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#1 Posted by LightningGod67 (240 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman has the Water Hand in his possession.  He also has his trident.
 
Pre-52 Versions. 
 
The fight takes place on a Tropical Island.
Aquaman is blood-lusted. Black Adam's morals are on. 
Win by K.O. or Death. 
No prep. 
Who wins?
 

  
#2 Posted by SexualLobster (995 posts) - - Show Bio

black adam..

#3 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@LightningGod67: He never had Neptunes Trident when he had the water hand. The magic of both sort of makes this unfair. Especially since the trident counters magic and could therefore turn BA back to Teth

#4 Posted by SUNMAN (7269 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam

#5 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@SexualLobster: @SUNMAN: You guy's do both know that the trident given him by Neptune for saving him from Hades is as powerful as Mjilnor right?

#6 Posted by SUNMAN (7269 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: as I said Black Adam wins

#7 Posted by spiderbuck (2455 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@LightningGod67: He never had Neptunes Trident when he had the water hand. The magic of both sort of makes this unfair. Especially since the trident counters magic and could therefore turn BA back to Teth

I came in here to say BA stomps .... but under the circumstances I might just have to see how this plays out with the rest of the Viners before I can make a commitment to one side. Based on the above post I'm leaning towards AM.

#8 Posted by chiq (2062 posts) - - Show Bio

Can AM mindrape BA?

#9 Posted by LubeMan (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam has no morals, and Aquaman is not in his league, there really isn't anything he could do to hurt BA, and it's just a matter of how long it will take for BA to get pissed off enough to end Orin permanently, imo.

#10 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderbuck: BA would definitely stomp without the water hand and trident. With just the water hand he would win but may have to work for it. The trident however counters all magic and his powers come from magic so i just don't see how he can win. AM undoes his transformation and makes him mortal and then with the water hand simply drains him dry of any water for the kill. Considering that the trident allows him teleportation, energy manip, control over weather, the ability to even cause earth quakes, hell he can control the air in BA's lungs or the blood in his veins and simply have him beat himself to death. I suppose the trident is the only way he could even be in the match but it just seems a little unfair

#11 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@SexualLobster: @SUNMAN: You guy's do both know that the trident given him by Neptune for saving him from Hades is as powerful as Mjilnor right?

LIEEEES

#12 Posted by dondave (38979 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman ftw

Online
#13 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@beatboks1 said:

@SexualLobster: @SUNMAN: You guy's do both know that the trident given him by Neptune for saving him from Hades is as powerful as Mjilnor right?

LIEEEES

No it's not. The trident was intended to go from Poseiden to his son Triton. When Triton betrays the god and Arthur saves him from Hades. Posieden killed his son and gave the trident to AM. The trident grants the wielder complete control over water in all forms ( including vapor and ice- Arthur can use it to control fogs, mists, rain, condensation, even the pressure on tectonic plates and cause earth quakes). It also counters and undoes all magic, has healing capabilities and can warp dimensions and allow dimensional travel

The story it was given to AM was this one - http://www.comicvine.com/aquaman-fish-tartarus/37-45139/

#14 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam curbstomp

#15 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@SexualLobster: @SUNMAN: @LubeMan: @Stronger: Please can any of you tell me how BA deals with somone who has a powerful artifact that negates and undoes magic when his powers all come from magic. The OP stated pre 52 versiosn and with his trident. So this isn't the new 52 trident that is just an old Atlantean weapon that is indestructible and can hurt Darkseid. The only trident that AM had pre 52 was the one given him by Poseidon that can undo magic and therefore undo BA's power transformation, just like it undid the spells of the enemies of his wizard father Atlan. . It's really not that hard a question. You all say curbstomp but I fail to see how. Without the trident Yes it would be a definite BA win

#16 Posted by ComicStooge (14755 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: You don't think Adam's massive speed/reaction time advantage will come into play?

#17 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

The trident negates magic,since when???

Scans.....

#18 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:

@SexualLobster: @SUNMAN: You guy's do both know that the trident given him by Neptune for saving him from Hades is as powerful as Mjilnor right?

