" @Ultimate Joker: Magneto has a faster reaction time so he has to act fast and kill apoc by ripping him in half or something. But yes, Apocalypse warped reality in Ages of Apoc, not to be confused with Age of Apoc. And he has transmuted matter before. All External Mutants can transmute matter. Feats: 1. Reality warps Ozymandias into a being of living stone. 2. Matter manipulation. Turns his harbinger into a bomb. 3. Creates a mantis creature as strong as ten regular humans, in one limb. 4. Apocalypse can easily disintegrate a person in his hand. "
I still want scans though, as well as the knowledge of whether he was touching/near the objects/people he transmuted. Most important about this is "did he openly get an upgrade in power" during this arc?
I will have to side with master of metal i mean he is one tough cookie but apocalypse knows a lot about tech and more but some what the same thing with mag's but apo he powers are too much for me don't let me get started on apocalypse and the tech he use.
" @yodagod: But how do you know that Magneto can manipulate Celestial Technology? Apocalypse has completely merged with the Celestial Technology, a long time ago. Apocalypse's armor, entire body and entire make up is technologically Celestial in nature. Celestial Technology is nothing Magneto has ever encountered because it is almost magical in nature and is not from Marvel 616 Earth. Also, if Iron Man or Dr. Doom can find ways to nullify Magneto's powers, then why can't Apocalypse manage to find a way to nullify Magneto's powers through said ways or other ways? They are all very intelligent Marvel characters. Apocalypse could also transmute Magneto. "
Whether Mags can manipulate celestial tech is irrelevent because we know he can manipulate the organic matter that Apoc is also made from. Also, unless the celestial tech doesn't have an atomic make up consisting of electrons or polarized particles (highly unlikely) then Mags should be able to manipulate it. And unless the fight starts with Mags inside Apoc's transmuter machine, Apoc can not transmute him. He has never to my knowledge just transmuted another character against their will. If Sersi can't do it (she's had opportunity in two battles against Mags and didn't, and pretty much every knowledgable vinemember doesn't think she can), then there's no way Apoc can. Apocalypse could probably do what Tony and Doom did, if he had prep, he doesn't here though. And in spite of preparing and having anti-Magneto devices, Mags has easily handled Tony in all their encounters, and scared Doom enough to make him back off at least twice...once during Secret Wars, and once as head of Xavier's school.
" @Ultimate Joker: Magneto has a faster reaction time so he has to act fast and kill apoc by ripping him in half or something. But yes, Apocalypse warped reality in Ages of Apoc, not to be confused with Age of Apoc. And he has transmuted matter before. All External Mutants can transmute matter. Feats: 1. Reality warps Ozymandias into a being of living stone. 2. Matter manipulation. Turns his harbinger into a bomb. 3. Creates a mantis creature as strong as ten regular humans, in one limb. 4. Apocalypse can easily disintegrate a person in his hand. "
Turning someone into stone is not considered reality warping, he did not effect reality at all with that. He did that after stealing/gaining the tech from the celestial ship that he got after defeating Rama-Tat, who was, in actuallity, a younger version of Kang The Conquerer!
