King of Atlantis Vs Speed Force
Rules/Settings
- In Character
- New 52 Version
- Aquaman Given 1 Week Prep Time
- Standard Gear Applies
- Starts 100 Yards Away (An Entire Football Field)
- BFR Not Allowed
- Win by KO/Submission
@BlackWind: @Dredeuced: But couldn't Aquaman tag him with his trident or cause an earthquake with it to yield Flash from accelerating? Does Flash have superhuman-level abilities besides his speed? Aquaman is also shielded with an armor and has really tough skin durability that can withstand immense pressure generated from extreme force.
His strength and senses are also unparalleled to human capabilities and can easily knock Flash off his feet with one blow. In the water, he's capable of reaching speeds of 150 mph while swimming and lift up to 100 tons under ten thousand more tons of ocean depths. Being outside the water, he's depicted to be even stronger with greater senses such as enhanced hearing, sight, and reflexes.
He's overall a brute powerhouse beyond compared to a human-level qualifications. Does Barry Allen possess such superhuman abilities besides being the Speed Force?
@ckuakini:
Its generally agreed upon that Flash has effective super strength due to his punches being able to hit at such extreme speeds, he can also vibrate so fast he "phases" through solid objects.
In short the few things Aquaman could do against Flash that would actually work, he wouldnt have time for.
@ckuakini said:
@BlackWind: @Dredeuced: But couldn't Aquaman tag him with his trident or cause an earthquake with it to yield Flash from accelerating? Does Flash have superhuman-level abilities besides his speed? Aquaman is also shielded with an armor and has really tough skin durability that can withstand immense pressure generated from extreme force.
His strength and senses are also unparalleled to human capabilities and can easily knock Flash off his feet with one blow. In the water, he's capable of reaching speeds of 150 mph while swimming and lift up to 100 tons under ten thousand more tons of ocean depths. Being outside the water, he's depicted to be even stronger with greater senses such as enhanced hearing, sight, and reflexes.
He's overall a brute powerhouse beyond compared to a human-level qualifications. Does Barry Allen possess such superhuman abilities besides being the Speed Force?
All of Barry's powers are from the Speed Force, but those powers include superhuman durability and superhuman striking strength, too. Aquaman literally could not hurt Barry if Barry didn't want him to, thanks to phasing, and Barry can most definitely not only hurt Aquaman, but do it a variety of ways, from punching him thousands of times in the face, to phasing his brain out of his head, to phasing his body into a large rock and unphasing him, to vortexing the air out of his body, etc. Aquaman has no practical way to tag Barry. Barry could also just Speed Force dump him the way he did Grodd, as Barry is the only one with the ability to leave the speed force of his own will.
@ckuakini said:
@Bruxae@Dredeuced: : Aquaman's able to withstand objects with great amount of pressure and force (as shown above) and about the Flash's speed; Aquaman has been able to catch eye on really fast objects even being able to dodge as well as tagging them. Like I said Aquaman has superhuman senses and reflexes, almost enhanced while on land. I believe Flash has the ability to knock him down couple times but will it be enough to submit or even knock out Aquaman? He's pretty much just running right through him hardly inflicting damage but just irritating the King of Atlantis. Aquaman can also just create an earthquake in time to stop Barry Allen from conflicting more blows. Although, this battle is bloodlusted and they're not in character Aquaman is also an expert tactician known to use his strategic advantage in combat if all goes wrong.
Barry Allen can process thousands to millions of scenarios a second, I wouldn't even register Aquaman's tactical knowledge as a threat when compared to Barry's speed mind. Aquaman's durability is fine but it's less about can he take one punch from Barry, and more about can he take thousands, or millions? Barry is near light speed bloodlusted, at the very least, and Aquaman doesn't have close to light speed reactions.
Earthquakes move at the speed of sound (they're a pressure wave, after all). That'd be slow motion to Barry and would hardly affect him. You also have given no counters to Barry's phasing (if bloodlusted, he can literally make aquaman explode by phasing through him) or Speed Force dump.