And that is the reason why BA fans can't admitt that Aquaman wins here. You could bring any other weapon, but if You mentioned Thor's one, they can't agree with You, since Thor > Aquaman in physical stats and Mjolnir's feats are still above trident's ones mentioned here, it would mean that BA is levels below Thor. Something, that BA fan would never say ;-D
#19 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1:

The trident negates magic,since when???

Scans.....

It always did. Arthur has never really carried the trident ( well once IIRC). The use of it to negate his father Atlan's magic by Triton was how he killed him. Arthur IIRC only used it once after receiving it to face some old mage enemies of his father. There are a couple of times that Poseidon and Triton used it's power. It is however the only trdent that Arthur had pre 52 which is the version here. The current trident doesn't as far as i know because it isn't from the god's just ancient Atlantean weapon.

@ComicStooge: BA isn't that quick. It's not like he's Captain Marvel who is FTL. He's about half that and while there is a speed advantage i would not call it massive. Especially not against someone who can teleport which Arthur can do both with the trident and with the water hand (which by the way also has the ability to nullify magic though not to the Trident's degree - did nullify Tempest's magic)

#20 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I guess Aquaman stomps then.

But I think I am gonna need some scans.

#21 Posted by Rumble Man (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Aquaman ftw

#22 Posted by BigCimmerian (9124 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@LightningGod67: He never had Neptunes Trident when he had the water hand. The magic of both sort of makes this unfair. Especially since the trident counters magic and could therefore turn BA back to Teth

I doubt it could turn him back into Teth, Black Adam's magic is stronger than Triden's I think.

#23 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1:

The trident negates magic,since when???

Scans.....

I wont be able to find he one only showing I recall with the trident whihc is much more potent that just his water hand. But here is one of the water hand withering/ undoing magic

@BigCimmerian said:

@beatboks1 said:

@LightningGod67: He never had Neptunes Trident when he had the water hand. The magic of both sort of makes this unfair. Especially since the trident counters magic and could therefore turn BA back to Teth

I doubt it could turn him back into Teth, Black Adam's magic is stronger than Triden's I think.

BA's power comes from 5 ancient Egyptian God's who no longer have worshipers to give them power. The power of the trident comes from an Ancient Greek god's ( one of the three elder god's at that as in Zeus' brother not child) who created the Amazon race to continue worshiping them so their power would not diminish. If anything the trident's magic would be equal if not greater.

#24 Edited by SUNMAN (7269 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Aquaman's trident isn't something that lets him one-shot or give him an automatic win. Over the last few years he's gone up against several magical beings and his trident has not been used in the way your describing.

He'll put up a fight, but ultimately Adam's much stronger and faster, with better reaction time. He can end this without even getting hit by the trident. There are just a lot of ways for him to kill Aquaman here.

But Adam works for it. This fight isn't a stomp. I see the water hand as being more effective than the trident actually

#25 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

@beatboks1: Aquaman's trident isn't something that lets him one-shot or give him an automatic win. Over the last few years he's gone up against several magical beings and his trident has not been used in the way your describing.

He'll put up a fight, but ultimately Adam's much stronger and faster, with better reaction time. He can end this without even getting hit by the trident. There are just a lot of ways for him to kill Aquaman here.

But Adam works for it. This fight isn't a stomp. I see the water hand as being more effective than the trident actually

over the last few years the only time he's even carried a trident has been in the DCNu or Flashpoint ( leading into DCNu). That trident isn't the one I'm talking about. He never carried one prior to Flashpoint since the PAD run. That trident was the one with counter magic. OP stated pre 52 and with trident, ergo it's that trident since it's the only one he had in that era. To use feats of this era to say he doesn't use it when it doesn't do the same thing isn't in any way accurate.

#26 Posted by SUNMAN (7269 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@SUNMAN said:

@beatboks1: Aquaman's trident isn't something that lets him one-shot or give him an automatic win. Over the last few years he's gone up against several magical beings and his trident has not been used in the way your describing.

He'll put up a fight, but ultimately Adam's much stronger and faster, with better reaction time. He can end this without even getting hit by the trident. There are just a lot of ways for him to kill Aquaman here.

