular bow. All though this was debated in another thread so its a questionable estimation. Especially since Sahdo's bow was a long bow and not a recurve bow.....

@nickzambuto: Nick saying they're featless and the measuring stick is Batman I don't think is a good way to break it down. I could break down pretty much any character in Arrow sans maybe Deathstroke and Ra's as only capable of beating fodder better than someone else. Such as Slade's best feat (while not on Mirakuru) is beating Billy Wintergreen, whose best feat is beating Yao Fei, whose best feat is competing with Wintergreen, whose best feat is...see where this is going? If we break it down far enough, every charcates best feat is simply being better at beating fodder than another.

Ok I didn't knew from where he was taking this.

Shado used the same type of bow as her father. Oliver used Yao Fei's bow when fighting Malcolm, and we can see from their fight that Oliver's arrows were not moving any faster than Malcolm's. From there, we can assume that Malcolm's bow is the same used by all the League. Whenever Oliver has archery duels with someone (like Komodo), his arrows are never shown as any faster. So all bows in Arrow are the same.

Yao Fei's best feat is being a Chinese military killing machine who was imprisoned in Purgatory by his own country for being too much of a badass. He displays knowledge on many advanced fighting techniques and his knowledge is advanced enough to know a pressure point that completely stops somebody's pulse with a mere tap, only for him to revive them again as soon as he feels like it.

Very different from Arkham where the characters actually ARE featless.

So maybe...Oliver's bow just isn't 600 FPS? Like there are a lot more factors that contribute to the speed of a bow other than draw weight.

http://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/

You need to fill out all the info in this calculator to get an accurate estimate. Honestly my measurements put Olivers arrow speed between 500-533FPS.....And I was very generous with my calculations. Like I assumed the weight of his bow string was 0 grains and I also assumed the IBO was 400FPS (which from what I googled the fastest bow in the world only has an IBO of 360...).

And honestly even after all of that there is still a lot of guess work involved. So who knows how accurate either of our estimations actually are.

Arkham Batman is too much for any of them,he's just on another planet.

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto said:

Shado used the same type of bow as her father. Oliver used Yao Fei's bow when fighting Malcolm, and we can see from their fight that Oliver's arrows were not moving any faster than Malcolm's. From there, we can assume that Malcolm's bow is the same used by all the League. Whenever Oliver has archery duels with someone (like Komodo), his arrows are never shown as any faster. So all bows in Arrow are the same.

So maybe...Oliver's bow just isn't 600 FPS? Like there are a lot more factors that contribute to the speed of a bow other than draw weight.

http://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/

You need to fill out all the info in this calculator to get an accurate estimate. Honestly my measurements put Olivers arrow speed between 500-533FPS.....And I was very generous with my calculations. Like I assumed the weight of his bow string was 0 grains and I also assumed the IBO was 400FPS (which from what I googled the fastest bow in the world only has an IBO of 360...).

And honestly even after all of that there is still a lot of guess work involved. So who knows how accurate either of our estimations actually are.

The draw weight is by far the most important factor. Those other factors are all subtle. Around 500 FPS is a fine estimate, I always say that the arrows travel at "nearly 600 FPS" or "around 600 FPS", the point is that the bows in 'Arrow' are a LOT more powerful than real-life. There's the fact that when Oliver shot down The Mayor's RPG, even though The Mayor shot first and his grenade had already traveled a couple meters by the time Ollie was able to draw and fire an arrow, the two projectiles still met in the middle, implying that the arrow must have been traveling at least twice as fast.

Bats.

@nickzambuto: Snake Eyes is the best fighter on the planet, trained from his youth by the best ninja and martial artist organization on the planet, but you don't consider him an elite fighter because he is fighting "featless" opponents, therefore his feats are lessened.

The IBO is also pretty important to. If I go with the 360 IBO figure instead the speed of the arrows drops to 493 FPS:

I don't know if I would say 533 FPS is really close to 600 FPS either.

