VS
Location
Team 1 takes this.
Why team 1
@taylan93: Without accounting for PIS/CIS, Anakin or Dooku could beat either Obi-Wan or Mace. Sidious is practically even with Yoda if this is RotS Sidious.
@shootingnova: What majority would Anakin take over Mace?
@comicstooge: A solid one. 7-8/10.
could go either way
????
Obi wan > Anakin
Mace Windu > Dooku
You're new on ComicVine, aren't you?
Anyways, in regards to the duel, the match ups will likely be:
Yoda VS Sidious - they are the most powerful members of their team and will thus be drawn to one another automatically. That, and they are pretty much the only members of their team that could actually pose a threat to one another. And this battle is a draw for the most part.
Mace VS Dooku - These two are rivals and will thus certainly face each other. In that case, Dooku wins a slight or solid majority. He's just as good a duelist, if not superior marginally, has greater combative speed and has greater power in the Force. His telekinesis outstrips Windu and he abuses more than Mace to begin with. Dooku should win a fair majority, around 7/10.
Anakin VS Obi-Wan - They are also somewhat rivals, but also close friends and know each other well so they'd be going against one another in the majority of instances. Unless Anakin is emotionally hindered as he was when he dueled Kenobi on Mustafar, then Obi-Wan losses every time. Both know each other's forms well enough to counter one another in a strict duel, but Anakin has superior showings against the likes of Ventress and Dooku whom are common foes for the two. And Anakin is also vastly stronger, decently faster and his telekinesis blows Kenobi out of the water. He could, if he abuses it enough, even ragdoll Kenobi. Anakin 10/10.
In the situation that the match ups go differently, either Dooku or Anakin are fast and skilled enough to briefly contend with Sidious, while Yoda dispatches Mace or Kenobi, so that still leaves Team 1 with an edge. Anakin can beat Mace and Dooku would virtually stomp Kenobi due to being solidly a better duelist and has the power to ragdoll him.
So Team 1 wins nearly every time.
@wollfmyth209: I doubt see Anakin beating Obi-Wan a perfect 10/10 times. 8-9 maybe but 10/10? No
@darthaznable: Anakin would win 8/10 against Kenobi in a duel, but if you include Anakin's massive advantage in the Force then it is 10/10. Kenobi simply has no way to actually beat a non-hindered Anakin.
@darthaznable: Anakin would win 8/10 against Kenobi in a duel, but if you include Anakin's massive advantage in the Force then it is 10/10. Kenobi simply has no way to actually beat a non-hindered Anakin.
Eh. My Obi Wan fanboyism can't accept it. That and my hate for Anakin cloud my judgement. xD
@taylan93: Anakin was emotinally hindered and thus could not bring his full power to bare in a fight. And even while hindered, the fight was a complete stalemate until Kenobi got the high ground. A non-hindered Anakin Skywalker is superior to Kenobi. Just compare their duels with Dooku and Ventress. Kenobi always gets stomped or handily bested by Dooku, and fights evenly with Ventress. Anakin stalemates Dooku and always beats Ventress. There are circumstances in Anakin's duel with Kenobi on Mustafar. Even Nick Gillard, a coordinator in the Star Wars movies rates Kenobi as an 8 and Anakin as a 9. So Anakin>Kenobi.
Team two takes this. Obi-wan beat's Anakin, as has already been shown. Mace, using his unique version of Vapaad should be able to drop Dooku due to the fact that the more Dooku uses the Dark Side, the stronger Mace get's, and Sidious would draw or beat Yoda, if only because, while the light side might win in the long run... in the practical 'here and now' the dark side is just more powerful.
Obi-wan beat's Anakin, as has already been shown.
On flat ground in a forest?
Mace, using his unique version of Vapaad should be able to drop Dooku due to the fact that the more Dooku uses the Dark Side
Vaapad functions using internal power, not necessarily the opponents.
Sidious would draw or beat Yoda, if only because, while the light side might win in the long run... in the practical 'here and now' the dark side is just more powerful.
Well, no. Sidious would win more often than not because he's just better.
Anakin at the point of Invisible Hand is match and can beat Obi-Wan Kenobi,but with difficulties and time due to Obi-Wans Soresu technique. Count Dooku can win Mace Windu 6.5/10,but he'll be very tired,if not wounded,while Yoda could win Sidious 7/10 if we are talking about open plains of Aldeeran. Sidious won't be able to lean on his advantage in the Force nor his advantage in the physical strength and weight if the area is so open. It is clear that Team 1 wins.
@wollfmyth209 Unless Anakin is emotionally hindered as he was when he dueled Kenobi on Mustafar
Even if Anakin is emotionally hindered,battle takes place in open plains of Alderaan,there's no danger in the area Obi-Wan could exploit,like he did on Mustafar.Anakin wins either way.
@cis:
Good point.
Obi-wan beat's Anakin, as has already been shown.
On flat ground in a forest?
Mace, using his unique version of Vapaad should be able to drop Dooku due to the fact that the more Dooku uses the Dark Side
Vaapad functions using internal power, not necessarily the opponents.
Sidious would draw or beat Yoda, if only because, while the light side might win in the long run... in the practical 'here and now' the dark side is just more powerful.
Well, no. Sidious would win more often than not because he's just better.
To your first point, I say... good point. That being said, I don't see why the difference in terrain should make that much of a difference. Really it's that old student v master battle and could play out either way. If Anakin does win though... he'd be so tired that he wouldn't stand a chance against survivors from the other team.