But Adam works for it. This fight isn't a stomp. I see the water hand as being more effective than the trident actually

over the last few years the only time he's even carried a trident has been in the DCNu or Flashpoint ( leading into DCNu). That trident isn't the one I'm talking about. He never carried one prior to Flashpoint since the PAD run. That trident was the one with counter magic. OP stated pre 52 and with trident, ergo it's that trident since it's the only one he had in that era. To use feats of this era to say he doesn't use it when it doesn't do the same thing isn't in any way accurate.

He carried a Trident in Brightest day, which was Pre-Flashpoint. It was his trident, and it was not shown to do all that you are describing

#27 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN: fair enough then. The only brightest day I got was the JSA/JLA issues because of the cross over. He never carried one for most of his last series after PAD left except in cover art, and he never carried one in JLA. More than likely whoever wrote the brightest day appearance didn't now about the Poseidon trident so there obviously is more than one potential trident pre 52.

#28 Posted by SUNMAN (7269 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: ok I'll take your word. Maybe you should clarify it in the OP. I have no opinion than since I'm not as familiar with this trident you keep talking about. Without the trident Aquman should lose. At this point I think Pre-Geoff Johns Aquaman is weaker than his current incarnation in terms of stats. The water hand would help against Black Adam, but won't win him the fight.

If you say the trident can do all this than maybe that gives him the win. I'm not that familiar with it. Some people would argue his speed and reaction time wouldn't allow for Aquaman to touch him. I don't really like that argument cause most flying bricks don't evade attacks like Flash all the time.

#29 Posted by thestarguy (371 posts) - - Show Bio

The Water Hand also had the ability to negate magic as well. So it's ability to dehydrate would most probably work on Black Adam, since his powers would not fully protect him from such an attack. Remember neither Black Adam or Captain Marvel are truly invulnerable, but just so strong and powerful that they are extremely resistant and difficult to kill. With these anti-magic advantages Aquaman is capable of affecting Black Adam to the point where his Physical stats could challenge Black Adam's.

#30 Posted by LightningGod67 (240 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:

@LightningGod67: He never had Neptunes Trident when he had the water hand. The magic of both sort of makes this unfair. Especially since the trident counters magic and could therefore turn BA back to Teth

Oh.
#31 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

@beatboks1 said:

@SexualLobster: @SUNMAN: You guy's do both know that the trident given him by Neptune for saving him from Hades is as powerful as Mjilnor right?

LIEEEES

No it's not. The trident was intended to go from Poseiden to his son Triton. When Triton betrays the god and Arthur saves him from Hades. Posieden killed his son and gave the trident to AM. The trident grants the wielder complete control over water in all forms ( including vapor and ice- Arthur can use it to control fogs, mists, rain, condensation, even the pressure on tectonic plates and cause earth quakes). It also counters and undoes all magic, has healing capabilities and can warp dimensions and allow dimensional travel

The story it was given to AM was this one - http://www.comicvine.com/aquaman-fish-tartarus/37-45139/

DAMN!

#32 Edited by BlackWind (7394 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@spiderbuck: BA would definitely stomp without the water hand and trident. With just the water hand he would win but may have to work for it. The trident however counters all magic and his powers come from magic so i just don't see how he can win. AM undoes his transformation and makes him mortal and then with the water hand simply drains him dry of any water for the kill. Considering that the trident allows him teleportation, energy manip, control over weather, the ability to even cause earth quakes, hell he can control the air in BA's lungs or the blood in his veins and simply have him beat himself to death. I suppose the trident is the only way he could even be in the match but it just seems a little unfair

The trident does that? Since when?

#33 Posted by ComicStooge (14755 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1:

The trident negates magic,since when???

Scans.....

It always did. Arthur has never really carried the trident ( well once IIRC). The use of it to negate his father Atlan's magic by Triton was how he killed him. Arthur IIRC only used it once after receiving it to face some old mage enemies of his father. There are a couple of times that Poseidon and Triton used it's power. It is however the only trdent that Arthur had pre 52 which is the version here. The current trident doesn't as far as i know because it isn't from the god's just ancient Atlantean weapon.

@ComicStooge: BA isn't that quick. It's not like he's Captain Marvel who is FTL. He's about half that and while there is a speed advantage i would not call it massive. Especially not against someone who can teleport which Arthur can do both with the trident and with the water hand (which by the way also has the ability to nullify magic though not to the Trident's degree - did nullify Tempest's magic)

I thought Shazam and Black Adam were exact physical equals...

