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This topic is locked from further discussion.

#1 Edited by shninja (15 posts) - -

Death Battle is probably dubbed as the canon/ official internet analysis of battles between fictional characters, I find it very entertaining and backs it's results with a lot of explanations. It's just that in the most recent DB of Goku versus Superman, some comments on the youtube teaser and DB website has raised doubts in me that Boomstick and Wiz (show hosts) may not have calculated Goku's numbers accurately. I know, Goku's numbers are difficult to measure to an accurate state because the show never really introduced numbers to showcase character feats, but when I say inaccurately, I mean completely off. Here's why:

1. GT was used as SSJ4 was introduced. Therefore in this DB, GT is considered canon, apart from Future Goku whose numbers could not be estimated. However we can still measure Base Goku's strength at the beginning of GT.

2. Base GT Goku was toying with Uub, whose power level is the equivalent of Kid Buu. Though Uub was not properly trained for combat, he relied on his anger and instincts in this fight, just like how Kid Buu was in DBZ. Though obviously without the use of Ki, Uub's fighting ability is still below Kid Buu's, however his close combat abilities should be on par with Kid Buu's.

What does this imply? Goku at SSJ3 almost barely kept up with Kid Buu (who was using Ki blasts) in DBZ. So if Base GT Goku could handle Uub in close quarter combat, it implies that his power at the beginning of GT is near SSJ3. Thus using DB's gravity formula, base Goku's ability in Strength output should be at DBZ SSj3 level, which according to Death Battle is 16,000 tons. Which implicates that his maximum Strength potential should be:

16,000 (base) x 50 x 2 x 4 x 10 = 640,000,000 tons

Meaning in the versus Superman DB, his speed calculations were also off, which I'm too lazy to do right now.

3. Back to point 1, since GT Goku and SSj4 is available for judging(apart from Future Shenron Goku), the DB should have scaled Goku's power to the beginning of GT, where he was at his PRIME, before he was turned into a kid and 'powers sent into flux' - Quote by Wiz. In the Death Battle video at approximately 28:16 minutes, Boomstick clearly states they should judge Goku and regular Superman at their primes. At 27:48 Wiz states GT Goku's power levels are terribly inconsistent, and then goes on to say "Due to his untimely transformation into a child." Well, what da ya know? Prime Goku doesn't need to be judged as a chibi, he can be judged at beginning of GT.

Therefore for this particular DB, I'd say the calculations for Goku were disadvantageous because they should have used GT Goku (adult), who was clearly at his prime. Just something I thought to share with the community.

- shninja!

#2 Posted by dondave (38903 posts) - -

Pretty Satisfied

#3 Posted by TheCowman (461 posts) - -

Yes, I was unsatisfied.

The animation was disappointing.

.......... What?

#4 Posted by ComicStooge (14038 posts) - -

I was quite satisfied.

#5 Posted by shninja (15 posts) - -

It seems my title was misleading

#6 Edited by inchiso (147 posts) - -

@shninja said:

It seems my title was misleading

DBZ sucks lol i used to watch it, then i saw batman and i know its the real deal.

#7 Posted by SupermanWins465 (218 posts) - -
Extremely unsatisfied.
#8 Posted by SupremeHyperion (1545 posts) - -

@inchiso said:

@shninja said:

It seems my title was misleading

DBZ sucks, trust me i am asian and i know.

I'm not asian and I sort of know :)

Either way, Is it really important what some dudes making a video decide would happen? have your opinion about the fight and leave it at that. we all see things differently , they (death battles) were just ones who shared what they thought from what they know. everything will be ok.

#9 Posted by SoA (5255 posts) - -

it was entertaining ,rooting for Goku whole time lol

#10 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2636 posts) - -

@shninja:

I agree with what you are saying, but I still agree with the outcome of the fight. The numbers were just on Supes' side.

That being said, they totally misrepresented Goku's abilities and fighting skills, and seemingly stacked the deck against him.

