aquaman and wonder woman vs fantastic four

• Morals are on/new 52 dc
• Random encounter
• Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation

nobody

Diana is very fast... If you don't allow speedblitz, then Sue could beat her with a force field in her brain, but otherwise she blitzes them(butI could be wrong since Sue has got pretty good reaction time feats)

@Veitha said:

Diana is very fast... If you don't allow speedblitz, then Sue could beat her with a force field in her brain, but otherwise she blitzes them(butI could be wrong since Sue has got pretty good reaction time feats)

i think it could go both ways

The only real threat is Sue and I think that Wonder Woman would be able to take her.

AM could solo the boys

@charlieboy said:

The only real threat is Sue and I think that Wonder Woman would be able to take her.

what about human torch he could take out aquaman

While the FF4 can operate as a powerful unit working together, Namor can often give them enough trouble on his own.

FF4 do have the potential to pull this off, but I'm gonna bet on Diana and Aquaman for the win in a tough battle.

Force field to the brain? Really? So invisible woman can potentially win against every being that has a brain?

Aquaman could potentially solo, adding wonder woman is almost overkill

@AdamtheSubmariner said:

Aquaman could potentially solo, adding wonder woman is almost overkill

how is AM going to get past sue shields

I am not too sure but i think sue's shields have blocked tp attacks, but as w/ most marvel vs dc threads, the blitz wins it for DC. W/o the blitz i think Sue will be the ff's key player.

Gonna go with Wonder Woman and Aquaman; both are complete powerhouses and if it's standard weapons on, they're definitely gonna get a 10 out of 10 win on this debate. Aquaman having the first king's trident made of Atlantean artifacts and WW wielding her swords and Lasso of Truth to conflict some damage. However, even though FF does have their own powerhouse The Thing, both Wonder Chick and Aqua Guy are fully capable of taking him on, individually and have defeated the likes of stronger adversaries. Plus, WW and Aquaman have much greater feats and superhuman abilities, which they inherited and defeated Darkseid in their first battle fought together alongside the rest of the 'Big Seven' Justice League.

Aquaman and Wonder Woman ftw

fantastic 4 with ease the thing can match strength with wonderwoman or aquaman the thing has beaten namor thor and the hulk before which means if he cuts loose on either of these 2 they will have there hands full.

reed richards can't be hurt to bad by either of them

humantorch will take down aquaman in seconds.

and sue could beat either of them solo with ease the way i see this going is that human torch and the thing take aguaman the thing and aquaman trades punches pretty evenly until johny dries aquaman up then the thing knocks him out cold.

reed and sue take on wonderwoman with reed distracting wonderwoman for half a second sue puts her down and reed can easly do so because wonderwoman can't hurt him that bad.

@comic_book_fan said:

fantastic 4 with ease the thing can match strength with wonderwoman or aquaman the thing has beaten namor thor and the hulk before which means if he cuts loose on either of these 2 they will have there hands full.

reed richards can't be hurt to bad by either of them

humantorch will take down aquaman in seconds.

and sue could beat either of them solo with ease the way i see this going is that human torch and the thing take aguaman the thing and aquaman trades punches pretty evenly until johny dries aquaman up then the thing knocks him out cold.

reed and sue take on wonderwoman with reed distracting wonderwoman for half a second sue puts her down and reed can easly do so because wonderwoman can't hurt him that bad.

I agree the scenario you've established isn't out of the question & those that are saying Sue is the only true threat, are underestimating the other members and what they bring to the table.

The pressure they can apply with Torch putting on the heat and Reed restraining Team 1, while Sue's offensive/defensive shields are in effect, do have the potential to give Ben the opening he needs to get in some Clobberin Time.

