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#51 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

You know it was the electricity that burnt them cause when they fall their bodies are sparkling with electricity. My point is that how can you compare them in terms of durability if they can be killed by lightning and harmed by flames and Ares can't? I already told you that his durability is a 6 (which is the same as Iron Man and WonderMan, both of which are bulletproof) in the Marvel handbook which is the rank above bullet proof. If he wasn't bulletproof they would have put him in 4.

That is the ONLY example of Ares getting pierced by bullets. Spider-Man has clearly an undeniably been tagged by people slower than him many times, Midnighter has clearly and undeniably had his ass kicked plenty of times despite his machine that tell him everything. Superman has been tagged by people much slower than him before now clearly and undeniably. BP has had his suit torn plenty of times in stories. Just because it happens once doesn't mean that it is how it should happen. Especially when the handbook has him at above a bulletproof level of durability. If Hercules could be damaged sufficiently by normal bullets don't you think Pluto or especially Ares would have shot him to death a long time ago?

Also in Mighty Avengers when the symbiotes attack they only go for the heroes that aren't bulletproof to absorb. All the heroes with class 5 durability or higher are left un-absorbed. If his skin was always able to get shot through then how was it able to keep symbiotes out that seep through the pores in the skin?

I'd say the blunt force trauma does matter because if Thor's physical attacks don't kill him Midnighter's definately won't.  Regis was killed by Jack jumping through the ground powered by the cities pain it looked like. Would you say that was on par with a god blast? I wouldn't. Also the White House wasn't completely destroyed in the blast, it was only the middle section. I'd say that one or two missiles would easily cause the same amount of damage at the end of the fight Ares gets hit by at least 4 and isn't dead as a result. Also if Midnighter could have dodged Regis' hits then why didn't he? If it was a case of manuevering him he could have accomplished this by dodging and luring him into the right place. I didn't see anywhere that suggested Regis has super speed. Anyways Marvel god's bone and tissue are 3 times denser than a normal persons plus Ares is almost 7 ft tall made of pure muscle. I'd like to see how shurikens or a staff can cut through that.

If you had the capability to make a super high number of soldiers that are superhuman why would he make some are and some aren't? Especially when it comes to you defending your important assets. Didn't look like Midnighter was having fun to me, he even says "oh hell". He looked suprised that he couldn't one shot the guy (surely he shouldn't be seeing as his enhancements tell him everything, again if he didn't know how hard to hit this guy he may not know how hard to hit Ares).

They are a demon army, powered by an evil god, how can their weapons not be magical? They didn't all come to Earth, pick up samurai swords then head back to fight did they. Achillies even says that Mikaboshi has "more magic than skill". Seeing as it is Mikaboshi powering the army and when he is defeated the army vanish, it is safe to say that they are magical in nature. Which means there still isn't an example of his flesh being cut by a non magical weapon.

I told you an example of Hercules getting shot by SHIELD soldiers and not having any wounds. Seeing as they have the same physiology surely that is an indicator? (scans aren't working right now i'll post later).



#52 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay whats the obsession with fire man? I showed the scan of Ares getting electrocuted to show that the Super Asians you were mentioning as being so tough werent by comparison as he had taken many bolts of lightning whilst the Super Asians became charred burning corpses [issue 5] as Ace High had said. Jenny Sparks isnt a god so i dont see her electricity being anything other than normal.

I dont remember saying the corridor was so narrow Midnighter couldnt move or mention a turret. Its a corridor lessening the choice of movement, so anything coming down it has to be faced. You keep saying he can dodge all the bullets and that he has 'fun' ad allows himself to be hit. Because that doesnt sound silly at all does it? If he is as good at blocking everything then all he has to do is evade to prolong a fight, rather than, as you suggest, let people put holes in him and get the drop on him with viruses and the like. Him saying to Assassinate that he has fun with his fights after he had his ass handed to him sounded like he was boosting his ego and protecting his rep. He was beat. [I think Assasinate should change his name cause he missed his chance to take the guy out]. So Midnighter comes up with a way to win and mutilates the guy, he sounds bitter at having lost. He has been hit so many times, fallen into traps and actually been killed twice [that i can think of] and these are enough to put the doubt in my mind that he cant just dodge, block or escape everything that comes his way. You have said before he has anger issues and that can cloud his mind, most fighters use anger in combat so maybe it slightly screws with his recollection. Midnighter being hit is not a betrayal of his powers at all; some things are just too powerful, numerous, fast or destructive for him to handle.

I did say they POSSIBLY had powers like Cannonball, the glow they had was reminiscent of Cannonballs, they never gave specs so it could be anything. Apollo's little halo is different in appearance so no i dont recon he has a feild like they may have. As they do seem to have a glow around them. Also i dont know what comics you read if you think Thor wouldnt hit Ares with as much force as a Super Asian hitting the ground. There is no love lost between them and they are immortals.

