Anakin vs Vader (Dueling and Force)

Round 1, who was a better lightsaber duelist?

Round 2, who is versatile force power?

Round 3, who is more powerful in raw force power?

This is not a Vader fighting Anakin, but feats and accolades of who was better in the following ways overall. Discussion of feats rather than who would beat who.

Round 1 - Anakin

Round 2 - Anakin

Round 3 - Vader

Round 1: Vader

Round 2: Vader

Round 3: Unsure

@tparks: Im curious why you think Vader for three, but more for why Anakin two?

1. Roughly even
2. Vader
3. Vader

I haven't watched the entirety of CW yet, so I've probably missed some better Anakin stuff.

Regardless of what everyone here is going to come in and yell at me about Light Saber styles and Djem So, and Form whatever, I see Anakin as much more of a finesse fighter then Vader. Anakin, in both dueling and force powers, was much more versatile.

Vader rarely used versatility, he was a Sith tank. He just overpowered people, but wasn't all about flipping around, or doing anything real flashy. I'm sure the SW people on here will yell at me about this too, but that's what I see.

Vader is currently putting out some nice power levels in the new Marvel stuff too.

Gallery

Anakin's a better fighter IMO though.

Considering that Vader retooled himself, I'd say the gap between him and Anakin isn't vast. Vader also makes use of Dun Moch like in is fight with Luke. Vader at his peak really only lacks speed and agility in comparison to his fully human body IMO.

Vader is most definitely more versatile. He applied the via distraction rather than just outright overpowering people, which he also does too.

Not sure about straight up raw power.

@tparks said:

@sirfizzwhizz said:

@tparks: Im curious why you think Vader for three, but more for why Anakin two?

I haven't watched the entirety of CW yet, so I've probably missed some better Anakin stuff.

Regardless of what everyone here is going to come in and yell at me about Light Saber styles and Djem So, and Form whatever, I see Anakin as much more of a finesse fighter then Vader. Anakin, in both dueling and force powers, was much more versatile.

Vader rarely used versatility, he was a Sith tank. He just overpowered people, but wasn't all about flipping around, or doing anything real flashy. I'm sure the SW people on here will yell at me about this too, but that's what I see.

Vader is currently putting out some nice power levels in the new Marvel stuff too.

Gallery

Anakin's a better fighter IMO though.

I'm not really a gigantic fan of Anakin in the prequels and I'm definitely having trouble making it through the show but what has Anakin done on the versatility side?

@darthaznable: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/anakin-skywalker-respect-thread-1632826/

That respect thread can show a lot more then I could say.

Besides that though, even if we just look at the movies, Anakin was more versatile with his force powers. Vader really barely even used them in any of his fights with Luke, and assuming we're only talking canon feats, then Anakin clearly is more versatile IMO. That could change, but as of right now in the Marvel stuff, I would argue that Anakin is still more versatile then what we've seen Vader do in the new comics.

You overestimate our aggression, my friend.

@tparks: Regardless of what everyone here is going to come in and yell at me about Light Saber styles and Djem So, and Form whatever, I see Anakin as much more of a finesse fighter then Vader. Anakin, in both dueling and force powers, was much more versatile.

Anakin doesn't finesse anything. Everything about him was bulling his way through opponents by repeatedly slamming and pushing his lightsaber into theirs, trying to break through their defenses, using his force powers to choke or slam them into walls.

Vader rarely used versatility, he was a Sith tank. He just overpowered people, but wasn't all about flipping around, or doing anything real flashy. I'm sure the SW people on here will yell at me about this too, but that's what I see.

Using telepathy, absorbing and deflecting blaster bolts, and crushing organs with TK are things Anakin has never done until he became Vader.

@night4345: Vader crushed organs? like what?

@tparks: He was able to use the force to throw random objects at Luke n conjunction with his dueling. Didn't really need to gesture to move them or anything. Dun Moch isn't a force power as far as I know, but Vader was able to use it to cause emotional distraught in Luke when put the fight in Vader's favor.

I don't include you in this grouping. You're counters that make me feel like an idiot are always well thought out, entertaining, and I enjoy reading them. :D

Also, I was being half-sarcastic when I said that. Most of you Star Wars nut jobs are good people.

Anakin is not anywhere near as versatile as Vader.

@sirfizzwhizz: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/dccomicsrule2011/blog/a-darth-vader-eu-tourney-respect-thread/93314/

He crushed the heart of some lizard Jedi he interrogated.

If its canon versions:

1. Anakin
2. I would assume Vader but not sure if he has displayed much yet. He's only fought fodder, Obi-wan, and Luke in canon from what I have read and seen. Based on showings I would assume Anakin has a lot more but I don't see why Anakins more experienced and apparently powerful self couldn't do the things he did and more. Obviously Vader is lacking in showings though. At the very least Vader should be a match for Anakin in this department just based on basic logic.
3. Vader since its already been confirmed and his feats are just better

If its legends from what I know (I could be wrong):

1. Anakin
2. Vader
3. Pretty even depending on Anakins emotions. To my knowledge Anakin has better high end feats but Vader is more consistent. Anakin probably takes it at his peak I would assume.

