#1 Posted by TheQuestingBeast (57 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins? I know they have relatively the same abilities as far as intangibility and shapeshifting goes, but i really couldn't tell who wins. MM has laser eyes, invisibility as well, and far superior mental powers, but does Apocalypse have enough physically prowess or other abilities to usurp Manhunter regardless of the Martians greatness? I'm not sure, but help me out on this one. Im leaning towards MM, and he's my favorite hero ever, so maybe i'm just bias.

#2 Posted by XiiX (10673 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter.

#3 Posted by Wolverine08 (47895 posts) - - Show Bio

@xiix said:

Martian Manhunter.

#4 Edited by Experio (18205 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian

#5 Posted by NICK31898 (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@xiix said:

Martian Manhunter.

#6 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (5102 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse stomps when wrote correctly

#7 Posted by NICK31898 (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: How? Martian Manhunter shows greater feats, and I don't believe Apocalypse is resistant to TP is he?

#8 Posted by Juiceboks (12920 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse stomps when wrote correctly

..you know what I'll bite. What has he done that would suggest he'd stomp arguably the most powerful member of the Big 5?

#9 Posted by senglord (2179 posts) - - Show Bio

Big PAC needs serious prep time advantage. Or MM stomps.

#10 Edited by Kingant27 (11938 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse, depends which version if current, then Manhunter, but if it 1990s Apocalypse, then Apocalypse.

Apocalypse was able to beat both Jean Grey and Professor Xavier in a telepathic encounter; even though Martian Manhunter is an extremely powerful telepath, the fact that Apocalypse was taking on and beating 2 powerful telepath at once puts him very slightly higher IMO.

Strength: Apocalypse, he is stronger than Thor and Hulk, and his Celestial technology allows him to amp his strength as much as he wants.

Apocalypse's energy manipulation vs Martian Manhunter's heat vision= even though Martian Manhunter's heat vision is extremely powerful, I believe Apocalypse can do more with his energy projection.

Both intangible. Martian Manhunter can faze through attacks, while Apocalypse can completely control every molecule in his body, enabling him to dodge virtually any attack.

Apocalypse exceeds him, as he has all these additional abilities:

Matter manipulation

Celestial Armour(Tech, Wounds, Shields ,ect)

Molecule Control(for himself and Others)

Size Minipulation

Immortality

Regeneration

Teleportation

Apocalypse is also quite a bit smarter than Martian Manhunter as he is so smart that he is able to use Celestial technology, and he is thousands of years old, he has acquired more knowledge, and probably more fighting experience(Although debatable as to who is a better fighter).

Martian Manhunter is faster, but I know this may not compare, but Apocalypse is easily able to react to Quicksilver, not to mention he can use a force field or teleport to avoid attacks.

#11 Posted by comic_book_fan (6430 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse he is better at everything except speed.

#12 Posted by NICK31898 (2247 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingant27:

I don't believe that He is stronger than MM, on the account that MM is on Par with Superman in strength and speed.

Martian Manhunter is a better Telepath than Professor X and Jean.

And what about Speed blitz? The OP says nothing about it.

#13 Posted by Kingant27 (11938 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

J'onn if Pre 52.

#15 Posted by comic_book_fan (6430 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick31898: manhunter is almost as strong as superman thor is just as strong and can't even hurt Apocalypse without a plot weapon.

xavier is just as strong as manhunter in telepathy and Apocalypse resisted cable x-man Xavier and jean all at once with ease so telepathy won't work.

#16 Edited by Kingant27 (11938 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick31898: Martian Manhunter is just below Superman level/nearly on par with him.

Apocalypse is above Thor and Hulk's strength level, and is able to amp his strength level as much as he needs.

While I believe Martian Manhunter is probably a better telepath than both (singly) Professor Xavier and Jean Grey, I think if Martian Manhunter were to face both Jean Grey and Professor Xavier in telepathic encounter, he would loose.

Apocalypse, (even weakened) he punks Jean Grey psionically.