Ares seems to wear that armour in Mighty Avengers and they dont go up against Herc all the time AND did you not notcie the bit where i said it could be an enchantment or an elixer that gives him his power? I havent seen it said that the armour gives him the power so dont make out like i have to state he has it to make him that resistant when we dont know thats what makes him that tough; HE JUST IS. In fact what you said about his armour not covering his arms [and when he was hit his head wasnt covered] chould ellude to the newfound invulnerability possibly being from another source as his arms and head would have been fragged. I did suggest he could have a Wonder Woman style weakness to projectiles. However if this were so the missile [which is afterall a giant exploding projectile with a penetrating head] would have smooshed through him then blew up on Herc or the hellicarrier. So i dont think he has that vulnerability. Furthermore his durabilityi is a 6 SUPERHUMAN in the Marvel ratings [thats Iron Man, Wonder Man class right?]....5 is BULLET PROOF. So yeah.
SCANS: Which do you think is more powerful bullets [which Midnighter isnt using] Shurikens or a freaking MISSILE exploding in ya face?!?!?!?

Stark could indeed have been flattering Ares. But i would think that the lord of war would merit such precautions. He isnt a fluffy bunny. The guy is seriously dangerous. He has hurt Wonderman, Heracles and was the only one with the plan to kill Ultron despite all opf those smarty pants with so many resources being around; not to mention he single handedly raped Pluto's army. I like to think Stark would need at least some of those heavy hitters to take him down. Iron Man surely knows Ares background capabilities and more than likely has scanned the guy from head to toe. Im pretty sure if he had determined a few shuriken or bullets would take him out he would have said 'yeah ill get Bullseye, Skrullektra and Hawkeye on you, i can make you my biatch with a 9 milly'. 

Dude im still not bitter. Its not like you were saying MC loses to Jubilee. I have no problem with one of my favourite characters losing to another of my favourite characters, if indeed i think he should lose. So i dont know what 'frontin' i need to be stoppin blud. TWO-TWO'S BLAD; TWO-TWO'S!

#53 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio

@ace: I’m ignoring the electricity/fire thing because it’s stupid, not related, and I’ve already talked about it anyway.

The handbook gives a number that corresponds to something above bulletproof. Might that not be because bullets can’t kill him? It’s usually used that way, but it makes sense to me. If bullets can’t kill him, he might as well be bulletproof. I think it might mean that because the text right above the grid directly contradicts it. Look at what Gambler posted (this comes from the handbook), “He can be wounded in battle, but his godly life force gives him incredible recuperative abilities. He can fully recover from penetration wounds (such as by knife, sword, or bullet) in anywhere from minutes to hours, depending on their severity.” It (the handbook) says he can be wounded and the examples are, guess what, supported by comics. It also tells how fast he can heal from this damage. If he couldn’t be hurt by bullets, he wouldn’t need to heal from them and wouldn’t need such detail going into how fast he can do so. There’s also the possibility that the grid is just wrong. I was trying to reconcile the two sources (text and grid) but it could just be that the grid is wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. Whichever idea (in regards to the grid) works better for you is fine, but the point is, the comics clearly show he can be shot by bullets and the handbook you insist on even backs it up.

It may be the only example, but is it directly contradicted by another example? All you have to do is show me that. Spider-Man gets hit sometimes but there are plenty of examples where he avoids pretty much the same thing. Midnighter gets hit sometimes but there are examples of him avoiding almost the same attacks. Superman gets tagged by those slower than him on occasion, but he’s also shown that he has the speed to avoid those hits when the writing permits. Black Panther’s suit has been torn, but it’s also been clearly shown to absorb momentum and it’s been explicitly stated numerous times how vibranium works. All the negatives you pointed out have been directly contradicted numerous times so you can tell when it’s really a negative or just bad writing/PIS. Ares gets shot, but I haven’t seen anything in comics that contradicts that, so until I do, Ares really can get shot.

Symbiotes aren’t bullets. All I’m asking for is an example of bullet bouncing off his skin.

Stop changing it to blunt force attacks because you can’t disprove that Ares can be shot. I know that some characters have high durability against explosions and blunt force attacks and crap durability against small projectiles. It’s not a low showing for durability or anything, just a different kind. That’s why I’m talking about the kind Midnighter has a chance at exploiting.

Just because they’re gods doesn’t mean all their weapons are magic. Was every spear that Achilles threw imbued with magic? Every weapon Ares has is not magic. Mikaboshi may have been powering the demons, but did he make their swords out of magic?

Show me some bullets bouncing off Ares. Do that and we can be done with this.

@mark: “A confined space with only two directions to go, back and forth”. That’s what you said. I was comparing Ares to a turret since all you have him doing is shooting hundreds of bullets. Do you see what I’m saying? Hey, Midnighter is a twisted guy, I’m not going to judge how he has fun, I’m just going off what he says. He said he has fun after the fight where he won, he didn’t need an ego boost when his opponent was lying on the ground with his spine broken in half. Think clearly, with no bias, if you can see every move your opponent is planning on making long before they make it, should you be hit by thrown punches? If the answer to that is “no”, then there must be some reason (I’m trying to keep writing for entertainment, the most obvious reason, out of it) Midnighter gets hit a lot. The reason he gave is because he likes the violence. He mutilated the guy because the man had tried to kill his daughter. Think beyond the immediate fight and look at the story that was going on. He wanted to punish the guy as well as get information on who was behind the hit, and that’s how he did it. I said that in one instance (Apollo, at that point in time the only person in the world he loved) being punched across the world might have set him off. Normal crap doesn’t bother him like that.

