Archangel vs. Captain America

ArchAngel wrecks, in a training session he killed the entire X-Force team, he's a monster. 

Warren.

Honestly reviewing the two they seem fairly evenly matched. 
Both are at peak human levels (someone here stated that C.A has been classified as above peak human strength..haven't seen that though but it's possible), both have increased healing but I would put Archangels healing factor slightly above Caps though It is nowhere on a Wolverine level as in cuts heal within seconds. 
I have no clue what a "bloodlusted" Cap would do and seeing as how they are both bloodlusted it seems rather....pointless to add in. Have we ever seen either of their abilities measured at "bloodlusted" levels? If not whatever they could do would be pure assumption and nothing could back it up. 
 
I would give this to Warren for having superhuman levels of Stamina allowing him to last a bit longer than cap as well as having the advantage of flight. 
Many might consider flight to be overrated but I believe it to be a good strategy in avoiding attacks. 
 
However Cap is a better fighter than Warren so he would not want to stay within meele range for long. Using his wings to catch C.A off guard would be an advantage as well. 
In a 5 round fight i would give it to Archangel 3/5. 
 
Would like to see a more logical argument for C.A as a believe this would be an interesting fight.

@Kallarkz: Stamina, or fatigue would not be a problem for Steve/Cap. As it's been stated the super soldier serum replenishes his body. So he does not become fatigued.

Archangel can fly the biggest advantage :)

@czarny_samael said:

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

Archangel.

No chance.

Why?

Because he has every advantage that matters in this fight. 

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

Archangel.

No chance.

Why?

Because he has every advantage that matters in this fight. 

How he will not be cutted in pieces by Archangel?

Archangel can fly at the speed of sound, which is the biggest advantage :)

@czarny_samael said:

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

Archangel.

No chance.

Why?

Because he has every advantage that matters in this fight. 

How he will not be cutted in pieces by Archangel?

Shield.

@czarny_samael: Where is your prove that Cap is slower than X-23 and slower than Wolvie??? I actualy thought (and still do) that cap is faster and more agile than both of them. I'm not saying you're wrong only that I've never seen or read anything that proved wolverine or X-23 being faster than Cap. An Warren atacking in various directions is not so acurate. Firts of all, his attacks must come from him before he can spread them  in various directions and have a limited range (we're talking about the wings here and not his "throwing knives") so if Steve is in front of him all he has to do is jump back before Warren's attacks hit him.

I agree with Archangel winning this fight. 
 
Hasn't anyone read all of the X-Force books, as well as Messiah War, etc? Archangel is a freaking BEAST. Especially in close quarters. He literally just spins in circles and his wings completely destroy everything around him.

@czarny_samael: 1)Cap keeps dodging bullets all the time even without his shield while X-23 and Wolverine keep being hit by bullets only surviving because of their healing factor.  2) There is no prove Cap is or isn't fast enough to dodge Archangel's attacks. You say he can't while I say he can. And Cap can protect himself by shield. That is obvious. Besides using his shield (to defend himself from some attacks) he uses his agilitie as well to doge the ones he can't with his shiled. Most people who don't know Cap think he relies too much on his shield when he's proven more than well enough that he still can compete with top tier Marvel figthers without it. But I guess there's no sense on keeping debating about this. You have your opinion and you backed it up with valid arguments.  We just have to respect each other's opinions.

                    @alexandrinus said:

@czarny_samael: 1)Cap keeps dodging bullets all the time even without his shield while X-23 and Wolverine keep being hit by bullets only surviving because of their healing factor.  2) There is no prove Cap is or isn't fast enough to dodge Archangel's attacks. You say he can't while I say he can. And Cap can protect himself by shield. That is obvious. Besides using his shield (to defend himself from some attacks) he uses his agilitie as well to doge the ones he can't with his shiled. Most people who don't know Cap think he relies too much on his shield when he's proven more than well enough that he still can compete with top tier Marvel figthers without it. But I guess there's no sense on keeping debating about this. You have your opinion and you backed it up with valid arguments.  We just have to respect each other's opinions.

