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#1 Edited by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

Both are blood lust and this is Apoc at full power.....

#2 Edited by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

How much power does Juggybug get? Classic, gimped, 8th Day, Trion, Kuurth, J2, Colossonaut, what? Gonna have to come a bit more specific.

#3 Posted by Ratatat (697 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse by BFR

#4 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio

8th day or higher Juggernaut wins. En Sabah Nurr never lived up to his power levels. He has telepathy though, so if he could get the helmet off and stall a bit Id wager he could defeat the versions that aren't 8th day or Trion. Classic Juggs could be a good fight.

#6 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanwithatan01: Classic has a good chance too. Just because Apoc has telepathy doesn't mean he knows it is Cain's one and only weakness. He may try it, notice that it is blocked (unknowing that the helmet is what blocks it) and try other tactics instead, which should inevitably fail until Juggz gets close enough to trap him in the forcefield and pound him.

#7 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see Apocalypse winning. He can't hurt Juggernaut, but he can overpower him and send his ass flying.

#8 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: Apoc is a clever character. If he sees Cain wearing the helmet, noting that he is wearing a helmet even though he's immune to physical harm then he is smart enough to deduce that it may be his Achilles heel. It's perfectly plausible and I believe he has encountered Juggernaut effort iirc.

#9 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@ohitsthatguy: Until he swims back against telekinesis, teleports back, or just uses his forcefield to totally ignore any attempts to push him away.

#10 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Kuruuth wins, Classic wins, 8th day wins, other versions probably either lose or go 50/50.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#11 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

How much power does Juggybug get? Classic, gimped, 8th Day, Trion, Kuurth, J2, Colossonaut, what? Gonna have to come a bit more specific.

Well how powerful is 8th day version? I dont want to make this a mismatch....

#12 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: Juggernaut's forcefield doesn't stop him from being moved around. I've seen both Thor and Hulk hurl Juggernaut away. Why not Apocalypse?

#14 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@darklord_apoc: 8th Day smashed Thor.

Then I will go with the 8th day version because Apocalypse's Harbringer also smashed Thor, the rest of the avengers and Cable.... If he can do all that then his master should also be able to do that and worse!

#15 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: I honestly don't believe Thor was fighting with all he had. He holds back considerably, when on Earth or when he has humans within his presence. His fight with Gorr just cemented that with me.

#16 Posted by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

8th day and trion are the only versions that can win this, every other version apocalypse gets the helmet off and mind rapes him.

#17 Posted by robertloucksjr (1836 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't Apoc just TK him into the air and leave him there? Thunder Clap should be ineffective against Apoc so he could just let him rot.

#18 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@ohitsthatguy:

I am sure he was fighting his all because it would be dumb of him not to when the harbringer was trying to destroy N.Y, and even if he was not fighting at full power he still had himself and the other avengers and even cable but nothing worked... He died by Apoc turning him into a bomb and Cable barley managed to push him in tha air before the harbringer blew up.... Also remember how Apoc was able to ragdoll the hulk and made him into "war hulk?" War Hulk was able to beat Juggernaunt and the Absorbing Man at the sametime.... Honestly I do not see Jugs being able to hurt Apoc at all... Especially classic Apoc or a fully charged Apoc who doesn't jobber around

#19 Posted by comic_book_fan (5923 posts) - - Show Bio

apocalypse

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#20 Posted by Joygirl (19951 posts) - - Show Bio

@ohitsthatguy: Considering Thor godblasted Classic Juggybug and it just made him go "ow hey, stahp", I'd say he had no chance against 8th Day.

And, considering that this IS 8th Day, I'd say he wins in this thread as well. As 8th Day he has a great deal of Cyttorak's power, and I think we can all agree that Cyttorak >>>>>> En Sabbah Nur.

#21 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@ohitsthatguy: Considering Thor godblasted Classic Juggybug and it just made him go "ow hey, stahp", I'd say he had no chance against 8th Day.

And, considering that this IS 8th Day, I'd say he wins in this thread as well. As 8th Day he has a great deal of Cyttorak's power, and I think we can all agree that Cyttorak >>>>>> En Sabbah Nur.

How much of his powers did he have though? Apocalypse when wrote correctly took on the High Evolutionary, Loki, Hulk, and an attack from Black Bolt at point blank range and just laughed it off....

#22 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse

#23 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: Who said Thor could beat 8th Day Juggernaut? Not me. Classic Juggs gets his ass handed to him by Thor, though. If it's 8th Day, he wins against Apocalypse.