You said it was a possibility, sure, and I said I didn’t accept that possibility since there was no proof. All you have is some light around them (maybe cause they’re going fast?) that Apollo also has when he flies. Check when he smashes into the Earth, he’s got the same glow. Look at when he chases the one guy back to Gamorra, they have the same glow and trail. And in any case, it doesn’t matter. Same with the rest of the blunt force attack stuff you’re mentioning.

Chill with the anger guy. Just prove that what happened in the comic and what the handbook backs up is wrong and that Ares can’t be shot.

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#54 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

As far as i can see Ares has only been shot at that one time, and a lot of the damage he has faced since then has been of magnitudes in excess of what he was shot with, with no injuries or death. I cant even find an instance where a normal dude has just used a normal bladed weapon to slice him, when he got cut in his Mini it was with Mikobishi's sword.

Regardless of any fun or whatever. It doesnt matter that he knows whats happening if he cant adjust in time. Thats all it is. What if he is doing something and cant carry the momentum over or is in mid move or whatever reason. It is not unreasonable for him to get hit at all. In real life many people will have accidents that they can see happening. Heck even in something like a computer game you can see crap thats gonna happen but are in no position to prevent it. He has gotten distracted, he cant dodge everything at once, he has walked into traps, people on his level can get lucky. Him getting hit is no mistake. He still has to act on the information his battle computer gives him. Its not like it just takes over and moves him around in a set pattern he cant deviate from if it did he wouldnt get distracted or anything like that.

A missile has a pointed head and is flying in at great speeds, its big yes and explodes but at the point of impact, against something 'soft' it would penetrate like a giant bullet. It didnt penetrate, he was dense enough to cause it to explode on impact. Blunt force trauma is still a good determinate as to his invulnerability, if the blunt force is significant enough it would push through his flesh too, like when he pushed his staffs trough Mikobishi's peoples heads. I mean if a bullet from a handgun is just as effective as a missile against a tank why waste time with fighter bombers and the like? Doesnt seem to make sense to compare the two.

He did go up against a load of spiky sharp things when he went into Ultrons body, they also electrocuted him [lol] and he was fine.

Well as for the grid; if his power was just regenerative, like Deadpool or Wolverine his level would have been 4, thats regenerative. I dont see why he would then be put in a level above bulletproof. You see he WAS wounded by bullets [an event that so far is isolated, not doubting that it did happen but with the amount of force this guy has had exacted against him since it would suggest he is bulletproof] and events had occured after that event which will have given him a rating of 6 even in that mini; like being set on fire [lol] being electrocuted [lol and dont say it isnt a measure of durability] landing after being hurled by the Prince of Power with no real harmfull effects that needed healing [the missile thing hadnt happened by the time of the rating im looking at].

I dont get where the anger is coming from. Its not me. TWO- TWO'S BLUD TWO-TWO'S!!

#55 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:

Show me some bullets bouncing off Ares. Do that and we can be done with this.


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#56 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even know why we need to defend this. Midnighter doesn't even have a gun. He deflects some bullets back at Ares and pisses him off. Ares isn't a retard. If bullets ain't gonna work on Midnighter and he is supposedly affected by them he isn't gonna hand his enemy the keys to kill him. He smashes his gun so that Midnighter doesn't use it. There, now there are no guns in play. Now whats Midnighter gonna do? The blades of Mikaboshi's warriors were magical cause they vanished when the soldiers did after Mikaboshi was defeated. If they weren't  magical, they would have dropped to the floor after he was beaten. He can't hurt Ares by punching him and you have no proof that he can be hurt by bladed weapons that aren't magical. Ares then grabs Midnighter and rips him in half. The End.

#57 Edited by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
caption

#58 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Well...yeah.

#59 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio
Ace High said:
you have no proof that he can be hurt by bladed weapons that aren't magical. Ares then grabs Midnighter and rips him in half. The End.
Except that the handbook you brought up says he can be cut by blades and Midnighter carries quite a few. He can also shoot his teeth like bullets.
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#60 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Just showing that it says he can recover from penetration wounds such as blades and bullets, in anywhere from minutes to hours. So apparently he can be hurt by normal blades and bullets.

#61 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Well show me an example of him getting cut by a blade that isn't magical then. Also Logic didn't say Midnighter has any blades in this fight, the post clearly states staff and shurikens. So you can forget that. Bullets and teeth have two compeltely different properties. Never seen anyone shoot teeth at him. So you can show me an example of that as well if you can. Like he showed 4 is regenerative and 6 is superhuman. If you so keep by going by the handbook then him getting shot is either a) bad writing or b) he isn't more resistant to damage than Wolverine. Hmmm...

#62 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

No blades man. What are you talking about? I did this out of bitterness remember why would i give Midnighter blades? Also why would i give him teeth? this is a bitterness thread man. OH and where is Ares being hit by said teeth Midnighter doesnt have because i didnt say he did?

LOL

#63 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
Ace High said:
"Well show me an example of him getting cut by a blade that isn't magical then. Also Logic didn't say Midnighter has any blades in this fight, the post clearly states staff and shurikens. So you can forget that. Bullets and teeth have two compeltely different properties. Never seen anyone shoot teeth at him. So you can show me an example of that as well if you can. Like he showed 4 is regenerative and 6 is superhuman. If you so keep by going by the handbook then him getting shot is either a) bad writing or b) he isn't more resistant to damage than Wolverine. Hmmm...
"
Shurikens are a bladed weapon. So lets not forget that.