@Dredeuced: Aquaman's trident was derived by the first king of Atlantis which can be used for various attacks. Aquaman's trident can summon and manipulate water, control the weather as well as dispersing energy in the forms of bolts and forcefields. Although, the bolts will probably crank up the Flash even more he can use the forcefields to block some of the swift attacks of his if Aquaman's durability cannot withstand his blows. This blown up picture depicts Aquaman shattering a magical ice barrier surrounding Graves as Superman's heat vision didn't seem to cool it down.
If his trident does not seem too effective in this battle against the Flash he can always rely on his superhuman ability that makes him the unique individual he is and summon forth the ocean and marine life to stop the "unstoppable" Barry Allen. Can he run in water?
Okay, for one, there's no freaking way a shark is fast enough to catch someone moving at lightspeed. Secondly. the forcefield should not stop Barry's phasing, even if it's strong enough to prevent his attacks, thirdly, summoning the weather isn't the best against Barry. You may or may not know that one of his rogues is named the weather wizard and Barry said straight to his face that trying to hit him with lightning would never work because it's too slow for him.
This is New Earth versions, btw, which I'm pretty sure means new-52, so the pre-52 scans probably don't matter. Even if they did, Barry still trumps him with offensive phasing and light speed combat. The fight would literally be over before Aquaman could process a thought.
@Dredeuced: Aquaman is also capable of stopping superhuman speedsters like Barry Allen by connecting to the elements in their brain called the Basal Ganglia which is inherited from their marine ancestors and can yield them from running any further, and may cause seizures.
@Dredeuced said:
This is New Earth versions, btw, which I'm pretty sure means new-52, so the pre-52 scans probably don't matter. Even if they did, Barry still trumps him with offensive phasing and light speed combat. The fight would literally be over before Aquaman could process a thought.
Sorry about the fault, but I decided to switch it into a pre-52 and New 52 versions of the characters due to the unaccessible scans and feats for both combatants thus preventing a CIS.
@ckuakini said:
@Dredeuced: Aquaman is also capable of stopping superhuman speedsters like Barry Allen by connecting to the elements in their brain called the Basal Ganglia which is inherited from their marine ancestors and can yield them from running any further, and may cause seizures.
Irrelevant. A bloodlusted Barry has killed him, at light speed, before he can think. Zum may be fast, but he's definitely not as fast as Barry and definitely wasn't bloodlustedly trying to kill Aquaman in this scan. As I said, Barry has multiple ways to kill or BFR Aquaman before he can possibly think to use any of his powers. He's outright stated his attosecond thinking speed and pre-52 has multiple light speed feats.
@Dredeuced: As I mentioned before, Aquaman has defeated speedsters before but like you said, the settings are bloodlusted and he's been depicted to have multiple lightning speed feats with enhanced strength almost matched to superhuman levels due to his immense speed force. However, Aquaman is known to be very bloodlusted once he starts to get irritated, even more so when he can't catch the speedy gonzalez himself and will most likely go beast mode; using his telepathic abilities to get inside the mind of Flash or by summoning the entire body of water surrounding Long Island, crush every bone in Barry's body and flood the city, evidently stopping his run and phasing attacks. Water definitely slows down anyone no matter who you are, unless your a sea dwelling superhuman ;)
@ckuakini said:
@Dredeuced: As I mentioned before, Aquaman has defeated speedsters before but like you said, the settings are bloodlusted and he's been depicted to have multiple lightning speed feats with enhanced strength almost matched to superhuman levels due to his immense speed force. However, Aquaman is known to be very bloodlusted once he starts to get irritated, even more so when he can't catch the speedy gonzalez himself and will most likely go beast mode; using his telepathic abilities to get inside the mind of Flash or by summoning the entire body of water surrounding Long Island, crush every bone in Barry's body and flood the city, evidently stopping his run and phasing attacks. Water definitely slows down anyone no matter who you are, unless your a sea dwelling superhuman ;)
This is all interesting.
But like it's been repeated several times.
Barry would have killed Aquaman the moment the fight starts.
