• 124 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

No Door, No radio telepathy. No Olympian teleportation.

Midnighter has staff and shurikens.

Ares has sword, axe, machine gun, hand gun.

Fight in a one way corridor, no where to run or hide.

#2 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares easy, doesn't matter how many ways Midnighter sees the battle going he can't do anything to someone as powerful as Ares with a staff and shurikens.

#3 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Curbstomp. Really though what do you expect when you de-power one character.

#4 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Curbstomp. Really though what do you expect when you de-power one character.
"
He depowered the wrong one too
#5 Posted by TheDrifter (26557 posts) - - Show Bio

No Door? That sucks and makes this a curbstomp.

#6 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

WHAT!?!?! DEPOWERED? HOW? The Door isnt Midnighters powers at all, neither is radio telepathy. He has standard gear. I didnt take away his battle computer.

I didnt boost Ares powers either. I was just looking over the Ares mini and put that incarnation in this, he used guns.

Its all fair. Would have thought people would be going on about Midnighter knowing where the bullets will go and dodging them, and having beaten speedsters and being able to hurt super people etc etc.

#7 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

He may not be his power but its standard gear. Like Batman's utility belt. At least in my opinion.

#8 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio
There Ares. Whats unfair? Dude always carries a plethora of weapons, even though Mighty Avengers tries to limit him to blades he uses guns readily enough as shown by this pic and his recent fight with Heracles.


#9 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

As an immortal god, Ares possesses vast strength and endurance. His physical capabilities are superior to those of the majority of Olympian gods. He has virtually inexhaustible stamina, and does not tire appreciably after any exertion.

Like all Olympians, Ares is immortal, possessing a life essence that cannot be ended by any conventional means. He can be wounded in battle, but his godly life force gives him incredible recuperative abilities. He can fully recover from penetration wounds (such as by knife, sword, or bullet) in anywhere from minutes to hours, depending on their severity. Only an injury of such magnitude that it incinerates him or disperses a major portion of his bodily molecules could cause him physical death. Even then, his life essence may still be unharmed, and Zeus may be able to resurrect him.

Superhuman strength, stamina, durability, agility, and reflexes. He has also been shown to be injured by weapons of magical nature such as Mjolnir the hammer of Thor.

Abilities

Ares is a master of a variety of hand-to-hand combat skills. Ares is also a master of all Olympian weaponry and most human weapons ranging from clubs to modern firearms and explosives. Though having normal intellect Ares' military tactical skills are at genius-level, and he is also well versed in torture, combat engineering, and knows vast amount of military history particularly focusing on battles and wars that involved Greek and Roman (or Italian) soldiers and armies. Ares is one of the most talented and ruthless soldiers that has ever fought on Earth.

Weapons

Ares has carried a variety of different weapons as needed including swords, spears, battleaxes, daggers, guns, rifles, grenades, and anything else that can be used as a weapon.


From Ares page.



#10 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Well its not standard gear in my opinion.  Its MOSTLY used as a means of travel. Midnighter gettin the Door would have to be matched by an outside weapon of equal proportions for Ares, and i dont know what that is. The Door makes this a Curbstomp as everyone will just say DOORS HIM INTO THE SUN LOLOLOLOLOO. So in fact i would be boosting Midnighter.

#11 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mark III: Doesn't matter if Ares had no weapons at all. With what you gave Midnighter he stands no chance at all.

#12 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you mean? What i gave Midnighter? I could have sworn its what he carries; a staff and shurikens.

#13 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"What do you mean? What i gave Midnighter? I could have sworn its what he carries; a staff and shurikens."
What I should have said was "What you didn't give him."
#14 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah well i didnt give Ares a Hydra or some next enchanted Zeus Uber weapon equivelent to Mjolnir or something now did i? I just gave both chracters their standard hand held stuff. Dont think this is unfair at all. People have voted for Midnighter owning people a lot tougher than Ares on this before. Thought this would be interesting as they are both kings of battle.

#15 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"Yeah well i didnt give Ares a Hydra or some next enchanted Zeus Uber weapon equivelent to Mjolnir or something now did i? I just gave both chracters their standard hand held stuff. Dont think this is unfair at all. People have voted for Midnighter owning people a lot tougher than Ares on this before. Thought this would be interesting as they are both kings of battle."
What is he going to do to him?
#16 Edited by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Well he knows everything that happens ever so thats gotta help right. Midnighter should never ever get hit because he knows everything and can move away from everything....or so ive been told.

#17 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"Well he knows everything that happens ever so thats gotta help right. Midnighter should never ever get hit because he knows everything and can move away from everything....or so ive been told."
He doesn't know everything that happens ever, what he sees is every possible move his opponent will make. But just cause he knows it coming doesn't mean there is anything he can do about it.
#18 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

No you are wrong man. Midnighter can never get hit. Seriously you dont know what your talking about. I have been told the Midnighter knows how a day is going to happen and can avoid anything and everything if he wants to man. I mean a hundred bullets flying at him is nothing. He can even let bullets hit him in safe places, its not like bullets take giant chunks out of people.