But none of this is happening with ease. While Thing can clearly dish it out and both WW & AM would be wise to avoid getting tagged by a bruiser like Grimm ... at the end of the day, he doesn't quite match up to Diana in strength. He may control a brawl with Aquaman on his own ... but Diana is upper tier in the ballpark of Thor & Superman levels. Her vast speed and skill is beyond anyone on the FF4. With the exception in speed being a tough call, as far as Sue's mental "force" reflexes. Diana's arsenal of divine weaponry has to be accounted for as well. If she summoned Zeus lightning with the Aegis, she could quickly shrug off any attempts of Reed trying to slow her down, then make her way to Sue. She's arguably powerful enough to cause Sue strain and shatter her barriers. But Sue is a powerhouse who can go on the offensive and keep Diana at bay.

One could argue that Aquaman may hold his own, better than given credit. He shares similarities with the Sub-Mariner, and Namor has handled that group on his own in the past. Although Namor is faster in my opinion, when combining speed with the ability of flight that Aquaman lacks. Being grounded will leave him more vulnerable to attacks from above by Torch. In that situation he may go down first but much depends on how they match up. If Diana decides to blitz Torch fast enough from the start, then the threat is dealt with that takes the heat off Aquaman.

Reeds durability is inconsistent. At times he's absorbed blunt trauma punishment from class 100 opponents. At other times he's been beaten into submission, leaving him deflated like a balloon, by those who are capable of strength exceeding well beyond that mark. Though he shouldn't be taken lightly, as I've seen him bind & restrain several opponents at once who could be considered on par with Thing. When increasing his mass or density of his fists, he's struck with enough force to drop Thing & crush Doom in a slugfest. He's got great reach advantage and some underestimate him in a physical encounter because they tend to focus on his genius.

At any rate, this has the makings of a hard fought match.

By the way, when did Thing beat Thor? If you don't mind, I'd really like to see scans of this.

The closest I've ever seen him come, is in an encounter when he was mind controlled and Thor was trying to talk Ben down, while barely even fighting back. Thing got in a few solid hits, but Thor was tanking the shots and basically letting Thing hit him ... because he feared he might hurt him. Thor never got KO'd, and the fight ended with Thor restraining Thing until he snapped out of it.

If you have something I'm missing, please post. Appreciate it man.

@MzombieX said:

@comic_book_fan said:

fantastic 4 with ease the thing can match strength with wonderwoman or aquaman the thing has beaten namor thor and the hulk before which means if he cuts loose on either of these 2 they will have there hands full.

reed richards can't be hurt to bad by either of them

humantorch will take down aquaman in seconds.

and sue could beat either of them solo with ease the way i see this going is that human torch and the thing take aguaman the thing and aquaman trades punches pretty evenly until johny dries aquaman up then the thing knocks him out cold.

reed and sue take on wonderwoman with reed distracting wonderwoman for half a second sue puts her down and reed can easly do so because wonderwoman can't hurt him that bad.

I agree the scenario you've established isn't out of the question & those that are saying Sue is the only true threat, are underestimating the other members and what they bring to the table.

The pressure they can apply with Torch putting on the heat and Reed restraining Team 1, while Sue's offensive/defensive shields are in effect, do have the potential to give Ben the opening he needs to get in some Clobberin Time.

But none of this is happening with ease. While Thing can clearly dish it out and both WW & AM would be wise to avoid getting tagged by a bruiser like Grimm ... at the end of the day, he doesn't quite match up to Diana in strength. He may control a brawl with Aquaman on his own ... but Diana is upper tier in the ballpark of Thor & Superman levels. Her vast speed and skill is beyond anyone on the FF4. With the exception in speed being a tough call, as far as Sue's mental "force" reflexes. Diana's arsenal of divine weaponry has to be accounted for as well. If she summoned Zeus lightning with the Aegis, she could quickly shrug off any attempts of Reed trying to slow her down, then make her way to Sue. She's arguably powerful enough to cause Sue strain and shatter her barriers. But Sue is a powerhouse who can go on the offensive and keep Diana at bay.