LMAO, anytime you disagree with something its bad writing. That cracks me up.

#64 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Jokes aside, Ace brought up a good point, taking bullets out of the equation, apart from Shurikens which you think will penetrate [dunno what good they would do really the guy was thinking and got up straight away after having his brain shot] what will Midnighter do? Since we have established he can take 'blunt force trauma' really well. Is Midnighter punching harder than a missile? Or harder than Thor/Heracles?

#65 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio

It doesn't say they have to be magical, and since normal bullets worked, I don't see why blades used in the same context would have to be magical. Midnighter always has blades. Even if you take away the ones he always has in his coat, his still has plenty of shuriken. You're going off the grid when a) the grids have been wrong before and are in this case since the comics and the text in the bio directly contradict it and b) I went out of my way to show how the grids and text could be right. The text of the handbook lines up with comics and you've shown nothing in comics to disprove that. So Ares can be hurt by bullets and blades, and Midnighter has blades.

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#66 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah cause the God of War getting damaged by bullets makes total sense. Please, if it was that easy to kill him he would have been dead a long time ago. The handbook says he is above bulletproof levels of durability. Below that is a 4 which is what Wolverine is. You think Wolverine and Ares are as durable as each other yeah? I included shurikens in the list of things that wouldn't hurt Ares if it was magical.

#67 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Again the bullets to the head thing happened before the missiles to the face thing. Its not impossible that he has advanced then. If Superman gets a power boost it has to be accepted until it decreases or gets stronger, regardless of what happened a few years or months ago. So using the grade 6 and his being unaffected by great trauma in conjunction with the fact that we havent seen him being cut or shot since means he is that invulnerable as of now and for now.

#68 Edited by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay show me Ares getting hurt by shuriken then. Seeing as he doesn't have his swords, which has been said many times. But i'll concede he can be cut with them, if you can show me an example of him being cut by one that isn't magical. Just because it doesn't explicitly say it in the Handbook, all the evidence given so far would suggest this. Plus in all this time Ares is gonna stand there and let himself be cut? He can catch a speeding missile out of mid air. Why wouldn't he be able to catch Midnighter? Plus Logic is right. The handbook was written after he joined Mighty Avengers. If he hasn't been cut or shot since then its safe to say that he has been upgraded since that point.

#69 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
Ace High said:
"Yeah cause the God of War getting damaged by bullets makes total sense. Please, if it was that easy to kill him he would have been dead a long time ago. The handbook says he is above bulletproof levels of durability. Below that is a 4 which is what Wolverine is. You think Wolverine and Ares are as durable as each other yeah? I included shurikens in the list of things that wouldn't hurt Ares if it was magical.
"
Well it is a comicbook character so we're already dealing with unbelievable and non realistic  situations to begin with. I don't know much about Ares but it plainly states that he can heal from bullets and blades in anywhere from minutes to hours. Well to heal from something you'd have to be hurt by it right? I mean that makes sense to me. I never said anything about killing Ares or for that matter being able to kill him. Isn't he immortal? So killing him isnt really an option. But you don't need to kill someone to defeat them. I don't remember reading where this fight was to the death, but I could have missed it.

You may have added Shurikens to your list of things that wouldn't hurt Ares but that doesn't make it right. Again, I'm not saying they would kill him and maybe he could or would heal from them in a matter of minutes. But they could still be used to penetrate his skin.
#70 Edited by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio

A God of War getting shot by bullets and not dying makes perfect sense, which is what the comic showed. You keep acting as if just because something damages him it will kill him. The bullets won't kill him so your whole "if it was that easy to kill him he would have been dead a long time ago" theory falls flat. The bullets don't kill him, but they do physical damage. The handbook says he can sustain damage from bullets and blades and comics back that up. Accept it. Ares has Wonder Woman-like durability. That's all it is. As for him and Wolverine, they actually do seem about as durable as each other if you get into it. They both get shot, the bullets don't kill them, and then they heal. They've both fought while set on fire. They've both lived through being electrocuted. They've both gotten hit by missiles and kept fighting. They've both taken blows from heavy hitters and didn't back down. Etc, etc. They are pretty similar durability wise.

You can't just make Ares invulnerable because you want him to be. You're saying he's bulletproof, just show him taking bullets and them bouncing off him.

Again with the "he's just going to stand there" bit. Midnighter can throw where he knows Ares will be instead of where he is, so when he stops "standing there" and starts moving, the blades will be where he'll end up. And like I said before, if he thinks like you two that he's invulnerable, maybe he will just stand there and take the hits. And the reason he can catch a missile and maybe not Midnighter is because a missile doesn't change direction if it sees someone with their hands outstretched and a missile can't predict your movements and avoid them.

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#71 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

And penetrating his skin is doing what? Bear in mind the guy was still cojent with a whole in the head where even people like Wolverine would have been brain dead.

