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#1 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio
VS

Scenario

Some Galactic mind screwing weirdo decides to have a bit of fun. He makes Afro, one of the most skilled samurai believe that Vash the Humanoid Typhoon has killed his father. He then makes Vash, one of the most skilled gunmen believe Afro Samurai has killed Rem, Knives, and Wolfwood. He then teleports both to a bar and readies himself for a show.

Rules

  • Morals off
  • Bloodlusted
  • Standard equip
  • No Angel Arm
  • Win by death
  • No information on each other

Location

  • Vash=Red
  • Afro=Black
  • Bar is slightly populated (Dozen or so people)
#2 Posted by boschePG (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: Vash stomps Afro Samurai. Especially if he killed his crew

#3 Edited by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

So these Weapons Vash has are just Standard? Nothing Special?

#4 Posted by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see Vash killing Afro with just a sidearm. A sidearm that could easily be sliced up, and fires shot that could easily be sidestepped. Afro blitzes.

#5 Posted by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see Vash killing Afro with just a sidearm. A sidearm that could easily be sliced up, and fires shot that could easily be sidestepped. Afro blitzes.

I agree unless there enchanted in some way?

#6 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime: @juiceboks: He also has his automatic pistol cyber arm and the knife in his shoe. No angel arm though.

#7 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar Oh yea almost forgot about the knife in the shoe..doesn't really match up to a katana though.

#8 Posted by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

@chaos_prime: @juiceboks: He also has his automatic pistol cyber arm and the knife in his shoe. No angel arm though.

Dont think either will be a problem for Afro Samurai in this scenario.

Afro FTW

#9 Posted by Web_Flotsam (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

Never seen Afro Samurai, but bloodlusted Vash is scary.

#10 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7196 posts) - - Show Bio

Vash stomps.

Online
#11 Posted by Floopay (8610 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals off Vash monsterstomps Afro Samurai. Vash can shoot something from several miles away with his pistol without a scope, and he's taken on people with incredible speed. Plus he's smarter, stronger, faster, more agile, better trained, older, more experienced, and far more durable.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#12 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

Morals off Vash monsterstomps Afro Samurai. Vash can shoot something from several miles away with his pistol without a scope, and he's taken on people with incredible speed. Plus he's smarter, stronger, faster, more agile, better trained, older, more experienced, and far more durable.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I'd argue against all of these honestly. Especially being faster.

#13 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (19923 posts) - - Show Bio

Serious Vash should take this. He's basically Deadpool of anime.

#14 Edited by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

Respect The Samurai :)

#15 Posted by Jeepeh (3637 posts) - - Show Bio

A pretty good fight, but has the Afro ever blocked/dodged automatic fire?

#16 Edited by Marshall_Long (1872 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted Vash would win.

#17 Posted by Rithik (171 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Vash on this on, he has the element of surprise with his machine gun arm and knife in the boot. Plus he is a seriously quite a hax aim with his gun, even while he was not serious and just being funny.

#18 Posted by Chibi_cute (4474 posts) - - Show Bio

A bloodlusted Vash is very dangerous..

Vash stomps

#19 Posted by uberhikari (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime said:

@juiceboks said:

I don't see Vash killing Afro with just a sidearm. A sidearm that could easily be sliced up, and fires shot that could easily be sidestepped. Afro blitzes.

I agree unless there enchanted in some way?

Afro Samurai blitzes Vash the Stampede? The guy who knocks bullets of course with rocks...casually? Vash speed blitzes Afro and puts a bullet between his eyes, lol.

#20 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh said:

A pretty good fight, but has the Afro ever blocked/dodged automatic fire?

His dad was a bonafide bullet-timer capable of dodging shots inches from his face, and the main antagonist effortlessly blitzed him. This is how Afro fared years later.

So no..automatic gunfire is not a problem for him.