One could argue that Aquaman may hold his own, better than given credit. He shares similarities with the Sub-Mariner, and Namor has handled that group on his own in the past. Although Namor is faster in my opinion, when combining speed with the ability of flight that Aquaman lacks. Being grounded will leave him more vulnerable to attacks from above by Torch. In that situation he may go down first but much depends on how they match up. If Diana decides to blitz Torch fast enough from the start, then the threat is dealt with that takes the heat off Aquaman.

Reeds durability is inconsistent. At times he's absorbed blunt trauma punishment from class 100 opponents. At other times he's been beaten into submission, leaving him deflated like a balloon, by those who are capable of strength exceeding well beyond that mark. Though he shouldn't be taken lightly, as I've seen him bind & restrain several opponents at once who could be considered on par with Thing. When increasing his mass or density of his fists, he's struck with enough force to drop Thing & crush Doom in a slugfest. He's got great reach advantage and some underestimate him in a physical encounter because they tend to focus on his genius.

At any rate, this has the makings of a hard fought match.

By the way, when did Thing beat Thor? If you don't mind, I'd really like to see scans of this.

The closest I've ever seen him come, is in an encounter when he was mind controlled and Thor was trying to talk Ben down, while barely even fighting back. Thing got in a few solid hits, but Thor was tanking the shots and basically letting Thing hit him ... because he feared he might hurt him. Thor never got KO'd, and the fight ended with Thor restraining Thing until he snapped out of it.

If you have something I'm missing, please post. Appreciate it man.

i think maybe the team teamwork would be key here

@MzombieX said:

@comic_book_fan said:

fantastic 4 with ease the thing can match strength with wonderwoman or aquaman the thing has beaten namor thor and the hulk before which means if he cuts loose on either of these 2 they will have there hands full.

reed richards can't be hurt to bad by either of them

humantorch will take down aquaman in seconds.

and sue could beat either of them solo with ease the way i see this going is that human torch and the thing take aguaman the thing and aquaman trades punches pretty evenly until johny dries aquaman up then the thing knocks him out cold.

reed and sue take on wonderwoman with reed distracting wonderwoman for half a second sue puts her down and reed can easly do so because wonderwoman can't hurt him that bad.

I agree the scenario you've established isn't out of the question & those that are saying Sue is the only true threat, are underestimating the other members and what they bring to the table.

The pressure they can apply with Torch putting on the heat and Reed restraining Team 1, while Sue's offensive/defensive shields are in effect, do have the potential to give Ben the opening he needs to get in some Clobberin Time.

But none of this is happening with ease. While Thing can clearly dish it out and both WW & AM would be wise to avoid getting tagged by a bruiser like Grimm ... at the end of the day, he doesn't quite match up to Diana in strength. He may control a brawl with Aquaman on his own ... but Diana is upper tier in the ballpark of Thor & Superman levels. Her vast speed and skill is beyond anyone on the FF4. With the exception in speed being a tough call, as far as Sue's mental "force" reflexes. Diana's arsenal of divine weaponry has to be accounted for as well. If she summoned Zeus lightning with the Aegis, she could quickly shrug off any attempts of Reed trying to slow her down, then make her way to Sue. She's arguably powerful enough to cause Sue strain and shatter her barriers. But Sue is a powerhouse who can go on the offensive and keep Diana at bay.

One could argue that Aquaman may hold his own, better than given credit. He shares similarities with the Sub-Mariner, and Namor has handled that group on his own in the past. Although Namor is faster in my opinion, when combining speed with the ability of flight that Aquaman lacks. Being grounded will leave him more vulnerable to attacks from above by Torch. In that situation he may go down first but much depends on how they match up. If Diana decides to blitz Torch fast enough from the start, then the threat is dealt with that takes the heat off Aquaman.