Apocalypse mind blasts Xavier.

Apocalypse takes a full telekinetic blast from Exodus with no effect, and blasts Exodus away.

Apocalypse also creates a force field able to hold and even pre-powerdown Exodus.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/...origin13kw0.jpg

Apocalypse has reacted to Quicksilver easily, even though Martian Manhunter is faster, Apocalypse is still fast, not to mention if Apocalypse uses a force field, Martian Manhunter's speed blitz will be a non-factor.

Apocalypse is so impervious to attacks, that even when Cyclops did multiple of his most powerful blast, Apocalypse is unaffected.

Apocalypse also was unaffected by another of Cyclops's full optic blast and Black Bolt scream.

Apocalypse's regeneration is so good, that he can easily reform within a couple of seconds from a pool of blood.

Apocalypse also held his own against the High Evolutionary, someone who is extremely powerful.

#17 Posted by Cable_Extreme (10553 posts) - - Show Bio

MM, speed blitz, Apoc won't touch him.

#18 Edited by Kingant27 (11938 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: No, what goods a speed blitz, if you cannot hurt or touch your opponent.

Apocalypse has force fields, so what good is a force field if you can't hit your opponent.

Apocalypse can completely control his molecules, meaning Martian Manhunter isn't touching Apocalypse, unless he wants to.

Besides people who say speed blitz generally have no other reason for why the character they picked will exceed the other character.

#19 Posted by Racob7 (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

MMH, this needs the ol' lock.

#20 Posted by Cable_Extreme (10553 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingant27: speed blitz basically mean with MM's reflexes, apoc stands no chance in hell of actually even touching him. Mm has more than enough strength, and versitle powers to win.

#21 Edited by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingant27: Yeah it's called J'onn laying punches on Apocalypse till he's done for.J'onn being just as powerful as Superman,taken down the Justice League,sent Superboy-Prime flying with a punch (something Superman and Black Adam couldn't pull off),etc.Touch him?J'onn can stay intangible away from Apocalypse's attacks while J'onn's phasing can damage Apocalypse as J'onn has taken out White Martians and Superman through phasing. If Pre 52 J'onn,then J'onn wins

#22 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (5102 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: @racob7: why beacuse your fav out the two is going to lose nearly everyone picked MMH without a point to back it up just beacuse they like him

Whats speed blitz going to do when he controls his all his body on a molecular level where he dosent recieve any damage from physical attacks

#23 Posted by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: J'onn can control his body on a molecular level.Doesn't mean he's immune to physical damage

#24 Edited by GraniteSoldier (10917 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

Apocalypse stomps when wrote correctly

..you know what I'll bite. What has he done that would suggest he'd stomp arguably the most powerful member of the Big 5?

Quoting because I'm curious as well. I don't recall anything putting Apoc on J'onn's level of strength, speed, durability, capabilities of resisting Manhunter's levels of telepathy, or having a counter for his intangibility. Apoc regularly was taken down by the X-Men, albeit with great difficulty, but J'onn has just consistently shown to be superior in his showings. Unless he's been significantly nerfed in New 52, but I don't think he has been.

#25 Edited by HAMMER_OF_J2 (2147 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick31898: he has TP himself and if I'm not mistaken he resisted Profesor X and Jean Grey at the same time

#26 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (5102 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: @reaverlation: well apocylose been a jobber of late but he easily was swatting thor away like a fly, man handling the hulk, beating Xman,cable,jean grey, professor x in a telepath battle,

Re acted to miljoir, plus all of his celesital tech with his thousands of years knowledge plus the fact hes unkillible hes actually IMMORTAL

#27 Edited by Kingant27 (11938 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Agreed, Dc fans will fail to admit that Apocalypse is superior to Martian Manhunter.

His only advantage is speed, which Dc fans go on about, but the fact of the matter is that Martian Manhunter can't touch Apocalypse, or can hurt, Apocalypse.

Apocalypse will definitely be able to touch him, fact, as Celestial technology enhances everything; also he does have matter manipulation, energy blast etc, you make it sound as if he is impossible to react to.