There is no way that Goku wouldn't feel Supes' power fluxtuating as the fight progressed, so it stands to say that he would have figured out Supes power supply fairly early on. What he would have done with the info is up in the air, but I don't buy the blow him into the sun bit since he shouldn't have even gotten out of the atmosphere.

After Goku went SS4, with IT, Goku would/could have stopped Supes from getting above the clouds (in the setting they chose), and with that Goku could have better controlled the fight. As much as there is a speed disadvantage on Goku's side (and there is no proof Supes can fight while going the speed Batman said he could, other than the tag line, "he's as strong as he needs to be"), IT is instant, and since they took in to consideration all the movies, Goku can fight in IT. That is faster than any speed Superman can go. They just made Goku out to be a complete idiot, where in the fight, everyone knows he is the complete oposite.

In conjunction with that, they also seemed to forget that he doesn't need to put his fingers to he forhead in order to use IT in combat. There are plenty of instances were Goku used IT in conjunction with other moves, so again, that is kind of suspect.

Overall though, it's whatever...Superman won, and would win.

#11 Posted by NeonGameWave (9141 posts) - -

Goku should of won.

#12 Posted by desmond006 (598 posts) - -

I could tell they would give it to superman within the first few minutes. There was a lot of BS in my opinion but Superman would still most likely win even if they did a better job.

#13 Edited by shninja (15 posts) - -

onilordasmodeus Finally someone who's replying to the point I'm making. Good for you.

Yeah, I don't disagree about Superman winning, his numbers are WAYYYY up there. Octillion, Sextillion, that's just too crazy

I just felt that the show hosts did not understand Goku's abilities and persona as much as they should have. They sure were familiar with Superman's capabilities, though.

#14 Posted by Aronmorales (9304 posts) - -

I was pretty satisfied.

Don't tell my best friend I said that though.

#15 Posted by Nefarious (22937 posts) - -

I was satisfied.

#16 Posted by cliffrice (1015 posts) - -

While the benchmark with Supes moving a planet was impressive. wasn't GL helping with that as well?

#17 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - -

@cliffrice said:

While the benchmark with Supes moving a planet was impressive. wasn't GL helping with that as well?

In JLA? Because if you are referring to that I believe Martian Manhunter and Winder Woman helped

#18 Posted by The Stegman (26076 posts) - -

If you're a Goku fan, you're dissatisfied.

If you're a Superman fan, you're satisfied. Simple as that.

Online
#19 Posted by SuperJedi17 (300 posts) - -

The end was unsatisfying.It was quite anticlimactic.

#20 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - -

I wasn't satisfied. Im never satisfied with any of those Death battles. the only thing I like are the actual animations of the battles, they are entertaining. otherwise the show sucks IMO and it's not that good when it comes to battles. ComicVine has tons of people who could easily outclass those two guys there

#21 Edited by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - -

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/sidescrollers/sidescrollers-reactionary-reaction

Skip to 16:00 if you want to hear about their reaction to the aftermath of the Death Battle and reasoning of their calculations.

#22 Posted by Joygirl (19955 posts) - -

Quite satisfied. There was a margin of error large enough that even if they forgot a decent feat, Superman was still miles ahead.

#23 Posted by TerryBogard2014 (479 posts) - -

goku lost.

get over it lol

#24 Edited by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - -

This topic has been done to death. So, some guys put together a video and your mancrush Goku lost. Get over it. I'm sure you can find another video somewhere else where Goku wins and the Superman fanboys can be just as butthurt about that as you are about this.

#25 Posted by The Stegman (26076 posts) - -
@CerberusPrime3k said:

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/sidescrollers/sidescrollers-reactionary-reaction

Skip to 16:00 if you want to hear about their reaction to the aftermath of the Death Battle and reasoning of their calculations.