Reeds durability is inconsistent. At times he's absorbed blunt trauma punishment from class 100 opponents. At other times he's been beaten into submission, leaving him deflated like a balloon, by those who are capable of strength exceeding well beyond that mark. Though he shouldn't be taken lightly, as I've seen him bind & restrain several opponents at once who could be considered on par with Thing. When increasing his mass or density of his fists, he's struck with enough force to drop Thing & crush Doom in a slugfest. He's got great reach advantage and some underestimate him in a physical encounter because they tend to focus on his genius.

At any rate, this has the makings of a hard fought match.

By the way, when did Thing beat Thor? If you don't mind, I'd really like to see scans of this.

The closest I've ever seen him come, is in an encounter when he was mind controlled and Thor was trying to talk Ben down, while barely even fighting back. Thing got in a few solid hits, but Thor was tanking the shots and basically letting Thing hit him ... because he feared he might hurt him. Thor never got KO'd, and the fight ended with Thor restraining Thing until he snapped out of it.

If you have something I'm missing, please post. Appreciate it man.

what about sue

Thing is nowhere near the strength or skill class that Wonder Woman is. FF really have little chance here. 9/10 for team 1. Team two gets that one win because they might get lucky.

@Pokeysteve said:

Thing is nowhere near the strength or skill class that Wonder Woman is. FF really have little chance here. 9/10 for team 1. Team two gets that one win because they might get lucky.

people can not tell me how dc would get pass sue shields

@Evil Incarnate said:

@jackofspades said:

@Pokeysteve said:

Thing is nowhere near the strength or skill class that Wonder Woman is. FF really have little chance here. 9/10 for team 1. Team two gets that one win because they might get lucky.

people can not tell me how dc would get pass sue shields

Unless somethings have changed with regards to Sue's powers IIRC they're directly linked to her mentally and with enough damage can and have caused her pain. Unless this is now changed then a few hits from someone of Aquaman and Wonder Woman's strength level will definitely hurt her.

Also I'm confused about people somehow stating that The Thing is stronger than either of the DC team. No just no.

first they would have to get to sue which would be hard because her shields have stood up to the hulk and i don't think thing is stronger then WW maybe aquaman

@jackofspades said:

@Pokeysteve said:

Thing is nowhere near the strength or skill class that Wonder Woman is. FF really have little chance here. 9/10 for team 1. Team two gets that one win because they might get lucky.

people can not tell me how dc would get pass sue shields

She can't hold them forever. Sooner or later they'll fail. I guess the answer to your question is "with patience".

@Evil Incarnate said:

@jackofspades said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@jackofspades said:

@Pokeysteve said:

Thing is nowhere near the strength or skill class that Wonder Woman is. FF really have little chance here. 9/10 for team 1. Team two gets that one win because they might get lucky.

people can not tell me how dc would get pass sue shields

Unless somethings have changed with regards to Sue's powers IIRC they're directly linked to her mentally and with enough damage can and have caused her pain. Unless this is now changed then a few hits from someone of Aquaman and Wonder Woman's strength level will definitely hurt her.

Also I'm confused about people somehow stating that The Thing is stronger than either of the DC team. No just no.

first they would have to get to sue which would be hard because her shields have stood up to the hulk and i don't think thing is stronger then WW maybe aquaman

That's not outside Diana's level of strength. In fact someone of Diana's strength coupled with her speed pounding on her shield should do the job quite nicely and I never specifically said you believed Thing to be stronger than the DC team I was just stating it, my apologies for not clarifying that.

is there proof that someone of WW level of strength could break sue shields

@Pokeysteve said:

@jackofspades said:

@Pokeysteve said:

Thing is nowhere near the strength or skill class that Wonder Woman is. FF really have little chance here. 9/10 for team 1. Team two gets that one win because they might get lucky.

people can not tell me how dc would get pass sue shields

She can't hold them forever. Sooner or later they'll fail. I guess the answer to your question is "with patience".

is there proof that someone of WW level of strength could break sue shields

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: @jackofspades:

Here's Thor wailing on her until it's too much for her.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir85c-StrikingPower.jpg

Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840835-invisiblewoman3_super.jpg

WWH

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840875-invisiblewoman8_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/41654/850952-hulk_smash_puny_susan_super.jpg

well where do i start,for one why all the old scans sue was not as powerful as she is now and WWH is a good scan but wonder woman is no where near WWH level of power so all those scan means nothing

@Evil Incarnate: and here a little bi of the power sue has with her shields

her shields cut black bolts voice off power of sue storm

I think the F4 can put up a better fight than most are giving credit for. Doesn't Johnny have the Cosmic Control Rod implanted in his arm or something? Plus we're talking New52 Wondy and Arthur, they lack the insane feats of their PreNew52 counterparts.

@jackofspades said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: @jackofspades:

Here's Thor wailing on her until it's too much for her.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir85c-StrikingPower.jpg

Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840835-invisiblewoman3_super.jpg

WWH

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840875-invisiblewoman8_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/41654/850952-hulk_smash_puny_susan_super.jpg

well where do i start,for one why all the old scans sue was not as powerful as she is now and WWH is a good scan but wonder woman is no where near WWH level of power so all those scan means nothing

Lol

@Evil Incarnate said:

@jackofspades said:

@Evil Incarnate: and here a little bi of the power sue has with her shields

her shields cut black bolts voice off power of sue storm

Where should I start?

1. The first scan Black Bolt was completely still when she pulled that trick. What makes you think either of the DC team would stay still long enough for her to pull off a feat like that?

2. With in that same set of scans as she attempts to then block the damn off even Johnny and Reed tell her it's too dangerous because she's strained.

3. The third heart scan is impressive, but once again falls to the DC team being still long enough for her to pull off such a feat.

4. Holding the Thing in the Hulk in place isn't impressive for the fact of the matter that neither one of them is attempting to escape. The point is to prove that Sue could mentally sustain the damage that wailing on her shield would inflict upon her and this scan doesn't show either of the two attempting to do so.

5. The scan of her hitting the Hulk is to mean what? No one if I recall said that it was impossible for her to hit either of the DC team and knock them on their ass and that's all she did and the Hulk gingerly got back up. Not impressive for this match up.

6. The scan of her with Gladiator can be summed up in the same as what I posted above about the Hulk except with the fact that Gladiator was shown to be weaker then and the fact that his powers are directly related to his self confidence and having that self confidence diminished because Mr. Fantastic stood up to a blast of his heat vision and then being hit does little to prove your point. Also IIRC this scan is also apart of the scan of Gladiator that I posted earlier in which he broke free of her shield.

I'm not saying that Invisible Woman or the Fantastic Four aren't powerful within their own right, but the scans you've posted aren't going to help them outright in this fight.

Also and please don't take this to directly mean you, but for the people that are somehow going with the "She puts a bubble in their head" scenario I then ask what's to stop Diana from killing them? New 52 Wonder Woman isn't beyond killing at all add to the fact that the Thing looks like a golem and if Johnny if in his flame on mode what to make her not think they're demons of some sort and kill them with her sword?

1. why do you think her powers work like in which she has to catch them for it to work,her shield just appear 2.and again that was a older sue she is way more powerful and at the time she still did it 3.see answer one 4.if you read what the hulk said that he was trap 5.how powerful she is that she can hit the hulk with that kind of force 6.gladiator was weak because he could not get through she shields.and in this fight WW or IW will not use killing blows its morals on in this fight

@Pokeysteve said:

@jackofspades said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: @jackofspades:

Here's Thor wailing on her until it's too much for her.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir85c-StrikingPower.jpg

Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840835-invisiblewoman3_super.jpg

WWH

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840875-invisiblewoman8_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/41654/850952-hulk_smash_puny_susan_super.jpg

well where do i start,for one why all the old scans sue was not as powerful as she is now and WWH is a good scan but wonder woman is no where near WWH level of power so all those scan means nothing

Lol

oh you can lol but with out proof i will get the last lol

team 1 takes it, WW is a bit too much for F4 to handle.