Knowing a pressure point that can completely stop a person's pulse is a feat. It gives context to Yao Fei's high training and experience, it puts him on a level, whereas Snake Eyes has no such context, we have no idea what level he's actually at. Real life people often train from youth, but so did Son Goku. That's quite a wide gap where Snake Eyes can fall anywhere, because he has no context, besides beating fodder, which is not impressive.

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto said:

The draw weight is by far the most important factor. Those other factors are all subtle. Around 500 FPS is a fine estimate, I always say that the arrows travel at "nearly 600 FPS" or "around 600 FPS", the point is that the bows in 'Arrow' are a LOT more powerful than real-life. There's the fact that when Oliver shot down The Mayor's RPG, even though The Mayor shot first and his grenade had already traveled a couple meters by the time Ollie was able to draw and fire an arrow, the two projectiles still met in the middle, implying that the arrow must have been traveling at least twice as fast.

The IBO is also pretty important to. If I go with the 360 IBO figure instead the speed of the arrows drops to 493 FPS:

I don't know if I would say 533 FPS is really close to 600 FPS either.

What is an IBO rating?

@nickzambuto: Its a testing system of rating the bow's speed under certain conditions:

First it is important to understand where a bow’s speed rating comes from and what it means. Most bows use the IBO (International Bowhunting Organization) specification. This calls for shooting a bow with an arrow that weighs 5 grains per pound of draw weight and is generally done with a bow set at 70 lbs draw weight and 30″ draw length with only a one nock set on the string. There is some wiggle room in the specs as well; the draw length is allowed to be +-3/4″ and the draw weight +-2 lbs. This means that the bow can actually be set at 30 3/4″ and 72 lbs shooting a 350 grain arrow.

Another specification that is gaining some popularity is the ATA (Archery Trade Association) spec. It is very similar, yet much more restrictive with very little leeway in the way the bow has to be setup. For ATA, the bow can be set to 50, 60 or 70 lbs of draw weight with only +-0.1 lb. variance and a draw length of 30″, +- 1/4″, also with only one nock set on the string. The arrow must be exactly 5 grains per pound of draw weight. Because it is a more restrictive spec, it gives an overall better view of what speeds a bow can really reach.

http://archeryreport.com/2011/03/estimate-bow-speed/

From my understanding its sort of a base calculation of how fast the bow shoots if that makes sense.

EDIT: If I'm being honest I don't fully get it. I'm mostly just googling this stuff now and plugging in number to the calculator based on what I google.

Batman catches their arrows and foddizes team in h2h combat

Also Pre new 52 Oliver should be embarrassed, his had a draw weight of 103lbs.

Batman.

One of the most important factors in this battle is speed and reflexes, and I get where Nick is coming from regarding Bruce's speed in comparison with Oliver's. Gameplay wise, dodging or reacting bullets is nearly impossible. Key word, nearly. During predator situations in Arkham Knight, if an enemy spotted you, you had the option to throw a very quick batarang at the enemy in order to knock them down a split second before they lit you up. Not to mention it's actually possible to dodge Serpent Drone fire if you press the dodge button fast enough. It's actually kinda fun.

The fear takedown ability that was introduced in Arkham Knight is a good demonstration of Batman's speed, and when fully upgraded, allows Batman to basically speedblitz a group of five armed enemies and fluidly avoid getting shot whilst doing so. There's also the Batman dodges rockets feat, which (ironically) I had the pleasure I seeing again today because I happened to be playing that part on New Game Plus (did anyone else know that Scarecrow can actually kill you if you decide not to attack him when Joker takes over for a sec?) A couple things I wanted to say about that feat:

Batman dodges Arkham Knight's missiles:

• Beforehand, Batman had no idea that the Arkham Knight was holding a missile launcher, and had even pulled out his grapnel gun in an attempt to pursue the Knight. A second later, Knight pulls out the missile launcher and fires it immediately (fortunately, Batman was able to avoid the missiles). I wouldn't say that Batman was fully "prepared" during that instance, given he had no idea that the Knight was carrying a missile launcher before he pulled out his grappling gun.