                   

               

No, why? I would like to see Cap's speed feats agaisnt fast people. I se him only in many Avengers series and I was never impressed enough to put him in fight with Spider-Man for example, while I see Archangel cutting off Spidey's head. Shield give him an advantage, but not enough IMO. Wolvie is known from his speed, the same with X-23. They are more animal fast, then human, which is better than just superhuman. Archangel showed superspeed that is above them. He is also more deadly than them. He can attack Cap from many directions at once. If get close to him - Steve is dead. He will do to him what he did to Vanisher. Cap still has only two arms. Warren has two hands and two deadly wings. Archangel is able to take blast from Cyke and still keep coming.   Now about shield. To attack Warren, he would have to throw it (in opposite, we would see Archangel still attacking him with his knives) and by this way, he will lose his only protection. If he wouldn't, he would have to try attack Warren by his feats. But even assuming that he is faster than Archangel, coming near him is still a death wish.   But even assuming that Cap will be able to punch him 2-3 times, before Archangel will contrattack, Warren is still too durable to be putted down by Cap's attack. Even if Cap will use his knife, Archangel also has HF (but not as good as "Wolvies"), so he won't die and before any sign of hurt he will cut Cap.

                   

               

Omg Archangel would just man handle captain in 9999/10000 situations...he could fly to high elevations swoop down at incredible speeds launching his projectiles at captain b4 cap has a chance to even react of and theres also the fac theat angel can use hi wings to decepitate cap and block his shield and kinife attacks with his wings as well. Warren wins easily!

Captain America is an enhanced human, quicker and stronger than most humans but against most mutants he wouldn't stand a chance...his CV would suck if his name was Cap Cananda and not Cap America haha Marvel favortism,...anagel is the superior being and would win!

@scyven said:

Omg Archangel would just man handle captain in 9999/10000 situations...he could fly to high elevations swoop down at incredible speeds launching his projectiles at captain b4 cap has a chance to even react of and theres also the fac theat angel can use hi wings to decepitate cap and block his shield and kinife attacks with his wings as well. Warren wins easily!

Welcome to the Vine, for I see you are new, and you have made a very good points.

Archangel wins this fight, for he can travel at the speed of sound (as mentioned above) in his swiftest speeds, when blood lusted. Captain America, although has shown great reflexes, can not react to Angel's speeds when he swoops down, especially dodging and blocking Angel's projectiles. One swoop and Captain America will be decapitated.

I give this battle to Archangel for the majority, 75 - 80% of the time. It is a near stomp.

Vouile

@god_spawn said:

cap

Your a mod!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Vouile:

I don't see it as a stomp. Archangel doesn't just take off and blitz Steve beyond mach speeds (I don't think Warren even reaches beyond mach 1 anyway) and considering Steve can see faster than bullets (hence why he dodges them so easily) the likely hood of Archangel's speed being the deciding factor is something I find doubtful. And his pinions themselves aren't terribly fast considering Logan has deflected and Steve himself has blocked bullets from multiple angles while falling so I think he can cover himself just fine. Eventually Archangl will get caught and Steve can throw that shield of his through trucks. Warren is definitely gonna feel the hits.

@Erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

@erik said:

@czarny_samael said:

Archangel.

No chance.

Why?

Because he has every advantage that matters in this fight.

How he will not be cutted in pieces by Archangel?

Shield.

1 shield

2 wings

@Super_SoldierXII said:

When asked how he dodges them point blank by an astonished Black Widow, he reminds her that not only are his physical attributes enhanced, but so too are his senses. Enhanced vision. If CA can dodge bullets, he can manuever around Archangel's wings.

Use your brain... he's reacting to the gun and the person, not the bullet.

Crazy Archangel wins

Archangel has a new blood soaked red white and blue flag after this battle.

Captain America FTW, a bloodlusted CAP is a scary mofo

I'm going to go with Archangel here, don't think I've read any stories of a blood lusted Captain America; so for now I think the winner would be Archangel.

@Hksaru:

Use your brain... he's reacting to the gun and the person, not the bullet.

Wow! Golly! That's such a brand spankin new concept. Why haven't others thought of that? You're something special fella that's fer sure.

Unfortunately, in this case, you're just regurgitating commonplace street leveler jargon without knowing what you're talking about in the slightest with regards CA because you don't know the character, his feats, or, well, much of anything herein really. Why don't you mosey on back and tell someone to 'use their brain' when you find yours and begin to know what it is your preaching there bud. M'kay?

While he certainly 'times the shooter', Steve's senses are also enhanced, as are his reaction timing. He does indeed 'see' faster, and this established by feats, slowing the bullets down and enabling him to react with greater precision. Could give two craps about your opinion to the contrary.

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hksaru:

Use your brain... he's reacting to the gun and the person, not the bullet.

Wow! Golly! That's such a brand spankin new concept. Why haven't others thought of that? You're something special fella that's fer sure.