@jackofspades said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@jackofspades said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: @jackofspades:

Here's Thor wailing on her until it's too much for her.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir85c-StrikingPower.jpg

Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840835-invisiblewoman3_super.jpg

WWH

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840875-invisiblewoman8_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/41654/850952-hulk_smash_puny_susan_super.jpg

well where do i start,for one why all the old scans sue was not as powerful as she is now and WWH is a good scan but wonder woman is no where near WWH level of power so all those scan means nothing

Lol

oh you can lol but with out proof i will get the last lol

Her assisting in moving the Earth and the Moon (not at the same time) Should suffice. WWH never showed anything better. Even if you low ball her she's still moving billions - trillions of tons.

@Evil Incarnate said:

@jackofspades said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@jackofspades said:

@Evil Incarnate said:

@Pokeysteve: @jackofspades:

Here's Thor wailing on her until it's too much for her.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Mjolnir/ThorMjolnir85c-StrikingPower.jpg

Gladiator

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840835-invisiblewoman3_super.jpg

WWH

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3853/840875-invisiblewoman8_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/41654/850952-hulk_smash_puny_susan_super.jpg

well where do i start,for one why all the old scans sue was not as powerful as she is now and WWH is a good scan but wonder woman is no where near WWH level of power so all those scan means nothing

Lol

oh you can lol but with out proof i will get the last lol

WBH didn't really do anything mildly impressive. He beat a bunch of people we already knew he was capable of beating and jobbed around with a few others and vice versa.

really this is not impressive

@Evil Incarnate:

1. Because Wonder Woman is faster than her so then how would IW catch her?/ new 52 WW has never shown that kind of speed in a fight

2. Then why use the scan?/ the same reason you did your old ones

3. See answer one./ see answer one

4. He was trapped, but did he in any of the scans attempt to breakthrough the barrier? For all we know he could have simply been attempting to walk forward towards Thing and couldn't move. Being trapped doesn't equate to him wailing on it to break free./ one thing they was in the middle of fighting so she had to stop them with force

5. Spider-Man has hit the Hulk too and Wonder Woman has been hit by Deathstroke. It's not whether or not they can hit them it's whether or not they'll stay down./ and WW has shown poor durability

6. Gladiator attempted to use his heat vision on Mr. Fantastic and Sue shielded him. Upon seeing this Gladiators confidence diminished and Sue sucker punched him./ gladiator did alot more than you say thats why he got weaken because he was throwing everything at reed and was not hurting him at all,and that takes power from sue

I'd say team one edges because of WW's more all round skill set, she is fast and strong enough to edge out the team with Aqua-man's help. Give Reed prep that changes everything

Sue is very strong, I don't think that they could break her shields:

In the first scan she holds a shield around Old-Atlantis for 24 hours, withstanding against continuous bombardment for an entire day; in the second scan she's able to knock out Namor with a single punch without any kind of effort(and that's Namor underwater, he's taken hits from Hulk); in the third scan she can resist to the heat of a supernova without effort; in the fourth and in the fift she takes blasts from both Ragnarock and SilverSurfer; and in the third scan she freezes the Thing and Doom with ease.

She would at least be able to KO Aquaman at the start of the battle, while WW would be more diffucult because of her speed

@Veitha: You talked about the bombardment and it made me think. How much power (in kiloton levels) can WW's punch deliver? Couldn't she deliver punchs as powerful as an asteroid hitting Earth? I'm confused with the physics behind this.

Morals only last as long as you realize that these people are trying to whoop your butt. when someone is trying to hurt you morals don't really effect people the way that we pretend it does on here. if she is being attacked and felt like her brother or husband was about to get pounded she would act out. Sue could take them both