@darklord_apoc:

The guy's blows destroyed several planets in his fight with Gorr. Apocalypse, or anything he's every created, have never exhibited that much power output. Earth wouldn't survive Thor's full power. Also, I don't disagree with Apocalypse being stronger than Hulk in his base form. Still, he doesn't win this fight. Furthermore, High Evolutionary went toe-2-toe with Galactus. Apoc has nothing on him.

#24 Edited by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: Who said Thor could beat 8th Day Juggernaut? Not me. Classic Juggs gets his ass handed to him by Thor, though. If it's 8th Day, he wins against Apocalypse.

@darklord_apoc:

The guy's blows destroyed several planets in his fight with Gorr. Apocalypse, or anything he's every created, have never exhibited that much power output. Earth wouldn't survive Thor's full power. Also, I don't disagree with Apocalypse being stronger than Hulk in his base form. Still, he doesn't win this fight. Furthermore, High Evolutionary went toe-2-toe with Galactus. Apoc has nothing on him.

Apocalypse has fought beings able to destroy planets...... Thing is why would he want to destroy earth when he wants to rule it?? And Apoc has beat the High Evolutionary before and I can provide the scan if you would like?? Apoc was able to make the Hulk powerful enough to take on both Juggernaunt and the Absorbing Man at the same time!! He took mental blast from a blood lust Jean Grey (who had some of the phx force in her), plus Cable and Pro X at the same time with a thought..... He fought Storm, Beast, Quick Silver, Night Crawler, Colossus, and Arch Angel at the same time (which is not that impressive, but thing is he was DYING) and he did all that in less than 60 seconds!! He has snatched Loki up like nothing and had Loki running away from him.... He made a human powerful enough to take on all the avengers and won, if it was not for Cable pushing the Harbringer away from New York! A blood lust Cyclopse shot him point blank range and Apoc just absorbed his powers to where Cyclopse could not use his powers anymore for months!! Plus he took a direct hit from Black Bolt, the inhumans, and xmen and just laughed at them!

#25 Posted by IIXIIOIIXII (41 posts) - - Show Bio

Draw

#26 Edited by chiq (2021 posts) - - Show Bio

Apoc should be powerful enough to get that helmet off and take him out with TP

#27 Edited by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

Draw

Apocalypse has the smarts and does not tire when he fights!! Plus besides with PIS none really was able to defeat him.... His body is like rubber, kind of like Mr. Fantastic and Sinister.... For some reason it matches Juggernaunt being a horseman for Apoc! Like the Hulk was... Does Jugs have a defense against spirit transfer?

#28 Posted by Freefa11 (2423 posts) - - Show Bio

Old school Apocalypse would eventually win. Very fast, very agile, constantly shapeshifting out of the way of attacks, plus flight and teleportation. There's really no reason Juggernaut should ever be able to tag him. He'd just evade until he figured out to get the helmet off (if the X-Men can figure it out, Apocalypse can).

Nowadays Apocalypse tends to be written more like a dumb brick though, in which case, he just might try to stand his ground and end up getting punched, which would be stupid (although his durability is pretty high, so he could probably survive a couple).

#29 Posted by nigravirum1 (147 posts) - - Show Bio
#30 Posted by capall2 (1427 posts) - - Show Bio

Poccy should win here due to his tp...

#31 Edited by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@freefa11 said:

Old school Apocalypse would eventually win. Very fast, very agile, constantly shapeshifting out of the way of attacks, plus flight and teleportation. There's really no reason Juggernaut should ever be able to tag him. He'd just evade until he figured out to get the helmet off (if the X-Men can figure it out, Apocalypse can).

Nowadays Apocalypse tends to be written more like a dumb brick though, in which case, he just might try to stand his ground and end up getting punched, which would be stupid (although his durability is pretty high, so he could probably survive a couple).

That's my point about Apocalypse!! When he was written right he was a beast, but nowadays the writers seem to be lazy with him.... But classic Apoc was probably a level after Thanos!! Between the 80's till 2000 was Apoc's best feats!!

#32 Posted by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: Apocalypse taking on someone with the power to fight Galactus is silly. Apocalypse uses Celestial Tech, but HE is a peer of theirs. Apocalypse isn't on HE's level. Also. Hulk has taken out regular Juggernaut by himself already, but that doesn't mean he or Apocalypse have what it takes to take on 8th Day. 8th Day was punching holes through reality. Furthermore, beating the X-Men isn't something 8th Day can't do and Loki losing is PIS. Loki could have turned him into a frog, and there wouldn't be a damn thing Apoc could do. 8th Day takes this.