Unfortunately, in this case, you're just regurgitating commonplace street leveler jargon without knowing what you're talking about in the slightest with regards CA because you don't know the character, his feats, or, well, much of anything herein really. Why don't you mosey on back and tell someone to 'use their brain' when you find yours and begin to know what it is your preaching there bud. M'kay?

While he certainly 'times the shooter', Steve's senses are also enhanced, as are his reaction timing. He does indeed 'see' faster, and this established by feats, slowing the bullets down and enabling him to react with greater precision. Could give two craps about your opinion to the contrary.

Indeed he does

@Super_SoldierXII

I was referring to that specific feat mentioned. The implication that Captain America dodges point blank bullet fire by reacting to the bullet itself is nonsensical.

@Hksaru said:

@Super_SoldierXII

I was referring to that specific feat mentioned. The implication that Captain America dodges point blank bullet fire by reacting to the bullet itself is nonsensical.

You mean as 'nonsensical' as someone dawning tights to fight crime, someone flying through outer space, shooting laser beams out their eyes, wielding a magical hammer, or a guy that turns into a monster due to gamma radiation, another that channels something called the speed force to move at FTL speeds, a dude that dawns a ring to fight interstellar threats ... are you saying comics and their super powered heroes defy modern day science and logic? That they invite us to suspend what we know to be possible, and actually use our imaginations? Dear lord man!!

Captain America is enhanced. Due to said enhancements, in the wonderful world of comics, his enhanced senses slow bullet trajectory down to aid in their avoidance. Obviously Steve doesn't move 800 meters per second (or faster than the speed of sound) and relies on said senses, enhancements and skill (timing the shooter if you will) to do so successfully.

The point was obvious if you but 'use your brain'.

@Hksaru: Here is Captain America dodging a bullet AFTER it left the gun...

Here is one of Cap dodging multiple bullets after they've been fired and while in the middle of doing a flip...

and another one of him bringing up his shield to block a bullet, again AFTER it's been fired...

So there are a few instances where he is indeed reacting to the bullet and not the gun and shooter.

And for those saying that Archangel can fly at sonic speeds, yes he can, but not in a confined space such as a warehouse. Infact a warehouse gives Cap the advantage, many things for him to take cover behind, as well as his shield obviously, and ricochet his shield off of alot of things to where Archangel will have no idea where the attack is coming from.

This combined with his vastly superior H2H and experience I think Cap takes a solid majority 7/10

it really depends on the setting

@god_spawn said:

@Vouile:

I don't see it as a stomp. Archangel doesn't just take off and blitz Steve beyond mach speeds (I don't think Warren even reaches beyond mach 1 anyway) and considering Steve can see faster than bullets (hence why he dodges them so easily) the likely hood of Archangel's speed being the deciding factor is something I find doubtful. And his pinions themselves aren't terribly fast considering Logan has deflected and Steve himself has blocked bullets from multiple angles while falling so I think he can cover himself just fine. Eventually Archangl will get caught and Steve can throw that shield of his through trucks. Warren is definitely gonna feel the hits.

I see this battle as a near-stomp, due to Archangel holding the capabilities of flying at sound speeds, much more than what Captain America can handle. Cap' especially wouldn't stand a chance against a blood lusted Archangel. The pinions aren't incredibly swift , but they would still contribute to being one of the obstacles Cap' has to face against Angel, so he would have to have his attention very divided.

But I am not giving this fight to Archangel in a straight out stomp, because a peak human with efficient fighting skills and reflexes has some chances to fare against an accelerating speedster, as such in this battle, Archangel.

Vouile

@Vouile said:

@god_spawn said:

@Vouile:

I don't see it as a stomp. Archangel doesn't just take off and blitz Steve beyond mach speeds (I don't think Warren even reaches beyond mach 1 anyway) and considering Steve can see faster than bullets (hence why he dodges them so easily) the likely hood of Archangel's speed being the deciding factor is something I find doubtful. And his pinions themselves aren't terribly fast considering Logan has deflected and Steve himself has blocked bullets from multiple angles while falling so I think he can cover himself just fine. Eventually Archangl will get caught and Steve can throw that shield of his through trucks. Warren is definitely gonna feel the hits.

I see this battle as a near-stomp, due to Archangel holding the capabilities of flying at sound speeds, much more than what Captain America can handle. Cap' especially wouldn't stand a chance against a blood lusted Archangel. The pinions aren't incredibly swift , but they would still contribute to being one of the obstacles Cap' has to face against Angel, so he would have to have his attention very divided.