@darthaznable: I still love that fight so much. I don't care how dated it is at this point. While that does show some versatility, and feats like this..

...show some nifty versatility also, I still think Anakin is more versatile of a combatant in both dueling and force powers. While I agree Vader can be versatile, as I'm even supplying scans to support your argument, I see this as more of an exception to him as a combatant, instead of the norm.

@tparks: SW has always had great sword choreography. That scan is pretty sick but I'm not buying any of Vader's ongoing until the trade comes out. Anakin on the force side has only used shoves and the typical amping of his physicals. Vader makes use of shoves, chokes, saber throws, telepathy to scare people, and more. Props to @dccomicsrule2011 for his respect thread that I just found. lol

In terms of dueling Vader isn't far off either. He's completely retooled himself and has combined various forms to make up for his lack of maneuverability.

What are you saying exactly? Are you saying Vader isn't tactical as a combatant? He hasn't had a lot of fights in canon and if we comparing how they fight in literally 90% of there battles I don't think they fight much differently from what I have seen. Vader seems more clam and collected as a combatant from what I have seen and generally just smarter. The only time he's really made a tactical error in combat was when he mentioned Leia against Luke which caused Luke to get enraged (even than getting in your opponents head isn't a bad thing). IN other fights Vader used the environment, he's used clones to protect himself, he redirected missiles at a group of droids in darth vader #2, and he also identified a spy on the empire (not a combat tactical feat granted but still).

Anakin has made more mistakes based on the movies IMO. There was was his duel with Obi-wan (yes they were both hindered but this doesn't change the tactical error, and as I said Vader seems to have better self control so emotional control is something I look at when I think of tactics) where Obi-wan due to the high ground. I am sure if I looked through some episodes of the clone wars I can find other examples of Anakins emotions hindering him or costing him in some way (just as I am sure you can find examples of them amping and helping him).

I'm not saying Anakin is an idiot for the record I just don't think he is smarter than Vader if that is what your saying. Now that I read the thread though I think @darthaznable brought some decent points about Vader using saber throws, and the environment. Not sure how that compares to Anakin in the clone wars TV show. Also going through the darth vader respect thread according to the empire strikes back novel apparently Vader was manipulating the winds on Baspin, thats not something Anakin has done to my knowledge:

Another large piece of machinery glanced off Luke’s body and crashed out the large window, letting in the screaming wind. Suddenly everything in the room was blown about, and the fierce wind lashed Luke’s body and filled the room with a bansheelike howl. And in the very center of the room, standing still and triumphant, was Darth Vader.

“You are beaten,” the Dark Lord of the Sith gloated. “It is useless to resist. You will join me or you will join Obi-Wan in death!”

As Vader spoke these words, a final piece of heavy machinery soared through the air, striking the young Jedi and knocking him through the broken window. Everything became a great blur as the wind carried him, tossing and rolling, until he managed to grab hold of a beam with one hand. With the wind subsided a bit and his vision cleared, Luke realized that he was hanging from the gantry of the reactor shaft outside the control room.

He didn’t want to believe Vader, tried convincing himself that it was Vader who lied to him—but somehow he could

feel the truth in the Dark Lord’s words. But, if Darth Vader did speak the truth, why, he wondered, had Ben Kenobi lied to him?

Why?

His mind screamed louder than any wind the Dark Lord could ever summon against him.

The answers no longer seemed to matter.

His father.

With the calmness that Ben himself and Yoda, the Jedi Master, had taught him, Luke Skywalker made, perhaps, what might be his final decision of all. “Never,” Luke shouted as he stepped out into the empty abyss beneath him. For all its unperceived depth, Luke might have been falling to another galaxy.

Darth Vader moved to the end of the gantry to watch as Luke tumbled away. A strong wind began to blow, billowing Vader’s black cloak out behind him as he stood looking over the edge.

--Taken from The Empire Strikes Back

EDIT: If I misunderstood your point apologies.

@44orhsaj: Vader was manipulating the winds on Baspin, thats not something Anakin has done to my knowledge:

He's manipulated the sands of Tatooine to attack Dooku with a sand tornado.

Fair enough.

@darthaznable: @44orhsaj:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/anakin-skywalker-respect-thread-updated-1639459/

Anakin has used TK to throw things, choke, manipulate sands of tatoooine, hurl Jedi into his saber, throw his saber, and disarm foes. He also used Beast Language, Force Scream, Farsight, Mecha-Deru/Technometry. Jedi Mind Trick, Resistance to Force Drain technique, and even achieved Oneness.

So Anakin is not far behind in versatile Force powers.

You guys do realize that every Force power Anakin knows, Vader knows too, right? They're the same person, Vader hasn't got memory loss.

Which is true lol, but the argument is does Vader use those Force Abilities at all even though he knows them.

