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#1 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

COIE Anti Monitor with Source and Anti Life Equation

#2 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump Anyone?

#3 Posted by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

Anti-Monitor should win due to having the Source and Anti Life Equation.

#4 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to know who are really DC's top dogs.

#5 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar said:

I want to know who are really DC's top dogs.

Presence, Elaine Belloc, great evil beast, Lucifer, Michael, Spectre, Source, COIE anti monitor, WF mxy.

on topic: team 1 wins.

#6 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

I was going say "Lucifer and Michael curbstomps effortlessly", but since the Anti-Monitor has the Source and Anti Life Equation at this disposal he might stand a chance.

#7 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#8 Posted by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

Luci and Michael win after a good fight.

#9 Posted by Frocharocha (2232 posts) - - Show Bio

@JackKnight said:

I was going say "Lucifer and Michael curbstomps effortlessly", but since the Anti-Monitor has the Source and Anti Life Equation at this disposal he might stand a chance.

This, but Mich and Lucifer are still superior to Presence together. So they win.

#10 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha said:

@JackKnight said:

I was going say "Lucifer and Michael curbstomps effortlessly", but since the Anti-Monitor has the Source and Anti Life Equation at this disposal he might stand a chance.

This, but Mich and Lucifer are still superior to Presence together. So they win.

umm what? lucifer and michael are superior to the presence? you serious?

#11 Posted by Frocharocha (2232 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@Frocharocha said:

@JackKnight said:

I was going say "Lucifer and Michael curbstomps effortlessly", but since the Anti-Monitor has the Source and Anti Life Equation at this disposal he might stand a chance.

This, but Mich and Lucifer are still superior to Presence together. So they win.

umm what? lucifer and michael are superior to the presence? you serious?

Some people stated that together....yes, not sure if they were serious or not.

#12 Posted by JackKnight (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha:

No they are nowhere near as powerful as the Presence when they are working togeather, That best Togeather they are as powerful (if not alittle bit) as The Living Tribunal.

#13 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@Frocharocha said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@Frocharocha said:

@JackKnight said:

I was going say "Lucifer and Michael curbstomps effortlessly", but since the Anti-Monitor has the Source and Anti Life Equation at this disposal he might stand a chance.

This, but Mich and Lucifer are still superior to Presence together. So they win.

umm what? lucifer and michael are superior to the presence? you serious?

Some people stated that together....yes, not sure if they were serious or not.

that's wrong, perhaps they mean the living tribunal like @JackKnight said ^^^^ but no way the presence.

#14 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

The Presence is not even omnipotent (well at least Pre-52). Anyways I say Lucifer and Michael win.

#15 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@JackKnight: They posses relative omnipotence together but the Presence has absolute omnipotence so which is why he is higher than his sons.

#16 Posted by Outside_85 (8188 posts) - - Show Bio

I am going to go with Lu and Mick on this one. Despite the added help the AM has, I doubt it is enough.

#17 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: Its not help he has them within him.

#18 Posted by MonsterStomp (16162 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought Great Evil Beast was The Presence equal..

Anyway, shouldn't anyone with the backing of The Source win?

#19 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@MonsterStomp: Well technically Anti Monitor beat a Spectre Fully backed by the Source in COIE I believe.

#21 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@JackKnight: He's not omnipotent because the Great Evil Beast is his equal.

#22 Posted by Dredeuced (5356 posts) - - Show Bio

GEB was never shown to be Presence's equal. It merely wrecked everyone else and then, as soon as Presence revealed itself to GEB, they merged back into one being who was still just the Presence.

#23 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced: The Great Evil Beast is the primordial darkness which existed before the Presence. He is the opposite of the Presence and is his equal. It's pretty much implied in the Swamp Thing when they encounter it. The Presence merged with him because evil and good depended on each other, hence the ying and yang sign that appeared when they merged.

#24 Posted by Dredeuced (5356 posts) - - Show Bio

That takes a good bit of speculation. I believe it was stated that GEB was created WHEN Presence created the universe/multiverse, not existing beforehand, ala "Let there be light" meaning that a shadow is also cast or whatever. Some esoteric nonsense.

#25 Posted by Outside_85 (8188 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: Hmm, well that just makes it easier.

@JackKnight: To me it was rather obvious that he was just one of the monitors.

#26 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: Anti-Monitor didn't beat a fully amped Spectre. There was no evidence to suggest he was amped at all by the Presence. It was standard Spectre amped by all the magic present in the DC universe. Which is pretty insignificant since Spectre later on nearly destroys magic in the DC universe.

#27 Posted by dtschemmel (503 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: If spectre is shouldnt Phantom Stranger be? I mean, he just beat Spectre basically.

#28 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@dtschemmel: It's really unclear how powerful Spectre or Phantom Stranger are in the New-52. Pre-52 Spectre was more powerful than Phantom Stranger, but couldn't kill him. He was able to turn the Phantom Stranger into a mouse to bypass his immortality.

#29 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

I site the entirety of Crisis on Infinite Earths for Anti-Monitor's powers of multiversal destruction, Scans for Lucifer and Michael's power?

#30 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@dtschemmel said:

@rolldestroyer: If spectre is shouldnt Phantom Stranger be? I mean, he just beat Spectre basically.

no the spectre is more powerful than phantom stranger, the spectre has a direct link to the presence, in other words, the spectre is as powerful as the presence wants him to be.