@uberhikari Afro blocks bullets inches away from his face and casually sidesteps lasers. Knocking bullets off course before their fired is more of an accuracy/skill feat than anything else.

#21 Posted by Jeepeh (3637 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Well that wasn't creepy at all..... I didn't see anything about automatics in there though, and why did he get shot in the beginning and failed to react to the spike from the ground?

#22 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh The point was to show that bullets aren't anything new to him. If he's fast enough to weave/block bullets after their fired then he can ATLEAST aim dodge Vash. He has in fact avoided automatic gunfire in both the anime and manga

Without giving you a long-winded background lesson behind that fight..just know that he was emotionally conflicted/traumatized during the beginning (hence why you see the flashback of his dad getting decapitated). That's why he wasn't at his best..but once the spike failed to kill him(which he didn't expect at all) he got rid of his inhibitions and blitzed Justice. It also didn't help that Justice was taunting him as he fought.

#23 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: @juiceboks:

To be fair, both Vash and Afro have dealt with people of similar caliber. Afro faced an extremely skilled gunslinger and Vash has faced an easy bullet timing samurai, i have no idea how he fared against the samurai in the manga, but tbh in the anime Vash lost the fight (though morals were holding him back and Wolfwood his supposed equal quickly dealt with him)

#24 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar I think I recall that fight between Rai Dei and Vash. I would agree that Rai Dei was pretty fast(mainly due to the skates) but I'd still put Afro way above him in the speed/reflex department. I don't remember much of Wolfwood's fight with him though other than the fact that he ends it by shooting Rai as he tries to stand up.

#25 Edited by Jeepeh (3637 posts) - - Show Bio

Too close to call then.

#26 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: This is the first time anyone's ever sincerly said this on one of my threads, thank you, that means i did a decent job.

#27 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar This is a pretty good match and I agree you did a nice job putting it together. Kinda wish more people would bring in feats for Vash to compare instead of just saying "Vash stomps" without giving any reason or backing..but it is what it is.

#28 Posted by Jeepeh (3637 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: WOO! It's taken me 2 and a half years to master thread making, but i think i finally got it down, thank you! Also, i agree, i would post some feats, but i'm pretty ignorant myself(I'm just starting the second manga), and for some odd reason adding feats always seem to end threads for me. Hopefully a trigun expert can enter the thread and show him off more. I will say however that Vash showed off some great reaction skills against Dominique the Cyclops.

#30 Edited by uberhikari (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Afro Samurai is not aim-dodging Vash; Vash is already probably faster than Afro since he's weaved his way through automatic gunfire like it's nothing. But let's leave that aside for a second. What most people forget is that Vash is not a human being. He's an entirely different species called Plants. With respect to intelligence, Vash the Stampede is smarter than any human who's ever lived (at least in his universe.) His spatial awareness, ability to calculate trajectories, and precision combined with his speed is what makes him so devastating. Vash has the speed and precision to not just dodge bullets but knock bullets off course with rocks. And his precision was good enough to allow the bullets to hit their intended target but miss all vital points on the body. Afro loses this fight because of Vash's precision, speed, tactics & strategies. Plus, Afro will never manage to cut a bloodlusted Vash.

#31 Posted by Chibi_cute (4474 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar I'll have to check that fight out. Admittedly it's been a while since I've watched the series so my memory is scattered to say the least.

@uberhikari Vash's "weaving" is largely just aim dodging(it's even commented in the very beginning of the series that he predicts the path of the bullets and moves accordingly). And while he has perfected that down to borderline precog..at the core of it it's still just aim dodging. Afro has shown to not only aim dodge but see and react to bullets while they're inches away from him. I know very well that Vash is far from being a human being. I agree that he's smarter than Afro but his ingenuity and prediction skills are all he has going for him as I currently see it. Speed-wise Afro matches if not exceeds Vash's own superhuman levels. I already posted his fight with Justice that shows him blitzing the guy that blitzed his Dad who was dodging bullets after they were fired. He's also blocked arrows from a machine gun crossbow in succession and blocked lasers after they were fired. He was a blur to trained killers even as a small child with very little training. If they were at a considerable distance from each other then Vash might have a chance, but their starting distance is something Afro could close in no time at all. In CQC Vash gets torn to shreds.