#19 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"No you are wrong man. Midnighter can never get hit. Seriously you dont know what your talking about. I have been told the Midnighter knows how a day is going to happen and can avoid anything and everything if he wants to man. I mean a hundred bullets flying at him is nothing. He can even let bullets hit him in safe places, its not like bullets take giant chunks out of people."
I'm the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about? I think someone needs to pick up a few comics with Midnighter before stating things they don't know about.
#20 Edited by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

I know this is just an outlet for your bitterness Mark (not the first time and I doubt it will be the last), but I'll bite anyway. Might cheer you up when you prove me wrong.

Midnighter is strong enough to ruin the bodies of people who are beyond bulletproof (two examples, the Gamorran Superasians and the hammer chick from Revolutions). I'm not intimately familiar with the durability of someone like Ares, but I don't think he's bulletproof if his brother (who he shot with a machine gun) is any indication. I'm pretty sure he also got shot up in his mini, you'll have to jog my memory though. I'm thinking that if Midnighter can jack up some bulletproof people, he could do some damage to someone who isn't. That's with his fists, but he can also use his shuriken. If he can throw them anywhere near as hard as he punches he could probably put a few into Ares' body, if not his thicker parts (chest and such), maybe his eyes or balls. He could also go for nerve strikes (Ares has nerves right?) and see what that does (but I guess he'd already know what that does what with his combat computer). As for how he'd deal with bullets in a confined space, I'm pretty much restating what I said in the Midnighter/MC thread. Whether you like it or not, he does see attacks coming and he can dodge bullets because of it, even in a relatively small space. He can also block bullets with his staff and, since they're in a close space, it would probably be easy to redirect them back at Ares. And if he's using guns that he used before (I don't think they were special guns, but I'm covering my bases if they were) with which he was able to harm and kill other gods, then those bullets coming back at him would be very dangerous. Midnighter can also take bullets and live. He's done it. Last time was when Anthem was after him I believe. In the real world some bullets do blow chunks out of you, but it doesn't happen to Midnighter. It may be because it's a comic and they don't want to show it (though that shouldn't stop WSU characters) or maybe his durability just works like that (maybe his skin and muscle is made out of superkevlar or some such foolishness), whatever. Jack Hawksmoor is durable enough to walk off getting shot point blank with a shot gun multiple times, so why is it not possible that Midnighter can also take some shots without falling to pieces? Some characters are just built to be durable. In response to Midnighter seeing the whole day, he's done it. Deal with it.

Because of Ares' immortality/healing it may be impossible for Midnighter to truly kill him, but I think if he got the chance he could do what he did with that werewolf guy that had ridiculous healing ability, just mortally wound him every few seconds. He might even do him like Assassin8 and remove his arms, legs, eyes and tongue and just leave him there. Ares wouldn't die but he wouldn't be able to fight back and I don't think he can regrow limbs quickly. I think that would count as a win if he could pull it off.

Moderator
#21 Posted by SilverSurfa (256 posts) - - Show Bio

.....? Midnighter can't win just because he sees whats coming. MC wins.

#22 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio
SilverSurfa said:
".....? Midnighter can't win just because he sees whats coming. MC wins."
Wrong battle man.
Moderator
#23 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

lmao

#24 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

I would still back Ares for the eventual win.

#25 Posted by King Saturn (224765 posts) - - Show Bio
I think Ares could win here. But Midnighter is a beast... it wont be easy
Online
#26 Posted by SilverSurfa (256 posts) - - Show Bio

ah... every1 seems to being voting for ares...

Buckshot i think u know that ares wud beat him but u r just defending midnighter to defend that midnighter beats MC....

#27 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: So Midnighter punches harder than missiles, missiles that dont even harm Ares? So Midnighter with no cover can block and dodge every single well aimed barrage of bullets from the lord of war, all of them with nothing hide behind? Seems silly with just his 2 arms and legs he can move around possibly hundreds of bullets yet in his own mini and the Authority he gets hit by people that dont move of fly at him as many times or as fast as automatic fire from guns. There was even that robot guy with 5 arms who said knowing what all 5 arms would do and dodging them are two different things, indeed he got hit. If his muscle was durable enough to be ripped to shreds he would surely be bullet proof and able to walk through a hail of bullets smilling? Bullets did hurt Ares in his mini but he seemed to get over that, dunno what he did but he is obviously more durable taking missiles in the face like its nothing [maybe mystic armour or a special enchantment or elixer]. The bullets he used against Ares where laced with Hydra blood which was basically anti Herc. So makes sense they penetrated him. I dont remember Ares using bullets on any actuall deities, just the minions, so deflecting them back is fruitless.

The shuriken thing. Pretty sure Ares isnt going to stand there and be hit for one [he was fast enough to hit Hermes in the foot with a nailgun], but if missiles arent denting him i doubt shurikens are; then theres that healing factor and different physiology that lets him think with a hole through his head [never got shjown the back of his head before it healed may have had a gaping wound]. Tehn theres the fact that Midnighter isnt going to have an unexhaustable supply of Shuriken.