@ckuakini said:
@Dredeuced: As I mentioned before, Aquaman has defeated speedsters before but like you said, the settings are bloodlusted and he's been depicted to have multiple lightning speed feats with enhanced strength almost matched to superhuman levels due to his immense speed force. However, Aquaman is known to be very bloodlusted once he starts to get irritated, even more so when he can't catch the speedy gonzalez himself and will most likely go beast mode; using his telepathic abilities to get inside the mind of Flash or by summoning the entire body of water surrounding Long Island, crush every bone in Barry's body and flood the city, evidently stopping his run and phasing attacks. Water definitely slows down anyone no matter who you are, unless your a sea dwelling superhuman ;)
TP doesn't work on Barry, Just ask Grodd who is a more powerful TPer than Arthur It's because Barry brain works at a different rate ( he can speed it up etc). Also Dude, Barry runs fast enough to run on smoke or vapors, Water - Not a problem.
Oh and the scan of the tidal wave you keep throwing up in these threads isn't of Arthur summoning water. he summoned a school of whales who's caused the wave for him. Whales are no where near fast enough to accomplish that before Barry has finished him. The scan was from the issue he fought Superboy.
@Bruxae said:
@ckuakini:
Its generally agreed upon that Flash has effective super strength due to his punches being able to hit at such extreme speeds, he can also vibrate so fast he "phases" through solid objects.
In short the few things Aquaman could do against Flash that would actually work, he wouldnt have time for.
flash does not have super strength he just have powerful punches so he cant lift anything that would take super powers
@Bruxae said:
@jackofspades: Thats why I said "Effective" its not actual super strength, but works like it when attacking.
but it still not super strength like with wolverine and adamantium his bones are super tough and he can hit6 very hard but cant lift anything that needs super strength
@jackofspades said:
@Bruxae said:
@jackofspades: Thats why I said "Effective" its not actual super strength, but works like it when attacking.
but it still not super strength like with wolverine and adamantium his bones are super tough and he can hit6 very hard but cant lift anything that needs super strength
Ill say it a third and last time, I never said he had super strength.
@beatboks1: It happened in Issue #4 of Peter David's series, the "Arthur Goes Hawaiian" story line and yes he did summon the water and eventually drowned Superboy, remember? Then Dolphin and Garth took all the air out from inside of him while underwater, making Superboy submit, therefore having rights to see the Admiral at the naval base harbor where the battle took place nearby. He summoned the ocean and whales to rain down on him, but like you said Barry has been to run on vapor and would be able to dodge the drowning factor of it. However, he does have to endure the immense pressure and force of the ocean that will crush him against the surface and evidently slow him down. Underwater, Aquaman is capable of maneuvering around like no other being has ever done in the water and will definitely take out Flash if the battle ever takes place underwater (especially bloodlusted), which will most likely happen during the end of the battle considering the speedy feats that Barry possesses.
Again, as you mentioned before, Flash is somewhat immune to telepathic attacks being depicted to shift his thoughts faster than normal; as what happened during the Blackest Night, when Black Lantern Martian Manhunter tried telepathically controlling Barry. However, Aquaman is a very accomplished telepathic and has been able to catch speedsters and telepathic expertise in his TP control before as well as being able to eventually tag them by using his water capabilities and enhanced senses.
@beatboks1 said:
TP doesn't work on Barry, Just ask Grodd who is a more powerful TPer than Arthur It's because Barry brain works at a different rate ( he can speed it up etc). Also Dude, Barry runs fast enough to run on smoke or vapors, Water - Not a problem.
Oh and the scan of the tidal wave you keep throwing up in these threads isn't of Arthur summoning water. he summoned a school of whales who's caused the wave for him. Whales are no where near fast enough to accomplish that before Barry has finished him. The scan was from the issue he fought Superboy.
Does this paint a picture for you? Aquaman has tagged Flash before...Barry's IT!
He's has also been evenly matched against Deathstroke as well as getting the last blows in during battle.
He can also fly into the air, dodging every swift attack of Barry's, and eventually tiring him out. Then he'll cast upon thousands of tons of water to come crashing down on Flash, breaking every bone in his body and leaving him to drown. Knowing Aquaman, he'll probably scoop him out of the water or toss him out like he did with Superboy. Finished by KO without the use of the trident.
The OP says: "Both Pre New 52 and New 52 versions". What do you mean exactly?
