#1 Edited by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

vs.

Location

A standard cargo yard by the water. Midday. Begin 30 feet apart.

Rules

  • Random encounter.
  • Standard gear.
  • In character.
  • Standard elimination rules apply.
  • Do yourself a favor and elaborate why you support a team instead of just saying the team name.
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#2 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

I see the latest episode inspired the location of the fight ;)

Now, it's kind of hard to compare the fighting styles between the two series. Alongside Splinter, it's pretty obvious that Shredder is amongst the best martial artists in that universe (as shown so far), while the same can't really be said for Sportsmaster and his daughter. Although, Sporstmaster was able to take on Deathstroke for a short while which was an impressive feat all on it's own. Regardless, Shredder absolutely decimated the Turtles without even exerting himself the first time and toyed with them recently. I'd say he can tear through whatever weaponry SM might try to utilize against him and it's clear he has a speed and skill advantage.

As for Karai, she seems to be on an even standing with Leonardo, who has been shown to be the most skilled of the Turtles and is also extremely agile on top of being an expert with a blade. I'd say she has Artemis outranked in both combat speed and agility whilst they may be on an even footing in terms of bladed combat. Karai might have an edge in hand-to-hand though and she's been shown to disarm Leo so the same could be done here.

In the end, I'd say Shredder disposes of SM with little effort while Karai might have trouble with Artemis until her father comes to her aid (if need be).

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#3 Edited by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget: I initially wanted to use Deathstroke and Artemis, but I feel that would have resulted in a sea of "Deathstroke solos" remarks. While Sportsmaster isn't the best, I figured his displays and gear in the final episodes (vs. Black Manta was fantastic) were more than enough to at least make this far more interesting.

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#4 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

I figured his displays and gear in the final episodes (vs. Black Manta was fantastic) were more than enough to at least make this far more interesting.

Fair enough and that fight was one of the highlights of the series, although considering that fact, Black Manta wasn't really a skilled combatant and just kept his distance, depending on his helmet's blasts to keep SM at bay. Nonetheless, I'd say SM overpowering Roy(clone) and holding his own against Deathstroke until Miss Martian incapacitated him was enough to solidify him in this bout. But man... Shredder is a beast, as is Splinter, especially when he was brainwashed and didn't "hold back".

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#5 Posted by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

I figured his displays and gear in the final episodes (vs. Black Manta was fantastic) were more than enough to at least make this far more interesting.

Fair enough and that fight was one of the highlights of the series, although considering that fact, Black Manta wasn't really a skilled combatant and just kept his distance, depending on his helmet's blasts to keep SM at bay. Nonetheless, I'd say SM overpowering Roy(clone) and holding his own against Deathstroke until Miss Martian incapacitated him was enough to solidify him in this bout. But man... Shredder is a beast, as is Splinter, especially when he was brainwashed and didn't "hold back".

Totally, but Shredder's arrogance is sure to keep Sportsmaster in the game longer. I know he doesn't go lethal because we're dealing with a kids show, but that's how the character consistently operates and I imagine the DC villain has what it takes to endure a beating for at least a decent amount of time -- and hopefully said time would grant him an opportunity or two to creatively use his weapons in the environment.

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#6 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Totally, but Shredder's arrogance is sure to keep Sportsmaster in the game longer. I know he doesn't go lethal because we're dealing with a kids show, but that's how the character consistently operates and I imagine the DC villain has what it takes to endure a beating for at least a decent amount of time -- and hopefully said time would grant him an opportunity or two to creatively use his weapons in the environment.

True enough and a very solid point. Shredder is a cocky fighter, believing himself to be the best despite what the facts may prove. Instead of quickly using his superior skill, speed and strength, he instead chose to toy with the Turtles out of his need for the dramatic and vengeance. So yeah, I'd say that would allow SM to hang in with Shredder for a decent amount of time and considering he is a dirty fighter, he might be able to land a few solid hits to at least surprise Shredder.

What's your opinion on Karai and Artemis though? I feel as if they're mostly evenly matched with perhaps Karai holding an agility advantage.

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#7 Edited by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

@deranged_midget said:

@k4tzm4n said:

Totally, but Shredder's arrogance is sure to keep Sportsmaster in the game longer. I know he doesn't go lethal because we're dealing with a kids show, but that's how the character consistently operates and I imagine the DC villain has what it takes to endure a beating for at least a decent amount of time -- and hopefully said time would grant him an opportunity or two to creatively use his weapons in the environment.

