Ancient Sith vs Modern Jedi

Ancient Sith: Exar Kun, Darth Revan and Darth Nihilus

Modern Jedi: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda and Mace Windu

Rules:

- In character

- No prep

- Perfect teamwork

- Fight takes place on Korriban

Callouts

Apologies if you were called out and weren't interested or weren't called out and were interested

I'm tempted to say Nihilus could one-shot Windu and Obi-Wan, but I'm not sure about Yoda. I feel like the combined might of Revan, Nihilus, and Exar Kun could overwhelm Yoda once Obi-Wan and Windu are down.

Team 1.I believe Nihilus could solo.Unless there is another wound in the force on the opposite team,the team with Nihilus wins for me.His draining capabilities are not fully force generated and there is a reason he is called a wound in the force.Plus,the only reason he lost in the first place was the fact that he got severely depowered and even then it wasnt that easy to put him down.

@thenoobstomper: Nihilus isn't soloing this.

I believe Jedi. But I'm not 100% familiar on nihilus if someone would fill me in.

Nihilius tips this too far in the Sith's favor. He is very powerful and only Yoda stands a chance at besting him. Exar Kun is stronger than either Mace or Obi-Wan and Revan can at the very least hold his own against either of the two. It's pretty much a stomp for the sith team

Wouldn't Mace's vaapad counter exar's darkside powers?

Windu destroyed half army of super battle droids with with the force alone... Besides, with vaadpad, shatterpoint and his incredibly skill I think Mace can take Exar Kun.

I'm not going to argue the parameters of a Force contest between Mace Windu and Exar Kun, as Windu was able to, when immersed in the dark depths of Vaapad, to fend off against a storm of Force lightning wielded by "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" (confirmed in the Complete Visual Dictionary). However, I will also say that, like Sidious, Exar seems to outmatch Mace in the Force and that Sidious's lightning was repulsed only when Mace was immersed in Vaapad -- which according to the novelization, takes a bit of time. Should Kun pull off an amulet blast or whatnot before such an event, I could see him defeating Mace with the Force.

However, I'd wager that it's nigh-impossible for a dark sider to defeat Mace Windu in a prolonged lightsaber duel -- quite possibly DE Sidious himself. Now, my justification for such is the novelization's canon confirmation on the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint. The fact that he forced Count Dooku to flee from him on Boz Pity (even after the Sith Lord instructed his minions to "leave the Jedi to him!" and then defeated Dooku's even more powerful master, Sidious, in a lightsaber duel gives me reason to think so. That Vaapad and Shatterpoint apply in all cases -- unless the opponent's form and character is absolutely flawless (is Kun perfect?).

Kun, like the Force, would have to be quick about executing a victory. Otherwise, I'd say Mace's Vaapad eventually nullifies any saber-oriented advantages the Dark Lord may have -- and eventually beheads him in a most brutal fashion.

ancient sith

I hate Nihilus. I really do. But because he is so freakishly OP he's going to solo here.

F***ing LOL @ Nihilus soloing. More KotoR fanboys commenting nonsense.

The fight you are talking about was arguably thrown by Sideous, none of his other feats (lightsaber or otherwise) are consistent with that fight and the second Sideous thought he was in danger he blew Mace away with one barrage of lightning. Also Kun has among the best lightsaber and durability feats in all of EU Star Wars, so I doubt Mace would be able to flat out stomp him in a lightsaber duel. Kun went down in history as having unparalleled lightsaber prowess during his time as a Jedi and he is considered to be the foremost master of the saberstaff. The weight of his lightsaber blows alone was enough to be heard for miles and he was able to blitz and beat jedi blademasters with ease. Now I'm not downplaying Mace's skill, as well as the potency of Vaapad, only arguing that Kun would be very difficult for even the best to beat in in lightsabre duel. In the force is where I think Kun has his advantage. Exar Kun is an absolute monster and easily above any other force user of his time. Kip Durron while amped described his power as feeble compared to Kun's, and Kyp was regarded as potentially being as powerful as Darth Vader by Luke Skywalker at this point in time. Here is a direct quote from luke:

If Kyp had fallen to the dark side, he could become another Darth Vader. Perhaps even worse…

Luke later compared Exar Kun to Sideous, saying they were the two most powerful Sith Lords he had ever faced. As for direct feats, as a spirit, with a severely weakened ability to affect the physical realm, and without drawing on anything, Kun choked all twelve of Luke Skywalker's students, including Kirana Ti, Kam Solusar, Tionne, Streen, Cilghal, Dorsk 81, and Jaina and Jacen Solo, simultaneously. He was only stopped by Streen's skill with alter environment, which he used to push the air into all of their lungs, and whats more he knows essence transfer, which makes him near impossible to kill provided he can get it off

Well then let me know when any of these Jedi even come close to having planetary force abilities, let alone actual planet busting.

FYI, don't trash talk when you can't even back up your own arguments.

I don't think Nihilus ever busted a planet. He has Multi star destroyer level TK and has planet level drain but when did he actually bust a planet??

In the comics. I'll try to dig up the scan.

He didn't destroy the entire planet itself with TK, but destroyed the surface of it. He force drained the entire planet and wiped out all life on it first, of course.

Gallery

"This is my world. My people, the Miraluka, see its beauty not with their eyes, but through the Force. They do not see it has less than an hour to live. Katarr was a world filled with Force sensitives, and it called to my lord. Aboard his dead ship he hungered through the Force, drew sustenance from death. My people never saw his face when he struck, but they heard his voice. When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died. The destruction of Katarr echoed through the Force, the screaming of countless lives. As the Miraluka see life through the Force, we can see death as well."

―Visas Marr (Star Wars: Unseen, Unheard)

"To kill on such a scale... it's impossible. I don't understand - it would have taken several Republic cruisers to destroy the surface of Katarr."

"To see everything around you extinguished... it... was if I was blinded. It was as if the Force had... been bled from the world. I was the only living thing remaining on the planet of Katar... and my life, my agony, was a flicker in the darkness that was the planet. All that I had been connected to had been severed."

―Meetra Surik and Visas Marr (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

"Dark times had come to the Republic. Reconstruction from the Jedi Civil War was still ongoing, and the Jedi Order’s numbers were dwindling. Worse, many Jedi sensed a new Sith threat emerging but could not pinpoint the source. Finally, the Jedi Council called a conclave on the Miraluka colony of Katarr. The order’s Masters, including the legendary Vandar Tokare, gathered to discuss the possibility that the Sith had returned. They did not know that Darth Nihilus, a being of pure hunger and dark side power, was approaching the colony.

Drawn to the assembled Masters, Nihilus devoured the life energy of everything on Katarr. Millions of Miraluka died, along with most of the Jedi Order’s senior members. Walking Katarr’s lifeless surface later, Darth Nihilus came across the only survivor: the traumatized Miraluka Visas Marr, whom Nihilus took as his apprentice."

―The Conclave at Katarr Codex Entry (Star Wars: The Old Republic)

"Darth Nihilus began his Jedi purge by obliterating the planet of Katarr, where a secret conclave of the most powerful Jedi were taking place."

―The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

"The last known Convocation occured on Katarr some 3,952 years before the Battle of Yavin. The assembled Jedi were slaughtered when the Sith Lord Darth Nihilus laid waste to the planet."

―The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

@darthant66- darthant66

Hush little fanboy, don't say a word...

That Nihilus solos this is quite frankly absurd.

Yoda craps on him and that's a fact,

You think Nihilus solos and you're on crack.

Yoda doesn't crap on him, not with his feats. I would say that he would win with difficulty. How I think this fight goes is that Nihilus and Yoda duel and Nihilus holds Yoda off, and then Exar Kun and Revan beat Obi-Wan and Mace with mid difficulty. Yoda can't possibly face those three and win, especially with his lightsaber style being weak against multiple enemies.