#33 Posted by comic_book_fan (5923 posts) - - Show Bio

@ohitsthatguy:

oh except turn himself back to normal using his powers over his molecules you mean H E is a apocalypse level character he has fought galactus but he has also been on magneto level.

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#34 Posted by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Loki's powers are magical, so I doubt that. Also, HE is far beyond both Mags and Apoc.

#35 Edited by comic_book_fan (5923 posts) - - Show Bio

@ohitsthatguy:

no I meant high evolutionary and no neither he nor loki is over Apocalypse or magneto

they are on the same level at best.

well in comparison the magic of asgaurd didn't stop the celestials so you take Odin mini and celestial mini and the outcome will be the same loki gets beat down and runs with his tail between his legs.

but back to this fight apocalypse raps him up rips off his helmet and shuts him down.

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#36 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: Apocalypse taking on someone with the power to fight Galactus is silly. Apocalypse uses Celestial Tech, but HE is a peer of theirs. Apocalypse isn't on HE's level. Also. Hulk has taken out regular Juggernaut by himself already, but that doesn't mean he or Apocalypse have what it takes to take on 8th Day. 8th Day was punching holes through reality. Furthermore, beating the X-Men isn't something 8th Day can't do and Loki losing is PIS. Loki could have turned him into a frog, and there wouldn't be a damn thing Apoc could do. 8th Day takes this.

Um no it was not PIS because Loki couldnt just turn Apoc into a frog lol... Apoc has shape changing abilities so he could just turn back, plus his armor is of Celestial tech.... Well Apoc did get H.E, and Apoc was not even blood lust! Well the same Hulk who cracked Onslaughts armor was the one Apoc ragdoll like nothing and made him waaaay more powerful..... He was able to get both Juggs and Absorbing Man at the same time which is a pretty good feat.... So if Apoc could do that for Hulk or make a being able to ragdoll the avengers, then why could he not give himself the same power??

#37 Edited by Djangophile (281 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernauts golden rule is that with sufficient momentum, he can't be stopped from moving. This has nothing to do with his physical strength. Juggernauts base physical strength is not unlimited, nor has it ever been shown to be significantly more than a really upset Hulk. In a wrestling match with Apoc? Marco would be overpowered, but there isn't anything Apoc can do to physically harm him. The best he can do is stop Marco from moving, pin him and make him quit or leave.

#38 Posted by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: Nope. When Loki turned Thor into a frog, it robed him of his powers as well. Apoc would be made helpless. His celestial tech doesn't make him immune to magic. And HE stalemating Apoc was bad writing. HE was able to go toe-2-toe with Galactus. HE is a sky father, at least. Mindless Hulk was also the one that broke through Onslaught. Mindless Hulk, without Banner holding him back, would beat the living crap out of Apocalypse. 8th Day would just give a worse beating.

@comic_book_fan: HE is so far above Apocalypse and Magento, that it is hilarious. The guy is an actual god now, capable of terraforming the moon by himself. Where Galactus gives death, HE gives life. Both of them dream to rule the world. HE can actually, and has, made worlds. He is that far above these two. He devolves them both and calls it a day. Also, Apocalypse IS NOT A CELESTIAL. Not even close. He loses to 8th Day.

#39 Posted by comic_book_fan (5923 posts) - - Show Bio

high evolutionary fought galactus and got his ass kicked they are not even close to equals.

apocalypse could do just as good against galactus as high evolutionary did and apocalypse is as close to a celestial as loki is to odin so he beats loki and who said this was 8th day juggernaut.

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#40 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: Nope. When Loki turned Thor into a frog, it robed him of his powers as well. Apoc would be made helpless. His celestial tech doesn't make him immune to magic. And HE stalemating Apoc was bad writing. HE was able to go toe-2-toe with Galactus. HE is a sky father, at least. Mindless Hulk was also the one that broke through Onslaught. Mindless Hulk, without Banner holding him back, would beat the living crap out of Apocalypse. 8th Day would just give a worse beating.

@comic_book_fan: HE is so far above Apocalypse and Magento, that it is hilarious. The guy is an actual god now, capable of terraforming the moon by himself. Where Galactus gives death, HE gives life. Both of them dream to rule the world. HE can actually, and has, made worlds. He is that far above these two. He devolves them both and calls it a day. Also, Apocalypse IS NOT A CELESTIAL. Not even close. He loses to 8th Day.