#34 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@ComicStooge: A very common misconception that i get very tired of trying to correct.

Shazam's daughter Lady Blaze did a deal with the evil elder god Set when her father was choosing a new champion in an attempt to pervert his champoin.

The result is that while Shazam's magic starts the transformation BA's powers don't come from Shazam or the god's that power him.

BA's powers come from

  • Shu -(stamina): Nigh-invulnerable, and does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe (can survive unaided in space). Extremely resistant to magical attack, and effectively tireless.
  • Heru -(Horus - speed): Black Adam can fly, move, and fight at, at around Mach 500
  • Amon- strength
  • Zehuti - Access to godly level of knowledge, magical and mundane
  • Aton- enhances his physical abilities and invulnerability, and gives him godly resistance against magical attacks.
  • Mehen - godly degree of inner strength, including superhuman resistance to psychic manipulation, or any form of mind control.

You see the fact that two of the gods who power him give him strength and two give him invulnerability is why he is both stronger and more durable than Captain Marvel. He is however nowhere near as fast, his god of speed is not as well renowned for speed as Mercury. He is also has no where near the stamina of Atlas. Cap when his sister or Freddy power up becomes weaker for it. BA does not

#35 Edited by Raw_Material (3306 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman wins. His capabilities he acquires with the possession of his trident and water hand are unparalleled. He can take down Black Adam for sure.

#36 Edited by Raw_Material (3306 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman's ability with the water is like no other and will definitely defeat Black Adam at his best.

#37 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@ckuakini: Nice scans, couple of point though.

a couple of your scans are nu 52 and don't apply in this thread. the scans of AM belting Supes is actually a shape shifted MM who while he isn't lacking the only reason that stood a chance was because of superman's vulnerability to magic and the water hand is magic. Courtesy of Aton BA isn't. The scans of Arthurs TP which I agree is very impressive at it's highest end ( like when he overloaded teh brains of every thing in the ocean during his TP battle with Koryak) but as Mehen gives BA TP resistance won't really hold here either. MM has failed in his Tp attacks on BA, the only one I can think of who has succeeded is Brain Wave Jr. BW Jr's mental attack power is a lot stronger than MM's even if his defenses are crap by comparison and MM is generally stronger than Arthur. In a pure physical battle AQ doesn't stand a chance in a fight with BA. the only thing that gives him any sort of chance is the healing and teleportation of the hand and the greater magic of the Trident ( if it's that one)

#38 Posted by Raw_Material (3306 posts) - - Show Bio

Another scan of Aquaman lifting up a building block of Sub Deigo and saving a lot people:

#39 Posted by ComicStooge (14755 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@ComicStooge: A very common misconception that i get very tired of trying to correct.

Shazam's daughter Lady Blaze did a deal with the evil elder god Set when her father was choosing a new champion in an attempt to pervert his champoin.

The result is that while Shazam's magic starts the transformation BA's powers don't come from Shazam or the god's that power him.

BA's powers come from

  • Shu -(stamina): Nigh-invulnerable, and does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe (can survive unaided in space). Extremely resistant to magical attack, and effectively tireless.
  • Heru -(Horus - speed): Black Adam can fly, move, and fight at, at around Mach 500
  • Amon- strength
  • Zehuti - Access to godly level of knowledge, magical and mundane
  • Aton- enhances his physical abilities and invulnerability, and gives him godly resistance against magical attacks.
  • Mehen - godly degree of inner strength, including superhuman resistance to psychic manipulation, or any form of mind control.

You see the fact that two of the gods who power him give him strength and two give him invulnerability is why he is both stronger and more durable than Captain Marvel. He is however nowhere near as fast, his god of speed is not as well renowned for speed as Mercury. He is also has no where near the stamina of Atlas. Cap when his sister or Freddy power up becomes weaker for it. BA does not

Thank you for explaining, much appreciated,

#40 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I need some scans to prove Aquaman 's trident can negate the magic powers of a being like Black Adam.

#41 Posted by age_of_ultron_Prime2000 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam

#42 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1: I need some scans to prove Aquaman 's trident can negate the magic powers of a being like Black Adam.