They actually explained it pretty nice, it's ridiculous how many people accused them of being ''Superman fanboys'' simply because they had him win.
Online
#26 Posted by ImmortalOne (3539 posts) - -

It's a fan video on the Internet. Get over it.

#27 Posted by xlab3000 (3356 posts) - -

Fan-made calculations over Character/Author Statements you choose

#28 Posted by spetsnaz_gru (235 posts) - -

I'ma fan of both and am quite satisfied. Very satisfied indeed. See despite my love for DBZ, I am quite pissed with the ignorance of its fanboys regarding western comics especially regarding Superman. Yes, Superman has tons of fanboys as well. True. But not as ignorant and bitter as DBZ fanboys. Calculations aside (which I think was pretty good), I loved the result as it shut up the side the needs shutting up the more.

#29 Posted by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - -

They messed up some details, but they got the outcome right: Superman should be able to beat Goku, and he fallout would be pretty damned enormous if they went all out.

#30 Posted by ImmortalOne (3539 posts) - -

Well at least they didn't lowball Superman to death. *very unsubtle insult*

#31 Posted by spacerodan (58 posts) - -

I was satisfied and thought it was fun to watch. to anyone who questioned the math done this article was made by someone else to include powerlevels. It Improves gokus numbers but not even this would have given him the win.

Ultimately the problem with Goku is his lack of quantifiable feats which was why the gravity formula was made. The formula worked as his times ten training feats, multiplied by 586 for his late series base, then by the super saiyan multipliers.

I have also noticed a number of people (no one here on the vine but many on youtube) who just watched the fight and not the research notes before and after. Thus missing a lot of what was said

In particular the rules for the match stated no power levels and no power scaling, and that any official sources that don't contradict the origional writing count. This gave Goku the movies and GT, and Superman Allstar to the Man of Steel.

Goku has an impressive fanbase but at the end of the day the numbers were against him. Wiz said it best I think, "What happans when you send someone who breaks his limits (Goku) against a man who has no limits (Superman). Only one has limits to give.

Long story short it was just for fun. the research was there of course but people will ALWAYS argue this until DC comics and Akira Toriyama themselves answer it.

Next Goku will contact Supes from other world, tell him about the namekian dragonballs, the earth will be fixed and Goku will probably ask for a round two, they will probably start to get along and Joker will recieve the scare of his life when Goku tains The Goddamn Batman in Ki usage.

#32 Posted by GunGunW (1006 posts) - -

@ImmortalOne said:

It's a fan video on the Internet. Get over it.

#33 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - -

Death Battle really doesn't care about you opinion, lol. They are intelligent individuals, and they obviously wouldn't have taken a battle like that without thinking about the negative comments that they would receive. Any way that the battle went, they knew their would be some butthurt fanboys from both sides raging at them because their favourite superhero lost. They actually made their calculations and arguments extremely well and you can tell that they did their homework... and ALOT of it. In the end, they make a lot of sense Goku is and ever will be miles behind the man of steel.

#34 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4899 posts) - -

I remember seeing Supermans Fanatics saying they didn't care what ends up being the outcome on Death Battle. That it was just an opinion, so it doesn't matter. AKA Low Key scared that DB would say GOKU wins. NOW! all I see is Superman Fanatics bragging about it.

so... yea... ... ... whatever

I honestly DGTS* I loved the match, but i wish both fanatics would stop talking about it in general. (+)

#35 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - -

Well, at least they also get the info from DBZ fan sites.

#36 Posted by chaos-soul (1419 posts) - -

The only problem i have is they they only used feat highs and not low showings for both. other wise it was awesome and opens up a whole world of cross over fanfic for me, am i the only one who wants to see goku and superman fuse to beat some super op villain?

#37 Edited by shninja (15 posts) - -

It's only my first thread here and frankly, I'm surprised at how many people here are jumping to conclusions that I'm a butthurt Goku wanker and then proceeding to insult me. (Not even referring to my opinion in the opening post!)