#33 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks:

probably only video i'll post at 3:22-3:35 after essentially being stopped in place by paralyzing all his senses Dominique is centimeters away from Vash's chin with her barrel and Vash barely dodges the bullet, being grazed only slightly. He was able to do this three times, but the distance was greater in the other two instances and vash didn't get grazed at all.

P.S Personally trying to become residential trigun expert, so i just started reading up and taking down feats, got that feat in manga version as well, but it's on another computer.

#34 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar That's a pretty good feat that I honestly forgot about, but not one that Afro can't match IMO.

I can relate to that actually. I'd like to think I'm on an expert on Afro Samurai having watched both the anime and movie numerous times, but I have yet to use him in a debate to really showcase what I know. There's also not many people who know a lot about Afro..and I've seen him get underrated when sized up against bullet-timing characters here and there.

#35 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Hey man, when i'm done with the manga you trying to do an official debate with these characters? Don't know too much on Afro myself and Trigun has been forgotten by many apparently, plus even though they're technically "unknown" they're two pretty popular characters so it's sure to get at least some attention. I'll probably be done in a week or so, so you can collect a good amount of both manga and anime feats.

#36 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar Mos def. I've recently compiled a good list of feats, and I've been itching to try them out. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate pitting these two against each other in a good debate since, like you said, they're fairly popular. A week or two sounds fine, just holla at me whenever you're ready.

#37 Posted by uberhikari (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: First, you think Vash aim-dodged his way through this?

Skip to 3:00 minutes in. He's being fired on from multiple angles by people wielding automatic machine guns, shotguns, etc. He never gets hit once...not even by a ricochet. We're talking about hundreds of rounds of automatic machine gun bullets and shotgun shells. The saloon he was in was reduced to absolute rubble; literally, nothing was left standing except the chair he was sitting on and the table he was sitting at. Even if we assume that Vash was aim-dodging here, which would be ridiculous because a person can't aim-dodge by sitting in the same spot when they're being fired on from multiple angles with hundreds of rounds, his ability to calculate the trajectory of every bullet including how they'll ricochet off the surrounding area (and not hit him) + his spatial awareness is mind-boggling. Afro Samurai has never faced an opponent who can utilize their environment to this degree and has spatial awareness better than Cyclops.

And here's how precise Vash can be with rocks:

Skip to about 15:20. Notice how casually Vash does this; he's tossing the rocks up and down and his eyes are closed. And not only is he fast enough and precise enough to actually hit the bullets with rocks but it's even more impressive than that. It's a quick draw competition so Vash has to precisely time his throw by anticipating when the person will draw their gun, and on top of this he has to see who will draw their gun faster in order to know which bullets from which gun he'll have to deflect. And on top of this he can't simply knock the bullets off course because that'll be suspicious. Like I said, it's a quick draw competition and deaths are expected: So, Vash has to knock the bullets off course in such a way that they still hit their intended target but miss their vital spots. Again, Vash's ability to calculate trajectories, calculate scenarios, and utilize his spatial awareness is something that Afro Samurai has never encountered.

As I stated before, I very seriously doubt that Afro Samurai could hit a bloodlusted Vash. Because Vash is essentially a pacifist almost all his feats are done either very casually or when he's not that serious or when he's taking unnecessary risks to avoid hurting his opponent. If he's bloodlusted no such restrictions will apply.

#38 Edited by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh said:

A pretty good fight, but has the Afro ever blocked/dodged automatic fire?

Did u see the video i posted? at 3.34 a A1 has Afro locked in his sights with a chain Gun!!

Afro Samurai aint getting blitzed here imo.