Also funny little poem

Lol at Nihilus being a planet buster.

lol at the Jedi team winning.

@106me: Who said the Jedi team can win?

Ha ha, yeah I did too when I saw that people thought the Jedi team actually stood a chance.

A handful. Does that include you?

@106me: No it does not, unless Yoda manages to single out Nihilus and blitz him without any idea of who he is in the first few seconds of the fight.

Nihilus is not soloing but he could certainly kill Obi-Wan Kenobi, if not Mace Windu as well.

I struggle to see Yoda defending himself from Exar Kun's Force lightning, when JA!Luke was incapable of countering at all, despite having attempted every single defensive measure he knew.

Revan would defeat Kenobi or Windu as well, his Force strength is too much for either.

Yoda can't carry his fellow Jedi High Council members.

Throughout the prequel trilogy and the events surrounding it, Darth Sidious does not exhibit anything near the level of hubris that he depicts in the original trilogy. Though he's not averse to using himself as bait or putting his own life on the line for one of his schemes, for the most part, he seems rather rational and calculating; most of his 'defeats' -- few they were -- were based on the ineptitude or arrogance of his underlings rather than he himself. Consider that even after rending Yoda unconscious, Palpatine reconsiders dueling Yoda, a moment he supposedly had "waited a long time for", based on his assessment of Yoda's power.

So, personally, I come to one of two conclusions:

a.) Palpatine orchestrated and staged the events of his duel with Mace Windu and the Jedi companions.

b.) Palpatine was simply unable to overpower Mace Windu with a lightsaber in a prolonged duel due to the nature of Vaapad and shatterpoint detection.

'A' is possible in that the Dark Lord is certainly capable of such a feat, since the man managed to worm his way into effective domination of the galaxy -- orchestrating a war and multiple crises for over a decade without Masters Yoda and Windu being any the wiser. Essentially, he is clever enough to pull it off. However, there is no canon evidence supporting it. Ergo, I conclude that 'B' is the correct option.

Whether Palpatine could have overpowered Mace at all at that point is purely speculative. However, your point might have some merit, as Palpatine -- despite being unarmed and in an inferior position -- was able to nearly kill Mace with Force lightning through sheer force, as he was the one who was bearing the brunt of the lightning's weakness. Lucas himself said that when Sidious ended the futile assault, he wasn't weakened by it. Whereas I can't say the same for Mace.

I will also say that, like Sidious, Exar seems to outmatch Mace in the Force and that Sidious's lightning was repulsed only when Mace was immersed in Vaapad -- which according to the novelization, takes a bit of time. Should Kun pull off an amulet blast or whatnot before such an event, I could see him defeating Mace with the Force.

Then again, Palpatine and Kun are two different animals. And Exar Kun is extremely arrogant himself.

@106me:

He didn't destroy the entire planet itself with TK, but destroyed the surface of it.

Nihilus never destroyed the surface of the planet with telekinesis? I'm not sure why TK is being mentioned at all since it really isn't relevant to that showing in any way.

Also, Visas' poetic lauding clearly isn't accurate. If it was (that Nihilus killed all life on the planet by speaking), then Nihilus would've done the same to Telos in KotOR II and the various other worlds he was mentioned to have destroyed. But he didn't. Quite the contrary, in fact:

"In the meantime, Darth Nihilus led his Sith forces from his flagship, the Ravager, drawing more and more power from worlds that he blasted into ruin."

Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

This quote reveals his method of annihilating worlds - he destroys the worlds with his capital ship's bombardment (confirmed by the quote above), then he feeds on the death caused (quotes from both Kreia and Visas, including the ones you posted, confirm the latter).