#72 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

But there has been no example of shurikens hurting him. A thrown shuriken moves significaltly slower than a bullet. If having his throat cut by a god killing sword wielded by someone on almost equal power to him didn't even hurt him, nor did it hamper his ability to fight. All it did was piss him off. How is a shuriken thrown by a guy with slightly above average strength gonna be able to penetrate his skin? Plus like I have said Ares can catch missile out of the air, I would guess they move signifcantly faster than shuriken. Whats to say he couldn't catch them all before they hurt him?

#73 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot comicS dont back up that he can be hurt by bullets  A COMIC does. One that occurs before a possible boost in power that makes him able to take missiles to the face. It just seems to me that if he is taking force as destructive as a missile and being classed as a 6 then he must be bullet resistant. They had the option to make the bullets thing fit in nicely. Class 4 is straight up called regenrative

#74 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"And penetrating his skin is doing what? Bear in mind the guy was still cojent with a whole in the head where even people like Wolverine would have been brain dead."
Depends on where he's hit. Something that severs a tendon or a muscle, even if he heals from it in a minute is still a minute Midnight has to take advantage.
#75 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"And penetrating his skin is doing what? Bear in mind the guy was still cojent with a whole in the head where even people like Wolverine would have been brain dead."
When did he have a hole in his head? I must have missed it. I saw blood on his head when he was shot, but no hole, and there was no bullet hitting him in the head prior to that. But anyway, holes in his body can be expanded until pieces are separated. It might even be easier with a shuriken since it's wider than a bullet and can holes from one side of a limb to the other easier.
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#76 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

The point was missile move at mach speeds. Last time I checked Midnighter wasn't a speedster and has been clocked many times by people moving faster than him.

#77 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Its at the start of the series the guy says BUT I SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD. Saying all of this there has been no limit to show what will actually keep Ares down. Still haven't shown a non magical blade cut him, so until you do all the blades and tendons crap doesn't  mean anything. The handbook says "blades" but there has been no showings of him actually being cut by one outside the realm of the gods.

#78 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont think shuriken would do anything, but even if they did you think they will do that much damage to him? That they will penetrate that far? Or even harm him long enough to do something. He got his throat slashed and was fine with it in a few panels. The police man says he shot him in the head and blood was pouring out of his ears and nose.

#79 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"

I dont think shuriken would do anything, but even if they did you think they will do that much damage to him? That they will penetrate that far? Or even harm him long enough to do something. He got his throat slashed and was fine with it in a few panels. The police man says he shot him in the head and blood was pouring out of his ears and nose.

"
Midnighter has already played the fight out so its not like he's gonna waste a throw or perform an offensive move that he's already seen wont work. Also , how vulnerable are Ares' eyes? Is that something that could be exploited?




#80 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Well he is wearing his helmet. Not seen any examples of him getting shot in the eyes. But he was completely on fire and could still see where he was going/what he was doing so they are probably protected by some force.

#81 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
Ace High said:
"Well he is wearing his helmet. Not seen any examples of him getting shot in the eyes. But he was completely on fire and could still see where he was going/what he was doing so they are probably protected by some force.
"
Thats actually a different type of durability. Wonder Woman can withstand extreme heat (like being dipped in a molten pot) yet still has to deflect bullets with her bracelets. So him being on fire and catching a shurikan in the eye would be two different things.
#82 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio

Midnighter's taken a speedster (with his own powers off), so he's got the reflexes. And when he has his powers working he can see the attack coming so it makes it even more likely that he'll dodge it. And did something say how fast the missile was coming? Many bullets move faster than sound and Midnighter dodges those easily.

I looked and there's no bullet wound in his head and no bullet going in his head (they show all the other bullets). Maybe he only grazed his head (that could account for blood) or in all the action he thought he did something he didn't. Doesn't mean anything though unless Ares can use a limb that's not connected to his body. Even if it did go into his head, that just means that bullets can easily plow through bone (which I already suspected). The handbook says that bullets and blades (not mention of magic for either) can do damage and normal bullets and blades (that I've seen no proof of being imbued with magical cutting power) have done physical damage. I'm not making any leaps of logic here.

Logic Mark III said:

I dont think shuriken would do anything, but even if they did you think they will do that much damage to him? That they will penetrate that far? Or even harm him long enough to do something. He got his throat slashed and was fine with it in a few panels. The police man says he shot him in the head and blood was pouring out of his ears and nose.
He can spit through concrete. That should be enough to get through Ares. He can deliver enough force with his hand to damage a bulletproof body. If something's in the hand, I think he can throw it well enough to get it through something that can't handle a bullet.
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#83 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

You don't see it cause it doesn't help your arguement. How can a blade wielded by a zombie provided for and brought to life by a god not be magic? Thats like saying Mjolnir isn't magic. He even says the grass cutter is imbued with great power. Midnighter's shurikens are not imbued with great power. Where in the handbook does it say that TEETH can hurt him? Before you argue "penetration wounds" it doesn't say TEETH nor has he ever been hurt by them. As for the eye thing if they weren't damaged at degrees that would melt them why would a shuriken make a difference? You keep saying that Midnighter can chop off his arms. Firstly he doesn't have blades and secondly show me when Ares has ever lost a limb in a fight against anyone. I think he could catch the shurikens out of the air anyways if he can catch missiles. As for the bullet in the head it could have bounced off his skull. It still woulda gone through his head but not enough to break the bone. I have never seen Ares bones break either for that matter. Like I keep saying. If Hercules can't make him bleed then how can Midnighter with just his punches?