#31 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: Let me explain to you something many seem to not understand. The Monitors shown in final crisis including Mandrakk were basically fragments of the original Monitor featured in COIE. 52 fragments to be exact. But Mandrakk started to consume his brethren realms which made him more powerful than them. Thus Anti Monitor is stronger than every monitor shown including Mandrakk for Anti Monitor himself defeated Mandrakk's "father".

#32 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1: It took an undefined amount of time (thousands, if not millions of years) for Anti-Monitor to destroy the majority of the multiverse. Michael was able to conjure a blast that could destroy the multiverse in a single instant and Lucifer took it without a scratch. That alone trumps whatever the Anti-Monitor has done.

EDIT: Here are the scans

#33 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf:

I'm gonna need scans or citations for that multiverse blast thing.

Anti-Monitor ate Earths 3 and 6 fast enough in COIE#'s 1 and 4

#34 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Yeah but here the Anti Monitor has both the Source and the Anti life Entity.

#35 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: The battle between the two f@%&ing had The Spectre saying I see things undreamt by my Creator which means even with full backing, the Anti Monitor pushed him into the impossible.

#36 Posted by Outside_85 (8188 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: No he wasn't, he was just the designated observer for that single universe, no different or any more powerful than any of the others.

#37 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: I really don't see it making a difference. The Anti-Life Equation is part of the Source, so it's redundant to include that with the Source.

#38 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: Who are you talking about again?

#39 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: There is no evidence suggesting he had the backing from the Presence. There are two incidences of him ever being at full power (one with Jim Corrigan and one with Hal Jordan). The incident with Jim Corrigan involved merging with the Source with the help of the Voice, the other is Hal merging with the Logoz. Spectre was not back fulled strength by the Presence when he fought Anti-Monitor, he was also fighting in his weakest host (which is Crispus Allen). Spectre also states that he couldn't defeat the Anti-Monitor not because he was weaker but because he couldn't defeat the Anti-Monitor without the DC heroes dying because AM was absorbing their power. In Spectre's solo series, right after COIE, he states that he was stronger than the Anti-Monitor but to due to extraneous circumstances he lost.

COIE Anti-Monitor was nearly killed by Supergirl flying through his chest. I mean he is strong, but not in the league of Michael or Lucifer. They can create whatever they want with a whim.

#40 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Crispus Allen didn't even come into the DCU till after the retcons.

#41 Posted by Outside_85 (8188 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: Wolfman's Monitor.

#42 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar: My mistake I was thinking of Final Crisis for Cripus Allen.

#43 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: That one oversaw all positive matter universes including Earth 1 Earth 2 and Earth S. What Anti Monitor did was he first took over his universe and then conquered almost an infinite amount of universes because before 1985 a new universe was created in DC after someone made a decision. The thus both Anti monitor and Monitor are multiversal. But the monitors in final crisis though were universal in power but existed within the multiverse domain to "mingle" perhaps with each other. Freaking DC Cosmology hierarchy is so confusing.

#44 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: Day of Vengeance Spectre too was not the most powerful Spectre for that one went against the Presence's will basically. Its Either COIE Spectre or Zero Hour Spectre who are the most powerful versions of Spectre.

#45 Posted by OblivionKnight (3356 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer and MIchael are likely above the Source in power. I believe it was in Lucifer #12when Lucifer merily and easily passes the Source Wall, as it watched him go by.

#46 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@OblivionKnight: But was it the same source for that was in Vertigo and that event occurred after COIE.

#47 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets say Anti Monitor also gets the powers of all the Emotional Entities including the life one.

#48 Posted by Outside_85 (8188 posts) - - Show Bio

The Monitors as a whole were against interfering with what was happening on the Germ Worlds, they would observe, nothing more. The Monitor in COIE decided against this, think of him as the Ganthet of the Monitors, even more so since like the Guardians, the Monitors were initially against being considered individuals.The story of their origins in Crisis is the one Lyra and Pirah were told, it is not difficult to imagine it would be easier for the Monitor to claim he was unique rather than trying to explain why the rest of his people didn't join in. It is not difficult either to imagine that his satellite was in contact with those of the other Monitors and had access to their databanks.

Wolfman might have created the Monitor and Anti-Monitor as two sides of the same coin. Morrison simply expanded on it.

Also, neither Monitor or Anti-Monitor were omnipotent since both ended up dead at the end of it all; the Monitor getting killed by Harbringer and the AM getting KO'ed at least seven times before the Earth-2 Superman gave him the final punch.

@AdmiralNAkbar said:

Lets say Anti Monitor also gets the powers of all the Emotional Entities including the life one.

You really don't seem to understand what kind of power Michael and Lucifer have when they are working together, the Emotional Entities add nothing to this.

#49 Posted by AdmiralNAkbar (195 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: I thought Mandrakk would be like the Ganthet of the Monitors because THE MONITOR split himself into 52 and Mandrakk I believe became the leader of these 52 monitors.

#50 Posted by BigCimmerian (7863 posts) - - Show Bio

@AdmiralNAkbar said:

@MonsterStomp: Well technically Anti Monitor beat a Spectre Fully backed by the Source in COIE I believe.

Spectre is nothing compared to Michael and Lucifer.