Nope it was not bad writing because during the 80's to 2000's Apocalypse was shown to be consistantly beating hero's, and villains who are very powerful... And Apoc is a mutuant who has full control over his body so I would not call that powers... And I can show you the scans where Loki ran away from Apocalypse and this was during when Loki was brain washing other villains to fight for him... Lol and he did fight a mindless Hulk without Banner inside it, look it up because this happened not to long ago when the heros were still trapped in the pocket universe Franklin made.... And Apoc is just faster than Loki and High Evolutionary due to none really was able to hit him, so even if Loki could do that he would have to aim and shoot his powers at Apoc to turn him into a frog, which he was not able to really get Apoc which is why people underrate him due to bad writing from Blood of Apoc till up.... But one good showing was in "the messiah complex arc" where a full powered APoc was able to wipe the floor with Stryfe and take over his body due to soul transfer... So if you're going to say that ever character classic Apoc has fought then you might as well just say that classic apoc is another squirrel girl lol...

#41 Posted by FrozenPhoenix (1722 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse is so flexible in his power set, and also soooo much smarter than Cain. I can't see him losing to any physical threat.

#42 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: HE has the power cosmic now. Even before he had it, he was capable of fighting Galactus. Apocalypse has tried to take over the world, but HE actually makes worlds. HE is beyond Apocalypse in every department. Loki has also shown himself capable of making a fool out Thor and Silver Surfer, so running away from Apocalypse is PIS. Loki didn't even want to fight, for he simply wanted to enlist Apocalypse's help in taking down the Avengers, but Apocalypse sought to ambush Loki with Celestial Tech. Tech he broke out of easily. Loki threatened to destroy Apocalypse, and the rest of humanity, and Caliban feared for their lives. Apocalypse confirmed the threat as not a lie, so he comforted Caliban with his Social Darwinist nonsense. Also, cite the issue of the fight with Mindless Hulk.

#43 Posted by Djangophile (281 posts) - - Show Bio

Apoc would certainly win this.

#44 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: HE has the power cosmic now. Even before he had it, he was capable of fighting Galactus. Apocalypse has tried to take over the world, but HE actually makes worlds. HE is beyond Apocalypse in every department. Loki has also shown himself capable of making a fool out Thor and Silver Surfer, so running away from Apocalypse is PIS. Loki didn't even want to fight, for he simply wanted to enlist Apocalypse's help in taking down the Avengers, but Apocalypse sought to ambush Loki with Celestial Tech. Tech he broke out of easily. Loki threatened to destroy Apocalypse, and the rest of humanity, and Caliban feared for their lives. Apocalypse confirmed the threat as not a lie, so he comforted Caliban with his Social Darwinist nonsense. Also, cite the issue of the fight with Mindless Hulk.

How is it pis when its consistant on apocalypse part to fight higher beings?? High Evolutionary can make or break worlds but if he can not land a hit on apoc then what's making worlds going to do? Galactus was starving and H.E got a good hit in and that was it... To be honest that should have been pis, but either way he landed a good hit in and got rag-dolled all over the place.... You say loki was able to beat thor? Well apocalypse's harbringer was able to beat thor and the other avengers... Classic apoc was able to take hits from the inhumans (which one was black bolt) and the x-men and laughed those hits off... but all this was when apoc was wrote correctly, and if you read his comics you will know that usually when someone beats apoc its either pis, due to his higher showings or because they have to let the heros win... A dying apoc was able to take out storm, beast, quicksilver, night crawler, collossus, and arch angel in under 60 seconds... That is pretty impressive when quicksilver was one of the ones he stomped, and it's pretty impressive due to apocalypse was dying.... He allowed them to live because he knew he had use for them in the future so that shows theres been many of times apoc could have destroyed the xmen easily but he chose not to... I have scans and context of the fight with him and loki and can show you that apoc was wayy to fast for him, and yes loki did escape but he ran off, and usually when someone runs from a fight they know they are out matched!! Apoc snatched loki up and put him into the celestial machine to drain his powers... And loki was a threat because he had all those other villains working for him, and one of them was doom, who with prep can do almost anything, but loki himself was no threat, even apoc was laughing at him!! I can go on and on about classic apoc's powers and all he did if you want??

#45 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: How is it PIS? HE has been portrayed as a self-made sky father for years. He turned Galactus into a big brain. Anyone that can do that is far beyond Apocalypse. Also, Thor's feats increase dramatically when he's not on Earth. Cable was able to hurt Harbinger with his spear. He wouldn't survive bloodlusted hits from Thor. Furthermore, Black Bolt's voice can shatter planets. He'd kill Apocalypse if it came down to going all out. It's amazing that you bring out his feats against the X-Men, when Juggernaut has done the same, and when Loki and Thor can do the same. You're also distorting the comic. Apocalypse and Caliban had genuine fear for Loki's threats, for Apocalypse knew it was a genuine one. No one was laughing at the end of their fight. I also enjoy how you're low-balling Loki's prep feats, when the guy has been able to steal Odin's powers.