I already explained the few issues he's used it I have no idea where they are. The trident negated the magic of Hades to allow him to get Poseiden out of Tatarus, and the magic of several of his fathers enemies ( sorcerers like his father). Triton used it to negate his fathers magic and kill him. I don't know where any of my PAD run of Aquaman is to supply those scans which is why I only gave the scan of the much lower ability of the water hand to negate magic. He used the trident to face at least 3 god's who are well above BA in magic, but it now seems that there are other appearances ( like apparently Brightest day) where he used a trident that was not magic in nature. I hadn't seen them so there is even doubt if the trident in questioned the one I mentioned. Forum rules state current unless otherwise stated. The OP only says pre new 52 so that would be Brightest day being the most recent.

#43 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

For reasons previously posted by beatboks I am going with AM FTW.

#44 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1: I need some scans to prove Aquaman 's trident can negate the magic powers of a being like Black Adam.

I already explained the few issues he's used it I have no idea where they are. The trident negated the magic of Hades to allow him to get Poseiden out of Tatarus, and the magic of several of his fathers enemies ( sorcerers like his father). Triton used it to negate his fathers magic and kill him. I don't know where any of my PAD run of Aquaman is to supply those scans which is why I only gave the scan of the much lower ability of the water hand to negate magic. He used the trident to face at least 3 god's who are well above BA in magic, but it now seems that there are other appearances ( like apparently Brightest day) where he used a trident that was not magic in nature. I hadn't seen them so there is even doubt if the trident in questioned the one I mentioned. Forum rules state current unless otherwise stated. The OP only says pre new 52 so that would be Brightest day being the most recent.

If that's the case,Aquaman stomps since BA 's powers are turned off.

#45 Posted by Bo88gdan (4868 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam

#46 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2702 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam

#47 Posted by 18hunt (2952 posts) - - Show Bio

BA stomps this, if AM goes in the water Adam would electrocute it

#48 Edited by Equonox (969 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1 said:

@Stronger said:

@beatboks1: I need some scans to prove Aquaman 's trident can negate the magic powers of a being like Black Adam.

I already explained the few issues he's used it I have no idea where they are. The trident negated the magic of Hades to allow him to get Poseiden out of Tatarus, and the magic of several of his fathers enemies ( sorcerers like his father). Triton used it to negate his fathers magic and kill him. I don't know where any of my PAD run of Aquaman is to supply those scans which is why I only gave the scan of the much lower ability of the water hand to negate magic. He used the trident to face at least 3 god's who are well above BA in magic, but it now seems that there are other appearances ( like apparently Brightest day) where he used a trident that was not magic in nature. I hadn't seen them so there is even doubt if the trident in questioned the one I mentioned. Forum rules state current unless otherwise stated. The OP only says pre new 52 so that would be Brightest day being the most recent.

If that's the case,Aquaman stomps since BA 's powers are turned off.

I'm not blaming you, because you didn't front the idea, but why does everyone think that Aquaman's trident's ability to negate magic --> taking away Adam's powers? Billy Batson was unable to do it in WWIII and he was the keeper of the Rock of Eternity at the time (IE was pretty much the master of magic). The reason is because Adam's powers are granted to him by the Egyptian gods, and, except for a loophole that Billy figured out in the end of WWIII, only they have the power to take his powers away. If Billy couldn't change BA back to Teth by himself, there's no way Aquaman could. I'm going w/ Adam here, simply because even w/out his magical lightning he would physically overpower and outmaneuver Arthur.

@18hunt said:

BA stomps this, if AM goes in the water Adam would electrocute it

True as well.

#49 Posted by beatboks1 (7630 posts) - - Show Bio

@Equonox:

The reason is because Adam's powers are granted to him by the Egyptian gods, and, except for a loophole that Billy figured out in the end of WWIII, only they have the power to take his powers away.

And yet Shazam himself was able to remove them twice in print last one was after his return from non existence. The magic of Shazam < than that of a god. The point seems to be moot, since it isn't the trident in question ( Thanks sunsun for pointing that out)

#50 Posted by Spartan101 (2582 posts) - - Show Bio

with trident and waterhad b/a aint winning it imo.