I am not bitter at all. Assume what you will. I was just shocked that people really though Ares had been suped up and Midnighter had been downplayed. I was wondering where the 'HE SEES IT SO HE WINS' argument was. Was just being bate to see if anyone would go ahead and offer something, as you did.

The seeing the whole day thing. Seems stupid if he falls into traps and gets beaten up and doesnt anticipate a woman he was trying to save jumping out the window. All im saying. If you look at it that way it makes the whole thing seem stupid and not well thought out on the part of the writers.

#28 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

All I said is that he punches hard enough to wreck bulletproof bodies, and Ares isn’t even that durable. Take from that what you will.

If it were Spider-Man doing the dodging you wouldn’t question it, but Midnighter gets flack from you. Midnighter sees where every bullet is going to go and has shown that he’s agile enough to dodge bullets at close range and even parry them with his staff. If you really don’t believe Midnighter can survive that attack, we could just remove it by saying Midnighter takes down the gun with a few shuriken.

And do you even read comics? Hand to hand combat is always a whole different thing. People who can dodge bullets can still get hit when they get in close. Captain can see faster than bullets and dodge them, but still gets hit on occasion when he fights. Same for Spider-Man, Wolverine, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Batman, Batgirl, Deathstroke, etc, etc. They show bullet dodgers getting hit in h2h fights because it’s entertaining.

I don’t see why you can’t wrap your head around Midnighter being able to take bullets. He doesn’t get shot much but he’s durable enough that when he does he’s not blown to pieces.

It doesn’t matter if Ares gets over the damage quickly, the damage can be done. Bullets blew holes in him, even if they only lasted a few minutes. Put a few in a line and you could chop off a limb. Shuriken could do the same. Midnighter’s staff might even be able to do it. It’s not as narrow as a sword, but it is relatively thin so he might be able to lop off a hand same way he’s cut off heads with it. Ares may not feel much pain from it, but he can’t just regrow hands, arms or whole legs. The Hydra blood didn’t make the bullets go in, they made them poisonous so they could actually kill. They could penetrate on their own, that just wouldn’t result in death. Deflecting the bullets back is not fruitless since it’s been shown that though not fatal, bullets can do physical damage.

He was fast enough to hit Hermes with a nailgun when Hermes was standing still. Yay. Even if you assume that Ares had the reflexes to hit Hermes, he still shouldn’t have been hit since Hermes can move faster than the nails. So either both Ares and the nails can move faster than Hermes can react, or he didn’t move and that’s why he got hit. And since there’s no evidence at all suggesting that Hermes was even thinking about moving from his spot, I don’t think he was. Ares hit a speedster that wasn’t moving. What other example of Ares’ speed do you have?

Which missiles are you talking about? From what you’ve said it seems like you’re getting your Ares stuff from the mini, so I looked at the mini again but I didn’t see him “taking missiles in the face like its nothing”. Could you tell me where you’re getting that from so I can look at it? But anyway, bullets and swords hurt him several times in the mini and I think Midnight can do that kind of damage. As I said he can bounce the bullets back at Ares, he can use his shuriken and he can even spit his teeth (with enough force to blow large holes in concrete). His shuriken may not be infinite, but he can always pick up ones he’s already thrown from the ground. To copy the sword he could try his staff and (if you’re really letting them have all the things they usually carry, I mean, aside from the things that you personally don’t like) the actual blades that he carries under his coat.

You can deny being bitter all you want, but everyone can clearly see why you made this thread the way you did and what outcome you wanted. And of course I responded, I enjoy having fun with you.

I don’t see how you don’t understand this. Since most of the time he’s only running his computer for the fight at hand, he’s not doing it for the whole day, so of course he doesn’t see what he isn’t looking at. You don’t have to like that he can predict a day, but he’s done it. Actually, you don’t even need to talk about it, yet you brought it up when it has nothing at all to do with this fight (or most of his fights). And you’re not bitter?

@SiverSurfa: Whether I “know” who wins or not doesn’t matter. Some of my favorite debates have been with Forever when he picks the losing side and defends it anyway. What if I’m just doing that? That doesn’t make my statements untruthful. Until my points are refuted, you won’t really “know” who wins. And I don't need to argue one fight through another, that's what LM3 does. I think I did a good enough job in the other thread that it can stand on its own.