#39 Posted by thelaughingman_Aoi (39 posts) - - Show Bio

Going to have to go with Vash here. If he is blood lusted he isn't holding anything back. Vash is very skilled at shooting not knocking the samurai but Vash has feats of hitting targets with ricochet. Hitting moving targets while he is moving. etc... All with 100% accuracy. Don't see the samurai taking this.

#40 Edited by thelocust619 (2195 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: the aim dodge statement was a hypothesis made by a character who had no way of knowing Vash's true speed. He is genuinely beyond aim-dodging and expressed this many times, though he can do that too. Afro is fast as flock but his reaction speeds are nowhere near Vash. At best he can possibly match casual Vash, not morals off. This fight looks fair, but its genuinely not to anyone who knows both series well. Afro is supersonic with hypersonic movements, Vash is hypersonic with massively hypersonic movements.

I love how someone commented on the guns like "yea, that's got nothing on a katana" lmao! I mean Ik its anime, but still. Theyre not even considering who has the gun.

Vash will dash in, shoot Afro's sword from the side at point blank range and break it (he blocks bullets by hitting them with the edge or perfectly redirecting them). This sword is not special, it will break of shot straight on from the side just like any sword, even if it takes multiple shots. Next go the knees and shoulders.

But hey, let's give a less likely scenario. Vash takes pot shots from afar...Afro blocks them easilly, comes in for a strike that Vash straight up bullet times and wins with a heavy gun butt.

Why does this happen? Because while Afro can catch bullets with his sword in a battle frenzy, Vash can pick up pebbles and flick them at bullet velocity to change their trajectories....while still casual. its common sense which is faster

Afro can dodge one automatic weapon, Vash can dodge dozens THROUGH A WALL. No aim dodge there lol

#41 Edited by Jeepeh (3637 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by Chibi_cute (4474 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari Okay I think you're reading too much into what occured in the very first episode. One of two things could have happened there.

1. The goons missed one guy while blindly shooting in one general direction hoping to land some shots..and Vash survived through sheer luck/predicting where the bullets were gonna be and decided to stay where he was knowing they wouldn't touch him.

2. Vash used the sign to block the bullets protecting him, his drink, the table the drink was on, and the stool he was sitting on as the goons blindly fired in his general direction. Which would make more sense considering the sign coincidentally was tall enough to cover him and the items he was interacting with at the time and the it fell to the ground right before they started firing. I think the animators made it pretty clear the sign is what protected him from the onslaught.

If he did do what you said and dodged every single shot that he would have no way of seeing due to the blinding cloud of dust, then how do you explain his drink, stool, and table miraculously coming out unharmed? Not only that, but he was in the exact same position he was before any of this even started. I find it hard to believe that he got up from his seat, danced around every single bullet from attackers he couldn't even see, then sat back down in the exact position with his completely untouched furniture.

#44 Edited by uberhikari (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Why are you accusing me of saying something that I clearly didn't say or imply? When did I ever say or imply that Vash "got up from his seat, danced around every single bullet from attackers he couldn't even see, then sat back down in the exact position with his completely untouched furniture"? Here's what I actually said:

Even if we assume that Vash was aim-dodging here, which would be ridiculous because a person can't aim-dodge by sitting in the same spot when they're being fired on from multiple angles with hundreds of rounds, his ability to calculate the trajectory of every bullet including how they'll ricochet off the surrounding area (and not hit him) + his spatial awareness is mind-boggling.

Do you see the difference between how you paraphrased me and what I actually said? I very clearly said that Vash was always sitting in the same spot. I never said he got up from the table and danced around. Now, let's clear up some other things.