#84 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Well thats just it you and Gambler[?] are the only ones believeing a shuriken will get through him, and me and Ace arent, so the simple answer from this side is no, its not going to work, making the shuriken redundant. His fists will be equally as redundant.

When did he take out the speedster without his powers? I remember the Yellow one, but i swear the telepath released his hold on his brain, if he didnt his clone would have beaten him.

The green speedster he killed with his leg. I remember it being said that his healing was going/gone nothing about his battle computer, he did seem to realise he was going to be asulted by the speedster but he wasnt fast enough to do anything at the time.

This has been really quite good eh? I will have to continue tommorow though its late over here, so goodnight fellas.

#85 Posted by Buckshot (18685 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see it because it wasn't said. There were plenty of demons, and cuts on Ares before he fought his son. Where was it said that the demons/zombies/whatever all had weapons specially made to cut gods? The handbook said nothing about the blades or bullets needing to be magical. Point out to me where it said they had to be magical and I'll drop it. If you can't see how the tooth is virtually a bullet, then that's fine. It's no different from what Bullseye does and if you were open minded I think you'd see the similarity between the tooth and the bullet. That's ok though. And back to the fire AGAIN! That's not the type of damage being discussed. Some characters (the best example is Wonder Woman so I'll continue to use her) are more durable against certain types of damage and vulnerable to others, like piercing damage. Accept that Ares is one of those characters. Now this one I just don't understand. The shuriken are blades. Figure that out because I can't make it clearer. I don't have to show you him losing limbs. Even if you assume that none of the bullets hit bone, they still went through whatever vest he was wearing, his body, and his shield. Assuming Midnighter can't just put a shuriken through Ares' bone (though he's shown that he can throw a shuriken hard enough to cut through both leg bones of superhuman in one shot) he could do enough damage to the area so he can smash through an exposed joint or chipped bone with a well placed staff blow. (He's effortlessly crushed skulls and severed spines with his staff.) And why do you keep going back to punches and stuff when I'm not talking about that?

Neither Midnighter nor King said anything about Midnighter having his powers returned (though they specifically mentioned when King undid what he had done to Jenny and The Doctor). Also, the speed at which he was going through scenarios (he had time enough to do like three) suggests that it wasn't the instantaneous way his computer does them and was more like what he was doing when he was fighting Hellstrike without his enhancements. Just because he was able to fight his copy doesn't mean he had his computer working. He had his physical enhancements so he was still fast enough to avoid hits.

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#86 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm I'm not opened minded for thinking that a tooth won't hurt a god and yet your open minded even though you don't think that a fight taking place in the heart of Olympus/Japanese god heaven isn't magical. Bullseye can do it because he is Bullseye, that his schtick. Midnighter isn't Bullseye. I actually don't see any cuts on Ares' before he fights his son. I'd like to see some scans if you could of him being cut beforehand. The first one he recieves is from the grass cutter sword. So I don't even know why we are arguing the magical consistancy of zombie swords when he hasn't even be cut by them. So yeah I still don't think a non magical blade will be able to cut him.

Even if he does manage to perforate Ares, show me where penetration or blade damage has him wounded for more than a panel. They are actually healed before he even gets up. He has no wounds when he shoots off the policeman's fingers nor does he in the subsequent pages. What could that have been? 5-10 seconds max? For him to get up? So while Midnighter is far enough to away to (maybe) pierce his skin, by the time he gets there the wounds will be healed. . He doesn't have an infinite supply of the shurikens so eventually he has to go in close. By the time he gets to Ares he is completely healed. Whats he gonna do then?

This is all speculating that he isn't fast enough to dodge them anyways. The only reason he was shot was because he didn't see them coming, if his reaction speeds are fast enough to catch missiles then I don't see why they wouldn't be fast enough to dodge/catch shurikens that are moving in a straight line at a fraction of the speed. Midnighter isn't faster than a missile, if he is jumping Ares could easily catch him out of the air and rip him in half.

Your saying your not talking about punches then your talking about how Midnighter can crush a skull with his staff? Or smash his bones? How can his bone even be chipped by a shuriken, if they aren't damaged at all by Mjolnir. His bones are 3 times denser than a normal humans, covered by mystical god flesh. The fact they are strong enough to take these super human blows would suggest that they can't be chipped/damaged by an above average strength guy. Even if he uses his staff he still has to pull the bones apart, which would require more strength then Midnighter has if Hercules can't do it.

I also don't think that Midnighter' computer will even work against him. Seems to have trouble with things are aren't humanistic in design (i.e. people from Earth with powers). Doesn't seem to work very well against sentiant robots (Danny Chan), pan dimensional beings (regis) or Kev's gun (magic). Whats saying that it would work on a god?  Has he ever fought hand to hand with a god before? How is the computer gonna calculate the moves of someone not from this plane of existance?

#87 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

He's seen the fight a million different ways. Like I said he's not going to waste moves, punches, kicks, shurikans, etc etc.. cause he already knows whats going to work and whats not.