Moderator
#29 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

The only reason Ares got cut by the sword was because it was a magical god-sword infused with power, wielded by someone who was effectively another god of war. It wasn't a generic sword or even staff wielded by someone with slighty superhuman strength. Infact the only thing it accomplished was pissing Ares off, he didn't even show pain then either he just says "my throat" and then gasps and one panel later is easily able to talk and fight. If Ares bones are strong enough so that they can be smacked by Mjolnir and Hercules and not break then I seriously doubt a staff wielded by Midnighter is gonna be enough to chop off an arm. I doubt Ares is gonna be standing around letting Midnighter turn him into a godly pin cushion, besides they are fighting in a narrow corridor which makes dodging bullets immensely more difficult. They only time Ares was actually hurt in the mini series was when he was shot at the start and he even gives the reason as to why that is. At another point in the mini series he sets himself on fire and fights a horde of zombies only getting put out till the fight finishes at no point does he show himself being in pain. Not even Orion from the JLA could keep this feat up for as long. Also Ares wears a suit of armour forged by the god's which usually seems to consist of a chest piece and a head pieces which severly limits the vital points that Midnighter would be able to hit with his shurikens. He isn't gonna stand still and let Midnighter throw shurikens into his eyes. Even if Midnighter does manage to somehow hurt him he won't even show the pain. Plus Ares is a much better fighter than Midnighter with about 3000 years more experince as well as knowing however many more fighting styles so hand to hand is out of the window there. Tactically Ares is second to none being able to formulate plans and strategies for battles using his however many year experince to draw back on. If his bullets are getting reflected I don't think he is gonna stand there and keep shooting. The first time he sees one reflected he is going for the axe/sword and h2h is not where Midnighter wants this to go.

Ares taking a missile to the face and not even flinching, then having the presence of mind to catch another missile out of the air and use it as a weapon.



#30 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

I don’t think it needs to be magical. The bullets that put holes in him weren’t magical but they worked.

A hammer spreads out the impact more than a staff, which is why I see the possibility of the staff working like a sword. If it doesn’t work like that, then he might have to use the other blades he carries.

Why do people always act as if to get hit a character has to be “standing around”. Midnighter can predict exactly where Ares will move so he can put his projectiles there. Honestly though, Ares might well just stand there. He’s probably more confident in his abilities than you guys are and you don’t think anything can hurt him. He might just believe that himself and let the attacks come without trying to avoid them. Midnighter doesn’t have to jump out of the way to dodge a bullet. He can move slightly and avoid them just as effectively. He can also use his other weapons to block bullets if he doesn’t feel like dodging.

I’m not talking about causing Ares pain. I don’t think you understand that. Just because Ares isn’t hurt by a hole in his body doesn’t mean there isn’t a hole. If Midnighter blasts or cuts Ares’ hand off, it might not bother him, but he still won’t have the hand. My other posts suggested ways he could go about dismembering Ares that would be as damaging as the bullets that have been shown to go through him.

Mark put effort into saying what weapons they had but didn’t say what they were wearing. The picture he showed though didn’t include magical armor.

All that stuff about being a better fighter or tactician isn’t anything I see portrayed in the comics.

If Ares gives up the guns Midnighter might take them away and use them himself. And swords and axes don’t scare Midnighter. He can easily punch through them.

Thanks for showing me the missile thing. Doesn’t take away the fact that Ares can be hurt by bullets and blades though. And the Superasians I mentioned in my first post were incredibly durable as well (able to get up after slamming into the earth at hundreds of mph) and that didn’t stop Midnighter from easily killing them faster than they could react.


g2g, be back later.

Moderator
#31 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

So what in the heck is Ares wearing if he ain't in his armour? Is he running around naked? He didn't say Midnighter is wearing his coat either so you can take those swords out of the equation. In the mini series, he quite clearly states that the sword is magical and it also quite clearly states that the bullets only put him down cause he wasn't used to the pain. Show me an example of Ares getting put down by normal bullets (that wasn't that first example in the mini which I have addressed more than once) and normal bladed weapons and i'll concede that normal shurikens and a metal staff can put him injure him to an extent that would put him at a disadvantage in this fight. Midnighter kills the super asians by punching and kicking them. If punches from Hercules and Thor don't take his head off how are Midnighters?

#32 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

The picture that the thread starter supplied for Ares and the one that goes with the weapons he's mentioned (guns, sword, axe) is on the first page. Don't you see it? Midnighter has one costume so we know which one he's wearing.

You're not understanding me. It doesn't matter if, had he been used to the pain, the bullets wouldn't have put it down. The point is, they went through his body and left holes. If bullets could put holes in him then, they can do it again. If little pieces of metal could be shot with enough force to penetrate his body, come out the other side and leave holes in him, for a few minutes, the bullets Midnighter tosses back at him, the shuriken he throws, his other bladed weapons and possibly his staff could do the same. Whether or not this causes Ares pain in the process doesn't matter.

Midnighter hits well enough that he can kill and cripple people who are bulletproof (unlike Ares) and have enough durability to blunt force trauma to slam into the planet at hundreds of miles per second (I wrote mph before because I was in a rush, my fault) and then get up from that and fight. It's completely unrealistic that he can do that, but he can. If Marvel doesn't want to show a main character getting their head punched off that's fine, that's how they do their comics. Midnighter can still hit that hard though.