But I am not giving this fight to Archangel in a straight out stomp, because a peak human with efficient fighting skills and reflexes has some chances to fare against an accelerating speedster, as such in this battle, Archangel.

Vouile

Warren flies at the speed of sound which is mach 1. Since can see and dodge bullets, Archangel is not too fast for him to react. It still gives him an advantage but not something Steve can't overcome since he has blocked and dodged through multiple people shooting at him and the pinions do not move at bullet speeds so I find little reason why Steve can't get him. Steve has A) he can dodge through multiple projectiles moving at or faster the speed of sound (bullets for example) from all different directions. Archangel is not too fast in that regard. B) This also gets rid of the pinion problem since he Steve can get around them or defend. He can get himself in a position Warren can't get him with that shield be it a swoop or pinion. C) A solid blow with that shield will hurt Warren which Steve can capitalize on.

@god_spawn said:

@Vouile said:

@god_spawn said:

@Vouile:

I don't see it as a stomp. Archangel doesn't just take off and blitz Steve beyond mach speeds (I don't think Warren even reaches beyond mach 1 anyway) and considering Steve can see faster than bullets (hence why he dodges them so easily) the likely hood of Archangel's speed being the deciding factor is something I find doubtful. And his pinions themselves aren't terribly fast considering Logan has deflected and Steve himself has blocked bullets from multiple angles while falling so I think he can cover himself just fine. Eventually Archangl will get caught and Steve can throw that shield of his through trucks. Warren is definitely gonna feel the hits.

I see this battle as a near-stomp, due to Archangel holding the capabilities of flying at sound speeds, much more than what Captain America can handle. Cap' especially wouldn't stand a chance against a blood lusted Archangel. The pinions aren't incredibly swift , but they would still contribute to being one of the obstacles Cap' has to face against Angel, so he would have to have his attention very divided.

But I am not giving this fight to Archangel in a straight out stomp, because a peak human with efficient fighting skills and reflexes has some chances to fare against an accelerating speedster, as such in this battle, Archangel.

Vouile

Warren flies at the speed of sound which is mach 1. Since can see and dodge bullets, Archangel is not too fast for him to react. It still gives him an advantage but not something Steve can't overcome since he has blocked and dodged through multiple people shooting at him and the pinions do not move at bullet speeds so I find little reason why Steve can't get him. Steve has A) he can dodge through multiple projectiles moving at or faster the speed of sound (bullets for example) from all different directions. Archangel is not too fast in that regard. B) This also gets rid of the pinion problem since he Steve can get around them or defend. He can get himself in a position Warren can't get him with that shield be it a swoop or pinion. C) A solid blow with that shield will hurt Warren which Steve can capitalize on.

Not to mention that in the setting, a warehouse, Archangel isn't going to be able to get to his top speeds while flying, so Cap wouldn't have any problems dealing with Warrens speed. Plus plenty of cover to get behind and things to ricochet his shield off of to attack Archangel from different angles, makes this far from a stomp and honestly puts it in Cap's favor in my opinion.

@alexandrinus said:

@czarny_samael: Why do you say cap could only attack once from a distance? I agree archangel is a beast when bloodlusted but I wouldn't give him the victory that easily. I even think cap can take this. Even if archangel keeps attacking at a distance, cap simply has to use his shield to shield himself from his attacks. If archangel really wanted to win he would have to get close by and then the advantage would be cap's. Cap his a master of combat and he builds strategies as the figth goes on. I think he would find a way to get archangel to attack him up close. If each of them just keep their distance, then it's a draw.

I agree with you

Archangel's wings have been used to block projectiles such as missiles and flame and they cover his whole body with their flexibility. Even if he did go in melee with Cap, his wings pose a huge problem as someone said they can attack from all kinds of angles. And since he his blood lusted, he would have no issues maiming Cap, and might even do it by accident like when he accidently removed someone's head who was standing to close to him.

Steve is bloodlusted. His every move will be calculated to kill. Simply put, while more powerful, Warren does not have the skill or the durability to counter a bloodlusted Rogers. The shield neutralizes Warren's principle offensive strength.

Rogers will take this one due to specifics mentioned in the OP.

If Steve tries to stab with that knife, Warren has 2 knives that are more than 10 times it's size coming at different directions. The shield hardly neutralizes, as the shield's size is dwarfed by just one if the wings and someone provided a scan of the wings going around and stabbing the backside of Vanisher.

Archangel with high difficulty.

WW

Same as my comment on the first page

Archangel

Great matchup, I kinda favour Archangel for some reason.