True enough and a very solid point. Shredder is a cocky fighter, believing himself to be the best despite what the facts may prove. Instead of quickly using his superior skill, speed and strength, he instead chose to toy with the Turtles out of his need for the dramatic and vengeance. So yeah, I'd say that would allow SM to hang in with Shredder for a decent amount of time and considering he is a dirty fighter, he might be able to land a few solid hits to at least surprise Shredder.

What's your opinion on Karai and Artemis though? I feel as if they're mostly evenly matched with perhaps Karai holding an agility advantage.

Honestly, Karai's a tough one to judge accurately. One moment she humiliates Leo, another she humiliates all of the Turtles at once... then, she stalemates Leo when she legitimately wants to beat him. As for Artemis, I still haven't seen Season 1, so I'm sure i'm missing out on a lot of her feats. What I have seen is quite impressive, though. That said, there was often a factor since she was sometimes against characters who had no intention of beating her since they knew her true identity at the time.

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#8 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Honestly, Karai's a tough one to judge accurately. One moment she humiliates Leo, another she humiliates all of the Turtles at once... then, she stalemates Leo when she legitimately wants to beat him. As for Artemis, I still haven't seen Season 1, so I'm sure i'm missing out on a lot of her feats. What I have seen is quite impressive, though. That said, there was often a factor since she was sometimes against characters who had no intention of beating her since they knew her true identity at the time.

Well it could be safe to state that Leo never truly wished to fight her as he always wanted to bring her over to their side or you know... because he has a crush on her. I feel as if considering the circumstances in the latest episode, he either had no choice but to fight her seriously or her anger clouded her usual calm mindset and instinct took over.

Yeah, Artemis in the second season never really fought seriously against that many opponents and most of the time when she did, it was at the aid of Kaldur and other members of the Light. Although, she is impressive in hand-to-hand and with weaponry, but I feel she lacks speed and agility feats to keep up with Karai.

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#9 Edited by Feresta (8 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Karai is too good for Artemis in close combat and main hope would be Artemis arrows. Assuming Shredder or Karai are not aware of extra applications and do not realize fast enough might be able to make a difference I think. Pure melee wise Sportmaster brought the wrong daugther for this ;)

#10 Edited by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

Honestly, Karai's a tough one to judge accurately. One moment she humiliates Leo, another she humiliates all of the Turtles at once... then, she stalemates Leo when she legitimately wants to beat him. As for Artemis, I still haven't seen Season 1, so I'm sure i'm missing out on a lot of her feats. What I have seen is quite impressive, though. That said, there was often a factor since she was sometimes against characters who had no intention of beating her since they knew her true identity at the time.

Well it could be safe to state that Leo never truly wished to fight her as he always wanted to bring her over to their side or you know... because he has a crush on her. I feel as if considering the circumstances in the latest episode, he either had no choice but to fight her seriously or her anger clouded her usual calm mindset and instinct took over.

Yeah, Artemis in the second season never really fought seriously against that many opponents and most of the time when she did, it was at the aid of Kaldur and other members of the Light. Although, she is impressive in hand-to-hand and with weaponry, but I feel she lacks speed and agility feats to keep up with Karai.

My memory is a bit rusty, but wasn't she clearly the superior in their first encounter? Now, it's of course possible that her looks played a role in distracting him, but like I said, fuzzy memory on it.

Regardless, Kelly Hu says we're getting a Karai heavy episode soon.

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#11 Posted by Feresta (8 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:
@deranged_midget said:

@k4tzm4n said:

Honestly, Karai's a tough one to judge accurately. One moment she humiliates Leo, another she humiliates all of the Turtles at once... then, she stalemates Leo when she legitimately wants to beat him. As for Artemis, I still haven't seen Season 1, so I'm sure i'm missing out on a lot of her feats. What I have seen is quite impressive, though. That said, there was often a factor since she was sometimes against characters who had no intention of beating her since they knew her true identity at the time.

Well it could be safe to state that Leo never truly wished to fight her as he always wanted to bring her over to their side or you know... because he has a crush on her. I feel as if considering the circumstances in the latest episode, he either had no choice but to fight her seriously or her anger clouded her usual calm mindset and instinct took over.