Moderator
#33 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Thats not the picture to show what he is wearing in this battle. Its a scan giving an example of the sort of weaponary he carries, If we are going by that scan then he gets a shield, grenades and a whole other bunch of weapons, plus it isn't stated he has his swords either so you can't assume he has those.  I do understand you but I don't see what your point is. So he makes a hole in Ares. It won't stop him from fighting any harder. He won't feel the pain so its not gonna cripple his defences. He'll just keep fighting with a hole in him until it heals, which will be exceptionally quickly. As for the superasians being bullet proof I don't see anywhere that shows someone shooting at them, nor do does Gamorra state they are so I don't know how your making that assumption. In fact on closer inspection in the montage going through all their epitaths the Engineer has her gun hands, why would she be shooting at them if they're bulletproof. They can be taken down by electricity and are seen burning (something which Ares did to himself and didn't hamper his fighting ability) and can be punched in half by Jack and Midnighter, who I would put on Spiderman levels of strength at the very most. Later on in the comic he kicks the police detachment of the SuperHuman taskforce in the face and it barely phases the guy so I doubt his kick is gonna do much to Ares. Also just because Ares can be pierced with bullets doesn't mean that he can have his head punched off, especially not by someone over 100 times stronger than him. Even Hydra tipped bullets didn't keep Herc down and he ain't anywhere near as hardcore as Ares is. I don't understand how Midnighters punch even damage him, if he takes hits from Thor and Hercules and it doesn't one shoot him and I sure getting hit by Mjolnir is more damaging then slamming into the ground at speed.

#34 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

That's the picture he showed so that's what I'm going with, especially since magic armor is kind of significant. The only changes are the removal of a few weapons since he only wanted them to have their normal hand held weapons (Ares isn't Cap so I don't consider a shield a weapon for him even though he could probably attack with it. Grenades are explosives not really close quarters combat weapons so it makes sense that those aren't included.) And for that same reason I'm including Midnighter's other hand held weapons.

If bullets can put holes in Ares, then enough bullets at say, his shoulder, will make a big enough hole that the arm and body are no longer connected (or if they are, only by thin strands of meat). Then Ares is fighting without an arm and he won't just grow that back.

Ok, the superasians weren't bulletproof (the metal chick from revolutions still was) but their durability to blunt force was still amazing (you didn't address that) and yet Midnighter overcame it. (Also, you never saw The Engineer actually kill any of them with her bullets, so just because she used them doesn't mean that they worked. She's used guns on other occasions and failed.) What does being electrocuted have to do with anything? And you're back to fire again? Why? Midnighter has fought the sun, was set on fire and was perfectly fine after. What of it?

He didn't kill the soldier with one hit (was he kicking as hard as he could? proof?) but he also went on to beat him with nothing but his hands and fists after that.

I didn't say Ares could get his head punched off because he was shot by bullets.

Moderator
#35 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't use that picture because he didn't use at the start of the thread nor did he say that it was the picture used for the battle (he can clarify this when he comes online), he has only used that costume once as well as opposed to his multitude of other appearances where he is wearing his armour, which would make the shoulder trick useless as well as the shurikens and piercing. Ares may not have reflexes on Spiderman's level but he is much faster than a human with peak reflexes aka Captain America or Black Panther. Spiderman has been tagged by people like Ox from the enforcers before so I don't see how its so impossible that Ares isn't gonna be able catch Midnighter, being a much better h2h fighter than Midnighter and having countless years more experince. Plus he was fast enough to catch a missile in the air which can travel up to the speed of sound.

The electricity shows that they aren't as durable as Ares cause it set them on fire and thats what killed them, and it barely affected Ares, so my point was that they aren't anywhere near Ares' level for durablity or regenerative abilities. I agree their durablity was amazing, but slamming into the ground at high speeds is one thing, taking a hit from Mjolnir or Hercules is on another level. I'd say Wonderman is capable of the same feat but even he can't take a beating from Hercules but Ares can. As for the soldier why wouldn't he have been using his full strength? Everytime he hit the super asians they exploded and he hits to kill, so he was using at least as much power as he was using against them cause he thought it would have been effective and it didn't do anything. Same with Regis, he couldn't do anything to the guy. You could argue that he was merely waiting for Jack to position himself, but if they could have beaten him using their fists then why wouldn't they? Aside from the super asians (which I wouldn't say were anywhere near Ares in terms of durability) when has he hit and damaged (significantly) someone as durable as Ares?


#36 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

@Buckshot: I dont see why you think bullets are going to penetrate a guy who takes missiles to the face and doesnt flinch. I used the Ares from the mini to show that he carries those weapons. On most of his outings he carries a whole arsenal with him, that was one picture illustrating that, since they mostly make the Ares of Mighty Avengers carry bladed weapons, although he has used guns in Incredible Heracles. Its all the same Ares anyway. Surely since i brought up him being able to take missiles and i did actually mention his newfound invulnerability possibly being from either his ARMOUR, an ENCHANTMENT or an ELIXER it stands to reason im talking about the current Ares and not just the one from the mini [who are the same dude anyway]. I see how you are trying to twist it to get a more vulnerable Ares but that aint gonna work mate.

Im not sure, may just be me being silly, but i think if Ares can take a missile to the face [again maybe because of his armour, which wasnt present in the mini, or an enchantment or some elixer etc] bullets arent going to do a thing [unless of course he has some kind of Wonder Woman projectile type disfunction but i have never heard of that].