This is certainly the more sensible option to take when considering Nihilus' obliteration of Katarr and other worlds. If he was really capable of killing everybody on Katarr from the start, why would he need to blast future worlds into ruin when he could just continue his spree (especially with the worlds housing increasingly less collective Force power, which would make it easier)? And if he was capable of speaking to kill worlds, why didn't he do so to Telos? Whether or not he was aware of the fact that there were or weren't Jedi on the planet is irrelevant because Tobin mentions that even if there aren't Jedi, Nihilus would still feed on the planet to gain what little sustenance he could (not to mention that KotOR II, among other sources, stresses that all life is touched by the Force). So why didn't he? Because he wasn't capable of blasting it into ruin yet. Because the Republic navy was resisting and the Ravager was forced to engage in delaying space battles instead of commencing orbital bombardment.

You can certainly argue that upon initial release of the game, the notion that Nihilus simply killed everything on the world with the Force was a genuine possibility, if only because of the lack of context on the affair. But as future sources came out, it seemed less and less likely. Unseen, Unheard still suggests that Nihilus used the Force to kill everything on the world, but if you pay attention to the panels, you'll notice flames, billowing smoke, collapsing buildings, etc. - none of which are caused by Drain, Nihilus' variant or otherwise. That lends credence to the notion that Nihilus used the Ravager to bombard the planet first and then fed off the suffering and death, especially since it was clearly necessary for him to do so to future worlds. Visas seems to be the only source implying that Nihilus used the Force to kill everything on the world, but even then, it's possible to interpret her words in the way I suggested, and despite being the only survivor, the fact that she was virtually brainwashed by Nihilus means she might not even be the most reliable source. Objective, third-person sources that were released afterwards only state that the world was destroyed and don't specify how it was done, other than The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia which reveals that Nihilus draws power from worlds after blasting them with his capital ship.

Jedi could speedblitz Nihilus so i'll go Team 2

Yoda's the only one who has the potential to speedblitz Nihilus, but the other Jedi should still outduel him handily.

Jedi Team.

Dark Reaper could drain entire planets too, but not force wounds, and Anakin, Ulic and others had resistance to it.
Nihilus also never drained anyone more powerful than him, i.e. Yoda.

BUT WAIT - NIHILUS DRAIN CANNOT BE BLOCKED AND HE BUSTS PLANETS AND SOLOS THE ONES.

gg

I dont know much about KOTOR characters but from the stuff that i read online i think that Nihilus could in fact solo it.I read that only the Exile was immune to his force drain (as well as the other wounds in the force),and that he did drain an entire planet with no difficulty whatsoever.Yoda is really powerful but against a freak of nature like Nihilus i dont see how he will react.

Is Nihilus even good with a light-saber?

Team 1

@kigretheviking: Just for the heads up, tag my new profile @wollfmyth. This one is a bit out of comission :/

On topic, tho: Team 1.

Any Sith makes Kenobi look childish, or holds off/beats Mace. And Yoda can beat any Sith, but they'd give him a fight.

@wollfmyth209: Okay. No problem.

Eww Star Wars fanboys

@shootingnova: Well I brought up TK because various sources talk about how the planet was "destroyed" and the surface was in "ruins." Not to mention that everything on the surface was collapsing without any visible traces of blaster fire.

So that one quote from the encyclopedia explains that it was fire from the Ravager instead. Interesting.

@death-killer: As I see it the fight comes down to whether or not Kun would decide to brawl with lightsabers or attack with the force. A Mace Windu who gives fully into Vaapad would certainly beat Exar Kun in a lightsaber duel and Kun may be too arrogant to believe he needs to use his force powers against Mace from the start, as he is one of the best duelists out there and is perfectly aware of this. That being said, if he uses his force powers from the start, I think Mace would have extreme difficulty beating him because of the large gap in both knowledge of force techniques (remember, a large number of force techniques of the old sith were stated to be lost when Kun died so it is quite possible that he knows Sith Sorceries Mace hasn't even heard of) and power in the force.

Also the fight takes place on Korriban, which is a rather large advantage for the sith, especially those more skilled in sorcerey (like Kun) that can tap into the dark side power that infests that place.

Ancient Sith crush. Yoda is the only one who stands a chance tbh

Team 2