Martian Manhunter lacks the versatile, Apocalypse has everything he has and more.

#28 Posted by Racob7 (7875 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Edited by Manchine (4295 posts) - - Show Bio

@xiix said:

Martian Manhunter.

Easily

#30 Edited by Manchine (4295 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@granitesoldier: @reaverlation: well apocylose been a jobber of late but he easily was swatting thor away like a fly, man handling the hulk, beating Xman,cable,jean grey, professor x in a telepath battle,

Re acted to miljoir, plus all of his celesital tech with his thousands of years knowledge plus the fact hes unkillible hes actually IMMORTAL

He fought a YOUNG THOR, who strength level is unknown. Apocalypse was a copy of which fought a dieing hulk after he fought all the xmen. (we never count alternate dimension characters)

#31 Posted by GraniteSoldier (10917 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingant27: Before you insinuate about "Marvel fans" or "DC fans" I am neither. I like good heroes. As it currently stands, most of my pull list and favorite heroes come from Marvel, and Martian Manhunter is not on my list at all. I voiced my opinion based on knowledge of both characters. If you think someone is wrong, try and educate and sway them through friendly debate. Resorting to claims of "fanboying" in some form or fashion hurt your debate, as it simply seems petty. Call me wrong, but that's my stance on the matter. I'm far from a "DC fanboy" or whatever.

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: I am not dismissing Apocalypse, I know he's a Billy Badass. I just don't see him on Martian's level. Defeating Nate Grey in a TP battle is impressive, for sure, and I think Nate is superior to Jean and Professor X myself. But I've never seen any indication Apocalypse can take the level of physical punishment J'onn can give out. He's Superman level and there have been implications he's stronger. Which means he's planet buster at the least. Now, I usually stay away from high-tier debates because of how ridiculous it can get with feats, but I don't recall Apoc showing that level of durability like someone like Thanos has. Unless you can, of course, sway me with some sort of visual evidence of such. I don't think this is a stomp of J'onn, especially in character, but I do think he wins.

What do you think @dondave? I know you're big into the high-tier types.

#32 Posted by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by Assman (1984 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2: Agreed, Dc fans will fail to admit that Apocalypse is superior to Martian Manhunter.

His only advantage is speed, which Dc fans go on about, but the fact of the matter is that Martian Manhunter can't touch Apocalypse, or can hurt, Apocalypse.

Apocalypse will definitely be able to touch him, fact, as Celestial technology enhances everything; also he does have matter manipulation, energy blast etc, you make it sound as if he is impossible to react to.

Martian Manhunter lacks the versatile, Apocalypse has everything he has and more.

He has the potential to be superior to MM, I wouldn't say he actually is. I am curious how someone who has tp, intangibility, invulnerability, heat vision, super speed etc lacks versatility?? He's one of the most versatile heroes that I know of. As for the battle, it's actually a good battle, I don't think anyone gets stomped, I'd personally lean towards J'onz on feats shown, good and bad.

#34 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (5102 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: ok I'll post some scans in the morning when I'm on a computer but he has impressive durability, also have a scan if him holding the hulk effortlessly with one hand and regenerating from a puddle in 2 panels to normal

#35 Posted by dondave (39846 posts) - - Show Bio

J'onn

#36 Posted by Kingant27 (11938 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: The site doesn't allow me to upload pictures on a thread for some reason.

You stated that you don't believe that Apocalypse can take what Martian Manhunter can dish out; that is crazy thinking, considering Apocalypse has took on High Evolutionary(Well above Martian Manhunter), he also took Multiple fill powered Optic blast(Cyclops), and Black Bolts (screams), well above anything Martian Manhunter can dish out.(Bearing in mind that Black Bolts scream was so powerful that it created a hole in reality, and even a whisper caused alot of damage to both World War Hulk and Thanos.