" @yodagod: But how do you know that Magneto can manipulate Celestial Technology? Apocalypse has completely merged with the Celestial Technology, a long time ago. Apocalypse's armor, entire body and entire make up is technologically Celestial in nature. Celestial Technology is nothing Magneto has ever encountered because it is almost magical in nature and is not from Marvel 616 Earth. Also, if Iron Man or Dr. Doom can find ways to nullify Magneto's powers, then why can't Apocalypse manage to find a way to nullify Magneto's powers through said ways or other ways? They are all very intelligent Marvel characters. Apocalypse could also transmute Magneto. "
Whether Mags can manipulate celestial tech is irrelevent because we know he can manipulate the organic matter that Apoc is also made from. Also, unless the celestial tech doesn't have an atomic make up consisting of electrons or polarized particles (highly unlikely) then Mags should be able to manipulate it. And unless the fight starts with Mags inside Apoc's transmuter machine, Apoc can not transmute him. He has never to my knowledge just transmuted another character against their will. If Sersi can't do it (she's had opportunity in two battles against Mags and didn't, and pretty much every knowledgable vinemember doesn't think she can), then there's no way Apoc can. Apocalypse could probably do what Tony and Doom did, if he had prep, he doesn't here though. And in spite of preparing and having anti-Magneto devices, Mags has easily handled Tony in all their encounters, and scared Doom enough to make him back off at least twice...once during Secret Wars, and once as head of Xavier's school. "
When did Magneto scare off Dr. Doom? That rarely happens. : D Also, it is not just organic matter that makes up Apocalypse. It has been completely fused with Celestial Technology. Celestial Technology might have a magical property to it, which Magneto can't manipulate. "
My point is that in spite of being merged with the Celestial tech, Apoc still has an organic makeup that can be affected. Mags can directly affect the organic cells even if he can't do anything to the tech. And as to the make up of the tech, we don't know what it's made of or whether Mags can affect it or not. Anything would be speculation and should probably be left out of the discussion. I personally think it's far more likely that he can affect it than that he can't, unless it is magical and even then it's possible. Beast actually offers a scientific explanation for magic in Marvel, though his hypothesis has never been tested. Mags and Doom have had a few meetings. During Secret Wars Doom was almost desperate to get Mags to switch to the villain side. Everyone was surprised he was with the heroes, and ultimately it was Mags who turned the tide. After Mags was made head of the school they met and tested each other with the result that both believed that they got the better of the other and that each was superior to the other, so scared isn't really the right word. But Magneto is someone that Doom considers a threat, and he knows enough not to confront Mags directly unless it's just to talk. Doom did flat beat Mags once though.
@Edamame: Mags and Doom only actually came head to head in combat once, and Doom had a bunch of additional power at the time so it's irrelevent. Mags has never tried to affect Doom except their one unbalanced fight that had nothing to do with magic, and Mags wasn't using his power in that way at the time anyway. It's never been stated that Celestial tech is magical. It might be magical, but until it is confirmed we don't know. Furthermore, Mags has never really fought magical creatures or constructs so we don't know whether he can affect them or not. Both of these things would be crucial information, but since they have never happened, don't apply in this battle.
I understand your speculation, but it's just that...speculation. It would make sense that it may be partially or wholly magical in nature, but I speculate that Mags can affect magic. It doesn't mean anything until it's tested. There's no point in arguing it until we can show one way or the other. What we do know, is that Mags has affected organic material, and nonferrous materials. That is enough for Mags to win here.
p.s. Cartoons mean nothing. They are poorly written and noncanon so neither of those clips amount to anything. We know that Proteus is more powerful than Apoc and is a high level reality manipulator and Mags just stomped Proteus. And that is canon.
@Edamame: What!!! Then how was he able to preform that feat if he could manuipulate his energy through the em spectrum???? He clearly stated on panel how he was able to affect him in his pure psionic form it's there wheather you accept or not.
@Edamame: You made the assumptions that every form of energy is made up of electrons, and that every form of energy is close enough to the EM spectrum for Magneto to manipulate.
@Edamame: 1. Different materials. Darkforce, magical energy, none of it has to be directly related to anything remotely resembling electrons.
2. Magneto didn't know he could manipulate psionic energy until he had time to learn about it. In that very issue. I'll try to find a page number or scan, but in the book, he was talking about how he had a theory, but he needed time to test it or some such thing.
@Edamame: The issue didn't say it was related to electromagnetism. It was close enough to the electromagnetic spectrum however, and consisted of electrons. That, and the fact that Magneto's been dealing with characters who have a base in psionics could have contributed. But yes, Magneto is incredibly intelligent and resourceful.
And no, I don't think Magneto could manipulate darkforce energy or mystical energy. He may be able to, but that's something I'd have to see for my self.
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