#1 Posted by BigCimmerian (8147 posts) - - Show Bio

- They can use whatever resources they have 
- Prep 1 day for both 
- To the death 
 
VS 

#2 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

"To face Doom, is to face one's END!"
 
Doom. It doesn't matter WHO you are. You can't overcome the wicked intelligence of that man.

#3 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3664 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump. Both are incredible powerful in their own way but the prep changes things a little. Between Dooms shields, intelligence, magic and technology I believe he can win both random encounter and prep. He'd stall long enough to detect a weakness then BFR him to another dimension or find a way to KO him. With prep - Doom 10/10 (though Apac is no slouch in this department he has no feats to counter Dooms) Without - Doom 5.5/10

#4 Posted by Resonance (86 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9104 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect: Apocalypse could beat him by telekenetically throwing him into the sun.

#6 Edited by Strider92 (16296 posts) - - Show Bio

Giving prep to Doom is like giving money to a call-girl. You know no matter what happens you'll still end up getting screwed.

#7 Posted by Resonance (86 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cable_Extreme said:

@RainEffect: Apocalypse could beat him by telekenetically throwing him into the sun.

Doom's mental teleporter will do the trick.

#8 Posted by Shawnbaby (10669 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to put my money on the Time-traveling High-Tech Genius Sorceror with nearly limitless resources.

#9 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

If Doom is so incredibly great at prep, then why hasn't he conquered Earth and annihilated all of the heroes?

#10 Posted by robertloucksjr (1729 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know. Apoc is pretty awesome in face to face combat. Held angry Hulk with one hand. Pretty much played with High Evolutionary.

#11 Edited by Shawnbaby (10669 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr said:

I don't know. Apoc is pretty awesome in face to face combat. Held angry Hulk with one hand. Pretty much played with High Evolutionary.

Doom with Prep has stolen the powers of Silver Surfer, Galactus, and The Beyonder.

@JamesKM716 said:

If Doom is so incredibly great at prep, then why hasn't he conquered Earth and annihilated all of the heroes?

Same reason why Lex Luthor hasn't killed Superman, and Batman hasn't wiped out crime on Earth.

#12 Posted by robertloucksjr (1729 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, but there are infinitely more foes he has faced and not taken their powers away, see the FF still have their powers. Especially, with only one day of prep.

#13 Posted by clAssymErc (112 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom with prep is like Batman with prep. Only worse seeing as how he's a villain.

Dr. Doom stomps!

#14 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3664 posts) - - Show Bio

All great points. Why I think Doom wins: 1) He's durable enough to tank shots from PR Beyonder, Galactus, IG, Hyperstorm etc. 2) Used opponents powered against them such as X-men, Mageto, Thor, Silver Surfer, Galactus and PR Beyonder. 3) He has been omnipotent twice (Stealing PR Beyonders power/Siphoned power of the life force). 4) He's 1-1-0 vs Brother Voodoo and Dr. strange remarked that Dooms knowledge of the Dark arts and his exceptional ability to learn the techniques quickly make his magic potential extremely powerful. 5) He's conquered 616 earth twice (3 times maybe). 6) His record. Doctor Doom has defeated the X-men, Fantastic Four, the Avengers, a Watcher, Odin and Thor, Silver Surfer, Brother Voodoo, Black Panter and Wakanda, Kang the Conquerer, Marquis of Death, Adam Warlock and Magus (while they had the Infinity Gauntlet AND tried to sneak attack him), took a shot from Thanos with the IG, Galactus, PR Molecule Man and his most famous feat stealing the power of the PR Beyonder. The story was retconned later but originally he DID infact steal them. As for the retcon, even after it the Beyonder was still mad and wanting to kill Doom. With prep Doom wins. Without prep I lean towards Apocalypse but Dooms shields, magic, tech and intelligence might pull him a win!

#15 Edited by Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper (597 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

If Doom is so incredibly great at prep, then why hasn't he conquered Earth and annihilated all of the heroes?

He has (twice) and he could have.

If Apocalypse is so incredibly great at prep, why hasn't he done the same?

Exactly.

Plot-driven villain-logic in a battle thread is the single worst brand of logic you could conceivably use within those parameters.

#16 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Doom has conquered Earth several times. In two of those situations he willingly gave up control of the world because he thought it was boring. He rather have everyone praise him and bow to him willingly then forcing them.

#17 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@JamesKM716: Doom has conquered Earth several times. In two of those situations he willingly gave up control of the world because he thought it was boring. He rather have everyone praise him and bow to him willingly then forcing them.

Ya. Same situation with Darkseid.

#18 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9104 posts) - - Show Bio

@Resonance said:

@Cable_Extreme said:

@RainEffect: Apocalypse could beat him by telekenetically throwing him into the sun.

Doom's mental teleporter will do the trick.

Im pretty sure you can't teleport out of telekenesis.

#19 Posted by Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper (597 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cable_Extreme said:

@Resonance said:

@Cable_Extreme said:

@RainEffect: Apocalypse could beat him by telekenetically throwing him into the sun.

Doom's mental teleporter will do the trick.

Im pretty sure you can't teleport out of telekenesis.