Regardless of how strong Midnighter is he is nowhere near as strong as Heracles or the Mighty Mjolnir weilding Thor. If they cant smoosh Ares head what chance does Midnighter have? I dont think Midnighter hits like a missile, a missile which didnt even seem to phase Ares anyway; and by phase i also mean BLOW TO SMITHEREENS OR PUT GIANT HOLES IN HIM, just in case you think im just talking about pain. Heck he fought an Ultron that made the Sentry bleed [as sickening as that is] and he took a blow from WWH without any smooshage. Can you show that Midnighter punches anywhere near that? He didnt seem able to affect Regis.

As to the bullets. I dont deny he can dodge them or deflect them. However in a confined space with only two directions to go, back and forth, with hundreds of bullets streaming down at him, bearing in mind he gets hit by things/people that dont move as fast as bullets or in as great numbers, and the fact he isnt bullet proof i dont see him surviving or being in a good enough condition afterwards to not get killed, since his healing isnt all that when compared to Deadpool or Wolverine with their much more 'on the spot' styley healing factors. It just makes sense. If he could successfully block hundreds of bullets coming at him and filling the air around him then he would be the Flash.
Seeing something and then doing something about what you have seen are two different things. I would take issue to Spiderman dodging all these bullets in this circumstance, neither of their systems are infalible, their comics reflect this, Spidey gets a worse shake than Midnighter as sometimes he gets hit by people not on par at all that he should be able to dodge even without a Spidersense, but this isnt always, or even hardly ever, the case with Midnighter.

The Super Asians. I noticed that when they crashed into the ground they seemed to have a glow around them, possibly like canonnball keeping them safe when they impact. Also, lol this sounds racist, they all looked the same to me how could you tell it was the ones that crashed into the ground who got up? What if they were Kamikaze [wow i do sound racist hahahaha] units? There were certainly enough of them for it to be that. Everyone on the team was killing them easily, Swift didnt have a problem with them, so their invulnerability is a bit suspect.  

I wasnt/am not  bitter about the Halo thing 1. I dont think i lost, so i have nothing to hold a grudge for there 2. The space of time between the two debates has been long, allow holding an internet grudge like that.

I was trying to get peoples Ire up to think of something, which you did, cause it was turning into an Ares wins only thing. It does/did seem like a good match in terms of their reps god of war/most dangerous man alive....
 

#37 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio
Takes it better than a super Asian

There we go. Ares all armoured up. Not even sure thats what makes him invulnerable anyway, could be anything.

If bullets, shurikens and a staff could take this guy out why is Iron man talking about 6 heavy hitters inluding the Sentry.


#38 Posted by Ebony Bishop (767 posts) - - Show Bio

The sad thing is, they sure haven't written him that tough since then.

#39 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

I think they have sorta. He did beat Ultron in the end. He has been seen to take misiles like its nothing when fighting Herc, in that run he even lays WonderMan low, not an easy feat at all.

But they need to make him dith the Mighty chumps and be his own man, rather than just a big impetuous guy with swords, make him more cool and unstoppable like in his mini.

#40 Posted by Vance Astro (91364 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"

I think they have sorta. He did beat Ultron in the end. He has been seen to take misiles like its nothing when fighting Herc, in that run he even lays WonderMan low, not an easy feat at all.

But they need to make him dith the Mighty chumps and be his own man, rather than just a big impetuous guy with swords, make him more cool and unstoppable like in his mini.

"
The Sentry is the one who beat Ultron.
Moderator
#41 Edited by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Sentry fought Ultron. Ares is the one that flew down her throat and planted the virus, and the one that came up with the idea.

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (91364 posts) - - Show Bio
Ace High said:
"Well Sentry fought Ultron. Ares is the one that flew down her throat and planted the virus, and the one that came up with the idea.
"
Sentry ripped her head off....
Moderator
#43 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

Then it grew back didn't it?

#44 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

Ares went in with the virus was what did it. Not the Sentry ripping the head off. Ms. Marvel even says it.

caption

#45 Posted by Vance Astro (91364 posts) - - Show Bio
Logic Mark III said:
"Ares went in with the virus was what did it. Not the Sentry ripping the head off. Ms. Marvel even says it.

caption

"
I believe Ares was the one who took out Ultron but..this scan explains how Ms.Marvel stopped the Sentry not how Ares beat Ultron.
Moderator
#46 Posted by captain strange (73 posts) - - Show Bio

ares ftp.

#47 Posted by Logic Mark III (2121 posts) - - Show Bio

She says he God of Warred him back into existence, now since Ultron had taken Tony over im assuming that means he kicked Ultrons ass. Go read the comic man, They stop the Sentry cause ripping off Ultrons head might have ruined Ares plans to deliver the virus. The Sentry actually nearly made them lose.

#48 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

@ace: I’ve said it before, I think most (not all) times Spider-Man gets hit it’s an example of bad (or maybe lazy) writing. I understand that he needs to get hit to make the fights seem more even, like he might not actually win this time, but they should find better ways to do it instead of just ignoring a power he has that lets him avoid being hit.