1. Skip to exactly 3:13 in the video and you'll see that the gunfire starts either slightly before the plaque hits the ground or simultaneously with the plaque hitting the ground. Vash never moved from his spot which means he must have calculated this from the very beginning. From the time the top half of the building was sheared off, from the time the goons raised their weapons, from the time the plaque was sent into the sky, Vash never moves. That means his calculation of the trajectory of the plaque (and where it would land), his calculation of the time the plaque would land (and his timing had to be perfect because it's useless if the plaque lands a significant time after the gunfire starts), his calculation of when the gunfire would start, and his calculation of the trajectory of the bullets were all perfectly synchronized. Think about how quickly he has to calculate this. Since Vash never even moves when the top half of the building is sheared off he must have calculated this within a split second. Vash's ability to calculate combined with his ability to use his surroundings to their maximum effect is what makes him extremely difficult to deal with.

Like I said before, I very seriously doubt Afro Samurai could touch a bloodlusted Vash. The only reason Vash ever gets touched is because of his moral restraints. Sometimes Vash will directly put himself in a position to be injured in order to save someone's life. Like this example:

Skip to 13:58. The building Vash is in is completely destroyed. There's debris falling all over the place and there's about 5-6 women in the building with him. Not only is Vash able to save every single woman without any injuries but he does this casually, as evidenced by the fact that he writes, "Beat Me!! Just do it!" and a smiley face on the hand. Vash is calculating multiple variables, simultaneously, in a split second...casually. And neither him or the people he's protecting get hurt. It's ridiculous, lol. Pay attention at 16:30, there's even a woman trapped under concrete and she doesn't get hurt/crushed.

If we're talking about a bloodlusted Vash who doesn't hold back, then all bets are off.

2. The idea that the smoke cloud is so thick that Vash can't see the trajectory the bullets take is just speculation. Vash has already demonstrated superhuman sensory perceptions, so it does matter. But even if it were true that would just make the feat more impressive, which would actually help me.

3. Now, this was the initial point I was trying to make from the very beginning: Vash the Stampede never gets hit by a bullet, not even a ricochet. How is this possible? You think it was just luck that hundreds of rounds of automatic machine gun bullets + shotgun shells are being fired all around him but he never gets hit by a ricochet? The plaque doesn't protect him from any other angle except the left. And when the gunfire stops you can clearly see that Vash is literally sitting in the middle of the establishment; there are bullet holes in the slabs of concrete behind him. (So your claim about the goons shooting blindly in his general direction doesn't matter because Vash was sitting right in the middle of it since he was sitting in the middle of where the establishment used to be.)

And this should really make what I'm saying crystal clear, skip to precisely 2:26 in the video. Do you see where Vash is sitting? Vash wasn't sitting at a table like the other two guys playing cards. He was sitting at the bar on a stool. Why is this significant? Skip to exactly 2:40. What do you notice? Vash's left-hand side is facing the front of the bar. So when the boomerang shears the building in half it comes from Vash's left. In order words, the bar is perpendicular to the front of the saloon. Now, skip to 3:46 and you'll see that everything I've just said is confirmed. When the plaque falls and the camera pans out Vash's left is to the gunmen. What do you notice? All the wood that made up the bar is GONE. So, what happened? Vash was sitting at the bar when everything starts, which means his left-hand side is to the gunmen and the bar is in front of him. The plaque falls to the left of him, and the gunfire starts. But you're asking: Why didn't the plaque protect the bar just like it protected Vash? Well, it did because there's still enough of the bar left for Vash to put his drink down but the ricochet destroyed everything else. Like I said, the plaque only protects Vash from one angle, his left-hand side. And it's physically impossible for all of the bar on Vash's right-hand side to be destroyed if he's being fired on from the left because bullets don't curve. So the $1 million question is: Why doesn't Vash also get hit by the ricochet? I certainly don't think you can say it's luck. Vash does stuff like this too often for it to be luck.

#45 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: I'll try, lol, once i'm finished with the manga at least.

#46 Edited by Juiceboks (7897 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari My mistake. I took what you said earlier and thought you were applying it to that specific feat. So we're in agreement on what happened then it would appear, which like most of his feats is one of more skill and prediction rather than pure speed. As for how the right side was destroyed..if you look at 3:38 some of the guys were facing the bar at an angle. A simple explanation yes..but I honestly don't think the animators meant to destroy the right side to convey a point.