Teleportation is merely the act of dissipating matter and reassembling it in another location, so yes, you can.

#20 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper: It really depends on the person. Jean Grey has been able to keep Nightcrawler in place with her telekinesis, preventing him from teleporting. If the telekinetic has enough finite control to keep the matter they are holding from escaping then a teleporter wouldn't be able to escape.

#21 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3664 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper: It really depends on the person. Jean Grey has been able to keep Nightcrawler in place with her telekinesis, preventing him from teleporting. If the telekinetic has enough finite control to keep the matter they are holding from escaping then a teleporter wouldn't be able to escape.

Yes but Purple man, a powerful telepath, couldn't touch Doom. 
Emma Frost again trying to use telepathy on Doom who says no one can enter his mind. 
#22 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01: Purple Man is not a telepath. His powers work through pheromones and people with enough willpower can resist him. Daredevil does it all of the time. What is impressive about that scan is that Purple Man's powers were increased by Doom's machine and Victor was still able to resist him, despite the whole world being unable to. The second scan from Dark Cabal is ambiguous at best. We don't know if Emma was actively trying to read Victor's mind, her remark was pretty nonchalant. Also it's unclear whether it is his willpower or armor which is preventing her from reading his thoughts. Also I don't see how this is relevant with telekinesis? His armor's ability to teleport is based on technology, not inherent willpower. It is really dependent on if Apocalypse's tk control is strong enough to hold Victor in place without his armor's systems overwhelming it.

#23 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3664 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@Supermanwithatan01: Purple Man is not a telepath. His powers work through pheromones and people with enough willpower can resist him. Daredevil does it all of the time. What is impressive about that scan is that Purple Man's powers were increased by Doom's machine and Victor was still able to resist him, despite the whole world being unable to. The second scan from Dark Cabal is ambiguous at best. We don't know if Emma was actively trying to read Victor's mind, her remark was pretty nonchalant. Also it's unclear whether it is his willpower or armor which is preventing her from reading his thoughts. Also I don't see how this is relevant with telekinesis? His armor's ability to teleport is based on technology, not inherent willpower. It is really dependent on if Apocalypse's tk control is strong enough to hold Victor in place without his armor's systems overwhelming it.

Purple man has the power to manipulate people because of the pheromones. While not the same thing as telepathy it is still a form of mind control none the less. Jean Grey has never defeated Doom. Emma Frost is a telepath, the scan clearly makes the implication that she tried to enter Dooms mind. If he wasn't then the character personality of Emma would have retorted in a hostile manner due to her own arrogance. The scan shows what it shows, ambiguity IS comics. With that logic I guess since Thor is defeated by Hulk constantly then the Hulk is more powerful because in all but 1 battle Thor never comments on holding back. It's implied in the reading/Art. I agree Apoc is stronger than Emma telepathically but that is irrelevant since Dooms helmet boasts the same power as Magnetos on panal in their first outing. Secondly Magneto couldn't use his powers vs Doom because of Dooms shielding. Moving an object with your mind and controlling the form of an object are similar but I would wager controlling the raw element/field of magnetism is more impressive than any telekinesis feat of Apocs. Not to mention Dooms magic stowing Dormammu, stalemating (albeit with Strange Mephisto), defeating Brother Voodoo and the Ghost Riders. I don't see an answer for that unless I'm missing something. 
#24 Posted by Resonance (86 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cable_Extreme said:

@Resonance said:

@Cable_Extreme said:

@RainEffect: Apocalypse could beat him by telekenetically throwing him into the sun.

Doom's mental teleporter will do the trick.

Im pretty sure you can't teleport out of telekenesis.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper: It really depends on the person. Jean Grey has been able to keep Nightcrawler in place with her telekinesis, preventing him from teleporting. If the telekinetic has enough finite control to keep the matter they are holding from escaping then a teleporter wouldn't be able to escape.

Kurt was in place when Jean suppressed Kurt's teleportation which means she just doesn't want him to teleport. What Cable extreme said on the other hand was Apocalypse using telekinesis to fling Doom to the sun whereas Doom's countermeasure would be to use the teleporter to go back to their battlefield. Plus, Jean suppressed Kurt's ability whereas Doom's mental teleportation is technological in nature. If Apocalypse would want to use telekinesis on Doom then so be it. It's not like he can hold Doom forever seeing that Doom's tech can easily make telepathic or even telekinetic forces to not affect him with prep.

#25 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3664 posts) - - Show Bio
@Resonance said:

@Cable_Extreme said:

@Resonance said:

@Cable_Extreme said:

@RainEffect: Apocalypse could beat him by telekenetically throwing him into the sun.

Doom's mental teleporter will do the trick.

Im pretty sure you can't teleport out of telekenesis.

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

@Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper: It really depends on the person. Jean Grey has been able to keep Nightcrawler in place with her telekinesis, preventing him from teleporting. If the telekinetic has enough finite control to keep the matter they are holding from escaping then a teleporter wouldn't be able to escape.