Skill as a fighter doesn’t mean much if you can’t land a hit because your enemy knows all your moves long before you make them. I know Midnighter gets hit on occasion but it’s usually because (the in-story excuse) he likes to enjoy his fights more and makes them last longer. If he doesn’t want to be hit (against someone who doesn’t severely outclass him in speed) he really shouldn’t be. And in this fight he’d be screwed if he decided to just let himself be hit a few times so he’d avoid it since he wouldn’t have backup to bail him out.

The electricity didn’t set them on fire, it electrocuted them. They died and burst into flames when they tried to cross The Doctor’s magical barrier. I doubt Thor hits (people) with as much force as slamming into the ground at hundreds of miles per second. You’ve got a point about Wonder Man though.

Maybe (for some reason) he didn’t realize he was superhuman and kicked him with enough strength to kill a human. People love Regis. The guy was very durable. He walked out of an explosion that turned the White House to rubble after being set on fire (you like fire, thought I’d mention it). It didn’t harm him in any way, just made him mad. He’s also durable enough that people better than Midnighter have had their hands shatter when trying to hit him. Not being able to hurt him doesn’t mean Midnighter is weak. You could ask, “why didn’t they do it this way?”, and it’s because they didn’t want to. They could have easily had The Doctor go in and turn him into a cupcake, but they didn’t. Does that mean that he couldn’t do it? No.

When Ares does what the superasians did (or something similar), then I’ll believe that he’s on their level. As for another time when he’s hit someone as durable as Ares, I already mentioned Revolutions. He’s also made Apollo bleed. Most of the other people he hits that might be that durable (robots, analogues of other durable characters) aren’t around long enough to see exactly how tough they are. How many times has Ares taken a missile to the face? And really, “as durable as Ares” means “able to be shot”, and in that case, there are a lot more people Midnighter has killed like that.

@mark: Why wouldn’t I think bullets are going to penetrate Ares? They already have. Maybe he, Hercules, and the rest of their family have Wonder Woman’s RDD (reverse durability disorder) and they’re more resistant to big things than small ones. Whatever the case, Ares can be shot and injured by small projectiles. Was there another instance where bullets hit his flesh and bounced off? If you can find something like that I’ll buy it. Not something big like an explosion. Bullets on skin.

I don’t think I’m twisting anything. If there’s a magical suit of armor he sometimes wears, I think you should mention if he’s got it now. You talked about guns and blades that he “normally carries”, but he doesn’t “normally carry” them when he’s got his magical suit of armor (mighty avengers). He carries blades then. When he did carry a gun with that costume, it was specifically for shooting Hercules. He didn’t just happen to have it with him because he usually does, he’d prepared ahead of time and carried it when he normally wouldn’t. I was thinking of him in the costume he had when he carried all the weapons you’re giving him in this fight and then you posted that picture so I didn’t think I was wrong. You didn’t even know why he was that durable but I’m supposed to know it was the armor and so therefore he’s wearing it? Anyway, his upper arms and legs aren’t armored so those are vulnerable to blades and bullets. (Looks to me like the missile hit him in his chest where he was armored, not his face, btw.)

Lol, the corridor is so narrow Midnighter can’t even take a step to the side? Probably can’t even extend his staff fully or get enough space for his arm to throw either. Yeah, this was a fair fight, no bitterness at all. Trapping him in a hallway with a nearly indestructible turret. Regardless, I’ll say he can hold off the bullets (the ones that could kill him at least) for a little while like he did when he fought the tank. Long enough to turn enough bullets back on Ares that he doesn’t want to shoot anymore, that might mess up his aim, or to knock the gun out of his hand (with bullets or his weapons). You said it would take a speedster to handle all the bullets so I think being able to out-react one buys him some time.

Apollo had a glow around him when he flew too so I’m not ready to assume they had Cannonball’s powers without further evidence. Did you see any of them landing without smashing into the ground? Why does how the rest of the team fought suggest they weren’t durable? Engineer fired guns but was never shown hurting any of them. The Doctor turned them into birds, doesn’t test their durability. Hawksmoor punched heads off, but he’s stronger than Midnighter and has the anger of a burning city backing him up. Swift was knocking them down and picking them up, not hurting their bodies, so that doesn’t test durability. (She and Angie ended up herding them while Apollo and Jenny did all the actual damage.) Jenny was electrocuting them, which isn’t the same as a punch. It’s not like Swift was ripping them apart or anything.

As I said, we all know why you made this thread. Don’t front, just be happy I’m giving you something to work with instead of just ignoring this one-sided fight.

Scans: Which do you think is more powerful, a normal lightning bolt or one from a god of electricity? And what does that have to do with anything anyway? I’ve been talking about the kind of damage a bullet does, not lightning.