#46 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: How is it PIS? HE has been portrayed as a self-made sky father for years. He turned Galactus into a big brain. Anyone that can do that is far beyond Apocalypse. Also, Thor's feats increase dramatically when he's not on Earth. Cable was able to hurt Harbinger with his spear. He wouldn't survive bloodlusted hits from Thor. Furthermore, Black Bolt's voice can shatter planets. He'd kill Apocalypse if it came down to going all out. It's amazing that you bring out his feats against the X-Men, when Juggernaut has done the same, and when Loki and Thor can do the same. You're also distorting the comic. Apocalypse and Caliban had genuine fear for Loki's threats, for Apocalypse knew it was a genuine one. No one was laughing at the end of their fight. I also enjoy how you're low-balling Loki's prep feats, when the guy has been able to steal Odin's powers.

1st of all I have the scans here with me, but it wont let me post up the pictures but I can post it up on my profile if you like? When Cal told apocalypse about if they should worry about loki apocalypse said loki was lying but that but his hate against HUMANS are genuine, so how was he worried about loki?? So what you're saying is that H.E, Loki, and others that Apoc was pis when back then he was consistantly fighting foes like those?? He has proved time and time again that he is very durable and can react to speed blitz, so I find it hard to believe all that is pis when it has happened throughout classic apocalypse reign! Im not lowballing no one but you are apocalypse by saying all his wins were due to pis when in fact his loses were more due to pis because the villain always has to lose. Plus show me a scan of H.E doing that to galactus! And why wouldnt the avengers not use all their powers when they knew what the harbringer was about to do which was blow up new york?

#47 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: He was worried about Loki, because he took the threat seriously. He also was completely serious when he told Caliban that humanity had to become stronger, in order to survive Loki's onslaught. And yes, Apocalypse winning over HE is PIS. Anyone that can be acknowledged by Galactus as his counterweight is far above Apocalypse. The win over Loki wasn't a win at all, for Loki didn't want to fight , and was able to overpower Apoc's tech. Apocalypse's prep failed miserably against Loki.

Also:

It's from Fantastic Four 175.

And why would Thor go all out? It's in his character to hold back, when human life is at risk. If he went all out, he'd destroy the planet.

#48 Edited by Moonman78 (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

Apoc gets the helmet off then he mind rapes him.

#49 Posted by darklord_apoc (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: He was worried about Loki, because he took the threat seriously. He also was completely serious when he told Caliban that humanity had to become stronger, in order to survive Loki's onslaught. And yes, Apocalypse winning over HE is PIS. Anyone that can be acknowledged by Galactus as his counterweight is far above Apocalypse. The win over Loki wasn't a win at all, for Loki didn't want to fight , and was able to overpower Apoc's tech. Apocalypse's prep failed miserably against Loki.

Also:

It's from Fantastic Four 175.

And why would Thor go all out? It's in his character to hold back, when human life is at risk. If he went all out, he'd destroy the planet.

So High Evolutionary used a plot device on an unsuspecting Galactus? Because it says his "ray".... With the same ray could not most anyone have done that? And Apocalypse was not worried because as he said "Loki was probably lying, but his hatred for HUMANS are real" And the harbringer was trying to destroy all of New York so it would have been evil if Thor was purposely losing knowing people would die if that thing was not stopped... Again Thor was not alone either but the harbringer is able to mimic his foes powers so it was hard for them to defeat him. I like Loki almost as I like Apocalypse but you people low ball Apocalypse all the time when he has consistantly beat high level foes not once, not twice, not even 3 times but more than that.. Including Professor X, Cyclopse, Cable, with just a thought, and even a blood lust Jean Grey who was the only one who was able to affect him, but he still Ko'ed her and she had some of her Phx powers.

#50 Edited by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@darklord_apoc: It was HE's genius that allowed him to even attempt that feat. A feat that Apocalypse has never matched. Loki has better prep feats than Apocalypse too. Also, Thor's holding back is a plot device, but it's canon, so he doesn't end up out-staging the Avengers. Thor can tackle people into stars, survive the force exerted by black holes, and can destroy planets. Apocalypse's creation was hurt by Cable. Bloodlusted Thor would wreck. I don't know why you're bringing up the X-Men again. Loki and Thor can take them out too.