Either way, Barry should win fairly easily. The New 52 version is underrated. He's got that speed of mind thing, allowing him to see all of the possible outcomes for the battle.
Edit:Putting a little more thought on the subject, I think Aquaman may have a good chance. By "Both Pre New 52 and New 52", I assume you mean that all of their feats and abilities are in game? Well, bare with me. Morals are on, meaning that Flash would most certainly not go straight for the kill. In that case, I still insist that Arthur would have a chance of using his telepathy to mess with Barry's basal ganglia.
Edit 2: Lol I have just noticed that they are bloodlusted and morals are off. Well, in that case, the fight should end rather quickly. Aquaman doesn't have much of a chance.
@ckuakini: He didn't summon the water at all. don't lie. The issue was number 3 not 4 ( that was when he fought Lobo not Supeboy) hook hand Arthur before he had either the water hand or the trident which give him the power. It also clearly stated how he managed the feat right here
If you want to try and use scans out of context then be prepared to be called on it. I have every SA/BA appearance of AQ and modern up to the end of version 5 of Aquaman.
Also your tag Flash scan was of Flash not even moving if you'd care to load the preceding pages.
@ckuakini said:
@beatboks1: It happened in Issue #4 of Peter David's series, the "Arthur Goes Hawaiian" story line and yes he did summon the water and eventually drowned Superboy, remember? Then Dolphin and Garth took all the air out from inside of him while underwater, making Superboy submit, therefore having rights to see the Admiral at the naval base harbor where the battle took place nearby. He summoned the ocean and whales to rain down on him, but like you said Barry has been to run on vapor and would be able to dodge the drowning factor of it. However, he does have to endure the immense pressure and force of the ocean that will crush him against the surface and evidently slow him down. Underwater, Aquaman is capable of maneuvering around like no other being has ever done in the water and will definitely take out Flash if the battle ever takes place underwater (especially bloodlusted), which will most likely happen during the end of the battle considering the speedy feats that Barry possesses.
Again, as you mentioned before, Flash is somewhat immune to telepathic attacks being depicted to shift his thoughts faster than normal; as what happened during the Blackest Night, when Black Lantern Martian Manhunter tried telepathically controlling Barry. However, Aquaman is a very accomplished telepathic and has been able to catch speedsters and telepathic expertise in his TP control before as well as being able to eventually tag them by using his water capabilities and enhanced senses.
@beatboks1 said:
TP doesn't work on Barry, Just ask Grodd who is a more powerful TPer than Arthur It's because Barry brain works at a different rate ( he can speed it up etc). Also Dude, Barry runs fast enough to run on smoke or vapors, Water - Not a problem.
Oh and the scan of the tidal wave you keep throwing up in these threads isn't of Arthur summoning water. he summoned a school of whales who's caused the wave for him. Whales are no where near fast enough to accomplish that before Barry has finished him. The scan was from the issue he fought Superboy.
Does this paint a picture for you? Aquaman has tagged Flash before...Barry's IT!
Dude, none of this, literally none of it, applies to a bloodlusted Barry. Aquaman can start under water for all I care, Barry blitzes him at Light speed before he can even think to use all his powers, phases through him, and he explodes. Aquaman's got no defense for violent molecular disintegration.
@Dredeuced: Are you defending Barry new-52 this hard? I don't really think he's going to win 100 percent. He's just starting to learn his powers.
He can't use IMP's. Long Island is FULL of water so this is a huge advantage for Aquaman. There's sea creatures all around the place and I'm pretty sure he can tank Flash punches. Didn't he take a rocket in new New-52?
He has more durability feats I belive. So the IMP tactic wont really work here since Flash hasn't done anything like that yet. Flash also doesn't heal as fast as Wally does(according to feats, new-52).
I would say that him and Grodd kind of went toe-to-toe. He punched Grodd in teh face and nothing really happened. And Aquaman has a higher durability.
Pre-52 Barry vs Pre-52 Aquaman
New-52 Barry vs New-52 Aquaman....Undecided. This is the first time I said this about Flash.
What speed combat feats does Barry has?