It's a simple and somewhat unimpressive enough speed feat (a decent feat for precision), but during the Professor Pyg boss fight, Batman catches several knives thrown at him and proceeds to throw them right back (with enough precision that he only hits Pyg with the handle of the knives). That aside, when it comes to whether or not Batman can catch Oliver's arrows, I'm just about certain he can (come on now, even Huntress caught an arrow that Oliver fired back in season 1, and she isn't nearly as impressive as anyone in this battle).

Next we have combat skill/martial arts, another thing that leads me to believe that Batman would win this. One of Batman's best portrayals of combat ability was during the Deathstroke boss fight in Arkham Origins (that video just shows Batman Arkham Videos going through the boss fight on New Game Plus, on hard difficulty, without being touched). We had feats of Batman going back and forth with Deathstroke and countering his attacks, you can bullet time/dodge during that battle (the video doesn't show it, but you can, trust me), it exhibited Batman's physical strength (he snapped Slade's staff in half with his knee and punched off his mask). And then there's the Initiation - Rite of Passage DLC from Arkham Origins, which shows Bruce (before he became Batman and refined his skills) fighting off and defeating a large array of trained ninjas (including Lady Shiva). And I'm gonna be pretty honest hear, the fodder ninjas that Arkham Bats faces are more impressive than the fodder league ninjas from Arrow (Diggle and Laurel of all people were able to best league ninjas in combat back in season 3).

When it comes to durability, Batman's been shot square on the chest before in the games, and because of armor plating in that area, hes perfectly fine afterwards (the force of the bullet knocks him down, but that's about it). In the game, the Arkham Knight even brought in his pistol at point blank range, jammed it right against a certain vulnerable point in Batman's armor, and fired. After injecting himself with something to stop his body from going into... I forgot what it's called, he proceeded to get up and clear out a whole room of militia and go back to business as usual. If anyone here got shot like that (possibly excluding Malcom with his league armor, which can tank bullets and sniper rounds), they wouldn't die, but they aren't gonna get right back up and start fighting again.

Batman with his intellect and gadgets is more resourceful than these three, and in combat/stealth situations (especially stealth), and one thing that none of them have a counter against (if he hits them with it) is the freeze grenade, which can actually be collected in Arkham Knight. If he hits either of those free with it, or if they are caught by a freeze proximity mine, whoever gets trapped in the ice is gonna get taken out real quick.

I could go into comparing who Batman and the others have fought, but typing all this up kinda drained me.

@nickzambuto: Always a pleasure reading your Arrow debates.

@nickzambuto: Snake Eyes has shown mastery of numerous weapons such as all types of guns, swords, knives, shurikens etc. And he was able to shoot all of Storm Shadow's shurikens out of the air with an uzzi without wasting a single bullet. And he both kept up with and defeated multiple times a character that can slice a bullet in half after it's fired. But he's only been in two movies so his quantity of feats is limited compared to someone like Oliver, but does that necessarily mean that he is automatically below the likes of Oliver and Merlyn. IMO, absolutely not.

I don't get any arguments of Batman being a bullet timer. I know the battle forums hates anything to do with gameplay, but the game stresses heavily that Batman absolutely requires stealth when facing off against guns, because he gets lit up if he faces even random goons with guns head on.

Sure, Batman found his way past the guards, but he NEEDED to use stealth. It wasn't like Batman said stealth was the safer option, he said he had NO other options. The direct approach was suicide, in his own words. Calling that suicide doesn't paint him as a bullet timer. This is one of dozens of scenarios from the series, and actually the very first one ever, which let us all know right from the get go, that he's not a bullet timer.

I don't see why people feel like every character in the battle forums needs to be a bullet timer. It doesn't make Batman any less of a character because he has less then superhuman reactions. It makes him cooler IMO. He's taking down tons of armed thugs, even though he isn't able to dodge their bullets. He uses stealth and tactics to take them down, and I think that's really cool. If he was able to go weave through their bullets like most fictional characters do, it would kind of cheapen the character and the experience that this awesome series of games offer.