Mjolnir? Thats blunt force trauma vs penetration. Two completely  different types of damage. Thats pretty  basic right there so  your argument about Thor's hammer not chipping bone there for a shurikan couldn't doesn't hold any water.  The Hulk can take shots from Mjolnir and not get cut yet Wolverine can slice his skin at will.

Ares moves are as basic as they come. He's a brawler so Midnighters computer would easily be able to cycle through different scenarios.

#88 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares is a 7 on the handbook and every bio has him as mastering every fighting style in history? How in the heck are his moves basic? He even completely disects his son in the mini series, commentating whilst he was doing it on how his moves are predictable and how it will take more than speed and strength to win (also commenting on miss step after miss step). Doesn't sound very brawler like to me. Plus you ever seen Wolverine cut through the Hulk's arms? Plus thats adamantium, not generic steel shurikens. Ares son uses unorthodox styles when he is fighting and Ares just catches him out of the air, continually dodging his attacks and the only reason he doesn't kill him is because its his son. He was also able to see where the moves were coming from and dodged them effectively. Whats Midnighter got that makes him faster, stronger or know more fighting styles than Ares' son who has been magically trained to be more powerful than his dad and he still loses. Does Midnighter's computer work against gods? It barely worked against a copy of himself, so hows it gonna work against someone who outclasses him in every aspect apart from maybe running speed. Why wouldn't Ares be able to catch the shurikens out of the air? Or dodge them completely?

#89 Posted by TGC Gambler (41 posts) - - Show Bio

According to Marvel.com it only says he's mastered a variety of hand to hand skills. And in 90% of his fights all he does is brawl. Its not like he's a technical fighter.

#90 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

So your going from a wiki and not the official handbook? What about the example I just gave you of him fighting his son? He is the god of war. If bullets and stuff COULD put him down for the count would he not have been killed years ago if he just ran in head first? Against Hercules he makes the Hydra bullets, and against Ultron he was the one that figured out the strategy to win instead of just brawling and achieving nothing.

#91 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright. I think you are getting humg up on this bullet proof stuff. Bullet proof isnt the limit of Ares durability, if you want a more accurate term he is Mjolnir proof [The mountain crushing Celestial rocking Mjolnir]. The Wonder Woman hypothesis is a good one, but remember that its a hypothesis. She is DC he is Marvel, she is an Avatar of gods he is a god; what applies to her doesnt to him neccesarily. Afterall that would be a pretty big clause in the way his powers work for no bio to have ever said that he was vulnerable explicitly to small projectiles but could eat blunt force trauma like candy. The amount of damage Ares can take suggests he is way more invulnerable NOW than he WAS before. Looking at it in terms of severity of damage i.e missiles causing no harm, it seems ridiculous that bullets will harm him. Anyway i believ i have two examples that will help prove his resistance to lacerations. When he went into Ultron, spiky sharp thing swarmed and electrocuted him. He was surrounded and looked like he had to wade through these machines yet i see no marks on him whilst doing so [none on his arms that he was propelling through them, surely if he could be cut by blades his arms would have been torn to hell wading through these creatures, or when the Wasp pulls him out he would have been torn to shreds]

caption























































Ares also survives this intentional plane crash with not a scratch on him. Think about it. He had to survive the force of the crash, the explosion, the fire, then there is undoubtedly debris and shrapnel, yet he has not one scratch on him. If he was vulnerable to scratching and penetration by small projectiles this would have been a fools mission.

WOW THATS SUPER ASIAN TOUGH!!!!!

That looks like a SUPER ASIAN explosion, but he isnt Super Asian tough is he?
























































[Buckshot/Gambler is there anything you can do about images coming up in the right numerical order?]

Other feats Ares has performed make him seem way more than bullet proof. Midnighter should not be able to damage his bones or skin by punching or hittin with the staff because people like Thor, Heracles, WWHulk etc havent managed to do that to him, and they are so many echelons above Midnighter in terms of strength. The example you use of Midnighter beating the bullet proof person is pointless as Ares is much tougher than that ; also did he straight up put his hand through the person? Could you show us please.

I dont think that Midnighter knowing where someone will be is always a guarantee. Assassinate dodged his blades nicely, and people who fight him can succesfully block or avoid some of his attacks. Its not a 100% guarentee of success. Even if it was, what are shurikens going to do if they cant penetrate?

@Gambler: Apart from a POSSIBLE Wonder Woman connection, which hasnt been proven and if you look at it can be disproven, i think the instance of him being shot is really cool bad writing. Ares taking bullets like that looks hella cool, but it seems silly that he is then set on fire, survives landing after being hurled by his brother, and is hit by beings on Heracles levels of strength with no injury. Look at it another way. Standard issue police weaponary shouldnt have got through a shield, denser Olympian flesh and body armour. Yet the bullets went through like a hot knife through butter. Now there could be a crazy explanation for this MAYBE Hermes had enchanted the bullets or something and made them over penetrating  as revenge for Ares treating him the way he did? Or maybe the writer just wasnt thinking of the physics of the situation for one moment and just thought this is sweeeeeeeet. Anyway none of that takes away from the fact that Ares could just have had a power boost. What is wrong with that [i.e One minute Superman is hurt by a small lump of Kryptonite the next he is immune to it]? The Power Grid mentioned he can heal from bullet and stab wounds because it HAD happened in a comic. It did not expressly say he can STILL be harmed by bullets and blades, rather they just explained what we had saw, and yes they didnt expressly say he couldnt be harmed by bullets and blades but they did go ahead and make his durability a level higher than bullet proof, which when though of in conjunction with his feats of durability makes sense.