Kurt was in place when Jean suppressed Kurt's teleportation which means she just doesn't want him to teleport. What Cable extreme said on the other hand was Apocalypse using telekinesis to fling Doom to the sun whereas Doom's countermeasure would be to use the teleporter to go back to their battlefield. Plus, Jean suppressed Kurt's ability whereas Doom's mental teleportation is technological in nature. If Apocalypse would want to use telekinesis on Doom then so be it. It's not like he can hold Doom forever seeing that Doom's tech can easily make telepathic or even telekinetic forces to not affect him with prep.

I agree with this. But Purple Man's powers may be pheromone based but there is som overlap with telepathy. Jean Grey, a telepath, was able to give Jessica Jones the ability to resist Purple Man's powers by implanting telepathic shields. I consider his power to be a sort of subset of general comic book mind control, at least for the purposes of comparing characters. I still don't see Telekinesis affecting Doom since similar powers have been negated before. Doom does has 2 forms of shielding one being technology which has withstood the IG and blasts from the Beyonder which I'd wager >>> Celestial tech. The other form is Magic which speaks for itself. Even T'challa used it in Doomwar as a precaution against anyone who doesn't know magic. But I do understand what you're saying.
#26 Posted by LexyLane (9 posts) - - Show Bio

This comes down to Apocalypse's tech and Dr. Doom's magic. Doom's technology and cunning ability to siphon power negate Apocalypse's abilities. The Molecule man could not defeat Doom meaning if Apocalypse tries to use his power of manipulating molecules, the power will be useless when facing Doom. Doom's knowledge and intellect while dealing with diverse opponents as well as his strength and durability would allow Doom to defeat Apocalypse.Doom is Marvel's x-factor.

#27 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7029 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01: Jean Grey's telepathic shields protected Jessica Jones from his verbal commands. Purple Man still requires verbal commands in order to control the people affected by his pheromones it isn't passive like Daken's. However I understand your basis. I was just pointing out that their have been instances where telekinetics have trumped teleportation abilities.

@Resonance: My post was in reference to someone else saying that teleporters could escape telekinetics by teleporting away. I never stated that Apocalypse would be able to overcome Doom with just telekinesis. I have already said that Doom's armor would most likely overcome his telekinesis. By no stretch of the mind do I believe that Apocalypse is capable of throwing Doom to the sun. The amount of effort that requires would be impossible for Apocalypse to accomplish, let alone any telekinetic.

I never stated an opinion on who would win in this battle. Both are geniuses with prep and have accomplished many things given enough time. The problem I have with this battle is that they both bring a factor into this battle which is very hard to adequately define. Doom with prep has accomplish a lot of things, however Apocalypses' celestial armor is very powerful in itself. Apocalypse, himself, states that he doesn't know the true capabilities of the celestial tech he wields and half of the time it does whatever it wants. Selene, who is an accomplish magic user, killed many member of the Externals, a group of individuals who were considered 'immortal' (whom she and Apocalypse were a part of), but considered Apocalypse more powerful than her and feared him. Selene has over several millenniums of magical experience, having been born over 17,000 years ago. So to simply say that Doom's magic would somehow overwhelm Apocalypses' celestial tech would be a stretch, at least in my mind. The Celestials have proven to be above most magical entities, just look at Odin's attempt to stop them, and, with that in mind, I think Apocalypses' armor may be able to resist Doom's magic. Apocalypses has some pretty impressive durability feats such as tanking Cyclop's optic blasts and Black Bolt's screams with no ill effect. Not to mention he was able to beat Strife, who is basically Cable when he had his godlike tp and tk.

In the end I don't feel comfortable enough to ascertain a conclusive winner. Both bring impressive things to the table that have to be considered. I don't think a day is enough for Doom to counteract Celestial armor, since Apocalypses over the course of thousands of years haven't been able to figure out the celestial tech himself. On the other hand, I'm not sure what Apocalypse would do in a situation versus Victor, since his armor has all of these gadgets.

#28 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9104 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Explained it better than I could, ty!

#29 Posted by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Apocalypse has a chance in a random encounter but if you give them prep time then Doom destroys, his prep feats are crazy

#30 Posted by Ultimate_Riddler (289 posts) - - Show Bio

In a random encounter, I would give the edge to Doom, but Apocalypse is no weakling. With prep? This is a joke. Doom beats Apocalypse and then travels back in time just to do it again.

#31 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

If Doom is so incredibly great at prep, then why hasn't he conquered Earth and annihilated all of the heroes?

Doom has conquered the Earth. Twice in fact.

And he hasn't annihilated all the heroes, because then Marvel would make no money.

#32 Posted by Ultimate_Riddler (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moonchilde said:

@JamesKM716 said:

If Doom is so incredibly great at prep, then why hasn't he conquered Earth and annihilated all of the heroes?

Doom has conquered the Earth. Twice in fact.

And he hasn't annihilated all the heroes, because then Marvel would make no money.

I recall Doom making a device that made him basically unbeatable, defeated the heroes of earth, conquered the world, didn't feel it was "worthy" of him and he went back to the way it was before. Doom with prep is obscenely hax.

#33 Edited by Sylvain (1640 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

"To face Doom, is to face one's END!" Doom. It doesn't matter WHO you are. You can't overcome the wicked intelligence of that man.

except if you're doctor who