Iron Man is trying to get Ares to work for him. Threatening him with a ton of force is respectful by the god of war’s standards, and tells Ares how highly Iron Man thinks of him. He’s pretty much saying, “You’re so tough, it would take 11 of my best to handle you. You’re just that awesome.” It’s an ego boost, and you can see that it worked. Better than saying, “I could sit in the helicarrier and blast you to dust with a hail of bullets or a space laser.” Plus, Iron Man has never met Midnighter so he doesn’t really know how effective a staff and some shuriken can be.

@Bishop: I agree. I had high hopes for Ares after the mini and when they first brought him in to Mighty Avengers. He hasn’t lived up to expectations though.

Moderator
#49 Posted by Ace High (625 posts) - - Show Bio

In the first instance they get burned on Doctor's barrier, later on they are burnt alive by Jenny Sparks says "I electrocuted another wave of them" just as they are falling. Electricity is electricity, I don't remember reading anywhere that because it comes from Jenny Sparks its more powerful than it would usually be, plus when you get struck by lightning it burns you, hence the fact they burst into flames. The reason I keep using flames is as an example of his healing factor and durability and I think its a pretty good one seeing as even Orion from the JLA couldn't do it for long. Why would he not think the guy was super human? (Not being racist) He looked exactly the same as the rest of the super asians but with a dodgy moustache. He was that close to the heart of the Gamorra enterprises, if they had super human foot soldiers why wouldn't they have super human guards, even after that point why didn't he finish it in one hit if he knew that he what level of power he was dealing with. Infact why didn't his tech tell him before hand? if he didn't know how hard to hit that guy he may not know how hard to hit Ares. As for Ares durability how about he fights Thor and Hercules on a semi regular basis . Thor may not hit people with that much force but when he fights other gods he seems to go all out, when he fought Ares when he had his strength jacked up he was hitting him as hard as he could and Ares didn't have his durability amped, fully powered Mjolnir (or Stormbreaker), can smash a hole in Galactus (which is however many times more powerful than a missile anyways). 

Give me an instance where bullets hurt Ares enough for it to stop him fighting. Or when he has been attacked by a non magical sword and cut? The official Marvel Handbook has Ares durability as "superhuman" which is the one above "bulletproof". So I think the start of that mini-series may have been a lack of research. Saying that he hasn't been hurt by bullets since then. Hercules has enough power to phase WWH when he wasn't even fighting at full strength. I am pretty sure that is harder than hitting the ground at speed. Show me examples of super asians taking hits from something as powerful as Mjolnir and then i'll concede they are on the same level as Ares. When Hercules is weakened by the Hydra blood he gets attacked by a bunch of SHIELD soldiers all carrying assault rifles and it he doesn't take any damage from them during the course of the fight.

I never said Midnighter was weak. I am just saying that he couldn't hurt Regis. I am pretty sure if not one of those missiles could have destroyed the White House then when he takes the three or four at the end of the fight with Hercules and all he says is "ow" definately would have. Space lasers from the carrier wouldn't hurt Ares anyways. They tried it on Herc and it didn't work so I don't see why it would be any different. I don't see why Tony Stark would starting saying hyberpole to Ares. If bullets and swords could hurt Ares he woulda threatened him with Bullseye or the Taskmaster or any number of the super powered assassins he has on the pay roll not the big guns that he did. Or he just woulda set them on in him in the first place. Why have a loose cannon like Ares running around if you can take him out of the equation?


#50 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you have anything to show that the fire is what killed them? They were walking through the fire and explosions of the city and were fine. Why couldn’t it be that the electricity killed them and the fire just burned their bodies after they were dead? She says she electrocuted them, not that she killed them with fire. And again, what does it matter that a guy in another universe had problems with fire? That’s not the kind of damage I’m talking about. I’m talking about the kind of damage that’s been proven to work on Ares that Midnighter can replicate.

He looked like a normal cop walking in a parking lot. He wasn’t wrapped in spandex and destroying cities. Other than “looking Asian” (like everyone in Gamorra looks, superhuman or not), he didn’t look like the others. As for why Midnighter didn’t just kill him in one shot, maybe he was having fun, or maybe the guard was tougher than the others. We know he had other powers and since he was supposed to stay and guard, not just fly to and maybe not come back, he might have been built better since he’s guarding the base.

The projectiles don’t have to hurt him enough to make him want to stop fighting, just do enough damage that he can’t. Ares had slash marks on him when he was fighting through the demon army and I don’t recall anything saying all their weapons were magical. You can drop the blunt force comparisons because they don’t really matter. Ares has been shot clearly and undeniably. Continue to struggle with that concept if you must. Same question I asked Mark, was there another instance where bullets hit his (Ares’) flesh and bounced off? If you can find something like that I’ll buy it. Not something big like an explosion. Bullets on skin.

Not being able to hurt Regis isn’t a mark against Midnighter when Regis said people better than him couldn’t do it either and actually crippled themselves trying. Looking at the explosins caused by the missiles hitting Ares, they weren’t anywhere near as large as the White House. What I said Stark didn’t say was an example. Contrasting a threat that would boost Ares’ ego instead and something that would insult him. He was talking to him to get him on his side, not make an enemy and start a fight if he could avoid it.

Moderator