Yeah, Artemis in the second season never really fought seriously against that many opponents and most of the time when she did, it was at the aid of Kaldur and other members of the Light. Although, she is impressive in hand-to-hand and with weaponry, but I feel she lacks speed and agility feats to keep up with Karai.

My memory is a bit rusty, but wasn't she clearly the superior in their first encounter? Now, it's of course possible that her looks played a role in distracting him, but like I said, fuzzy memory on it.

Regardless, Kelly Hu says we're getting a Karai heavy episode soon.

Most likely the episode presented this saturday.

#12 Edited by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

@feresta: Agreed. During my chat with her she said Karai may even square off against Dogpound/Fishface.

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#13 Edited by Raw_Material (3296 posts) - - Show Bio

Shredder and Karai, especially after the last episode "Enemy of my Enemy".

#14 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

My memory is a bit rusty, but wasn't she clearly the superior in their first encounter? Now, it's of course possible that her looks played a role in distracting him, but like I said, fuzzy memory on it.

Regardless, Kelly Hu says we're getting a Karai heavy episode soon.

INDUBITABLY! Although, I don't think either Leo nor Karai were really trying in their first encounter, or any that really followed. It wasn't until the latest episode "Enemy of my Enemy", did Karai finally let loose on Leo after seeing the attempts on her father's life.

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#15 Edited by BlueLantern1995 (2448 posts) - - Show Bio

Sportsmaster hasn't done anything to make him even able to stand toe to toe with either one of them and despite Artemis' feats. Artemis vs both Shredder and Karai is impossible for her to win(especially since either one should beat her anyway especially Shredder).

#16 Posted by k4tzm4n (45907 posts) - - Show Bio

Sportsmaster hasn't done anything to make him even able to stand toe to toe with either one of them and despite Artemis' feats. Artemis vs both Shredder and Karai is impossible for her to win(especially since either one should beat her anyway especially Shredder).

Based on the last few episodes, I see no reason why he couldn't hold his own against Karai.

@k4tzm4n said:

My memory is a bit rusty, but wasn't she clearly the superior in their first encounter? Now, it's of course possible that her looks played a role in distracting him, but like I said, fuzzy memory on it.

Regardless, Kelly Hu says we're getting a Karai heavy episode soon.

INDUBITABLY! Although, I don't think either Leo nor Karai were really trying in their first encounter, or any that really followed. It wasn't until the latest episode "Enemy of my Enemy", did Karai finally let loose on Leo after seeing the attempts on her father's life.

LEO ALWAYS BRINGS HIS "A" GAME. ALWAYS.

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#17 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: PFFT! SON PLEASE! IT'S LEO! HE HOLDS BACK LIKE A BAUWSE!

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#18 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3165 posts) - - Show Bio

Since we're using the 2012 versions it's hard to say. Karai has fought evenly with Leonardo (twice) and fought evenly with Raphael (once). To me Karai's skills are primarily sword-based, as her only H2H feat thus far was curbstomping someone far below Artemis/Tigress in skill level. With this in mind Tigress didn't too bad against Nightwing, who himself had curbstomped Lagoon Boy in a spar. Hmm....I give it to Karai if Tigress opts to take her in a swordfight and to Tigress if she sticks to using hand-to-hand skills.

Concerning Shredder Vs. Sportsmaster, Shredder handed the Turtles a fierce whooping while Sportsmaster did very well against Black Manta and fought evenly with Deathstroke. Of course having said that this is a DS who has few feats and lost to Aqualad off-screen. Going by this, I'd actually say Team 1 has a solid chance of winning. Shredder Vs. Sportsmaster to me could go either way while Karai Vs. Tigress again, depends on how Tigress chooses to approach the fight.

#19 Posted by laflux (16218 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Is it me or was Deathstroke relatively featless from Young Justice? He took out Lagoon Boy, and had a short tussle with Sports master. Miss Martian posed as him when the Reach and Light had that meeting, so the combat feats there are non- applicable. Which makes the Deathstroke Solo's comments more silly. As for the battle, I'm tending to @deranged_midget way of seeing things.....

As for Animated battles, how would you feel about using characters from The Batman? A Plethora of the villains (Joker, Penguin, Cat woman, Ragdoll etc) were actually very accomplished H2H combatants, so it would be interesting to pit them against some streets from Young Justice.