@nickzambuto:

With Batman, he is consistently written by Rocksteady as being slow.

How do you figure? He got progressively faster as the series went on. And what makes him "slow"? If your comparing him to legitimate superhumans like CW Flash, then yeah he's a turtle. But compared to street levelers? Slow? No way.

That's why I was able to bring up TWO examples of him being unable to replicate with darts and tasers, what Oliver was able to do, with bullets

I hope your not suggesting Oliver could've dodged those bullets. It was pretty clear Bruce was trying to take the bullet for someone both times.

That is not lowballing, it's a good point.

By definition it's lowballing. Your offering examples that aren't indicative of his usual ability, that aren't even him trying to dodge anything in order to make him seem, in your own words "slow".

The problem here is that the scene you posted is literally Batman's ONLY speed feat throughout the entire quadrilogy

Really isn't. He's Blitzed entire rooms of guards (post Arkham City suit), reacted to trained militia while flying through doors and managed to disarm Hush before he could kill either Lucius or himself. I haven't read the novelization but I'm relatively sure he'll have some more there. He has plenty of speed feats. Not as many as Oliver, a superhero with a weekly show, but that doesn't make him "Slow".

And even taking the missile dodge at face-value, you're acting like the scene is some great, be-all, end-all speed feat that should completely shut down any hope of defending Arrow,

It should be the be-all, end-all feat to any attempt to pretend the character is a slow combatant.

300 FPS, and the bows used in Arrow have nearly twice the draw weight of real-life,

I know this is debatable given the reasoning behind this view, but even if every single bow in arrow (Yes, all of them) were double the draw weight of real life, with every single Arrow moving at twice the speed of normal arrows, they wouldn't be that much faster than the missiles.

• Shooter and projectile in clear sight with ample warning, Batman was fully preparedness

I disagree. You have Batman preparing to bat-claw onto the helicopter, before the Arkham Knight emerges and fires within moments. Considering he didn't even know the knight was there i don't think its fair to say he was fully prepared.

• Not an effortless dodge (had to throw his entire body on sheer reflex; in other words, not a deliberate move)

In the time that the missiles launched to the time they reached him he moved his body several meters. Not sure how Oliver moving his head slightly trumps a large dodge. Again consider the fact that the Missiles have unusual flight paths (curved vs straight flying arrows) and that Bruce anticipated and rolled away from them.

Dude, I don't understand how you could even possibly try to argue this when all the facts are right there. It's so objective; Green Arrow's reaction time is exponentially higher than Batman's.

Because it really isn't. Exponentially higher? Looking at the feat you provided vs mine, exponentially? Even assuming that all bows in arrow are double the average draw weight (Mmm) 600fps vs 475fps. Exponentially? The missiles are at worst 80% of the speed of the arrow. If the bow is regular, then they are faster.

What about actual physical speed?

I wasn't even talking about this and its not indicative of reaction times.

Oliver has insane capabilities like catching up to a speeding motorcycle with a 13 second headstart on foot

Really. I know you realize this feat isn't at all as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. Failing to catch a bike in an inner city district even when the bike had to make a turn due to conveniently placed roadworks? CW Arrow is not faster than a motorbike.

checking every office on every floor of a six-story apartment building before running across town by jumping buildings all in less than 3 minutes

Not familiar with the scene but I'll take your word for it.

CW Green Arrow is just one of the fastest peak humans in the comic book genre, instead of underestimating him all the time because he's live-action or you don't like the show or whatever, just admit this is the truth.

This comment isn't exactly a high-point for your debating. I like the show. I watch the show. I have much more to do with live-action than actual physical comics. I strongly disagree with the extremely unrealistic level you put arrow characters at. If they get matched up against comic characters (I.e Batman) with half-centuries of experience and thousands of comic showings, and you think they stomp? You're entitled to your views, but please don't imply I dislike it (or that my view on the show effects my ability to debate it) just because I disagree with you.