#92 Posted by TGC Gambler (41 posts) - - Show Bio

You keep saying that. About if bullets could put him down for good. No ones saying that. And I'm not just going off one wiki site, it states it in several sites including this one. Its funny, when we showed you something from the handbook you don't want to acknowledge it. It clearly states in the handbook that blades and bullets can injure Ares. INJURE, NOT KILL. No ones saying KILL. Yes he's the God of War, which means what? What kinda God uses man made weapons like machine guns an such? Why doesn't he have any powers that would allow him to dismiss Earth based weapons made by man if the God of War actually meant anything other then a title? He's the GREEK God of War. To other characters with different religious believes he isnt their God of War at all. And when I say he's a brawler (which he is) I mean he doesn't fight like Cap, or BP, or any other of Marvel's top hand to hand fighters.



#93 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

He dislpays plenty of skill in the Ares mini-series and is a 7 on the Power Grid master of all forms. So that your interpretaion and artist impresion if he seems like a brawler. The OHOTMU entry didnt say he can be harmed by bullets said he can heal from those types of wounds. Anyway where is Midnighter getting the bullets from. I have shown situation in which small sharp things and projectiles had a chance to penetrate his flesh and he has not one mark on him.

#94 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont care about blunt force trauma v penetrative. The force is going to be concentrated in the form of the hammer so it is quite a focused impact for one and when was the last time you saw a bullet from a hand gun shatter a mountain into dust or break Galactus armour? It doesnt matter if its blunt force trauma when you consider the amount of force being put into the hits far outstrips the bullets from a handgun.

#95 Edited by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Last time I checked this site is a wiki as well. If you wiki Marvel Olympians it says they are resistant to high calibur bullets. How do you know the guy who wrote the entry on this site didn't take it straight from Marvel.com? He obviously didn't use the handbook. Also how on earth does he not fight like Cap or BP? Just because he doesn't do a kung fu kick doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to fight. How about you give some proof that the moves he is using aren't from a particular style that has been forgotten over the centuries? He is in no way a brawler. Read the mini when he fights his son and get back to me.

The same goes for you. How can you say that he can be hurt by bullets according to the handbook and not take the fact he has mastered every art, which is his special power? Just because he isn't everyone's god of war doesn't mean that he isn't A god of war. Thor isn't everyone's god of thunder and lightning, but that doesn't mean he isn't one nor does it make him any less power. A good god of war uses machine guns. He evolves as war evolves. What sorta retards would bring a knife to a gun fight? Your not even making sense. If he is a master of every weapon, why would he not use every weapon? Hercules is a master of some styles. If it was some styles they needed the greek gods wouldn't have called on Ares twice to defeat an enemy that no one else could strategically beat and they wouldn't need the god of war to save their asses. If he was a brawler and the magical swords could hurt him, would he not have been killed a long time ago? Or would he have to use the thousands of fighting styles at his disposal in order not to get shanked in the first 5 minutes.

#96 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Straight up, allow BRAWLEY-McBRAWL beating an army of undead Samurai. Nice way to diss the Samurai martial system.

#97 Posted by TGC Gambler (41 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"He dislpays plenty of skill in the Ares mini-series and is a 7 on the Power Grid master of all forms. So that your interpretaion and artist impresion if he seems like a brawler. The OHOTMU entry didnt say he can be harmed by bullets said he can heal from those types of wounds. Anyway where is Midnighter getting the bullets from. I have shown situation in which small sharp things and projectiles had a chance to penetrate his flesh and he has not one mark on him."
Lmao, well, to hell from something you have to be injured by it correct? Not like we're talking quantum physics. Your right, who cares about the bullets. I'm talking about the blades, as in Shurikans. What where the small sharp things, where they thrown by someone of Midnighters caliber? i doubt it.
#98 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

So your telling me sharpnel from an explosion does less damage then a shuriken? No one has addressed the fact that he would easily be able to dodge/catch them out of the air anyways. So they are pointless as well. As I have said missiles move faster than shurikens. So now all Midnighter has is his stick. Which isn't gonna hurt Ares. So this fight is over.

#99 Edited by TGC Gambler (41 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah lighting yourself on fire and jumping into the middle of an army is really skillful. I don't know what I was thinking.

A knife to a gun fight? Who said anything about that? Please, show me I'm curious. In the Marvel Universe there are weapons WAAAAAAAY beyond machine guns. Hell Iron Man has more modern weapons then the God of War. Yeah he's really keeping up with the times lmao. Anyway I'm bored. peace

#100 Edited by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Running away nicely. Thats okay we both know you don't have anything anyways. Otherwise you would have addressed the catching shurikens bit. Why would Ares need Iron Man's suit? How many soldiers do you know have iron man's suit? None? Is that the weapon of a soldier? Or is it guns? Yeah again thats what I thought. Ares is a soldier not Iron Man.