There is nothing Martian Manhunter can do, which Apocalypse can't do better,(except speed), which will not play a part in this fight, as both can dodge any physical attack without hassle, but the difference is Apocalypse has more abilities, which will easily give him the edge:

Force Fields

Matter manipulation

Celestial Armour(Tech, Wounds, Shields ,ect)

Molecule Control(for himself and Others)

Size Manipulation

Immortality

Regeneration(reformed from a pool of blood within seconds.(like Lobo).

Teleportation

Apocalypse is also quite a bit smarter than Martian Manhunter as he is so smart that he is able to use Celestial technology, and he is thousands of years old, he has acquired more knowledge, and probably more fighting experience(Although debatable as to who is a better fighter).

#37 Edited by Assman (1984 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: ok I'll post some scans in the morning when I'm on a computer but he has impressive durability, also have a scan if him holding the hulk effortlessly with one hand and regenerating from a puddle in 2 panels to normal

I'm assuming your referring to this one? This one shot is taken right out of context as far as trying to prove physical superiority to the Hulk!

#38 Edited by Wolverine08 (47895 posts) - - Show Bio
#39 Posted by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingant27: Neither Bolt's voice or Scott's optic beams are close to J'onn's damage output who has sent Superboy-Prime flying with a hit and not even Teth and Clark did that.Bolt's voice was shrugged off by WWH and did nothing to Thanos. Force fields that J'onn can phase through,useless matter manipulation,irrelevant armor,J'onn can increase in size,immortality that won't stop Apoc from getting KO'd,J'onn having a healing factor on Lobo's level,etc.Funny I doubt Apoc has used some of these abilities in battle. Apoc is outclassed by J'onn

#40 Posted by dondave (39846 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is Immortality being discussed here?

#41 Edited by XiiX (10673 posts) - - Show Bio

Apart from Dr. Manhattan, Apocalypse literally has to be the worst example I regularly see of a character getting hyped above their station based on the same half dozen scans being posted over and over and over again. Seriously, I've been off and on this site for about half a decade, and I still see the same exact scans of Apocalypse, hahahaha. The 1 exception being him punking a young, drunken Thor(because it obviously wasn't around then).

#42 Posted by Homer_X (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter

#43 Posted by GraniteSoldier (10917 posts) - - Show Bio

@assman said:

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@granitesoldier: ok I'll post some scans in the morning when I'm on a computer but he has impressive durability, also have a scan if him holding the hulk effortlessly with one hand and regenerating from a puddle in 2 panels to normal

I'm assuming your referring to this one? This one shot is taken right out of context as far as trying to prove physical superiority to the Hulk!

Oh this scan, if memory serves Hulk is significantly weakened here. @ghostravage or @theacidskull might be able to clarify.

#44 Posted by AuldWolf (9 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll have to hand this one to Apocalypse, many plotlines have placed him at very near-Celestial levels of the power. The kinds of power that could stand toe to toe with Galan and Mr. Evolutionary (the latter has precedence). So, unless we're saying that J'onn is powerful enough to take out, oh, say... Arishem, then I think this has to go to Apocalypse.

If we can realistically claim that J'onn could take out Arishem (are we?), then I think the fight has to go to J'onn. Though I'm not even sure if Supes on his best day could put a dent in Arishem. I think people generally underestimate just how powerful Apocalypse is. He was the first of the mutants, tool of the Celestials on earth, and granted the boon of various manners of Celestial technology. I'd say he's even more powerful than Thanos in numerous ways.

I just think he's being vastly underestimated. So, the question is, just to put how underestimated he's being in context: Could J'onn reasonably K.O. Arishem?

#45 Posted by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

@auldwolf: That's bad reasoning.If I take J'onn's highest TP feat,J'onn stomps Apoc

#46 Posted by dondave (39846 posts) - - Show Bio

@auldwolf Apocalypse is not beating a Celestial

#47 Posted by ZhuRong (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

J'onn by the skin of his teeth. Apocalypse stomps.

#48 Posted by reaverlation (18450 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by ZhuRong (6729 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation: You're right...this is overkill in Apocalypse's favour