And while I agree it isn't luck, it doesn't make him faster or a deadlier combatant than Afro. For that..I suggest we look at his one on one fights. Namely the one's where he's serious like against Gasback and Knives. To say that the only reason he ever gets tagged is because of moral restraints is cutting him a HUGE break. In his fight with Knives he ends up getting shot. I strongly believe Afro is fast and skilled enough to tag him in CQC.

#47 Posted by uberhikari (2459 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks:

My mistake. I took what you said earlier and thought you were applying it to that specific feat. So we're in agreement on what happened then it would appear, which like most of his feats is one of more skill and prediction rather than pure speed. As for how the right side was destroyed..if you look at 3:38 some of the guys were facing the bar at an angle. A simple explanation yes..but I honestly don't think the animators meant to destroy the right side to convey a point.

If some of the shooters were firing at an angle how come they hit the bar but missed Vash? After all, Vash is sitting at the bar. How is it possible they were firing at such an angle that they hit everything around Vash but not Vash? The physics doesn't work.

Also, I don't care about what an author intended. Neither you nor I know what an author intended so the only thing we can do is go by what's objectively shown. And what is objectively shown is that either the gunmans' bullets don't follow the laws of physics, Vash calculated the trajectory of hundreds of rounds fired from multiple automatic weapons, or he simply dodged without having to leave his seat. Those seem to be the only explanation given what we see in the video.

And while I agree it isn't luck, it doesn't make him faster or a deadlier combatant than Afro. For that..I suggest we look at his one on one fights. Namely the one's where he's serious like against Gasback and Knives. To say that the only reason he ever gets tagged is because of moral restraints is cutting him a HUGE break. In his fight with Knives he ends up getting shot. I strongly believe Afro is fast and skilled enough to tag him in CQC.

First, if someone can calculate the trajectory and predict the path of hundreds of rounds of automatic gunfire and calculate how they can optimally use their surrounds to their maximum advantage within a split second, how does that not make them a deadlier combatant? I wouldn't say Vash is on the level of Midnighter because Midnighter actually has a supercomputer, but that's what kind of fight this would be for Afro. He's already at a disadvantage.

Second, I haven't seen Vash's fight with Gasback or the movie it comes from, so I can't comment. But Knives is a Plant just like Vash so the fact that he can tag Vash isn't surprising. Especially since Knives has no moral restrictions while Vash does. Also, can you point to a time in the anime when Vash actually got tagged by someone while he was serious? I can't remember any. It's ridiculously difficult to actually hit Vash. He was inside of a building that basically collapsed on top of him and not only did he not get hit but he stopped several other people from being hit by any debris. That's insane spatial awareness. And the fact that this would be a CQC fight doesn't mean anything. Spatial awareness isn't something that diminishes simply because your opponent gets closer to you.

A bloodlusted Vash would have no problem manipulating Afro Samurai in order to get him in a position where he can be shot while it will be incredibly difficult for Afro to do the same to Vash.

#48 Posted by boschePG (2176 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

Morals off Vash monsterstomps Afro Samurai. Vash can shoot something from several miles away with his pistol without a scope, and he's taken on people with incredible speed. Plus he's smarter, stronger, faster, more agile, better trained, older, more experienced, and far more durable.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

pretty much

#49 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@floopay said:

Morals off Vash monsterstomps Afro Samurai. Vash can shoot something from several miles away with his pistol without a scope, and he's taken on people with incredible speed. Plus he's smarter, stronger, faster, more agile, better trained, older, more experienced, and far more durable.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

pretty much

#50 Posted by Nuffs (709 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe either version of Vash wins.

Vash can really create hole in moon, can Afro do that?

Vash wins almost instantly.

Manga Vash wins even faster.