My disappointment that Goku is misrepresented in this Death Battle, he is made to seem like an idiot in the whole fight, and I think this is partly due to low-balled calculations. Nonetheless Supe would have won, that has been made very clear by numbers. My point of view in this thread is that I feel the Superman VS Goku Death Battle could have been executed better, and I am asking if you people feel the same or any different.

Enough with the judgmental 'Goku lost get over it' comments, guys.

#38 Posted by niBBit (719 posts) - -

Who cares about some random Death Battle between Superman and Goku its not some official thing.

#39 Posted by Miki1111 (188 posts) - -

Im very disappointed :(

#40 Posted by ImmortalOne (3539 posts) - -

@chaos-soul said:

The only problem i have is they they only used feat highs and not low showings for both. other wise it was awesome and opens up a whole world of cross over fanfic for me, am i the only one who wants to see goku and superman fuse to beat some super op villain?

I think only using the high end showings would be best, or else you have a bunch of jobber/PIS incidents where Superman is defeated by people like Lobo, who should have never defeated him in the first place, which is exactly what some people do to try to say Goku would win (another not so subtle insult directed towards someone).

#41 Posted by spetsnaz_gru (235 posts) - -

@shninja said:

It's only my first thread here and frankly, I'm surprised at how many people here are jumping to conclusions that I'm a butthurt Goku wanker and then proceeding to insult me. (Not even referring to my opinion in the opening post!)

My disappointment that Goku is misrepresented in this Death Battle, he is made to seem like an idiot in the whole fight, and I think this is partly due to low-balled calculations. Nonetheless Supe would have won, that has been made very clear by numbers. My point of view in this thread is that I feel the Superman VS Goku Death Battle could have been executed better, and I am asking if you people feel the same or any different.

Enough with the judgmental 'Goku lost get over it' comments, guys.

Goku lost. Get over it, mate. LOL! Joking. Peace!

#42 Posted by TheVoiceOfReason (747 posts) - -

I'm satisfied because they got it right.

#43 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - -
#44 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - -

I'm satisfied.

I think the only Death Battle I didn't agree with was Peach vs Zelda.

#45 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - -

@shninja said:

It's only my first thread here and frankly, I'm surprised at how many people here are jumping to conclusions that I'm a butthurt Goku wanker and then proceeding to insult me. (Not even referring to my opinion in the opening post!)

My disappointment that Goku is misrepresented in this Death Battle, he is made to seem like an idiot in the whole fight, and I think this is partly due to low-balled calculations. Nonetheless Supe would have won, that has been made very clear by numbers. My point of view in this thread is that I feel the Superman VS Goku Death Battle could have been executed better, and I am asking if you people feel the same or any different.

Enough with the judgmental 'Goku lost get over it' comments, guys.

I agree exactly with you. To my understanding many things because they were not structured in a comic format were downplayed, probably not understood as well vs the feats and knowledge of superman.

#46 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15132 posts) - -

They made Rogue beat Wonder Woman, what do you expext.

Note: I agree with the outcome of Superman vs Goku.

#47 Posted by nickzambuto (14983 posts) - -

They got a few things wrong, but I'm curious about this Superman moving the Earth feat. I've never seen that before anywhere, the closest thing is him FAILING to move Earth even with the help of Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter. Can someone shed some light on this feat?

#48 Posted by Zishun (77 posts) - -

It's funny how I didn't hear any DBZ fans having a problem with the Vegeta vs Shadow Death Battle.

#49 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - -

@Zishun said:

It's funny how I didn't hear any DBZ fans having a problem with the Vegeta vs Shadow Death Battle.

coz we Vegeta fans are more rational like our prince? lol...

#50 Posted by Zishun (77 posts) - -

@theONEtaichou said:

@Zishun said:

It's funny how I didn't hear any DBZ fans having a problem with the Vegeta vs Shadow Death Battle.

coz we Vegeta fans are more rational like our prince? lol...

LOL maybe mate, maybe.

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