Edit: Or where you talking about Pre-52 for both characters? Or New-52 for both characters? I just edited it again. It says win by KO/Submission. So Flash molecular disrupton wont count I think since that's killing.
@Wardemon32 said:
@Dredeuced: Are you defending Barry new-52 this hard? I don't really think he's going to win 100 percent. He's just starting to learn his powers.
He can't use IMP's. Long Island is FULL of water so this is a huge advantage for Aquaman. There's sea creatures all around the place and I'm pretty sure he can tank Flash punches. Didn't he take a rocket in new New-52?
He has more durability feats I belive. So the IMP tactic wont really work here since Flash hasn't done anything like that yet. Flash also doesn't heal as fast as Wally does(according to feats, new-52).
I would say that him and Grodd kind of went toe-to-toe. He punched Grodd in teh face and nothing really happened. And Aquaman has a higher durability.
Pre-52 Barry vs Pre-52 Aquaman
New-52 Barry vs New-52 Aquaman....Undecided. This is the first time I said this about Flash.
What speed combat feats does Barry has?
Edit: Or where you talking about Pre-52 for both characters? Or New-52 for both characters? I just edited it again. It says win by KO/Submission. So Flash molecular disrupton wont count I think since that's killing.
Dodging lightning, outmaneuvering Omega Beams (which Superman was not capable of). Being incredibly hard to hit for Superman while intentionally trying to keep him contained in melee range.
It doesn't matter, though. Aquaman can't do crap about Barry's phasing and Barry can kill him while phased. Bloodlusted Barry stomps.
@Dredeuced: Don't forget he also had an entire fight with Supergirl that took place in the span of a few seconds, in which he tanked not one, but two hits from her; one of which would have killed him had he not vibrated for increased durability. Kara was struggling to keep up the entire time as well. Barry wasn't even trying to hurt her, but she was pretty mad.
@Dredeuced: No, I'm not saying that he CANT kill Aquaman. I'm just saying that wont count in the thread because the OP says "Win by KO/ Submission". Him phasing would be death. The thing is Flash is lacking:
While Aquaman has:
Flash also went down with a knee attack to Supergirl. If it was bloodlusted Aquaman can just bring all the sea life to help him while he's fighting Barry. Barry doesn't have any striking feats as of yet. He didn't really hurt Grodd when he hit him(keep in mind he was going super speed also). So Flash isn't putting down Aquaman with one punch. And you can also say Aquaman takes the fight to the water. Huge advantage also since Flash needs to breathe and there's no 1 hit punch.
@Wardemon32: Barry didn't go down from a knee attack from Supergirl. And he wasn't even trying to fight her.
Either way, there's still no reason Barry can't just phase through him or just BFR him into the Speed Force and be done with it.
I don't even know why we're entertaining the idea that Aquaman can actually hit Barry given this scenario.
@Wardemon32 said:
@Dredeuced: No, I'm not saying that he CANT kill Aquaman. I'm just saying that wont count in the thread because the OP says "Win by KO/ Submission". Him phasing would be death. The thing is Flash is lacking:
- IMP's
- Enough durability feats(he did take the finger flick by Superman and flew to the car hard but, that not enough)
- Phasing to kill wont work in this thread because the OP basically says it
While Aquaman has:
- Sent Superman flying with one punch
- That awesome pic of him with him bringing sea life to the battle(keep in mind this is Long Island)
- Taken a hit from Wonder Woman
Flash also went down with a knee attack to Supergirl. If it was bloodlusted Aquaman can just bring all the sea life to help him while he's fighting Barry. Barry doesn't have any striking feats as of yet. He didn't really hurt Grodd when he hit him(keep in mind he was going super speed also). So Flash isn't putting down Aquaman with one punch. And you can also say Aquaman takes the fight to the water. Huge advantage also since Flash needs to breathe and there's no 1 hit punch.
How is aquatic life going to hit someone intangible? Also I'm pretty sure Death counts as a knock out. Regardless he can blow off all of his limbs and force him to give up that way if you want to be really technical. Aquaman should have absolutely zero chance of hitting someone who can phase and move at light speed, superman punch or not. There's absolutely no way Aquaman stands the slightest chance in hell against a bloodlusted Flash, even New-52 Barry.