Second point... Mace's version of Vapaad is unique. Vapaad in general is a frowned upon technique because it opens the user up too the the dark side. Mace's version especially so. It doesn't seem to be so much an internal technique as a transference of energy... and i'll point out that Mace fought Sidious and actually won. Why he's so lowballed on this site is beyond me.
Third point... I actually have more faith in Yoda than all that, but you are right. In a straight up duel... Sidious should win the majority. Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side.
To your first point, I say... good point. That being said, I don't see why the difference in terrain should make that much of a difference. Really it's that old student v master battle and could play out either way. If Anakin does win though... he'd be so tired that he wouldn't stand a chance against survivors from the other team.
If we want to get technical I'd bring up that it's "Anakin", not "Vader" in the OP, so he'd be without his emotional hindrances. Even with them, he was shifting the bones in Obi-Wan's forearms with the strength of his strikes and came close to killing him at one point during the duel; he was winning. Without a high ground to fall back on Kenobi would lose, he's the inferior fighter.
Second point... Mace's version of Vapaad is unique. Vapaad in general is a frowned upon technique because it opens the user up too the the dark side. Mace's version especially so.
It does indeed, and that's because Vaapad is a variation of Juyo; a form that relies on the most volatile emotions such as anger and hatred to function well. The difference with Vaapad is that the user takes that inner darkness and those volatile emotions, "accepts" them, and channels them to be used for the light side instead of the dark. Essentially using the dark side without succumbing to it in the process.
And that's what Mace is always doing, in every fight.
It doesn't seem to be so much an internal technique as a transference of energy...
Surely it's an internal technique. Where do you think Mace gets his Force energy from, his opponent? Grievous isn't even Force sensitive, so you surely aren't going to tell me that Mace fought him without bolstering himself with the Force? (this isn't referring to the Sidious fight for now)
and i'll point out that Mace fought Sidious and actually won. Why he's so lowballed on this site is beyond me.
He did, and that's because he had an unnatural amount of darkness within himself to draw upon, and he also fed off of Sidious in that encounter. He was amped beyond what he'd usually be capable of; but it's a good showing of raw skill.
That is.. if you don't subscribe to the theory that Sidious threw the fight, which is easily arguable and the logical answer. Mace isn't the fighter Yoda is and all Vaapad did for him was bring his physical ability to Sidious' level; so it doesn't make sense that he'd do better than Yoda.
Third point... I actually have more faith in Yoda than all that, but you are right. In a straight up duel... Sidious should win the majority. Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side.
I'm just going by what the newest canon source has told me.
"Outmatched, Yoda retreats and waits to train a new champion to lead the fight against evil."
---
"Though Yoda is a tough combatant, the Emperor uses his Sith powers to release lightning bolts and hurl floating platforms at his foe. Ultimately the battle proves too much for Yoda, who barely escapes and is whisked away to safety by Senator Bail Organa."
---
"Yoda tries to stop Palpatine, the new Emperor, from taking control. He loses and barely escapes with his life."
--Ultimate Star Wars, pages 52-53, Yoda's entry
He did, and that's because he had an unnatural amount of darkness within himself to draw upon, and he also fed off of Sidious in that encounter. He was amped beyond what he'd usually be capable of; but it's a good showing of raw skill.
That is.. if you don't subscribe to the theory that Sidious threw the fight, which is easily arguable and the logical answer. Mace isn't the fighter Yoda is and all Vaapad did for him was bring his physical ability to Sidious' level; so it doesn't make sense that he'd do better than Yoda.
I believe in the theory that Sidious threw the fight. Everything lined up well with his plan. And, as you said, it doesn't make sense that Mace would do better than Yoda, under any circumstances.
Well, now that you cite the source of the movie that I clearly haven't seen, I must am now swayed in my thoughts *clear sarcasm*
And this is why I never debate Mace vs Sidious. The same unsupported claims over and over again; just because people like Mace doesn't make it true that he is superior to Sidious. If you know anything about Sidious, Mace, or Yoda, then you know that it makes no sense.
Team 1. Anakin>Kenobi. Anakin>Windu. Dooku>Kenobi. Dooku>Windu. Yoda>>>Kenobi. Yoda>Windu. Sidious can beat Anakin and Dooku but vs Yoda is an even split.
If they pair up properly, then team two should win. Obi-Wan holds off Anakin while Mace and Dooku duke (see what I did there?) it out. Once Mace wins, he joins Obi-Wan to defeat Anakin. Palpatine would most likely defeat Yoda in a prolonged duel assuming Yoda doesn't have anywhere to run. If he doesn't, though, Obi-Wan (non-factor) and Mace would join him to finish Yoda off.
obi wan is a weak link in this fight ...
dooku can just ragdoll him with the force (thus avoiding prolonged lightsaber combat) ...
anakin can also beat obi wan but it would probably take him a bit more time ...
yoda holds sidious at bay long enough to buy one of the other members of his team enough time to dispatch obi wan ...
and either dooku or anakin can hold their own against windu and are cabable to beat him
(between them it is too close to call , any of them can win the duel with the other at any given day ,
the point is it won´t be quick , it would be a prolonged and exhausting duels)
in any case obi wan is going down first no matter what , so it would be 3v2 fight and sidious can´t beat yoda fast enough to avoid this scenario ...
after obi wan is out of the picture anakin and dooku would team up against mace and beat him ...
in this case sidious would be facing 3-1 or 2.5-1 situation (in case either anakin or dooku is already injured or exhasted) and team 1 takes it ...
however if mace would win his 1v1 duel before he is forced to fight 2-1 i can see team 2 taking it as well ...
there are just too many variables and possibilities but since obi wan is on team 2 i´m gonna say team 1 should take the very slight majority (5.5-6/10)
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