Anyway whats your thoughts on 1 and 3?

@sirfizzwhizz: Not sure exactly.

@sirfizzwhizz: Well Vader used force scream at the end of episode 3. It was the first thing he did. He doesn't use mind tricks according to darth vader #1 because that is not the way of the Sith apparently (we also saw various examples of him torturing people with the force to find a girl in darth vader #3). He's never encountered a drain user so he has no use for that ability, and IIRC didn't he achieve oneness when he killed Palpatine? Wasn't that the whole point? Beast trick falls in the same category as mind trick IMO but regardless he has used TP to talk to Luke and IIRC didn't he use it to influence Lukes emotions in ESB? As for techonpathy he did that recently when he had to:

Seems like in canon there isn't much of a difference in how they use there powers except Vader likes to torture people instead of mind tricks I guess.

@44orhsaj: Vader never achieved oneness, he became a force ghost, thaw not nearly he same thing. Oneness is beings one with the force while alive and having Grandmastwr Luke level abilities. Something Anakin was able to achieve twice IIRC, and Vader never could in his sad state.

@44orhsaj: Your post has some valid points andI don't mean to get distracted but...

DOE!

Anybody who's down with the turtles is alright in my book bro. *reaches out for hug*

@okayalright_44:

@tparks: :D

Get a room you two.

Round 1: Vader since he's more experienced.

Round 2: Anakin due to not having the suit. He could have learned Force Lightning as well if he didn't get messed up.

Round 3: Vader seems to have more raw power, but Anakin had the greater potential as Palpatine stated to Yoda.

Anakin achieved oneses only once in canon when on Mortis though? Wasn't the other time a legends feat? Regardless Anakin can't just achieve oneness whenever he wants so it doesn't really make him more versatile.

@okayalright_44 LOL thanks!

@44orhsaj: he did not achieve Oneness on Mortis, he would been glowing I think, but he was pushed into using his abilities to the fullest through emotion. So maybe it could been seen as that. The other time was Legends in a battle when he was thinking about his mother.

Regardless it does not make him more versatile, but to me shows Vader is not more powerful as no matter what prions he felt he could never achieve the same, thus Vader is weaker with limits.

1. Vader because he can think clear

2. Anakin

3. Anakin

I'd change #3 with Vader though.

OK so Anakin has never achieved oneness in canon? If so I stand by Vader being more powerful. Even if Anakin achieving oneness is canon how many times has he done it? Like once or twice? He can't just do it whenever he wants....I don't think its fair to say Anakin is more powerful than Vader just because he went into oneness. By that logic Anakin would be more powerful than Yoda or Sidious. I agree Anakin has more potential but it seems like Vader has tapped into most of his potential unlike Anakin which is probably why he is more powerful.

Nah Anakin has better feats, he can amp his physical attributes much higher than Vader. He he has jumped like 200 ft or more before and shown of great agility

Anakin, Vader, Anakin.

1. Anakin. Outright stated to be one of the best duelists in the galaxy. Managed to outduel Dooku, even, who SPECIALIZES in dueling.

2. Vader. More knowledge of the Force, to compensate for his impairments. He's been a master for years.

3. Anakin again. Pretty sure that before the severing of his extremities, he was going to have much more raw power than Sidious. Afterwards, his strength dropped to a fraction of that. While still impressive (he was on equal footing with a fully trained Luke in ROTJ), it's nowhere near his prime.

No it wasn't, it was after he witnessed the death of someone whom reminded him of his mother, while in the midst of large scale battle and reached into Force to enter a state of Oneness, for that moment only, to defeat the CIS militia. He wasn't just casually thinking of his mother to tap into to oneness or else he would've done so against the Sand people in AoTC. His best feat out in Oneness wasn't even comparable to Luke (became immovable to a Black Hole) or Jacen (became the most powerful Jedi and defeating a deity). All he did was become unstoppable while bulldozing a droid army and evading fire from likely 100's; that's a feat he could have probably accomplished while not in Oneness tbh., but as @44orhsaj stated, Oneness is not an ability Anakin can just casually access and neither can Jedi more powerful than him. It's clearly circumstantial. I gave you the quotes from the novel (Jedi Trial) so I would know this.

Ben Skywalker, who's not as powerful as Vader by feats and accolades, also achieved a state of Oneness.

@elderskaar: Okay. :-D

@okayalright_44: I'm pretty sure what I sad was not wrong for all that post. He was thinking of his mother. Someone reminded him of his mother, he was thinking of her. I was not going into total detail nor trying to state he he can do it on command, just that he had the raw power to tap it.

Tie

Vader

Vader

@sirfizzwhizz: Well I agree then.

Even or leaning toward Anakin slightly

Vader

Vader

How is round one a tie? Vader hasn't faced anyone as skillful as Dooku in canon yet where as Anakin has matched him in the clone wars and handily beat Dooku in revenge of the sith...I agree with the other rounds.