@Dredeuced: If that's teh case how is Flash going to beat Aquaman if Aquaman decides to bring the fight under-water? New-52 Flash hasn't been shown to run outer space without needing to breathe so he wont be able to breathe underwater
@beatboks1 said:
He didn't summon the water at all. don't lie. The issue was number 3 not 4 ( that was when he fought Lobo not Supeboy) hook hand Arthur before he had either the water hand or the trident which give him the power. It also clearly stated how he managed the feat right here
If you want to try and use scans out of context then be prepared to be called on it. I have every SA/BA appearance of AQ and modern up to the end of version 5 of Aquaman.
Also your tag Flash scan was of Flash not even moving if you'd care to load the preceding pages.
I meant to say issue #3, and this is before Aquaman even had the powers that derived from his water hand and trident. Imagine his capabilities now that he doesn't need to use his telepathy to command the marine life to create tidal waves but instead just summon the water through his trident. However, with his water hand, he's capable of creating almost any water hauling construct as well as possessing substantial strength and extra abilities.
And with this he can command the marine life to put Flash out of existence using his telepathy.
If the marine life don't seem too effective, Aquaman can always use his telepathy directly on Flash knowing how he's the one of the greatest being, an expertise in TP powers and can find that element in your brain inherited by marine ancestors to control him.
I still haven't even touched up on the powers the trident possesses yet!
@beatboks1: No it says "Both Pre-52 & New 52 Versions"
& is and, & is not with. No-where does it say "....feat's allowed also".
That means your supposed to argue both New-52 and Pre-52. It says versions so your going to talk about both. No-one said anything about combining the feats.
You've been living for how many years and you didn't know & actually was another way to say and? Like the name
"Barnes & Nobles". You say Barnes and Nobles not, Barnes With Nobles.
May I ask why are you try to address me with flase information?
@ckuakini: Why do you think Aquaman can react to Barry? I don't understand this. Aquaman would be dead the moment the fight starts.
@Wardemon32: We have seen Barry put on the Flash suit and super speed underwater, although only for a few moments. And considering he's using both New 52 and Pre-52 feats...
@xeon1cs: I do know a lot about Flash. I know what your talking about and I never say Flash ever loses. But, I'm not going to sit here abd defend him when I know there's about 50/50 chance he will win. Dereduced is good at backing up Flash so I decided to coutner what he was saying since he was saying "Flash Stomps" which isn't entirely true.
"Barry put on the Flash suit and super speed underwater, although only for a few moments. And considering he's using both New 52 and Pre-52 feats"
Barry new-52 and pre-52 have different abilities to a certain extent so you can't just combine them. That would be like saying that Pre-52 can see into the future(basically) like New-52 Barry since their the same character.
While I'm talking based off of New 52 and Pre-52 as seperate characters. I already said that Barry wins Pre-52 but, Flash doesn't stomp for New-52. I did say that they both have a chance of winning while he thinks it's a stomp.
Now this all connects becase Flash only has a few second to minutes to surivive. Aquaman is fast udnerwater and isn't going down with one hit, even if it was bloodlusted Barry since he doesn't have enough New-52 feats to say he will win. either he drowns or retreats. Flash his Grodd ON LAND and it didn't phase him. You can say that Aquaman had higher durability. So if Flash punches aquaman on land he still wont go down. And if he's about to there's always water there. Either way he has an advantage both on land and water since this is Long Island were talking about.
@Wardemon32 said:
@Dredeuced: If that's teh case how is Flash going to beat Aquaman if Aquaman decides to bring the fight under-water? New-52 Flash hasn't been shown to run outer space without needing to breathe so he wont be able to breathe underwater
It's irrelevant? Barry can kill him in nanoseconds. Hardly has to hold his breath, even if the fight started with Aquaman underwater and the condition was that Barry had to fight under water, he could literally create a cyclone large enough to encircle Arthur (who can only move at 200 miles per hour, so he's a statue to Flash), and then beat him to death or blow off his limbs or whatever he wants. They're not even in the same ballpark, it's a stomp.
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